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Post by Catilina on Feb 18, 2019 14:21:07 GMT
Then how Hawke able to gain rivalry points? I found harder to be full rival with him than full friend, even with a no-compromise pro-freedom mage... and if hawke supports the Templars, I suppose it's impossibile, if doesn't be rude or support the slavery (for example uses Orana as a slave). To me, it was enough to take Fenris to mage quests, give him gifts to boost rivalry points and tell him to spare his sister. Without being cruel or supporting slavery, I maxed rivalry near the end of Act 3. And you might find it surprising, but sometimes it is the nice dialogue that gets rivalry with him. I remember that it happened when I picked the diplomatic dialogue that tells him to let go of revenge after the A Bitter Pill quest. To take Fenris to the mage quest for gain rivalry, is what I speak about: this is the pro-freedom way. I wrote, Hawke have to be pro-freedom, or have to be pro-slavery for gain rivalry. Read, what I wrote. And I didn't like that answer so much, but this is the best option in rivalry at the moment. I love the friendship conversation here more: when he can tell, he regretted to kill Hadriana.
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 18, 2019 14:42:52 GMT
I like to play marginally more grounded characters than that, so thank you, but your personal us vs. them reductionist terminology doesn't apply in my playthroughs. And I don't know what to tell you. I can't retroactively play the game with knowledge I didn't have about how it worked. And I'm okay with how it all turned out. Having a strong position doesn't mean the character isn't grounded. (Anders' character for example well grounded). Sometimes the "neutrality" doesn't work or supports the stronger side, usually the oppressor's side, the oppression. In Kirkwall the Templars, in Tevinter slavery. To be opportunists is an absolutely believable position, but not more, than someone who can't be an opportunist. Your characters have their reason, just like my characters. Both can be well grounded, not simple. In the real world, having a well-reasoned position grounded in reality where you're prepared to compromise when it's not practical to push for your ideal isn't "opportunism" or "neutrality", or "soft", it's just responsible use of your influence. And it tends to do more good in the long run, and certainly less damage, than throwing yourself heedlessly at every injustice you see hoping that the situation will eventually fit in some imaginary perfect world. I literally couldn't disagree with you more. Rejecting compromise out of hand for fear of strengthening "the oppressors", or "the tainted influence" is the definition of zealotry, because you'll always be able to find those somewhere. Anders is the furthest thing from grounded, he's a maniac alone by virtue of having an inhuman creature in his head demanding impossible and extreme solutions to a complex and sensitive problem. To his credit he fights that influence to the best of his ability, but he can't actually divorce his own views from it and that makes him utterly insane in practical terms, at least by the mid-to-late game. You can think of your characters in-game however you like, but speaking realistically, you can't condone schizophrenic wall-banging and eventual terrorism as "grounded" and consider yourself a responsible individual. And I try to play my characters as real people.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 18, 2019 15:36:07 GMT
Having a strong position doesn't mean the character isn't grounded. (Anders' character for example well grounded). Sometimes the "neutrality" doesn't work or supports the stronger side, usually the oppressor's side, the oppression. In Kirkwall the Templars, in Tevinter slavery. To be opportunists is an absolutely believable position, but not more, than someone who can't be an opportunist. Your characters have their reason, just like my characters. Both can be well grounded, not simple. In the real world, having a well-reasoned position grounded in reality where you're prepared to compromise when it's not practical to push for your ideal isn't "opportunism" or "neutrality", or "soft", it's just responsible use of your influence. And it tends to do more good in the long run, and certainly less damage, than throwing yourself heedlessly at every injustice you see hoping that the situation will eventually fit in some imaginary perfect world. I literally couldn't disagree with you more. Rejecting compromise out of hand for fear of strengthening "the oppressors", or "the tainted influence" is the definition of zealotry, because you'll always be able to find those somewhere. Anders is the furthest thing from grounded, he's a maniac alone by virtue of having an inhuman creature in his head demanding impossible and extreme solutions to a complex and sensitive problem. To his credit he fights that influence to the best of his ability, but he can't actually divorce his own views from it and that makes him utterly insane in practical terms, at least by the mid-to-late game. You can think of your characters in-game however you like, but speaking realistically, you can't condone schizophrenic wall-banging and eventual terrorism as "grounded" and consider yourself a responsible individual. And I try to play my characters as real people. There are situations, when the compromise can't work. In Kirkwall, under Meredith's rule, the compromise never existed. Even Anders tried, but failed. The nobles wanted to rebel against her, what we speak about? And why would a rebellious outlaw is unbelievable as character? In Hawke's position. Why would be more believable, that Hawke just wants to survive and/or wants to protect the city. Why would it be more believable, than Hawke has any other goal? And why would be believable someone, who thinks, s/he can do more than survive the persecution, and not do anything against it? Why more believable, if someone wants to free the others too? IRL? You didn't hear about the resistance? It existed. And there were people who worked for it. Not every people was able just accept the persecutions. Of course, the mayority did. But perhaps, Hawke's just a wo/man, but not a "common" one. Hawke is the minority: the capable person. It's believable, that s/he's rather compromise ready, but not more believable, that s/he's rebellious.
