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Post by Rouccoco on Jan 7, 2020 12:25:49 GMT
I was talking about Kirkwall in my posts, not the whole war across the continent. So better that the circle get annulled and everyone inside dies? Again, what game have you been playing? Nothing like that happens in DA2. His appearance doesn't change, save for the black outfit. No, his writer for DAO specifically stated that the rapey vibes some got from him in the famale mage Origin were intentional, and she wrote him as a creep. Pretty much every single circle that gets shown in more detail has templars abusing their power. For example, the only thing the game says about the White Spire is that the templars killed Cole there by starving him to death. Love letters =/= having babies. Also sex =/= having babies. Thanks, good talk. "Hell" in this context is in no way insulting. Before you call me a coward you might want to clarify that first. Well, then you won't like me, because I'm honest and gay ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Rouccoco on Jan 7, 2020 12:34:29 GMT
Anyway, as a general reminder - fuck the chantry
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Post by Catilina on Jan 7, 2020 13:02:29 GMT
Mages and Templars can't live in peace, until the mages aren't free You know that how? I am talking about our DA country with brainwashed simple people (it's important, just in case). Even if there is some kind of peace, before that hundreds of villagers and mages will die, but more villager as for mages it is enough to throw a fireball to kill 50 people in no time + don't even know how many years: historically people are like snails to except changes, and here braiwashed villagers and magic are involed - it is even more complicated. Plus we need reforms anyway. Fiona was tricked by Alexius: he offered citizenship of servitude for the Imperium. That's not slavery exactly. Fiona would never sell her fellows and herself. She was a slave. A pet of an Orlesian noble, when she was 7. Still: she thought the Circle is awful. Despite she experienced terrible things. yes, otherwise other mages who blame Fiona are just morons, who actuallty were against such deal (some even wanted back to the circle)and accused Fiona to sell them into slavery. Untill they repay the dept, they are slaves. Like elves. And Fiona shouldn't even have talked to Alexius. Period. FOW NOW her past is irrelevant: other mages consider her as a leader NOW. And she failed them. Bethany "lied", yes. If you call "lie", if someone wants to reassure her remained family, for she sacrificed herself. "Don't worry, I'm fine". Oh, of course, she is. My Hawke just waited the proper moment to gut Meredith... in this matter I understand the difference: I prefer honesty, no matter what it is (I guess my own sister should now that already and know that I know when she lies). You prefer lies for the sake of someone's peace. No wonder I like Carver more than Berhany and not only because of this matter (and not cauze of his looks or whatever). Happy for your Hawke. Mages and Templars can't live in peace, until the mages aren't free. Or... of course they can... like Orana wanted to live in peace with Hadriana. He was terrified from the freedom, and begged Hawke don't hurt Hadriana. Later she told, she felt sorry for Hadriana, she understood her, because the other magisters constantly mocked her. Hadriana sacrificed his father for his blood. Fenris killed his protectors for Danarius. He told Hawke he didn't wanted the freedom, it was an accident. And when he killed the Fog Warriors he woke up, he can't live in slavery anymore. That's the peace between the oppressed and oppressor. Of course some mages feared the freedom: one thing they knew is the Circle: this was their prison and home. + In the Act1, he offered her head to Anders... half-joking – but later to him, was good enough to see, Karl, and what happened in the Chantry to decide, that person isn't worthy to anything else, killing her just serves the good. And especially after Ella's case, he didn't feel for a moment, that Bethany's safe in that place surrounded a bunch of crazy perverted mobster (Alrik was not alone there, nor in the Chantry – and seems his zealots, agreed with him until their death.). He just hoped, Bethany good enough to avoid the troubles. This Hawke is my sweetheart. A good helping guy. A pure hearted reaver/berserker I never understood, how Hawke can believe, that Bethany's in safe in that place. If not fooling herself into false illusions, because thinking about reality is worse than believing there's nothing wrong. Not Anders' act troubled Bethany, but Meredith and her Templars. Anders' act freed her. And she told, she knows her place already in the world: to free her fellow mages Catilina , would you, please, make small quotes at least if you answer another post, so it could be clear to what exact sentences you are referring? I am really sorry to say that, but sometimes your posts are SO fucked up, that I just can't understand ....well..nothing at all (I understant there could be mistakes, misprints), but this? You know, 2-3 sentences also could be connected with one thought. Again, I am sorry to say that, but it is what it is. I can't even answer you for the rest of your posts cauze of the above reasons. 