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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Feb 4, 2019 10:05:42 GMT
Hello BSN, Recently I've started to play Civilization VI again after a long hiatus, but alas - no thread here on the board?! (I hope I didn't miss it, I just found Civ V.) As there's a new expansion pack due in the end of February, I figured it's as good a time as any to start a new thread. My history with Civ started a long while back; II was the first one I played, albeit not in a very serious way as I had no idea how to do things. I ended up cheating a lot (I'm not proud of it!) but it was still fun. My goal in any match was to build cities until the game ran out ouf nation-specific names. I missed III but played IV in a very obsessive way. Unfortunately, I never got to V which is said to be the best of all (or isn't it? I wouldn't know). Now, I am pretty obsessed with VI although I've been hearing a lot of mixed reviews. My review of the game would look a bit like this:
Things I absolutely love about it: - Sean Bean (seriously, I love his voice and the way he's narrating - and finally, he's part of a project in which he definitely won't die)
- end of stacking (I'm aware that they cancelled that in V already, but since I never played it, it was a great new feature for me)
- city construction (city districts, mostly)
- soundtrack (I'm listening to it a lot at work as it's just perfect for concentrating)
- Rise & Fall expansion (the new civilizations in particular - Scotland and Korea are both big favorites of mine)
Things I'm not particularly fond of: - behaviour of certain AIs (it's gotten a bit better since the last expansion pack, but some leaders are still prone to make extremely stupid decisions)
- spreading religion (I hardly ever aim for religious victory as it just becomes sooooo tedious in the end)
- active unit-hopping (in a combat, it's still super random which unit will be active next - this is something that's been annoying the hell of me since the start - there isn't a new patch though, is there?)
- there's just no getting along with certain civilizations, which annoys me - especially Cleopatra no matter what you do, she mostly hates you.
But I'm curious to know what you guys are thinking about it. Will you get the new expansion pack? Any other thoughts?
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Feb 5, 2019 8:22:42 GMT
Too much micro-managements (districts and cards), cartoonish leaders, units and buildings (compared to Civ III & V), bad AI (aggressiveness, weak alliance, etc.), religion functioning too weird (compared to Civ 4 and 5), also all the map covered with huge wonders and structures... too much stuff done wrong. Also the equality of man/woman leaders without considering their actual influence and greatness is annoying (like not every female leader was as powerful as Elizabeth or Catherine). Indeed some civs are done right like China, England, Greece, Persia (massive improvement compared with the one in Civ 5!), America and Rome. But for example Germany with Frederick Barbarossa? Nah.
I prefer to play Civilization III: Conquests tbh. But I have to admit the war/battles are better than Civ 3 or 4 (but not better than 5).
This expansion looks like 'Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword' 's clone.
It seems to have gone too extreme with global warming, unlike Civ 3 that did it right. So that's another negative to consider not playing this game.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 5, 2019 10:45:31 GMT
"V" the best of all? I have very strong feelings about that statement. I consider "IV" the best. The only good thing "V" had was getting rid of doomstacks.
I haven't played "VI" due to my strong feelings and a general disappointment with the remake of "Alpha Centauri", where I only did 1 playthrough. Normally I'd pig out on anything civ-like. So I was considering "VI" occasionally when it went on sale, but I wasn't too confident I might like it.
The last turn-based civ-like strategy games I played were from the "Endless" franchise. Endless Legend was quite good. I gather there are some similarities between the two regarding city development?
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Post by Ieldra on Feb 6, 2019 13:26:47 GMT
I haven't played "VI" due to my strong feelings and a general disappointment with the remake of "Alpha Centauri", where I only did 1 playthrough. They remade Alpha Centauri? That's the first time I heard that. Which game is it?
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 6, 2019 13:39:55 GMT
I haven't played "VI" due to my strong feelings and a general disappointment with the remake of "Alpha Centauri", where I only did 1 playthrough. They remade Alpha Centauri? That's the first time I heard that. Which game is it?
