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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Phantom on Mar 9, 2020 3:43:07 GMT
Join Cerberus and you will not get in trouble for defending booze and booty.... That depends, will I get Miranda Lawson's booty?😎 yes, She has a thing for Alpha males....doubly so if they are smart.
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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 9, 2020 3:49:03 GMT
That depends, will I get Miranda Lawson's booty?😎 yes, She has a thing for Alpha males....doubly so if they are smart. Sweet! But, instead of me joining Cerberus, how about you lot join us? And together we shall take the galaxy. As is humanity's right.
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Serza
Rendering planets viable since 2017
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Serza on Mar 9, 2020 22:18:29 GMT
Boobs are temporary. The God-Emperor is eternal.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 10, 2020 3:23:07 GMT
Boobs are temporary. The God-Emperor is eternal. That’s tragic. It should be the other way around.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 5:38:07 GMT
Boobs are temporary. The God-Emperor is eternal. Boobs are temporary. Gravity is eternal.
FTFY
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2020 13:58:39 GMT
Those were explained in the game and it's basically a "that the A.I. is a civilian operation" and they didn't want to have heavily armed and fighting force, they were going to colonize uninhabited planets not to conquer the whole damn galaxy also building "defense fleets" takes a LOT of fucking time and they had to get out of the Milky Way Galaxy before the Reapers came, Would you know if a ship is heavily armed? Look at the SR2. Would you know it has a thannix cannon? Having defenses put in place would at least give a fighting chance to get out of trouble. Destroying the salarian ship should have happened once Ryder and team were detected or at least once Ryder is caught in that immobilization field to have him/her watch as the kett destroy the salarian ship. That's what I would have done. How could Ryder destroy archie's ship without the salarian ship being damaged? Once the salarian pathfinder is freed, Ryder call's Tann to ask for reinforcements. A couple strike teams show up. Each member has a rucksack with explosives. While Ryder and squad search the map to Meridian, the strike teams place explosives all over the ship. The other squadmates can help the salarian pathfinder search for any salarian survivors. A couple of squadmates come to Ryder's rescue when trapped in the immbilization field instead of having death by sam voice. After getting the location of Meridian, Ryder helps salarians/krogan while the other squadmates help the salarians/krogan. Once off archie's ship, they set off the explosives just as they leave the scene. Unknown to them, archie was able to escape, but still saw Ryder's memories. Ryder will assume archie is dead.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 11, 2020 14:29:22 GMT
Destroying the salarian ship should have happened once Ryder and team were detected or at least once Ryder is caught in that immobilization field to have him/her watch as the kett destroy the salarian ship. That's what I would have done. How could Ryder destroy archie's ship without the salarian ship being damaged? Once the salarian pathfinder is freed, Ryder call's Tann to ask for reinforcements. A couple strike teams show up. Each member has a rucksack with explosives. While Ryder and squad search the map to Meridian, the strike teams place explosives all over the ship. The other squadmates can help the salarian pathfinder search for any salarian survivors. A couple of squadmates come to Ryder's rescue when trapped in the immbilization field instead of having death by sam voice. After getting the location of Meridian, Ryder helps salarians/krogan while the other squadmates help the salarians/krogan. Once off archie's ship, they set off the explosives just as they leave the scene. Unknown to them, archie was able to escape, but still saw Ryder's memories. Ryder will assume archie is dead. Fake-out deaths rarely carry any dramatic weight, so it's probably better to avoid this. We as the player would know full well that they're still alive, and characters assuming they're dead is just a narrative prop that sets up a non-twist. Instead of assuming the Archon's dead, it would be better to simply get that prop out of the way and have either Ryder or another character state plainly that they may have gotten away, even if the ship is destroyed. It could be seen as a victory insofar that the Salarian ark is saved and the Kett forces are short one battleship, but they'd know that the war itself isn't over. Trouble is, the fate of the flagship has little bearing on the story. It has no capabilities we're aware of that make a difference. We could make one up, but at this point, it's never really clear that the Archon truly needs it to be successful. It could simply be replaced by another ship or group of ships in a fleet which we never really know the full scale of, since they could be based anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 14:39:15 GMT