1. About that the system needs reform, and people fear from the freedom (both mages and non-mages). Partially I explained with Orana and Fenris. So: next part. Freedom is not easy, I never said, but it have to start somewhere. Small reforms aren't help – easy to withhold them, before anyone realizes, they're exist. And the more drastic reforms also can cause wars, riots etc, like it happened in Asunder: Justinia just investigated the Tranquility problem and it came out, in response the Seekers and the Templars immediately started a war. That shows, the system cannot be reformed even with the biggest faith in this. Needs a new one, as Bethany says at the Gallows: the people must find a better way to live with the mages. People's mind will changed slowly, but the people's ignorance doesn't justify to imprison innocents and to deprive them of their right to self-determination. Translate to Thedas: to sell send them to another Circle without their consent – to tear apart lovers, friends, mother/father and children is like slavery. They are properties – even if the Chantry denies that. The practice proves it. Also: how you can reform an absolutely unjust system? Impossible. You spoke about the children in the Circle, to Rouccoco . According to you, is absolutely okay they torn apart the parents from their kid, because the circle have bigger problems, and the children just would cause more trouble... a "kindergarten" isn't welcome here... What problem they have? The mages here can't do anything, just staring the walls, but they don't have time for their children? Malcolm Hawke had? He even worked as well. NOTHING justifies that practice, only cruel and shows, who is the owner and who's the slave. That's so simple. Again: this system is absolutely irreformable. Nothing else can help just burn the whole to the ground, and build a new one. We can call the new education/research centres as "Circle" but shouldn't be like the prison-system. *** 2. Again: Fiona was tricked by Alexius. She was outraged, when it came out what is his real plan. Shit situation, but Fiona isn't moron. What about the templars who followed a demon and attacked innocents, abused the citizens, instead of their "sacred duty" to protect people? *** 3. The first of them was about that some mages and Templars want to live in peace. I thought it was clear, sorry if not. The second was about, that Bethany "lied" or not in her letter, and she was safe in the Circle or not – and how my Hawke interpreted the whole situation. Seems you got it, you answered them all.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 7, 2020 13:22:17 GMT
You’re both absolutely wrong. Blowing up a building killing hundreds of innocent people in order to spark a war which will lead to the deaths of countless more innocent people is about as morally black an action one can commit. I didn't say blowing up innocents is good. You said black, I called DAU desicions grey as imo they are grey (almost all of them). he already dedicated himself for the freedom of mages. not completely it seems, considering the romance and using Hawke's estate as a base for his mage-freedom operations: don't say "I love you" and he himself brings up the question "move in as the templars here and there". And at the same time yells at Merrill and scolds her "No wonder demons found you such an easy prey" and after that complains to Hawke "She is the reason templars will come" - fucking hypocrite abomination, who can't even acknowledge it and yells at Merrill who doesn't deny what she does and lives just fine - a true real man (connard). Also, he didn't know many about the spirits from the Circle good point: as I wrote, healers use spirits to help them to heal, but those could also be disguising demons. Also Nathaniel encouraged justice to have a living host, and he says, he wouldn't consider him demon, if the host is willing Nathaniel knows nothing about this, who cares what he says? Interestng to hear Nathaniel after he could see that Anders-abomination. Wynne thought she's an abomination as well Wynne is an abomination. She is fortunate her spirit remained what it was. Together, we could remake Thedas into a world where justice rules, not fear and look what happened. Wasn't Justice by that time already a Demon, seducing Anders by things he wanted? in DAA Justice critisized others they should pay for their deeds: that elf-woman e.g., who killed innocent people like a complete bitch w/o any investigation, he always wanted to protect innocents and do good deeds (don't recruit him and he found a very good thing to do, w/o any advice). This doesn't stack with Justice-Anders in DA2. Justice changed his tactics: kill other to start a war? Blow up the chantry with innocents? And after that if he lives just watch