Well is more spiritual successor Civilisation : Beyon Earth. You settle alien planet with different factions. Same setting basically like SMAC
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Post by Ieldra on Feb 6, 2019 13:45:16 GMT
They remade Alpha Centauri? That's the first time I heard that. Which game is it?
Well is more spiritual successor Civilisation : Beyon Earth. You settle alien planet with different factions. Same setting basically like SMAC Ah, that....well, I have it and as a spiritual successor it failed for me.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 6, 2019 13:50:56 GMT
Well is more spiritual successor Civilisation : Beyon Earth. You settle alien planet with different factions. Same setting basically like SMAC Ah, that....well, I have it and as a spiritual successor it failed for me. Initially I thought it wasnt so bad. But then there never had been a Civ game I only played once but this was it.
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Feb 7, 2019 9:01:46 GMT
Too much micro-managements (districts and cards), cartoonish leaders, units and buildings (compared to Civ III & V), bad AI (aggressiveness, weak alliance, etc.), religion functioning too weird (compared to Civ 4 and 5), also all the map covered with huge wonders and structures... too much stuff done wrong. Also the equality of man/woman leaders without considering their actual influence and greatness is annoying (like not every female leader was as powerful as Elizabeth or Catherine). Indeed some civs are done right like China, England, Greece, Persia (massive improvement compared with the one in Civ 5!), America and Rome. But for example Germany with Frederick Barbarossa? Nah. I prefer to play Civilization III: Conquests tbh. But I have to admit the war/battles are better than Civ 3 or 4 (but not better than 5). This expansion looks like 'Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword' 's clone. It seems to have gone too extreme with global warming, unlike Civ 3 that did it right. So that's another negative to consider not playing this game. Thanks for your comment!
I never played Civ III, so I can't really compare anything - the one thing I agree on is the AI. It shows especially on higher difficulties when some civilizations seem to lack the ability to act in a flexible and adaptive way. They try to do their thing, even if the circumstances and/or map don't allow that. Still, I have the feeling it has gotten better in the recent patches. (On the other hand, just recently I played a game with Norway in it. Harald hated me because I didn't have a navy, denounced me and went to war - the only thing he must have forgotten was the fact that none of my cities were anywhere near the coast [pangea map] and that he was the one without any serious land units. )
As for micro-management, I had the same impression in the beginning. A city has limited space so I was like "WTF, where do I put everything?" But I think that's exactly the point: the key is NOT to put all districts or wonders everywhere. Now I just selectively choose a few districts that are beneficial for the victory I'm working on and that works quite well. Of course that means that more cities are needed, but I find that to be manageable. In earlier civ games, I felt like after a certain era it didn't make sense any longer to place new cities cause they could never catch up, but now I think you can push cities more easily into the direction you need them to, even if you found them quite late.
As for cards: I don't change cards very often simply because I don't feel it's necessary, I agree that it would be tedious to change them every second round.
In terms of the cartoonish characters: I like them. I really do. I like how the developers put a lot of work into their specific agendas, and also in how they look, move and talk. (Why can a strategy game do that but an RPG gives you an Asari Clone Army?!) As for the male/female leader ratio: I don't care about that too much. I enjoy the variety of playable characters and civilizations and I feel it's a good thing that they mix things up a bit and don't stick to "usual" Civ-leaders all the time. I am also psyched about the 8 new civilizations coming along in the expansion, especially Canada (finally you can do something with tundra areas), Eleanore of Aquitaine (who can be chosen as leader for France or England, a first in the franchise) and also the Maori as they seem to be a very creative civ.
Also yay, climate change! (Not for the real one, obviously, just for the game thing ) - I imagine this to be quite interesting and I can't wait to put efforts into creating a green sustainable economy with my buddy Gorgo at my side. Also dimplomatic victory will be a challenge. I'm not a good dimplomat I fear, we'll see how that goes.