Your characters accepted the situations, my characters did not. Both are believable.
Don't forget: Hawke, who helps the mages, still seems helps the Templars too... Works with Cullen, and helps to punish/kill the real criminals, but free the innocents. Nothing unbelievable in this.
(Anders/Justice's character is well grounded with his past. He has reasons, and absolutely not "crazy", and everything what he said, proved, and always looked for proofs.)
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 18, 2019 16:16:14 GMT
There are situations, when the compromise can't work. In Kirkwall, under Meredith's rule, the compromise never existed. Even Anders tried, but failed. The nobles wanted to rebel against her, what we speak about? And why would a rebellious outlaw is unbelievable as character? In Hawke's position. Why would be more believable, that Hawke just wants to survive and/or wants to protect the city. Why would it be more believable, than Hawke has any other goal? And why would be believable someone, who thinks, s/he can do more than survive the persecution, and not do anything against it? Why more believable, if someone wants to free the others too? IRL? You didn't hear about the resistance? It existed. And there were people who worked for it. Not every people was able just accept the persecutions. Of course, the mayority did. But perhaps, Hawke's just a wo/man, but not a "common" one. Hawke is the minority: the capable person. It's believable, that s/he's rather compromise ready, but not more believable, that s/he's rebellious. Your characters accepted the situations, my characters did not. Both are believable. Don't forget: Hawke, who helps the mages, still seems helps the Templars too... Works with Cullen, and helps to punish/kill the real criminals, but free the innocents. Nothing unbelievable in this. (Anders/Justice's character is well grounded with his past. He has reasons, and absolutely not "crazy", and everything what he said, proved, and always looked for proofs.)
But we aren't talking about characters being believable, we're talking about them being, or not being, grounded. As in not possessed by unrealistic ideals or obsessions. I get what you're saying about Anders. He isn't necessarily technically insane, and I haven't said he was, because the insanity is caused by an actual magical creature residing in his head. That does make him unhinged and causes him to act unpredictably in a way that sane people don't, though. Which makes him practically insane. And anyone who doesn't accept "I invited a spirit into my head." as an excuse wouldn't be able to distinguish his behavior from fairly extreme zealotry spurred by schizophrenia, and would treat him accordingly. As I said. Having your reasons for extreme behavior isn't the same as being a strong and balanced individual with a broad perspective who isn't prone to either tunnel-vision or superficial distraction, which is what "grounded" traditionally refers to when talking about people. Your idea of him as someone who doesn't act, let alone speak, without proof or reason is cute, but it's not particularly supported by canon. I've always found him to be a complete hothead with a lot of trouble thinking through his actions or keeping his eye on his actual stated goals, even in Awakening.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 18, 2019 17:04:32 GMT
There are situations, when the compromise can't work. In Kirkwall, under Meredith's rule, the compromise never existed. Even Anders tried, but failed. The nobles wanted to rebel against her, what we speak about? And why would a rebellious outlaw is unbelievable as character? In Hawke's position. Why would be more believable, that Hawke just wants to survive and/or wants to protect the city. Why would it be more believable, than Hawke has any other goal? And why would be believable someone, who thinks, s/he can do more than survive the persecution, and not do anything against it? Why more believable, if someone wants to free the others too? IRL? You didn't hear about the resistance? It existed. And there were people who worked for it. Not every people was able just accept the persecutions. Of course, the mayority did. But perhaps, Hawke's just a wo/man, but not a "common" one. Hawke is the minority: the capable person. It's believable, that s/he's rather compromise ready, but not more believable, that s/he's rebellious. Your characters accepted the situations, my characters did not. Both are believable. Don't forget: Hawke, who helps the mages, still seems helps the Templars too... Works with Cullen, and helps to punish/kill the real criminals, but free the innocents. Nothing unbelievable in this. (Anders/Justice's character is well grounded with his past. He has reasons, and absolutely not "crazy", and everything what he said, proved, and always looked for proofs.)
