Sentinel Elves Discussion

"Shemlen" and its shortening "shem" is "quick children," because they're mortal. That modern day elves use it as a slur for humans is a bit silly, since they are now also "quick children." It's not inaccurate for ancient elves to use it for modern elves.


The player is not an elf "like them." Even Solas makes clear that he doesn't see the elf Inquisitor the same as him, even to a romanced PC. He basically looks at everyone like they're walking lobotomy victims because they've been cut off from the Fade.

An elf, sure. Otherwise Solas wouldn't make all those efforts to reconnect Sera to her elfiness.

Just... not the same kind of elf.

It's more like a condescending "Isn't he cute for thinking he's an elf? *pats head*" type of thing.

Essentially, your PC may look like an elf because you share similar genetic traits, but to them you are so far removed from what it is to truly BE an elf that you may as well not be one at all.

I wouldn't be too annoyed, though. Many Dalish have a similar attitude about city elves, which is demonstrated in DAO.


Hard to say. I dunno if "pissed" is the correct attitude. Perhaps they might find it amusing.

The meeting between Abelas and Velanna would result in some karmic justice.

No. You’re the shadow of an elf.

Ah. So a couple of followups.

1) What would the dalish pc opinion be as to wearing this armor? Is it justified for the modern dalish to wear it as some sort of symbol of pride since the sentinels are their ancestors? Would it be justified for them to wear it based on pride for the old ways?

2) Is the armor (lorewise) molded for elves only? I noticed it looks unique and made in the vision of elvish sleek anatomy and physiology build. It looks better on elves than non elf.

I suppose it would depend on how the Dalish PC felt after being rejected by Abelas. When my Dalish mage took the Knight Enchanter specialisation and Solas told him how it was based on the Arcane Warrior and how respected they had been among the ancient elves, my mage felt glad he had opted for it. So using sentinel armour could be regarded in the same way, honouring the ancestors regardless of Abelas' words. As I point out above, Flemeth/Mythal praised my PC as one of the People and since she outranks Abelas, he was happy to take her endorsement as justification for continuing to honour the old ways.

All my Dalish PCs made a point of collecting as many items that were attributed to the elves as possible, particularly those that were specifically identified as being from ancient times, and kept them even when they no longer used them, or could not use them, in order to pass them on at the next Arlathven. (Me role playing that they would think it sacrilege to sell them rather than keeping them for the use of the Dalish generally). My personal chest was stashed full of such items by the end, some only useable by elves but others that seemed useable by anyone despite their origins, for example the shield from the Temple of Dirthamen.

I'd also note that Cilian, the Dalish Arcane Warrior from multi-player, uses sentinel armour, which he presumably found at the same shrine he discovered and studied the ancient secrets of the order. So the Dalish PC wouldn't be the only modern elf using such armour. To be honest, given it is clearly crafted for elven use and is quality workmanship, any Dalish would be foolish to pass it up regardless of where it came from.  The Dalish actually spend much effort in exploring old ruins specifically to find items from their ancestors that they can recover and use.

Correction, Fen'Harel and Abelas regard all modern elves the same whether Dalish or city elves. Which is odd if you think about it because who do they think modern elves are descended from? Also for some reason the Crossroads recognise modern elves as elves even elves like Sera who don't even want to be regarded as elves. Flemeth/Mythal recognises the Dalish Inquisitor as one of the People and also OGB Kieran can detect their blood is "old" and different from other races. So may be it is Fen'Harel and Abelas who have got it wrong.

nope. fen'harel recruit city elves to his cause, as part of his desire to restore the world of the elves, he is doing it for them. also listen when asking solas about city elves what his response. also listen to his conversations with sera, he clearly tries to recruit her, but end up deeming she is more human than an elf and give up. the dalish however, he clearly have an issue with them, because according to him, they are wrong and refuse to listen or accept his knowledge. their ways are not the ways of the elves, at least not the way he sees it. abelas is the same in that aspect, he says that the "the ones we see in the forest, shadows wearing vallaslin" are not his people, clearly he refers to the dalish and not city elves. also when solas says there are others who yet linger and abelas says "others like you?" he this time refer to city elves and when solas respond "such as i" he seem to concede his point.

as for mythal, it's a different matter, she is a respectable individual that doesn't treat people like they are beneath her. your examples of elven blood being recognised by different sources is not relevant, of course fen'harel knows the salish are elves by blood, his issue, and the reason he thnik they are less elves, are with their ways.

I'd say Dalish culture is not so very different from that of the ancient elves. Just because they think Fen'Harel is the enemy doesn't make their culture that different from that of the ancient ones. Trespasser confirms that those who supported the Evanuris were ordered to think that way about him and it is clear that the Dalish got their instruction handed down to them from the priesthood of the other elven gods. What was surprising to me about the revelations in DAI and its associated DLC was just how much the Dalish actually got right.

However, you are right in identifying the lack of Fade connection as being a significant factor. Does that mean the sentinels were immune to its effects? That is something I was not quite clear on. If they were trapped this side of the Veil, wouldn't they have been affected in exactly the same way? So possibly it is the fact that modern elves are many generations down the line living on this side of the Veil, whereas the sentinels just went into uthenera but didn't breed at all; hence Abelas saying their numbers have diminished overtime.



I don't think this is the case. He killed Felassan for helping Briala, a city elf, when he could just have told him to sign her up. Just because he wants to recruit them to do his dirty work for him doesn't mean he is actually doing what he is doing for their sake. In Trespasser it came across to me that the people he is trying to save are other "elvhen" like Abelas. He even confirms to Abelas that there are other elves like him out there (he is definitely not talking about modern city elves). To be honest I think his conversations with Sera are more a case of him confirming in his own mind that modern elves are too far removed to help and his actions need to be reversed.

The Dalish admit that a lot was lost over time but they were trying to rebuild in permanent settlements in the Dales. It is true that what is now their nomadic culture is not a true reflection of ancient elven life but there are many other aspects that are.



I actually take issue with this. Solas says they are slave markings because that is consistent with how he views the Evanuris. However, the memories of Abelas in the Temple of Mythal make it quite clear that he chose to serve Mythal and that is why he has her vallaslin. I'm pretty sure if you said to Abelas that he was a slave, he would be offended at the idea. It should also be pointed out that no one forces the Inquisitor to drink from the Well of Sorrows if they do, despite the warning that it will impart an obligation to serve on the drinker.

The Dalish teach that taking a particular god's vallaslin shows allegiance to them and a wish to base their lives around what they understood that god represented. The codices in the Temple of Mythal would seem to endorse this and it would seem that the sentinels still honour the various gods within the temple complex. For all we know, the rite of passage into adulthood element of taking vallaslin may have had genuine grounding in the culture of the past. The fact that Solas removed the vallaslin of his followers was a sign that they had rejected the rule of the Evanuris.

I just find it a bit annoying that we are meant to swallow whole everything that he asserts simply because he claims it is the absolute truth.