"V" the best of all? I have very strong feelings about that statement. I consider "IV" the best. The only good thing "V" had was getting rid of doomstacks. I haven't played "VI" due to my strong feelings and a general disappointment with the remake of "Alpha Centauri", where I only did 1 playthrough. Normally I'd pig out on anything civ-like. So I was considering "VI" occasionally when it went on sale, but I wasn't too confident I might like it. The last turn-based civ-like strategy games I played were from the "Endless" franchise. Endless Legend was quite good. I gather there are some similarities between the two regarding city development? Civ V being the best is just what I gathered from various people, I never played it so I wouldn't know. Also, I have never heard of "Endless" franchise.
I'm curious: what is it you think you wouldn't like about VI?
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Feb 7, 2019 9:04:14 GMT
Oh and fun fact, in the new expansion pack, a new agenda called "Flat Earther" will be added. A leader with that trait "wants to block humankind from circumnavigating the globe or going into space". (Source)Tbh, I don't know if that makes me laugh or cry.
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Post by Marduk on Feb 7, 2019 9:18:23 GMT
I started Civilization since the 3rd one i think. with Civ 6 if i recall i liked the amount of content but a certain mechanic or two kinda magnified the AI as an issue for me sadly. still fun but not that much replay value so at least the expansions give me a good reason to play it again.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 7, 2019 9:50:42 GMT
...
"V" the best of all? I have very strong feelings about that statement. I consider "IV" the best. The only good thing "V" had was getting rid of doomstacks. I haven't played "VI" due to my strong feelings and a general disappointment with the remake of "Alpha Centauri", where I only did 1 playthrough. Normally I'd pig out on anything civ-like. So I was considering "VI" occasionally when it went on sale, but I wasn't too confident I might like it. The last turn-based civ-like strategy games I played were from the "Endless" franchise. Endless Legend was quite good. I gather there are some similarities between the two regarding city development? Civ V being the best is just what I gathered from various people, I never played it so I wouldn't know. Also, I have never heard of "Endless" franchise.
I'm curious: what is it you think you wouldn't like about VI?
Endless Space and Endless Legends are turn based strategy games from Aplitude a French developer. As expected from French games they have some focus on art design and that doesn't hurt the games. Their unique selling point is maybe the genuine lore crafted around the "Endless". Basically it's an alternative settting with humans and aliens in a galactic context. Space starts at the space age. Legends plays out on Earth up until the space age. Mechanic-wise they are not so different to other games from the genre, but they have a couple things they do differently: e.g. a district system in Endless Legend where you build a city larger and larger using map tiles with specialised districts. I hear "on map building" is now a thing too in Civ?
The games are kinda similar to Civ and Master of Orion (with no game ever having reached MoO's ship customisation and combat - 3D graphics got kinda in the way I guess) and related games. "4x" was a term coined for them once.
And then there is FlybyNo, one of the composers of the Franchise. If you have time I can only recommend listening in to Endless Legends soundtrack - it's been a while I heard harps used for composition, but this guy can do it quite well.
----
What I might not like in Civ 6? Maybe UI? More stripped content (really missed the power graphs / their usefulness in V and Beyond Earth)? Quirky AI - they never were able to get it right. #Nuclear_Gandhi.
But it's on sale right now. How about you tell me what I miss? I've always enjoyed a good Civ game. Even played the board game. Usually along with 1.5 wine bottles.
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Feb 7, 2019 10:36:25 GMT
Their unique selling point is maybe the genuine lore crafted around the "Endless". Basically it's an alternative settting with humans and aliens in a galactic context. Space starts at the space age. Legends plays out on Earth up until the space age. Mechanic-wise they are not so different to other games from the genre, but they have a couple things they do differently: e.g. a district system in Endless Legend where you build a city larger and larger using map tiles with specialised districts. I hear "on map building" is now a thing too in Civ?
