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Post by Iddy on Feb 18, 2019 22:36:29 GMT
In the end of DA2, we see Leliana meeting Cassandra in Kirkwall already with the book in her hands.
They clearly already had a plan, but there was no Breach at the time. So what was the Divine's original directive?
Bring back the Inquisition to crush the mage rebellion?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2019 23:22:36 GMT
Cassandra explained it in DAI. The Inquisition was a backup plan for ending the Mage-Templar War. In the event that the Conclave failed to bring peace, the Inquisition would be used to subdue the Rebel Mages and Templars as well as protect the civilians from the fighting.
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Post by xerrai on Feb 20, 2019 0:13:06 GMT
The post above me is correct. If the conclave failed, Justinia had every intention the inquisition to force an end to the war. But a better question was: what would Justinia's forceful ending of the mage-templar war look like?
Was she going to put the mages back to the Circles by force? Or was she going to still have the Circles but forcefully impose major reform? Or was she gong to upend the system entirely and start from scratch? Was she even going to stop at the Mages and templars and instead force her inquisition to challenge the Chantry as a whole?
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 20, 2019 18:21:14 GMT
As the previous two posters have said, it was always Justinia's intention to use the revived Inquisition to force a resolution to the conflict between the mages and the Templars.
I think that Cassandra was correct in stating that it was never Justinia's intention to totally ditch the Circles but to bring about reform within the Circles, perhaps giving them a greater degree of autonomy then previously. It should be remembered that she authorised Pharamond's research without the safety net of Templar oversight, which would indicate she didn't exactly appreciate why their presence is sometimes beneficial to everyone involved when dabbling in dangerous experimentation. However, the fact that she was willing to force tranquillity back onto Pharamond would show that she still thought that this was the only way to deal with mages who might be in danger of possession (Pharamond having proven it was not possible to strip a mage of magical power without making them tranquil).
There didn't seem to be much evidence that she was dissatisfied with the Chantry as a whole. She certainly didn't mind using her political power to get Celene to toe the line over the elven rebellion, so I doubt she would have rededicated it to charitable works and a less political outlook. She had authorised a revised edition of the Chant of Light, including the dissonant verses by Hessarian and the Canticle of Shartan, so Leliana was following her ideas on this one. Whether she would also have opened up the priesthood to other races is less certain but whatever the case, it is pretty certain she would have used the Inquisition to enforce whatever she decided to do.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 21, 2019 12:08:45 GMT
As the previous two posters have said, it was always Justinia's intention to use the revived Inquisition to force a resolution to the conflict between the mages and the Templars. I think that Cassandra was correct in stating that it was never Justinia's intention to totally ditch the Circles but to bring about reform within the Circles, perhaps giving them a greater degree of autonomy then previously. It should be remembered that she authorised Pharamond's research without the safety net of Templar oversight, which would indicate she didn't exactly appreciate why their presence is sometimes beneficial to everyone involved when dabbling in dangerous experimentation. However, the fact that she was willing to force tranquillity back onto Pharamond would show that she still thought that this was the only way to deal with mages who might be in danger of possession (Pharamond having proven it was not possible to strip a mage of magical power without making them tranquil). There didn't seem to be much evidence that she was dissatisfied with the Chantry as a whole. She certainly didn't mind using her political power to get Celene to toe the line over the elven rebellion, so I doubt she would have rededicated it to charitable works and a less political outlook. She had authorised a revised edition of the Chant of Light, including the dissonant verses by Hessarian and the Canticle of Shartan, so Leliana was following her ideas on this one. Whether she would also have opened up the priesthood to other races is less certain but whatever the case, it is pretty certain she would have used the Inquisition to enforce whatever she decided to do. In short, she is a crazy mixed bag that reinforces that status quo in some ways and defies it in others.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Feb 23, 2019 4:24:45 GMT
she authorised Pharamond's research without the safety net of Templar oversight Perhaps not official oversight, but it seems from some of the notes we find in Western Approach that at least some Templars were there with him. If the games have taught us anything though, it's that Templars are no match for demons.