Those were explained in the game and it's basically a "that the A.I. is a civilian operation" and they didn't want to have heavily armed and fighting force, they were going to colonize uninhabited planets not to conquer the whole damn galaxy also building "defense fleets" takes a LOT of fucking time and they had to get out of the Milky Way Galaxy before the Reapers came, Would you know if a ship is heavily armed? Look at the SR2. Would you know it has a thannix cannon? Having defenses put in place would at least give a fighting chance to get out of trouble. Destroying the salarian ship should have happened once Ryder and team were detected or at least once Ryder is caught in that immobilization field to have him/her watch as the kett destroy the salarian ship. That's what I would have done. How could Ryder destroy archie's ship without the salarian ship being damaged? Once the salarian pathfinder is freed, Ryder call's Tann to ask for reinforcements. A couple strike teams show up. Each member has a rucksack with explosives. While Ryder and squad search the map to Meridian, the strike teams place explosives all over the ship. The other squadmates can help the salarian pathfinder search for any salarian survivors. A couple of squadmates come to Ryder's rescue when trapped in the immbilization field instead of having death by sam voice. After getting the location of Meridian, Ryder helps salarians/krogan while the other squadmates help the salarians/krogan. Once off archie's ship, they set off the explosives just as they leave the scene. Unknown to them, archie was able to escape, but still saw Ryder's memories. Ryder will assume archie is dead. Here we go with the visuals in space again. Sensors would likely be able to detect if a ship is heavily armed. Visually, enemies would be hard pressed to see the ship itself.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2020 15:32:15 GMT
Here we go with the visuals in space again. Sensors would likely be able to detect if a ship is heavily armed. Visually, enemies would be hard pressed to see the ship itself. And here you go again with another assumption. You say they would likely be able to detect, but have no definite proof. Even if you go unarmed, what's preventing an unknown enemy from firing at you? If I saw your ship in my space, I would fire a warning shot. If you fail to show signs of acknowledging that by either stopping or at least slowing down, I would fire at your ship. I don't care if you're armed or not. I have no idea what you intentions are. I
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 11, 2020 16:43:09 GMT
Here we go with the visuals in space again. Sensors would likely be able to detect if a ship is heavily armed. Visually, enemies would be hard pressed to see the ship itself. And here you go again with another assumption. You say they would likely be able to detect, but have no definite proof. Even if you go unarmed, what's preventing an unknown enemy from firing at you? If I saw your ship in my space, I would fire a warning shot. If you fail to show signs of acknowledging that by either stopping or at least slowing down, I would fire at your ship. I don't care if you're armed or not. I have no idea what you intentions are. I Well, it is established in the original trilogy that the internal structure of ships and stations are things we can get detailed readings of using scanners. Stands to reason that a weapons array won't be confused with the lunch tables in a cafeteria.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2020 16:54:05 GMT
And here you go again with another assumption. You say they would likely be able to detect, but have no definite proof. Even if you go unarmed, what's preventing an unknown enemy from firing at you? If I saw your ship in my space, I would fire a warning shot. If you fail to show signs of acknowledging that by either stopping or at least slowing down, I would fire at your ship. I don't care if you're armed or not. I have no idea what you intentions are. I Well, it is established in the original trilogy that the internal structure of ships and stations are things we can get detailed readings of using scanners. Stands to reason that a weapons array won't be confused with the lunch tables in a cafeteria. Can that be said for the geth dreadnought? How about a reaper and collector ship?
Did the tempest have scanners?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 17:02:51 GMT
Here we go with the visuals in space again. Sensors would likely be able to detect if a ship is heavily armed. Visually, enemies would be hard pressed to see the ship itself. And here you go again with another assumption. You say they would likely be able to detect, but have no definite proof. Even if you go unarmed, what's preventing an unknown enemy from firing at you? If I saw your ship in my space, I would fire a warning shot. If you fail to show signs of acknowledging that by either stopping or at least slowing down, I would fire at your ship. I don't care if you're armed or not. I have no idea what you intentions are. I You would fire a warning shot, provoking a hostile response, without knowing what sort of armaments that enemy has to fire back at you? An idiotic move, IMO, in that you don't know if that civilization has the means to just obliterate your little ship in a thousand different ways that you may not even be able to detect yourself as being weapons at all. At least if you don't fire the first shot, you have a chance that they won't be hostile towards you.