But we aren't talking about characters being believable, we're talking about them being, or not being, grounded. As in not possessed by unrealistic ideals or obsessions. I get what you're saying about Anders. He isn't necessarily technically insane, and I haven't said he was, because the insanity is caused by an actual magical creature residing in his head. That does make him unhinged and causes him to act unpredictably in a way that sane people don't, though. Which makes him practically insane. And anyone who doesn't accept "I invited a spirit into my head." as an excuse wouldn't be able to distinguish his behavior from fairly extreme zealotry spurred by schizophrenia, and would treat him accordingly. As I said. Having your reasons for extreme behavior isn't the same as being a strong and balanced individual with a broad perspective who isn't prone to either tunnel-vision or superficial distraction, which is what "grounded" traditionally refers to when talking about people. Your idea of him as someone who doesn't act, let alone speak, without proof or reason is cute, but it's not particularly supported by canon. I've always found him to be a complete hothead with a lot of trouble thinking through his actions or keeping his eye on his actual stated goals, even in Awakening. Perhaps it's about I'm not a native english: I thought the "grounded characters" means, that they have reasons to behave as they behave, and detailed enough that their behaviour is believable and makes them "real person". In this view Anders is absolutely real character, just like my Hawkes. I do not count the desire of freedom as extreme view, neither a zealot who wants to fight for it. To make a rebellion isn't unrealistic idea, because the rebellion happened (and even happens in the real world). The people who want to fight for it, absolutely valid people, and neither zealots or extremists. (We can argue about Anders' concrete action – the Chantry explosion – was extreme or not, but his principles were absolutely normal in my eyes.) Just like the nobles in Kirkwall, who wanted to rebel against Meredith. In Kirkwall Meredith was the extreme, not Anders or anyone who wanted to rebel against her regime. Not only that people are well grounded, who able to turn a blind eye if someone abuses their power, for some non-existent peace, absolute well grounded people can work against it. (By the way: even King Alistair can say to Hawle about Meredith: the biggest danger just stepped out of the door... working against her isn't some zealotry – it makes sense.)
Justice can be a part of Anders' reason, but not an excuse. I never said he's an excuse – not even Anders, in friendship.
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 18, 2019 17:57:04 GMT
Perhaps it's about I'm not a native english: I thought the "grounded characters" means, that they have reasons to behave as they behave, and detailed enough that their behaviour is believable and makes them "real person". In this view Anders is absolutely real character, just like my Hawkes. I do not count the desire of freedom as extreme view, neither a zealot who wants to fight for it. To make a rebellion isn't unrealistic idea, because the rebellion happened (and even happens in the real world). The people who want to fight for it, absolutely valid people, and neither zealots or extremists. (We can argue about Anders' concrete action – the Chantry explosion – was extreme or not, but his principles were absolutely normal in my eyes.) Just like the nobles in Kirkwall, who wanted to rebel against Meredith. In Kirkwall Meredith was the extreme, not Anders or anyone who wanted to rebel against her regime. Not only that people are well grounded, who able to turn a blind eye if someone abuses their power, for some non-existent peace, absolute well grounded people can work against it. (By the way: even King Alistair can say to Hawle about Meredith: the biggest danger just stepped out of the door... working against her isn't some zealotry – it makes sense.)
Justice can be a part of Anders' reason, but not an excuse. I never said he's an excuse – not even Anders, in friendship.