---- What I might not like in Civ 6? Maybe UI? More stripped content (really missed the power graphs / their usefulness in V and Beyond Earth)? Quirky AI - they never were able to get it right. #Nuclear_Gandhi. But it's on sale right now. How about you tell me what I miss? I've always enjoyed a good Civ game. Even played the board game. Usually along with 1.5 wine bottles.
Thanks for the summary, Kater! Both sound interesting for sure! As for districts: yes, that is a thing now in Civ VI. The bigger your city is, the more specialized districts you can build (e.g. Campus for Science, Theatare for Culturer, Holy Site for Religion etc). Each district takes up a tile, so it's crucial to plan which ones you want to get in which city, depending on the surrounding area and the kind of victory you're going for. While some think that a lot more micro-management is needed, I personally think it's a lot of fun to find good spots for your district (they get adjacency bonus for certain surrounding terrain tiles). I usually don't recommend games as I don't want to be the one responsible if people don't like my recommendations. Maybe it'll help you make a decision to watch some bits and pieces of gameplay on YouTube? It could give an insight about the new features, or you can see if the things you enjoyed in Civ IV or V are still present in VI. The fun of Civ for me has always been the multitude of options you have available, so that no two games are the same. I enjoy picking a civilization, developing a strategy that fits their unique abilities and try to implement that while overcoming obstacles and dealing with annoying neighbours. That experience is no different for me than it was in Civ IV, it's just newer, and a bit more shiny and for me also more challenging. The Rise & Fall expension pack added a few nice twists and turns, too. And of course, one shouldn't be afraid of failures because those will happen, especially on higher difficulties. (Did I mention that I got obliterated by Nubia once after not even 50 turns? Yes, that happened xD Nubia is awesome by the way. I love that Civ.)
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Feb 7, 2019 12:59:13 GMT
Well is more spiritual successor Civilisation : Beyon Earth. You settle alien planet with different factions. Same setting basically like SMAC Ah, that....well, I have it and as a spiritual successor it failed for me. Civ II/III fanatic spotted!
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Feb 7, 2019 13:09:42 GMT
And Civilization III-VI screenshots for reference. Civ III: Civ 4: Civ V: Civ VI:
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Post by Ieldra on Feb 7, 2019 14:25:15 GMT
Ah, that....well, I have it and as a spiritual successor it failed for me. Civ II/III fanatic spotted! Uh...I don't even recall Civ II/III. The main reasons Civ:BE didn't work for me is that (1) I couldn't get into the factions, and (2) the game doesn't give me enough info about what I can do.
If not for the whimsical style, Civ VI would be OK, too, but I can't stand the ruler pictures and animations.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 7, 2019 14:36:12 GMT
Civ II/III fanatic spotted! Uh...I don't even recall Civ II/III. The main reasons Civ:BE didn't work for me is that (1) I couldn't get into the factions, and (2) the game doesn't give me enough info about what I can do.
If not for the whimsical style, Civ VI would be OK, too, but I can't stand the ruler pictures and animations.
I cheesed airdrop in Civ iii close to exploit. Disbanded mech infantry on city tile yielded shields... It was the one where you could form armies - they still a doomstack. By the by: I played couple of 4x that allow country creation a bit like rolling a character for RPG. I kinda like that. I also like when tje little prominent people in the pixel empires have progression features. It should be a bit more than just XP levels. Maybe trait perks and that. How is that in Civ 6?
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Post by Ieldra on Feb 7, 2019 15:03:18 GMT
Uh...I don't even recall Civ II/III. The main reasons Civ:BE didn't work for me is that (1) I couldn't get into the factions, and (2) the game doesn't give me enough info about what I can do.
If not for the whimsical style, Civ VI would be OK, too, but I can't stand the ruler pictures and animations.