It's the same dilemma from either side when they don't know which is more advanced and what their weapons are or even what sort of tech they are based upon (if they can't detect them). If Tempest goes in armed and the aliens know they are armed, then they'll know just how inferior those weapons are to their own, plus they'll have a reason to assume the encroaching ship has hostile intentions. Whether or not that first shot then is a warning shot or just a shot that obliterates them depends on the alien civilization encountered. Do you think the archon would have even stopped to scan and talk to Ryder if Tempest had assorted armaments on display? Fortunately, they didn't... and that played on Archon's ego. He underestimated what Tempest could do... out maneuver him... and so, they escaped.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 17:06:00 GMT
Well, it is established in the original trilogy that the internal structure of ships and stations are things we can get detailed readings of using scanners. Stands to reason that a weapons array won't be confused with the lunch tables in a cafeteria. Can that be said for the geth dreadnought? How about a reaper and collector ship?
Did the tempest have scanners?
Suvi says "We're being scanned"
Ryder responds "Well scan them back."
Does that answer your question?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2020 17:30:37 GMT
You would fire a warning shot, provoking a hostile response, without knowing what sort of armaments that enemy has to fire back at you? An idiotic move, IMO, in that you don't know if that civilization has the means to just obliterate your little ship in a thousand different ways that you may not even be able to detect yourself as being weapons at all. At least if you don't fire the first shot, you have a chance that they won't be hostile towards you. Little ship? If I had a little ship, that didn't have much firepower and defenses, plus didn't have x number of ships nearby, I would signal ahead to the nearest Commander to let them know there is an unwanted enemy in our territory. If that ship is able to stop me and whatever force I have with me, then good for them. So the idiotic move would be for that one ship to fire back at me unless it has reaper type firepower and defenses.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 17:38:54 GMT
You would fire a warning shot, provoking a hostile response, without knowing what sort of armaments that enemy has to fire back at you? An idiotic move, IMO, in that you don't know if that civilization has the means to just obliterate your little ship in a thousand different ways that you may not even be able to detect yourself as being weapons at all. At least if you don't fire the first shot, you have a chance that they won't be hostile towards you. Little ship? If I had a little ship, that didn't have much firepower and defenses, plus didn't have x number of ships nearby, I would signal ahead to the nearest Commander to let them know there is an unwanted enemy in our territory. If that ship is able to stop me and whatever force I have with me, then good for them. So the idiotic move would be for that one ship to fire back at me unless it has reaper type firepower and defenses. OK. does it make a difference if I said "big ship" instead? No, it doesn't. If you can't detect weaponry you recognize, the possibility exists that the intruder has weaponry that you don't recognize... so advanced you don't recognize it. The AI traveled from another galaxy, something your civilization has not been advanced enough to do. Yet, without knowing, you're banking on your "warning shot" intimidating them into playing nice... whereas, they could possibly open fire with an unbelievably strong weapon that you simply did not realize they had... and you've turned what possibly was a non-hostile encounter into the total destruction of your lesser advanced civilization than the intruders.
From the AI's side of the equation. They are approaching the home of a civilization they don't know if they have weaponry or are hostile, but they approach with what they think are a big show of guns on their vessel. Civilization being approached goes... These idiots are using the sort of weapons tech we retired hundreds of years ago, but now we think they aren't the peaceful type at all. If they had of at least appeared friendly, maybe we would have at least considered talking with them... as it is, just blow them out of our skies...
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2020 17:53:44 GMT
If you can't detect weaponry you recognize, the possibility exists that the intruder has weaponry that you don't recognize... so advance you don't recognize it. If that's the case then why didn't the ship have any weapons or at the very least defenses for the ship? Were they banking on waving we come in peace flag would work? If they were able to destroy my ship, they would still have to deal with the rest of my force and any reinforcements that show up. If they were smart, they would use that time, after destroying my ship to get to ftl to avoid any damage since they are carrying 20 000 pods. I doubt they would risk putting them in danger.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 18:03:54 GMT
If you can't detect weaponry you recognize, the possibility exists that the intruder has weaponry that you don't recognize... so advance you don't recognize it. If that's the case then why didn't the ship have any weapons or at the very least defenses for the ship? Were they banking on waving we come in peace flag would work? If they were able to destroy my ship, they would still have to deal with the rest of my force and any reinforcements that show up. If they were smart, they would use that time, after destroying my ship to get to ftl to avoid any damage since they are carrying 20 000 pods. I doubt they would risk putting them in danger. Why are you banking on the civilizations they would encounter being hostile yet weak enough that any weapons you could carry with you across dark space would be even remotely effective?... to the point that you assume the civilizations you encountered would fire a shot at any approaching vessel? You'd be forfeiting space for food and supplies and people... things you KNOW you need for something that might be totally ineffective against whatever you encounter anyways. The safe bet is diplomacy. If it doesn't work, you're likely dead anyways since you have no way to restock heavy arms in space and, as you say, the home team, if hostile, likely has a fleet that could overpower you... either instantly or over time.