You'll have a hard time combing our history for rebellions that weren't, and aren't, chock-full of atrocious and monstrous and totally unnecessary crimes against humanity, often exceeding any particular act of cruelty on the part of the "oppressors". Of course there have been exceptions where the oppressive system was so pathological and vile and all-encompassing that getting rid of it justified basically anything, but then we're talking about the Soviet system or Maoist China. Even Nazi Germany only vaguely qualified as that. The Chantry's treatment of mages most certainly does not. I'm not arguing that a grounded and sensible person rebelling against an oppressive system is impossible. Just that Anders, or a Hawke who assists and gives every possible benefit of the doubt to every possible mage, and obstructs every possible templar in Kirkwall, all on general principle, couldn't sensibly be called an example of such a person. And English isn't my native language either, don't feel bad. Just read a bunch and spend time formulating yourself in it, as you do here, and you'll eventually pick up the vocabulary and grammar naturally. We really have thoroughly derailed this thread though, and it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. Better quit the discussion.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 18, 2019 18:02:04 GMT
Perhaps it's about I'm not a native english: I thought the "grounded characters" means, that they have reasons to behave as they behave, and detailed enough that their behaviour is believable and makes them "real person". In this view Anders is absolutely real character, just like my Hawkes. I do not count the desire of freedom as extreme view, neither a zealot who wants to fight for it. To make a rebellion isn't unrealistic idea, because the rebellion happened (and even happens in the real world). The people who want to fight for it, absolutely valid people, and neither zealots or extremists. (We can argue about Anders' concrete action – the Chantry explosion – was extreme or not, but his principles were absolutely normal in my eyes.) Just like the nobles in Kirkwall, who wanted to rebel against Meredith. In Kirkwall Meredith was the extreme, not Anders or anyone who wanted to rebel against her regime. Not only that people are well grounded, who able to turn a blind eye if someone abuses their power, for some non-existent peace, absolute well grounded people can work against it. (By the way: even King Alistair can say to Hawle about Meredith: the biggest danger just stepped out of the door... working against her isn't some zealotry – it makes sense.)
Justice can be a part of Anders' reason, but not an excuse. I never said he's an excuse – not even Anders, in friendship.
You'll have a hard time combing our history for rebellions that weren't, and aren't, chock-full of atrocious and monstrous and totally unnecessary crimes against humanity, often exceeding any particular act of cruelty on the part of the "oppressors". Of course there have been exceptions where the oppressive system was so pathological and vile and all-encompassing that getting rid of it justified basically anything, but then we're talking about the Soviet system or Maoist China. Even Nazi Germany only vaguely qualified as that. The Chantry's treatment of mages most certainly does not. I'm not arguing that a grounded and sensible person rebelling against an oppressive system is impossible. Just that Anders, or a Hawke who assists and gives every possible benefit of the doubt to every possible mage, and obstructs every possible templar in Kirkwall, all on general principle, couldn't sensibly be called an example of such a person. And English isn't my native language either, don't feel bad. Just read a bunch and spend time formulating yourself in it, as you do here, and you'll eventually pick up the vocabulary and grammar naturally.
We really have thoroughly derailed this thread though, and it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. Better quit the discussion. So, I see your positions... And I don't think, that the Nazi Germany only "vaguely qualified as that".
I see the reason of Anders' and Hawke to fight against Meredith's Templars... to fight against the system. But yes, I see, why do you not see that.
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 18, 2019 18:36:14 GMT
You'll have a hard time combing our history for rebellions that weren't, and aren't, chock-full of atrocious and monstrous and totally unnecessary crimes against humanity, often exceeding any particular act of cruelty on the part of the "oppressors". So, I see your positions... And I don't think, that the Nazi Germanyonly "vaguely qualified as that".
I see the reason of Anders' and Hawke to fight against Meredith's Templars... to fight against the system. But yes, I see, why do you not see that.
By far the most destructive regimes ever put into practice on Earth were done so in an effort to "fight against the system", by people who did it because they saw injustice and wanted to fix and/or avenge it. Mao, Lenin and Stalin combined murdered, tortured, starved and left in excess of 150 million innocent people to miserable deaths in the name of dismantling an ever-expanding category of social or economical or philosophical oppressors. If you stacked those bodies on top of each other the tower would reach halfway to the moon. That's what rebelliousness on principle is when put into practice. As I said, Nazi Germany more or less qualified for that level of evil and insanity. The Chantry definitely doesn't. Obviously Hawke doesn't have those historical notes to draw from, but the Qunari and what Malcolm must have taught his kids about the Tevinter Imperium should be ample evidence of the dangers of radically trying to control society to accommodate mages without friction on either side. One of the most terrifying realizations of my life has been the fact that this generation doesn't understand the notion that a society that doesn't march people by the thousands into the woods to be shot on principle is worth changing carefully and without rash adjustments, or that a society that doesn't serve everyone's interests exactly equally must be in need of revolution. Because that totally never backfires spectacularly.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 18, 2019 19:15:04 GMT
So, I see your positions... And I don't think, that the Nazi Germanyonly "vaguely qualified as that".
