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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 11, 2019 16:29:57 GMT
I know 3 things and that's that DICE and Bioware are EAs bigger acolytes along with their "sports" casino simulator conglomerate. I don't think they will fire to kill that easy when it comes to these ones. However, things are not looking bright for BW right now. And there's a precedent for EA shutting down companies on the middle of other projects, so they working on DA4 is not their saving grace either. Even then, I can't really say for sure if this is it. or become another target for the internet to hate on It's simple, and they just haven't noticed yet after all these years, and after all the other companies making the same mistakes: You make a shit game, people are gonna shit on you. Everyone, youtubers, streamers, players. People are gonna shit on you. They need to finally understand this. I can count with one hand probably the number of people willing to give free passes to these companies, and BW wasn't on a good position to begin with. It is how it is, this is the time we're living in, when people express their opinions far more than they used to back then, there're way more tools to do so and they have the freedom to do it.
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Post by jclosed on Mar 11, 2019 16:30:09 GMT
Let me first say that I personally do not care one bit for Anthem as game. When I first learned about the setting, I thought it would be a game like Elex (game by Piranha Bytes). While that game did not make great scores, it at least (maybe surprisingly) scored better by Critic and User reviews than Anthem.
The moment I learned that game would be multiplayer with a tacked-on singleplayer-ish bit, I already lost 80% of my interest, and when I learned it would be a "game-as-service" kind of thing, I lost the remaining 20%, and got a really bad feeling about it. However, these are all just personal preferences that got in the way.
While I did not had any interest in the game, I somehow hoped it would do at least a bit better than it has now. However, I felt a bit schizophrenic about it - At one hand I did not wanted it to fail, but at the other hand I did not wanted it to succeed and let the concept of the game (multiplayer game as service) to "infect" the other games like Dragon Age and (what remains of) Mass effect. If the game would be a huge success the next Dragon Age would be at risk to become also a "multiplayer Game As Service" piece of junk, but if the game would be a huge failure there would be a big chance there would not be a next Dragon Age at all.
So - While I do not care much about Anthem, I DO care about Dragon Age. An I am hugely worried about what form and quality that games is going to be. Will Bioware survive? I really don't know. For now I think they will. But if not, there are at least some other publishers like Falcom (Trails series, Ys series, Tokyo Xanadu Ex+), CDPR (Witcher series and upcoming Cyberpunk), and a few more ones, that fill my need for good RPG/JRPG single player games.
What will happen? Like I said - I cannot tell. I have a very double feeling about this, and I am nearing the point that I do not care any longer. And that's a shame....
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 11, 2019 16:32:55 GMT
I honestly don't know. I hope not but it's really tough to predict what EA will do.. 'Cause here is the thing. It did take me a while but (especially with the DLCs) I do really like DA:I. ME:A was BW's weakest game so far but despite that when compared to the over all gaming landscape it is still a ver fun game (replaying it right now). Especially if what we heard about its troubled development is true, it is quite the achievement that they got that much together. Anthem is overall a disappointment for the masses apparently but I never really expected much of it to start with, so as far as I am concerned, well, it actually did better as an SP title than I expected, so there's that. I can't really be let down by something that I fully expected to be medicore at best in the first place. In fact, I am surprised so many here act so surprised about the bad reception. Did anyone really believe the combination of SP-like story telling and coop focused gameplay would really work super well and that a developer who only had experience with rather tacked on MP modes in the past would suddenly program a revolutionary MMO style game without hiccups? From what I saw, both here in the forums and in the general online gaming sphere, Anthem was at best eyed skeptically by most people before release and rightly so. So in the end, yes, BioWare has fallen a long way in the past 7-8 years but even then, while they were in free fall, they started so high that their more recent games were still good (at least the SP ones) and to be honest, we don't have too many devs out there to make grand epic cRPGs like they do. It would be shame to loose them on that front. I would want them them to either bounce back (ideally) or to at the very least deliver one more game on their way to rock bottom. That game would be DA4. And if they haven't understood by now that the only thing that has a chance to restore confidence in them by both their audience and the critics is a truly amazing story and character driven SP game, well, then who cares if they put out anther 5 GaaS titles or not. That's not why I'd want them to survive.