from aside the results of his justice? They both were stupid thinking they could remake Thedas. All they did - kill many innocent people. It's not Justice, it a Demon. He finished his study, he's a harrowed mage. (Yes, the Harrowing is useful, isn't? NOT. It's just another torture, a twisted ritual – for nothing. That crazy ritual quite ruined Vivienne for example... She still didn't recover from it, and this isn' wonder, she was very young when she did.) Yeah-yeah, Harrowing is a torture. Thank you for reminding of that for 1000 time. A Harrowed mage means nothing - he is still a danger and attractive to demons. you did hear about the sarcasm? Yes. A pointless question. Irrelevant for the discussion. a very good example what terrible was the Circle it is the only place where mages can live w/o being killed on the spot and the only place for blood-thisty mage eager to burn the whole town. I don't deny the circle isn't a wonderful place, but it's the only place to keep the peace concerning mage-situation. 1. Anders dedicated himself to the cause of freedom of mages. The fact, he still ask for help, doesn't change that. Anders' not a hypocrite here. What he says to Merrill based on his own experience, and his beliefs. He doesn't like the demons, he refuse them. What is hard to him: to realize, there are just a little difference, demons are spirits as well. We also see it in the Fade, Justice makes difference between spirits and demons. And he considers himself as spirit. 2. Yes, Nathaniel's opinion is irrelevant – but an opinion of a non-mage – who fears the "demons" yes? Just a little interesting stuff. 3. Wynne and Anders are "abominations" according to the Chantry's term. Like the "apostates"... Just see bethany: she's a true Andrastian, to call her "apostate" is just grotesque. 4. Justice and Anders did what they have to do. And gave a chance to Thedas become a better place. He still Justice. He's not really changed. his conversation with Velanna explains Anders' manifestos as well: The second onecan beinterpreted on two way. The one is, that if they still don't get it, you shold leave the topic. (I don't think, Justice would accept it without act...) The second way: you did everything for peaceful resolution of problems ...
Also: Anders/Justice is the free healer of Darktown. Without Justice, Anders wouldn't be so dedicated. He says it to Isabela. That's not too far from his nature (If the Warden let him go in the Vigil's keep, he comes back to help...), but he was not so persistent in duty and so altruist...
5. About Harrowing is unnecessary cruel torture. Yes, i believe. And you also proved me: many of the known "Abominations" and Abominations are harrowed mages.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 7, 2020 14:44:12 GMT
Well, then you won't like me, because I'm honest and gay don't be absurd! I don't care about such things at all. I meant the last part. The thing IS - your comments seemed aggressive to me. So what? I should just stay shy/humble/etc? If that't your opinion - what's the point of further discussion then? (if you even want it at all). If don't want - then just say it, SVP. In that case I just won't make comments to your posts. With respect. Man, so many agression today....
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Post by Sonya on Jan 7, 2020 14:54:35 GMT
Sorry, Catilina. Would gladly contiue discussion, but beeing harrassed from every side. Can't write a thing w/o being insulted or getting an angry comment. I am being forced to withdraw myself it seems. Good-part of the day for now.
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Post by Rouccoco on Jan 7, 2020 15:13:08 GMT
don't be absurd! I don't care about such things at all. I meant the last part. I didn't intend to make my posts sound aggressive and I had no problem continuing this discussion. But since you called my points garbage and me a coward (and Catilina's posts "fucked up"), I've lost all interest. So bye.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 7, 2020 15:21:43 GMT
Sorry, Catilina . Would gladly contiue discussion, but beeing harrassed from every side. Can't write a thing w/o being insulted or getting an angry comment. I am being forced to withdraw myself it seems. Good-part of the day for now. I'm sorry if you feel harrassd, but this is a romance topic. I'm gladly argue with you and anyone else, but Anders got so many hatred, that I also see the reason to keep his romance topic a place, where we can speak and argue about his personality and his reasons without hear "he shoud die", "he's irredemable", "better him to die", "he should know, hes a damgerous monster, who can't control himself", "Anders (and Justice) lost hiself anymore, just a monster, should be killed", "dumb", "crazy", "extremist" etc, etc, etc... Believe me: we heard those so much times. Anders/Justice's' character is great, I know we can explain in many ways, and that's also great! I also know, that the rivalmance exists.... but many of us uncomfortable with it. You first comment was that you would never romance, and always kill him, also dislike him, and you think, the rivalry is the best way to romance him. So yeah, it was a lot together and brought out the bitterness. Perhaps, your intention was not like that, but given that you have declared, you would be strongly dislike him, you would never romance him, i don't wonder, it seems like a provocation, in many eyes in a romance topic.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 7, 2020 15:42:58 GMT