I see the reason of Anders' and Hawke to fight against Meredith's Templars... to fight against the system. But yes, I see, why do you not see that.
By far the most destructive regimes ever put into practice on Earth were done so in an effort to "fight against the system", by people who did it because they saw injustice and wanted to fix and/or avenge it. Mao and the Soviet Union combined murdered, tortured, starved and left in excess of 150 million innocent people to miserable deaths in the name of dismantling an ever-expanding category of social or economical or philosophical suppressors. If you stacked those bodies on top of each other the tower would reach halfway to the moon. That's what rebelliousness on principle is when put into practice. As I said, Nazi Germany more or less qualified for that level of evil and insanity. The Chantry definitely doesn't. Obviously Hawke doesn't have those historical notes to draw from, but the Qunari and what Malcolm must have taught his kids about the Tevinter Imperium should be ample evidence of the dangers of radically trying to control society to accommodate mages without friction on either side. One of the most terrifying realizations of my life has been the fact that this generation doesn't understand the notion that a society that doesn't march people by the thousands into the woods to be shot on principle is worth changing carefully and without rash adjustments, or that a society that doesn't serve everyone's interests exactly equally must be in need of revolution. Because that totally never backfires spectacularly. More or less... hmm... eh.
We don't know, what Malcolm taught – and that Hawke listen to him or not. But it's a possible answer to Anders at the first meeting, that the freedom of mages wouldn't cause the rise of a new Imperium. So, it totally possibile, that Malcolm taught to his children that – or Hawke has his/her own way. Absolutely reasonable. And yes, what the chantry did, is a sin. The answer was Anders. I'm good with it. Nothing acceptable in a system what imprisons people just because of what they born. A rebellion rarely serves everyone's interest – and if the peaceful solution doesn't exists, the rebellion is necessary. And it was necessary, the story justified that. In Kirkwall Meredith and Elthina was the reason – they was who absolutely prevented any peaceful solution. Many people condems Anders for his method, but able to see the reason, why was it unevitable the rebellion. There are Hawkes who are pro-freedom, but doesn't want to pay the cost what Anders, some of them kills him for it – but helped to free the mages, and before worked for the Mage Underground.
What I said is that Hawkes who support that are just as well grounded, like the Hawkes, who are accept anything for the peace. Both type are valid and believable.
What did you want to say with the Qunari?
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 18, 2019 19:25:55 GMT
More or less... hmm... eh.
We don't know, what Malcolm taught – and that Hawke listen to him or not. But it's a possible answer to Anders at the first meeting, that the freedom of mages wouldn't cause the rise of a new Imperium. So, it totally possibile, that Malcolm taught to his children that – or Hawke has his/her own way. Absolutely reasonable. And yes, what the chantry did, is a sin. The answer was Anders. I'm good with it. Nothing acceptable in a system what imprisons people just because of what they born. A rebellion rarely serves everyone's interest – and if the peaceful solution doesn't exists, the rebellion is necessary. And it was necessary, the story justified that. In Kirkwall Meredith and Elthina was the reason – they was who absolutely prevented any peaceful solution. Many people condems Anders for his method, but able to see the reason, why was it unevitable the rebellion. There are Hawkes who are pro-freedom, but doesn't want to pay the cost what Anders, some of them kills him for it – but helped to free the mages, and before worked for the Mage Underground. What I said is that Hawkes who support that are just as well grounded, like the Hawkes, who are accept anything for the peace. Both type are valid and believable.
What did you want to say with the Qunari? Nope, we're done. You clearly don't understand the reality of what you're talking about and you clearly aren't even trying to listen to what I'm saying. You also just swept a hundred and fifty million corpses under the rug to try to frame me for not finding Nazi Germany sufficiently evil for your tastes. There's nothing left to say. And again, we really have derailed this thread.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 18, 2019 20:14:17 GMT
More or less... hmm... eh.