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 11, 2019 16:40:05 GMT
Looking back, ME3MP was the only pleasant surprise since 2007. It wasn't made by the main studio either. It seems as though EA agreed with me which is why Montreal got MEA. Problem is that the studio didn't have SP or Frostbite experience. They were the wrong studio for the job. Same here, funny because I was against MP at first. Turned out to be more fun than the SP. Here's the thing however, that same team made Andromeda, and Andromeda's MP, and it was the biggest piece of garbage ever. Even after the handful of patches they released it still isn't nearly as good of a multiplayer as ME3MP is. How can the same team do the same things so different is beyond me.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 11, 2019 16:42:44 GMT
Maybe I'm weird, but I thought Bioware's main studio was "diagnosed as terminally ill" with ME2. When the game started with Shep's contrived death, the shoehorning with Cerberus and the general meandering with the main plot, I was positive the Bioware of old was dead. Looking back, ME3MP was the only pleasant surprise since 2007. It wasn't made by the main studio either. It seems as though EA agreed with me which is why Montreal got MEA. Problem is that the studio didn't have SP or Frostbite experience. They were the wrong studio for the job. I thought I’d be the only person on the planet that felt this way. Playing Mass Effect 2 for the first time made me feel more “what the fuck??” than anything else because the plot pacing felt so duct-taped together, it initially didn’t make much sense to me. Took at least another playthrough or two before I had full comprehension. And you’re right, Mass Effect 3’s multiplayer was a big surprise. It was far from perfect and had its own bugs to deal with, but still somehow managed to be engaging. And it was Bioware Montreal’s work - pretty crazy IMO. Yep. ME2 marks the change from creating interesting and engaging worlds to making ‘rule of cool’.
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Post by Steelcan on Mar 11, 2019 17:06:48 GMT
I voted that they have one more shot, but that seems to have been a common refrain, BW had one more shot after ME3, then they had one more shot after ME:A, and now they have one more shot after Anthem.
I fear that BioWare will not be taken out back behind the shed but rather that they will be made irrelevant. You don't need to look far to see games and series that have collapses under the weight of chasing trends, and I feel that BioWare is more likely to join those ranks than to be dismantled entirely.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Mar 11, 2019 17:08:54 GMT
Really? I think it's GAAS that will rescue Anthem and when DA4 launches, GAAS will keep DA4 relevant. How so? GaaS is the reason there is so little content. I don’t see what positives it brings to the table as far as consumers go. It’s a monetization scheme. Adding content over time has been cited in the past but that means nothing to me. Adding content that was or should have been there at launch is not an appealing factor. Minimum viable product adds nothing for consumers. If they stripped stuff out of a game in order to deliver it in drips and drabs over time as incentive to players to keep playing and paying, this is not an attractive feature for consumers. I don’t want DA 4 to be ‘relevant’. Not sure what you mean. I want it to be a good and complete story. Same here. If DA4 is like Anthem I'm going to be approaching it with a big stick and some armour... I want a complete game that I buy in one package, done up with a bow and perhaps coming with story DLCs down the line. A gem of a game that I can revisit when I please, no updates or add ons or stores. Jane Austen didn't keep the last chapter of Pride and Prejudice as a DLC to be read 6 months later, making the reader wait to see if Darcy and Lizzie got married or not. She didn't include a bonus chapter of the honeymoon, only available for those who bought the first 200 copies....why the fuck can't games just be fully created and completed creative works anymore?
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Post by cypherj on Mar 11, 2019 17:13:08 GMT
I doubt it. I think EA would remake Anthem like SE did Final Fantasy XIV before the give up on it. They were always looking at Anthem as a much longer term investment. So, I doubt Bioware is going to die off.
Individual IPs may die off. I'm worried that we may not get another ME game. If Drgaon Age does well I think they would keep that one going.
I think the Old 'Mom and Pop' version of Bioware has been dead for some time though. Replaced by the 'franchised' version of Bioware. We as players may have to change the criteria of what qualifies as a Bioware game.