I cheesed airdrop in Civ iii close to exploit. Disbanded mech infantry on city tile yielded shields... It was the one where you could form armies - they still a doomstack. By the by: I played couple of 4x that allow country creation a bit like rolling a character for RPG. I kinda like that. I also like when tje little prominent people in the pixel empires have progression features. It should be a bit more than just XP levels. Maybe trait perks and that. How is that in Civ 6? As far as I know it's not possible to create custom civilizations in Civ VI, except with mods. You are limited to choosing rulers and countries which specific specials. You get special units and/or buildings as well as bonuses to certain attributes, all of which are unlocked at different times depending on where in the tech tree they are designed to work. Units get trait perks as they gain levels, you usually get a choice between two. You can also upgrade your governors along two paths using a similar mechanic. Governor levels are unlocked by certain technologies and wonders and can be applied to recruit a new governor (you're limited to 7) or to upgrade an existing one.
BTW, thanks for reminding me of the Endless universe. I have both Endless Space (2) and Endless Legends.... and the latter is definitely underplayed. Which needs to change.
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Feb 7, 2019 15:26:10 GMT
If not for the whimsical style, Civ VI would be OK, too, but I can't stand the ruler pictures and animations.
I get that. It's a fairly different and quite specific direction that Civ VI took in presenting the civ leaders with their comic looks. I presume there's not a lot to be done about the pictures (or maybe there's a mod?), but I just wanted to point out that - in case you don't already know - all animations can be disabled.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 7, 2019 15:41:47 GMT
If not for the whimsical style, Civ VI would be OK, too, but I can't stand the ruler pictures and animations.
I get that. It's a fairly different and quite spefic direction that Civ VI took in presenting the civ leaders with their comic looks. I presume there's not a lot to be done about the pictures (or maybe there's a mod?), but I just wanted to point out that - in case you don't already know - all animations can be disabled. I don't mind a different artstyle as long as it's not silly. And ruler pics wouldn't worry me too much. Constant bickering of AI empires does tho. I hated the constant popups in Civ V and they came along with the crappy demands of the shitty littly city states. I swear, next time I see city states, I'll just wipe them from the map.
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Post by degs29 on Feb 7, 2019 21:29:55 GMT
Civ VI lost me. I tried to get into it over and over and over again, and it just never captured the same magic for me as Civ V. I never had that feeling of "just one more turn" with Civ VI. Never. It's amazing that I even put 100 hours into it. But once you contrast that with the 1400 hours I put into Civ V, you can see there's an issue.
I can't really pinpoint what went wrong, but I think a big part is the district system.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 8, 2019 8:44:29 GMT
How is empire sprawl handled in Civ6?
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 11, 2019 1:44:02 GMT
I'm still on Civ 1. Haven't been able to stop playing one more turn.
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Feb 11, 2019 7:57:08 GMT
How is empire sprawl handled in Civ6? Could you specify what you mean?
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Feb 11, 2019 8:24:28 GMT
I'm still on Civ 1. Haven't been able to stop playing one more turn. That's very "Boomer"ish! Playing Civ 1 instead of Civ 2 or 3... is lke playing Sim City original instead of 2000 or later games.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 11, 2019 8:39:32 GMT
How is empire sprawl handled in Civ6? Could you specify what you mean?
I got it on the sale now. Districts are indeed similar to endless legend. Sprawl is when you spam cities and facestomp the enemy by sheer numbers. Or when you cover the whole civilisation with roads. Makes for a distinct look on maps. Usually there is some form of city upkeep, tho you can brute-force through that by dedicate spamming. In Civ 3 you could rise new cities very fast with an airport and airlifting mech infantry to disband there. In Civ6 I'd say it's kinda governors and amenities holding you back from spamming too much. No production buyout? There's a couple of roadblocks I haven't really figured out like trade routes. Then there's the tiered buildings that require others as prerequisite. I was annoyed to see city states back. At least they dont spam their petty requests anymore. First impression: Looks way more complex than Civ5. Better though. But that isn't really hard.
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