We don't know, what Malcolm taught – and that Hawke listen to him or not. But it's a possible answer to Anders at the first meeting, that the freedom of mages wouldn't cause the rise of a new Imperium. So, it totally possibile, that Malcolm taught to his children that – or Hawke has his/her own way. Absolutely reasonable. And yes, what the chantry did, is a sin. The answer was Anders. I'm good with it. Nothing acceptable in a system what imprisons people just because of what they born. A rebellion rarely serves everyone's interest – and if the peaceful solution doesn't exists, the rebellion is necessary. And it was necessary, the story justified that. In Kirkwall Meredith and Elthina was the reason – they was who absolutely prevented any peaceful solution. Many people condems Anders for his method, but able to see the reason, why was it unevitable the rebellion. There are Hawkes who are pro-freedom, but doesn't want to pay the cost what Anders, some of them kills him for it – but helped to free the mages, and before worked for the Mage Underground. What I said is that Hawkes who support that are just as well grounded, like the Hawkes, who are accept anything for the peace. Both type are valid and believable.
What did you want to say with the Qunari? Nope, we're done. You clearly don't understand the reality of what you're talking about and you clearly aren't even trying to listen to what I'm saying. You also just swept a hundred and fifty million corpses under the rug to try to frame me for not finding Nazi Germany sufficiently evil for your tastes. There's nothing left to say. And again, we really have derailed this thread. Sometimes, if people do some drastical, before the system kills millions, instead of just thinking about that "this isn't that bad, yet, so, we don't have to do anything, better to sit on our ass", would save many, many lives. This is the moral. And yes, the Nazi Germany was evil, I'm sad you only barely see that evil enough for a rebellion... I tried to stay on-topic and speak about the characters... game, you know...
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Post by Iddy on Feb 19, 2019 11:35:01 GMT
Welp, thread has been officially hijacked.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 19, 2019 12:20:34 GMT
Welp, thread has been officially hijacked. noticed that too did you?
anyway, to put things back on track...
there's a scene where I wish my character could act OOC (or act at all that is) and that's during the Magi origin (and Witch Hunt) when those two female apprentices are talking sh*te about the pc (more so when you're playing female) and Cullen
I just wish I could talk to them...or put them on fire...and not even in that order
especially during Witch Hunt I'm like...don't you DARE talk about Cullen like that, I mean sure, he's a bit of a douche atm but if you knew what he's been through you'd hold your tongue
given the fact my Warden is quite a softy, that would be a bit OOC for her
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Post by Iddy on Feb 19, 2019 14:29:18 GMT
Welp, thread has been officially hijacked. noticed that too did you?
anyway, to put things back on track...
there's a scene where I wish my character could act OOC (or act at all that is) and that's during the Magi origin (and Witch Hunt) when those two female apprentices are talking sh*te about the pc (more so when you're playing female) and Cullen
I just wish I could talk to them...or put them on fire...and not even in that order
especially during Witch Hunt I'm like...don't you DARE talk about Cullen like that, I mean sure, he's a bit of a douche atm but if you knew what he's been through you'd hold your tongue
given the fact my Warden is quite a softy, that would be a bit OOC for her
What do they say, exactly?
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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ladyofnemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 19, 2019 14:59:54 GMT
noticed that too did you?
anyway, to put things back on track...
there's a scene where I wish my character could act OOC (or act at all that is) and that's during the Magi origin (and Witch Hunt) when those two female apprentices are talking sh*te about the pc (more so when you're playing female) and Cullen
I just wish I could talk to them...or put them on fire...and not even in that order
especially during Witch Hunt I'm like...don't you DARE talk about Cullen like that, I mean sure, he's a bit of a douche atm but if you knew what he's been through you'd hold your tongue
given the fact my Warden is quite a softy, that would be a bit OOC for her
What do they say, exactly? meh, it's just jealousy talk mainly, lemme just...*goes to the toolset*
this is after the Harrowing when Jowan leaves mage1: Did you hear anything? Is she all right? Is she awake? mage2: what do you care? Are you best friends now? mage1: I'm just curious! That templar, Cullen, said it was the quickest, cleanest Harrowing he'd ever seen! He says she's very talented, and very brave mage2: Well, he would, wouldn't he? ^ it differs slightly when you're playing as a male pc
during Witch Hunt their talk is mainly like mage1: oh look who's back, never thought I'd see her here again. To bad Cullen isn't here mage2: he's not still carrying a torch for her is he? mage1: I hope not and then they talk about how they found Cullen creepy because he was always staring at them (apparently) oh and they spread rumors about the Warden having slept with Isabela and some greased nugs (which my Warden didn't )
but seriously, I just wish there'd been a way to talk back to them, especially during Witch Hunt I mean, I'm aware Cullen isn't exactly at his finest at that time, but to talk about him like that when he isn't even around to defend himself is just plain rude
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Post by Iddy on Feb 19, 2019 15:43:22 GMT
What do they say, exactly? meh, it's just jealousy talk mainly, lemme just...*goes to the toolset*
this is after the Harrowing when Jowan leaves mage1: Did you hear anything? Is she all right? Is she awake? mage2: what do you care? Are you best friends now? mage1: I'm just curious! That templar, Cullen, said it was the quickest, cleanest Harrowing he'd ever seen! He says she's very talented, and very brave mage2: Well, he would, wouldn't he? ^ it differs slightly when you're playing as a male pc
during Witch Hunt their talk is mainly like mage1: oh look who's back, never thought I'd see her here again. To bad Cullen isn't here mage2: he's not still carrying a torch for her is he? mage1: I hope not and then they talk about how they found Cullen creepy because he was always staring at them (apparently) oh and they spread rumors about the Warden having slept with Isabela and some greased nugs (which my Warden didn't )
but seriously, I just wish there'd been a way to talk back to them, especially during Witch Hunt I mean, I'm aware Cullen isn't exactly at his finest at that time, but to talk about him like that when he isn't even around to defend himself is just plain rude Damn. Cullen has always been popular, hasn't he?