I'm sorry if you feel harrassd, but this is a romance topic. I'm gladly argue with you and anyone else, but Anders got so many hatred, that I also see the reason to keep his romance topic a place, where we can speak and argue about his personality and his reasons without hear "he shoud die", "he's irredemable", "better him to die", "he should know, hes a damgerous monster, who can't control himself", "Anders (and Justice) lost hiself anymore, just a monster, should be killed" etc, etc, etc... Believe me: we heard those so much times. Anders/Justice's' character is great, I know we can explain in many ways, and that's also great! I also know, that the rivalmance exists.... but many of us uncomfortable with it. You first comment was that you would never romance, and always kill him, also dislike him, and you think, the rivalry is the best way to romance him. So yeah, it was a lot together and brought out the bitterness. Perhaps, your intention was not like that, but given that you have declared, you would be strongly dislike him, you would never romance him, idon't wonder, it seems like a provocation, in many eyes in a romance topic. OK, let's distract from Anders for a bit. What should a person write if not his own opinion? Lie about something? I know my style of communication leaves much to be desired (even in real life people try to avoide me), but I am not a child already. Back to Anders: if I think that a character deserves this or that - I just write it in my usual manner. I know it's not soft or something, but it's my opinion about Anders - maybe rude, too strict etc ec etc. Turns out people don't like that, don't like to read an opinion of another person, even if it is opposite to their. Turns out such likes as me shouldn't write (as well as talk) at all not to offensd someone?
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jan 7, 2020 15:47:29 GMT
in order to cheer things up, I found this fan art just now and found it adorable also, as an apology, I love Anders as a character, the fact he can make you love (or hate) him is amazing I'll probably never get around to actually loving him in a "I want to romance him" kind of way (I've tried, but he never really clicks for me)
and I may not agree with all of his methods, but I think that's what makes his character so incredible
and now for the fan-art Anders wearing cat pun t-shirts ('cause imo. he's the type who'd own dozens of them)
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Post by Catilina on Jan 7, 2020 15:54:43 GMT
I'm sorry if you feel harrassd, but this is a romance topic. I'm gladly argue with you and anyone else, but Anders got so many hatred, that I also see the reason to keep his romance topic a place, where we can speak and argue about his personality and his reasons without hear "he shoud die", "he's irredemable", "better him to die", "he should know, hes a damgerous monster, who can't control himself", "Anders (and Justice) lost hiself anymore, just a monster, should be killed" etc, etc, etc... Believe me: we heard those so much times. Anders/Justice's' character is great, I know we can explain in many ways, and that's also great! I also know, that the rivalmance exists.... but many of us uncomfortable with it. You first comment was that you would never romance, and always kill him, also dislike him, and you think, the rivalry is the best way to romance him. So yeah, it was a lot together and brought out the bitterness. Perhaps, your intention was not like that, but given that you have declared, you would be strongly dislike him, you would never romance him, idon't wonder, it seems like a provocation, in many eyes in a romance topic. OK, let's distract from Anders for a bit. What should a person write if not his own opinion? Lie about something? I know my style of communication leaves much to be desired (even in real life people try to avoide me), but I am not a child already. Back to Anders: if I think that a character deserves this or that - I just write it in my usual manner. I know it's not soft or something, but it's my opinion about Anders - maybe rude, too strict etc ec etc. Turns out people don't like that, don't like to read an opinion of another person, even if it is opposite to their. Turns out such likes as me shouldn't write (as well as talk) at all not to offensd someone? Nothing wrong with different opinions. You said yours, and we answered with our opinions. I don't think we were more harsh, like you were, you said, you have a style... I also have one. I can ask the same thing as you: why would we agree with you?