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Post by xerrai on Feb 23, 2019 18:01:52 GMT
she authorised Pharamond's research without the safety net of Templar oversight Perhaps not official oversight, but it seems from some of the notes we find in Western Approach that at least some Templars were there with him. If the games have taught us anything though, it's that Templars are no match for demons. If there were templars, one would think they would be part of her knights-divine or perhaps another Seeker that Justinia personally trusted. I imagine that since her reformative standpoint was controversial, there would only a handful of templars/seekers she would actually trust with Pharamond. But are we so sure templars were involved at all? The only note that comes to mind regarding Pharamond's research in the western approach was the chantry logbook--and that could have easily been written by a Chantry brother or sister as opposed to templars. But I suppose its still something to know that Pharamond was being observed for time.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 23, 2019 19:24:42 GMT
But are we so sure templars were involved at all?
He may have had some Chantry personnel along on the trip. After all we know that tranquil are not very good at defending themselves from danger so he would have needed someone to guide him to Adamant Fortress and ensure his safety on route. However, it seems highly unlikely they were actual Templars or that they even stayed once he reached his destination. The decision to seal the doors on the Keep was taken by the Lord Mayor of the settlement as a precaution should the experiment go wrong. That suggests there were no other people there who could take the decision. Certainly, if there had been Templars, then the decision how to guard against problems would have been theirs. Yet Pharamond indicates that it was the residents of Adamant who supported him in his efforts and makes no mention at all of other outsiders being there. So it seems likely that he was escorted to Adamant and then left there. After all there was no knowing how long his experiments might take and it was not the best of locations, so any outsider would wish to leave as soon as they could.
The codex in the Western Approach is in a cave, so he may have been there conducting experiments before heading to Adamant. Whilst the author says they will stay with him, we do not know whether that was at Adamant or not. In fact the journal could have been left there on a return journey. However, if they had been Templars then leaving would have been a dereliction of duty, so whoever had been with him it seems probable they were not Templars. It is also possible that the author remained outside of the Keep when it was sealed. After all someone had to have known that he had become possessed, unless Wynne got her information from denizens of the Fade, so may be his original escort survived and reported back what had happened. However, if they had been Templars, I think Lambert would have known about it prior to being informed by Wynne.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 24, 2019 1:33:07 GMT
Come to think of it, why the hell did the Inquisition have trouble being acknowledged as legitimate in the beginning?
They had a goddamn book containing Divine Justinia's order and instructions to form the Inquisition.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
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Post by melbella on Feb 24, 2019 2:01:47 GMT
Come to think of it, why the hell did the Inquisition have trouble being acknowledged as legitimate in the beginning? They had a goddamn book containing Divine Justinia's order and instructions to form the Inquisition. One word: Politics
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 24, 2019 14:27:59 GMT
Come to think of it, why the hell did the Inquisition have trouble being acknowledged as legitimate in the beginning? They had a goddamn book containing Divine Justinia's order and instructions to form the Inquisition.
Well some members of the Chantry may have felt the orders ceased when she died so Cassandra and Leliana had no right to put them into operation. Also, just because Justinia may have been planning to do this, doesn't mean that other members of the Chantry or the wider community would have accepted it. If Corypheus hadn't killed her, it is quite possible that someone else might have done so. After all, she was the subject of an assassination attempt in Asunder and whilst the actual assailant was a mage it was clear that he would never have got near the Divine without the assistance of both Templars and nobles. Mind you, given how Corypheus managed to gate crash the Conclave, security around the Divine was pretty lax, particularly in light of this earlier attempt on her life.
What the writ did was allow Cassandra and Leliana to feel they could proceed without totally compromising their faith and vows. I am not sure about Leliana but I'm pretty sure Cassandra would not have gone along with setting up the Inquisition if it hadn't got the tacit backing of the dead Divine.
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