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 19, 2019 16:11:28 GMT
Damn. Cullen has always been popular, hasn't he? Can you blame them?
Though to be honest I never paid much attention to him until I fell in love with the Magi origin (which to date is my most played origin)
to all other origins he's just 'that one templar who was "lucky" enough not to die with his fellows'
But his crush on the magi Warden is quite evident during the origin, stuttering and all that, also many apprentices (+Jowan (but only if he's in the party when you talk to Cullen) make reference to Cullen's crush he was also assigned by Greagoir to kill the Warden should they fail the Harrowing which he would've felt terrible doing (as he says during his conversation with the Warden)
There's also supposed to be a reference to his crush in his codex during DA2, but it never properly triggers for me (that or I may have messed up the criteria to get that specific part of his codex *shrug*)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 19, 2019 16:17:49 GMT
What do they say, exactly? meh, it's just jealousy talk mainly, lemme just...*goes to the toolset*
this is after the Harrowing when Jowan leaves mage1: Did you hear anything? Is she all right? Is she awake? mage2: what do you care? Are you best friends now? mage1: I'm just curious! That templar, Cullen, said it was the quickest, cleanest Harrowing he'd ever seen! He says she's very talented, and very brave mage2: Well, he would, wouldn't he? ^ it differs slightly when you're playing as a male pc
during Witch Hunt their talk is mainly like mage1: oh look who's back, never thought I'd see her here again. To bad Cullen isn't here mage2: he's not still carrying a torch for her is he? mage1: I hope not and then they talk about how they found Cullen creepy because he was always staring at them (apparently) oh and they spread rumors about the Warden having slept with Isabela and some greased nugs (which my Warden didn't )
but seriously, I just wish there'd been a way to talk back to them, especially during Witch Hunt I mean, I'm aware Cullen isn't exactly at his finest at that time, but to talk about him like that when he isn't even around to defend himself is just plain rude I think they are justified in saying those things about Cullen. Even ignoring the fact that he wanted them all slaughtered by that point, what are they just supposed to remain silent on someone watching them bathe without their permission? He lost the right to any of their courtesy.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 19, 2019 16:30:34 GMT
I think they are justified in saying those things about Cullen. Even ignoring the fact that he wanted them all slaughtered by that point, what are they just supposed to remain silent on someone watching them bathe without their permission? He lost the right to any of their courtesy. that's...yeah, I see your point
though, I always assumed templars all had certain duties, like...a few would guard the entrance door to the tower, others would patrol the halls or library, that sort of thing I'm not trying to defend what they did (and Cullen certainly did some dubious and weird things in the past as well, no doubt)
but it also remains that Cullen's actions where somewhat...well, I don't want to say justified, but some of them were understandable
though I guess I'll just have to keep my thoughts to head canon from now on
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Post by bolt on Mar 31, 2019 22:20:04 GMT
I once did this by accident. My first playthrough, I was rolling a goody-goody Warden who promised to bring Danyla's scarf back to her husband. I traded it for the acorn without even realizing what I had done. (In my defense, I was running a fever.)
Also, in an effort to see more content, I talked to Caladrius for so long that some of my Companions apparently thought I was accepting his deal. It wasn't until Zevran protested that I realized there was a problem. The mage I was rolling at the time would have immediately refused his offer.