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Post by Sonya on Jan 7, 2020 16:04:05 GMT
Nothing wrog with different opinions. You said, and we answered with out opinions. I don't think we were more harsh, like you were, you said, you have a style... I also have one. I can ask the same thing as you: why would we agree with you? you, for some reason, continue writing to me, look what happened with Rouccoco - has a character, lost interest because of what I had written (his harsh post). I can ask the same thing as you: why would we agree with you? That's the thing: I don't mind at all discuss this, even in a harsh manner (not insulting, but a little bit exciting manner is just fine). I don't mind at all that people don'tagree with me.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 8, 2020 11:03:59 GMT
I honestly don't know what you are getting at. If someone points out chantry bullshit, you appear to agree in principle. Then you commence to defend other chantry rubbish a few posts later? I might be missing something, but I honestly don't get it. Have written 2 other posts, but decided to delete them. But you wrote correctly - you are missing many things to make a right conclusion about my way of thinking - a dark forest, a dark chamber. If you are still interested I will try to clarify at least something from your posts as others are simply can't be read - a set of words w/o sentence structure. I don't defend the chantry: I hate the chantry, think it is full of bullshit, I think it it so corrupted and rooted so deeply that it would be almost impossible to get rid of its influence - maybe something can be done in DA4 with it, but I doubt that tbh. Don't know what even made you think I support the chantry. "Abomination" is loaded (chantry) language, nothing more, just like "Apostate" and other things that are meant to discredit any disagreement with established dogma. Of course it is kinda iffy when established in-universe monikers are basically just blunt insults. I tend to watch that language based on individual circumstances. Wynne does not wantonly destroy stuff, nor does her spirit take control of her or turn her into a mutated flesh heap, so she does not qualify as "an abomination" to me. Neither does Sigrid Guldsdotten for that matter. They are just possessed. Anders can easily qualify as an "abom", at the very least by Act 3. here admit - my mistake: I read some info about abominations, but clearly not very attentive. If the Harrowing means nothing, why keeping it then? Ask those who conduct them, I don't supoort it. It's useless as I have written. Yes. But why not focus on the brainwashing part then? aka Get. Rid. Of. The. Chantry. Yes indeed. Can get started. Can't answer the rest of your posts for the mentioned reason - a set on words w/o structure. Hope at least some things about thing became clear. I didn't intend to make my posts sound aggressive and I had no problem continuing this discussion. But since you called my points garbage and me a coward (and Catilina's posts "fucked up"), I've lost all interest. So bye. didn't intend but they were agressive,as well as one of my posts seemed to you agressive (you wrote English is not your native), but my post wasn't so and I just apologized + other examples. Since you even didn't want to figure some things out about mentioned matters and decided to cut a member out of the discussion right away, adieu as well.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 8, 2020 11:22:28 GMT
but it have to start somewhere yes, I agree. But as I see it - people are already brainwashed, as history showns us it takes a very long time for people to accept something new: there are alway riots, unhappy, exptimists etc etc. There is blood on both sides, and only then, if a society is lucky, reforms are accepted, but with many costs, much blood from both sides, with many deaths. So the question is: do you agree with such way of things to achieve that goal of yours? About Harrowing is unnecessary cruel torture. Yes, i believe. And you also proved me: many of the known "Abominations" and Abominations are harrowed mages. I think it is useless anyway. It was one of my first thought when I played a mage.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 8, 2020 12:05:47 GMT
Again: Fiona was tricked by Alexius. She was outraged, when it came out what is his real plan. Shit situation, but Fiona isn't moron Fiona shouldn't even have spoken to ALexius at all. That's her grave mistake with the following outcome. What about the templars who followed a demon and attacked innocents, abused the citizens, instead of their "sacred duty" to protect people? I wrote it already: templars are no better. Some of them knew about red lyrium but did NOTHING at all. A templar who punched that chantry woman doesn't matter she told bullshit), but Barris did nothing; they just folowed their leader w/o questions and paid the price dollowing a demon. And because of that war thug templars and mages attacked innocents, caught in the crossfire. That's what I don't like at all. What I like about DAI (even if it's not my favorite game in DAT) - unlike DAO and DA2 you don't have to side with the circle or the templar order as there are no circles and templar order anymore. You just need people with powers to close the breach. And your desicions in DAI don't matter at all: free union/prisoners/yelling - it matters nothing at all even if devs want to show it matters at least something. Frustrating. The first of them was about that some mages and Templars want to live in peace. I thought it was clear, sorry if not. OK, thanks. As I said - I really sometimes don't inderstand what you mean as there are many-many words in a pile. Sorry, if I expressed it in a rude manner (fucked up I mean). The rest - sounds like a fairy-tale, which one can wait to happen for a long time (because of the reasons I mentioned - "history-topic"). The second was about, that Bethany "lied" or not in her letter, and she was safe in the Circle or not – and how my Hawke interpreted the whole situation Hhmm. I see. As I wrote - prefer truth instead of lie for the sake of someone's peace.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 8, 2020 13:34:28 GMT
Sonya Yes. As I said, the little steps can be vanished easily in such a system. Reforms are reversible. The execution always depends on someone's whim. Not mentioned, the reforms also can cause war: as we experienced, Justinia (in Asunder) just investigated the "cure" the Tranquility, and the Seekers with the Templars started a war... Every change is risky, so yes, I support the radical one. Normally yes. Normally Bethany as well. But now, she decided to protect her family (Hawke, Leandra) from the truth. What if she writes, she's in danger? Leandra fall in panic, Hawke perhaps tears out some Templar's throat. Probably this is what from Bethany tried to protect them.