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KaiserShep
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 11, 2020 19:34:36 GMT
Well, it is established in the original trilogy that the internal structure of ships and stations are things we can get detailed readings of using scanners. Stands to reason that a weapons array won't be confused with the lunch tables in a cafeteria. Can that be said for the geth dreadnought? How about a reaper and collector ship?
Did the tempest have scanners?
I'm not sure how that really relates. There was no question whether or not the ship had weapons. It obviously did since it was handily mollywhopping the Quarian fleet. It was just a matter of figuring out how to disable it. EDI did guide us through the collector ship using her cyber warfare suite. Whether or not that involved detailed scans of the ship's interior was neither here or there. The minor details of that scene were not really important. The Collector Base, on the other hand, is a whole other story. The entire battle plan hinged on the accuracy of the Normandy's detailed scans of the corridors and structure of the station. Everything rode on being able to see where exactly to go. I don't think it should even be a question of whether or not the Tempest has scanners. It has to. Putting aside that this technology is pretty much ubiquitous throughout the MEU, it should actually be impossible to navigate a ship through space and travel via FTL to other star systems without computerized assistance. Whether or not the plot demands that it be used to draw out battle plans is another story.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 19:57:42 GMT
If you can't detect weaponry you recognize, the possibility exists that the intruder has weaponry that you don't recognize... so advance you don't recognize it. If that's the case then why didn't the ship have any weapons or at the very least defenses for the ship? Were they banking on waving we come in peace flag would work? If they were able to destroy my ship, they would still have to deal with the rest of my force and any reinforcements that show up. If they were smart, they would use that time, after destroying my ship to get to ftl to avoid any damage since they are carrying 20 000 pods. I doubt they would risk putting them in danger. We are turly going in circles. The intrudees do not know if the AI has more advanced weaponry on board that is capable not only of destroying their ship, but also capable of destroying any ship that comes after it. So for a "closer to home" example, let's say, we are visited by an alien race that has come from a very distance star. Are we going to assume that they are going to intimidated by a warning shot or are we going to assume that their tech is likely way more advanced than ours and not risk unnecessarily provoking an attack on our home planet... that is carrying 7 billion people. I sincerely doubt you'd actually fire a "warning' shot. IMO, it is an idiotic idea.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2020 20:23:42 GMT
I'm not sure how that really relates. There was no question whether or not the ship had weapons. It obviously did since it was handily mollywhopping the Quarian fleet. No kidding it has weapons. Would a scanner know if the ship has weapons if it came across it without ever encountering a ship like that before? So the hologram was able to guide Shepard through the ship, so what? Would scanning that ship, using the SR1 know if it had weapons or not?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2020 20:37:09 GMT
.We are turly going in circles. The intrudees do not know if the AI has more advanced weaponry on board that is capable not only of destroying their ship, but also capable of destroying any ship that comes after it. Would that stop a fleet filled with space pirates? They see one ship enter their space. They're eyes light up figuring it will be easy pickings. Once they close in, they may have second thoughts once that AI ship fires back with nasty results. The space pirates crap themselves trying to retreat. Of course that won't happen since the AI ship can't defend itself. So the space pirates end up having a lot of fun.