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Post by copper on Apr 1, 2019 1:10:35 GMT
Yeah at least somewhat. Like, every character I play in any Bioware game with the exception of Baldur's Gate will recruit every available companion. I would in Baldur's Gate too if there weren't so many more companions than you could realistically rotate in your party. So regardless of how sketchy or morally dubious the companion is, they get recruited and I try and unlock all their content.
In a similar vein, I have a hard time turning down any quests, even with characters that would normally mind their own business instead.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 1, 2019 9:30:25 GMT
Yeah at least somewhat. Like, every character I play in any Bioware game with the exception of Baldur's Gate will recruit every available companion. I would in Baldur's Gate too if there weren't so many more companions than you could realistically rotate in your party. So regardless of how sketchy or morally dubious the companion is, they get recruited and I try and unlock all their content. In a similar vein, I have a hard time turning down any quests, even with characters that would normally mind their own business instead. I tend to do the same thing
then afterwards I think to myself...but wait a minute, would he/she trust someone like that?
...and then I proceed to make my characters bi-polar trying to please everyone after so many playthroughs I've gained a good understanding of which dialogue options to choose that don't piss them off to badly
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on Apr 1, 2019 16:13:33 GMT
Usually when this happens it is an effort to see different content. I'm often not too sure how many PTs I'll do, so I try to see as many different outcomes of quests / decisions in my first couple PTs. Sometimes this means my character will choose something that doesn't quite fit.
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 1, 2019 16:46:10 GMT
Perhaps by creating a worldstate where the Inquisitor is an elven mage - basically the two worst things my Hawke can imagine. Doesn't really make sense for him to show up to help them... since he and Varric weren't even friends. He would side with the Chantry and refuse to have anything to do with the "heretic" Inquisition, and the phrase "Corypheus is my responsibility" is also totally ooc... for every Hawke.
Another big one that perhaps better fits the OP's question would be Surana and the dark ritual. He's my canon character and the first one I played the game with. In that first playthrough I did the Dark Ritual with Morrigan. Now it's a canon choice for me, but honestly Surana would never do it - he's a blood mage and is neutral evil - but bringing some kind of old god demon spawn in to this world is where he draws the line. He spared Loghain just so he can throw him at the Archdemon - so no ritual needed. But I still make him do it just because I want Kieran to be in my Canon Worldstate...
Okay the last one is the worst. In Inquisition I sometimes pick certain dialogue options just to get approval from companions 'cause I don't want to miss any content. You have to have enough approval to get everyone's companion quests and all the conversations, etc. That honestly sucks. I wish they'll bring back the good old friendship/rivalry system for DA4. You shouldn't be punished with getting less content just because your character doesn't want to kiss everyone's ass.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 1, 2019 16:59:40 GMT
Perhaps by creating a worldstate where the Inquisitor is an elven mage - basically the two worst things my Hawke can imagine. Doesn't really make sense for him to show up to help them... since he and Varric weren't even friends. He would side with the Chantry and refuse to have anything to do with the "heretic" Inquisition, and the phrase "Corypheus is my responsibility" is also totally ooc... for every Hawke. Another big one that perhaps better fits the OP's question would be Surana and the dark ritual. He's my canon character and the first one I played the game with. In that first playthrough I did the Dark Ritual with Morrigan. Now it's a canon choice for me, but honestly Surana would never do it - he's a blood mage and is neutral evil - but bringing some kind of old god demon spawn in to this world is where he draws the line. He spared Loghain just so he can throw him at the Archdemon - so no ritual needed. But I still make him do it just because I want Kieran to be in my Canon Worldstate... Okay the last one is the worst. In Inquisition I sometimes pick certain dialogue options just to get approval from companions 'cause I don't want to miss any content. You have to have enough approval to get everyone's companion quests and all the conversations, etc. That honestly sucks. I wish they'll bring back the good old friendship/rivalry system for DA4. You shouldn't be punished with getting less content just because your character doesn't want to kiss everyone's ass. not sure I understand your second point correctly but...
if a Warden sleeps with Morrigan at least once, she's always pregnant regardless of ritual or not, so Kieran would still be part of the world state, he just wouldn't have the OG soul (sacrificing Loghain or Alistair would still be a given in that case) unless of course you want Kieran to have the OG soul...in that case disregard my comment
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