Bethany: So, you were in the Circle and ran away. I don't know if I'd be brave enough to do that. Anders: You've been an apostate your whole life. Bethany: Exactly. It was never anything I had to work for. Other people always took the risks, to keep me free.
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jan 8, 2020 14:02:27 GMT
Yes. As I said, the little steps can be vanished easily in such a system. Reforms are reversible. The execution always depends on someone's whim. Not mentioned, the reforms also can cause war: as we experienced, Justinia (in Asunder) just investigated the "cure" the Tranquility, and the Seekers with the Templars started a war... Every change is risky, so yes, I support the radical one. To think of that...actually...yeah. No world changes happen w/o blood. Make people accept christianity whether they like it or nor. Don't want? - death. Any revolution - dead ones everywhere, Country expansion, WW1/2 - becauase of simple "want more lands" - lots of deaths. Each word change = lots of death. Real world/games = it's all the same - sufferings, blood and death. It is clearly worth to fight for your cause; just make sure the result is what you wanted, not a mess, left after bloodbath. Normally yes. Normally Bethany as well. But now, she decided to protect her family (Hawke, Leandra) from the truth. What if she writes, she's in danger? Leandra fall in panic, Hawke perhaps tears out some Templar's throat. Probably this is what from Bethany tried to protect them. If you put it that way, then the war in Kirkwall could have happenned sooner. Why not? Hawke would have support anyway (mages or templars + friends + Hawke's mother could have been alive in that case.
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Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 8, 2020 14:19:41 GMT
Yes. As I said, the little steps can be vanished easily in such a system. Reforms are reversible. The execution always depends on someone's whim. Not mentioned, the reforms also can cause war: as we experienced, Justinia (in Asunder) just investigated the "cure" the Tranquility, and the Seekers with the Templars started a war... Every change is risky, so yes, I support the radical one. To think of that...actually...yeah. No world changes happen w/o blood. Make people accept christianity whether they like it or nor. Don't want? - death. Any revolution - dead ones everywhere, Country expansion, WW1/2 - becauase of simple "want more lands" - lots of deaths. Each word change = lots of death. Real world/games = it's all the same - sufferings, blood and death. It is clearly worth to fight for your cause; just make sure the result is what you wanted, not a mess, left after bloodbath. Normally yes. Normally Bethany as well. But now, she decided to protect her family (Hawke, Leandra) from the truth. What if she writes, she's in danger? Leandra fall in panic, Hawke perhaps tears out some Templar's throat. Probably this is what from Bethany tried to protect them. If you put it that way, then the war in Kirkwall could have happenned sooner. Why not? Hawke would have support anyway (mages or templars + friends + Hawke's mother could have been alive in that case. So: if anyone want changes,is wrong, because the change can cause bloodsheed? As I said: Justinia's investigation – not even any change!– caused a war. Every little change can, risks are everywhere, where interests and views can strike... so nobody ever had to change anything – just to avoid the risk...
You know. I know. Bethany doesn't know. She just thinks, in this way, she's able to protect them. She think, she's a burden on her family.