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 11, 2020 21:01:37 GMT
I'm not sure how that really relates. There was no question whether or not the ship had weapons. It obviously did since it was handily mollywhopping the Quarian fleet. No kidding it has weapons. Would a scanner know if the ship has weapons if it came across it without ever encountering a ship like that before? So the hologram was able to guide Shepard through the ship, so what? Would scanning that ship, using the SR1 know if it had weapons or not? You mean would a person reviewing the scan be able to tell if it was a weapon of some sort? I guess so? There should be some basic principle of how weapons work that would allow someone to tell if there's an apparatus that discharges large amounts of power compressed into some sort of chamber. Like, anyone within this universe with proper technical acumen should be able to surmise if something serves as a gun aboard a ship. Would it be like a scene out of Hunt for Red October is trying to figure out submarine doors, or with some technicians arguing whether or not this cylindrical series of power conduits does anything other than bake cakes no one is around to eat? This is not really a question anyone who doesn't serve as an actual writer for the scene can really answer definitively. If the plot required characters to survey the internals of an enemy ship, something like weapons would probably not be a meaningful item to keep hidden by confounding them. There's no satisfying reveal there. It'd have to be something more fantastical, like some stupendously more advanced FTL drive, or something that serves a greater purpose than just shooting at things. We're not talking about stratagem held to the strict standards of what any known military would do. That's never really been what guided Mass Effect. It primarily serves as narrative devices, ideally without stretching the boundaries of what we can accept in its brand of space magic without totally breaking consistency in the narrative. Like, in Star Trek, when that enemy warbird is charging its weapons, some ensign can just say that the ship is powering weapons based on a readout we the audience never see. We accept it as just a normal function of the ship, because it's no more fantastical a capability than transporters or warp itself. What we do have on-hand for Mass Effect, however, is a clear illustration of instances when the ship uses its fancy scanner to take detailed shots of more than just the external features of a ship or base. The details of how this happens doesn't really matter, since we already accept that an omnitool, a device that already has its way with the laws of physics, can do the same thing on a smaller scale.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 21:36:59 GMT
.We are turly going in circles. The intrudees do not know if the AI has more advanced weaponry on board that is capable not only of destroying their ship, but also capable of destroying any ship that comes after it. Would that stop a fleet filled with space pirates? They see one ship enter their space. They're eyes light up figuring it will be easy pickings. Once they close in, they may have second thoughts once that AI ship fires back with nasty results. The space pirates crap themselves trying to retreat. Of course that won't happen since the AI ship can't defend itself. So the space pirates end up having a lot of fun.
You said you would fire a warning shot as a member of the species being intruded upon. I said that would be an idiotic move since you don't know 1) whether or not they are hostile or if your warning shot would make them hostile; and 2) you don't know the level of their weaponry. If you do provoke a hostile response with your warning shot, since you're looking at an alien species that has just traveled across all of dark space to get to you, you have no idea of what they might be capable. You're going to try diplomacy first since that would not unnecessarily provoke a hostile response from the incoming species. If you blindly fire warning shots at anything that comes to you... you're a fool.
If the incoming ship is hostile, they will show weapons first and then fire the first shot. However, the AI is not hostile, so they do not want to appear hostile in case the aliens they encounter have weaponry that far exceeds the capabilities of anything the AI could carry with them. So, a warning shot from the AI would also be a stupid maneuver. The ability to defend oneself is an unknown. Sure, you load up with your best weapons and just as easily as encounter space pirates you could fend off, you might encounter a species that all that weaponry has absolutely no chance to defend against. To carry all that heavy weaponry, you're forfeiting things you do know you need for sure. Food, water, and people. The AI chose to risk that they would not encounter anything hostile in deep space moving at FTL and that they would not encounter anything hostile in Andromeda... and brought the food, water, and people along instead of heavy weaponry. They did bring weaponry of lighter varieties - fighters and hand-held weapons... and per the story, their gamble paid off. The food and water Nexus carried with it is what got it through 18 months before the Hyperion arrived.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 11, 2020 21:40:31 GMT
I'd have to question the motives of space pirates if they're going after a ship with no cargo of any apparent value. Like, if space pirates attempted to assault the Tempest, they'd yield no positive results on their end, because even if they crippled the ship, they wouldn't be able to actually take anything inside for themselves without dying horrific deaths. Of course, it's doubtful that pirate scum would have anything nearly as maneuverable, so it'd be kind of a non-issue there.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2020 23:01:53 GMT
To carry all that heavy weaponry, What heavy weaponry are you talking about?
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