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inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jan 8, 2020 14:38:44 GMT
So: if anyone want changes,is wrong, because the change can cause bloodsheed? no, that is a statement that means "Bloodbath is inevitable usually if you want to change the world" (+ I gave some examples above). You maybe misunderstood me? She think, she's a burden on her family. Yeah, I understand it. I've heard PB as well. And that's why she decided it's better to die during DR trip instead of becoming a GW and use her magic w/o any fear, use magic to protect others, use magic for the greater good. It's a part why I don't like Beth so much and prefer Carver.
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Scribbles
185
0
Apr 20, 2024 10:24:31 GMT
30,241
Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 8, 2020 14:39:30 GMT
Yes. As I said, the little steps can be vanished easily in such a system. Reforms are reversible. The execution always depends on someone's whim. Not mentioned, the reforms also can cause war: as we experienced, Justinia (in Asunder) just investigated the "cure" the Tranquility, and the Seekers with the Templars started a war... Every change is risky, so yes, I support the radical one. To think of that...actually...yeah. No world changes happen w/o blood. Make people accept christianity whether they like it or nor. Don't want? - death. Any revolution - dead ones everywhere, Country expansion, WW1/2 - becauase of simple "want more lands" - lots of deaths. Each word change = lots of death. Real world/games = it's all the same - sufferings, blood and death. It is clearly worth to fight for your cause; just make sure the result is what you wanted, not a mess, left after bloodbath. Non-violent revolutions and movements are actually far more successful than violent ones, but let’s not have pesky facts get in the way.
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inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jan 8, 2020 14:45:42 GMT
Non-violent revolutions and movements are actually far more successful than violent one Stating the obvious,. My example refered to another statements. but let’s not have pesky facts get in the way let't pesky facts get in the way. Will be more productive discussion.
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inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 8, 2020 14:47:40 GMT
To think of that...actually...yeah. No world changes happen w/o blood. Make people accept christianity whether they like it or nor. Don't want? - death. Any revolution - dead ones everywhere, Country expansion, WW1/2 - becauase of simple "want more lands" - lots of deaths. Each word change = lots of death. Real world/games = it's all the same - sufferings, blood and death. It is clearly worth to fight for your cause; just make sure the result is what you wanted, not a mess, left after bloodbath. Non-violent revolutions and movements are actually far more successful than violent ones, but let’s not have pesky facts get in the way. They also cause bloodsheed, just not directly: for example before the success, because of the slowness... but another ways as well.
Also: BE FUCKING NICE HERE!
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inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 20, 2024 10:24:31 GMT
30,241
Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 8, 2020 14:47:59 GMT
Non-violent revolutions and movements are actually far more successful than violent one Stating the obvious,. My example refered to another statements. but let’s not have pesky facts get in the way let't pesky facts get in the way. Will be more productive discussion. The discussion I read said changes can’t be done without the side wanting them using violent means. So I was pointing out that not only is that not true but the violent means are less successful than nonviolent ones.
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inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jan 8, 2020 14:57:34 GMT
The discussion I read said changes can’t be done without the side wanting them using violent means. So I was pointing out that not only is that not true but the violent means are less successful than nonviolent ones. that's true as well. Violent or non-violent means - they both can have unpredictable results. But the main question: how do you know what is better and what actually brings results you want? You can't know the future, only analyse some fact and act according to them, but it doesn't mean at all that you could be right in your calculations as you decide the fate of the whole world full of brainwashed people, lots of institutions that need reforms, you have to deal with politics and angry mob. There are many things and your actions influence them all. The results of your methods - violent or no - you'll see in the end. And in both cases in can be a disaster or end up well.
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inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 8, 2020 14:57:52 GMT
So: if anyone want changes,is wrong, because the change can cause bloodsheed? no, that is a statement that means "Bloodbath is inevitable usually if you want to change the world" (+ I gave some examples above). You maybe misunderstood me? She think, she's a burden on her family. Yeah, I understand it. I've heard PB as well. And that's why she decided it's better to die during DR trip instead of becoming a GW and use her magic w/o any fear, use magic to protect others, use magic for the greater good. It's a part why I don't like Beth so much and prefer Carver. Yes, probably then I misunderstood.
I love Bethany as well, but it's fact, she tend to be "martyr". I don't like her reaction, if Hawke at the Templar side doesn't let Meredith to kill, her, she asks, she deserved it? And hugs Hawke... It just... But because I would never do that, I just enjoyed, how revolutionary can be, if Hawke let her, supports her.
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