As for Anthem itself, Final Fantasy XIV to me at least was in much worse shape than Anthem at launch, and turned out to be a great game after the changes. By 'in much worse shape', I mean that its issues were not bugs, content, story related. I had content, a normal FF story, and not a lot of bugs. It just wasn't fun to play, and had more issues with the core design of almost everything. Anthem is not that bad off. I think more of the issue is that they kept more out of the game to sell back to players than they left in at launch.
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Post by Mobius Y on Mar 11, 2019 17:14:52 GMT
How so? GaaS is the reason there is so little content. I don’t see what positives it brings to the table as far as consumers go. It’s a monetization scheme. Adding content over time has been cited in the past but that means nothing to me. Adding content that was or should have been there at launch is not an appealing factor. Minimum viable product adds nothing for consumers. If they stripped stuff out of a game in order to deliver it in drips and drabs over time as incentive to players to keep playing and paying, this is not an attractive feature for consumers. I don’t want DA 4 to be ‘relevant’. Not sure what you mean. I want it to be a good and complete story. Same here. If DA4 is like Anthem I'm going to be approaching it with a big stick and some armour... I want a complete game that I buy in one package, done up with a bow and perhaps coming with story DLCs down the line. A gem of a game that I can revisit when I please, no updates or add ons or stores. Jane Austen didn't keep the last chapter or Pride and Prejudice as a DLC to be read 6 months later, making the reader wait to see if Darcy and Lizzie got married or not. She didn't include a bonus chapter of the honeymoon, only available for those who bought the first 200 copies....why the fuck can't games just be fully created and completed creative works anymore? Because
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Post by Blast Processor on Mar 11, 2019 17:16:59 GMT
Traditional story DLC is dead as far as EA is concerned. That's why Dragon Age is going the GaaS giant route.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 11, 2019 17:18:46 GMT
How so? GaaS is the reason there is so little content. I don’t see what positives it brings to the table as far as consumers go. It’s a monetization scheme. Adding content over time has been cited in the past but that means nothing to me. Adding content that was or should have been there at launch is not an appealing factor. Minimum viable product adds nothing for consumers. If they stripped stuff out of a game in order to deliver it in drips and drabs over time as incentive to players to keep playing and paying, this is not an attractive feature for consumers. I don’t want DA 4 to be ‘relevant’. Not sure what you mean. I want it to be a good and complete story. Same here. If DA4 is like Anthem I'm going to be approaching it with a big stick and some armour... I want a complete game that I buy in one package, done up with a bow and perhaps coming with story DLCs down the line. A gem of a game that I can revisit when I please, no updates or add ons or stores. Jane Austen didn't keep the last chapter or Pride and Prejudice as a DLC to be read 6 months later, making the reader wait to see if Darcy and Lizzie got married or not. She didn't include a bonus chapter of the honeymoon, only available for those who bought the first 200 copies....why the fuck can't games just be fully created and completed creative works anymore? Lots of literature has come out initially in a "serial" form...first ones to come to mind is Dickens and Alexandre Dumas. GaaS is a essentially that, a serialized form of installment narrative that surrounds itself with other means of engagement until the next chapter drops. However, unlike the serialized stories in magazines, you a not paying for each installment, but getting them free to download as they come in. Honestly, I don't know if it will work but they are trying it regardless.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 11, 2019 17:19:01 GMT
Where’s the “1v1 me babby” option? I thought you thought the Thunderdrome was stupid.
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Post by bizantura on Mar 11, 2019 17:22:14 GMT
I wish today's Bioware all the best but it is a different studio with a familiar name.
After ME Andromeda for a time I had a rough patch finding something to play that gave me pleasure. One can only play one's owned library for so long. I am thankful for the great games Bioware produced but today for me it doesn't matter if they make DA4 or not. It took a while but I have moved on and not expecting much from them, the creative drain seems too massive and frankly times have changed. Political agenda's are more important than creative story-telling.
EA made it clear they are not interested in SP and that was Bioware's bread and butter. EA can "maybe" let Bioware make a cheap copy of Ubisoft's life service of their SP franshise but I think it is too little too late.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 11, 2019 17:23:25 GMT
Where’s the “1v1 me babby” option? I thought you thought the Thunderdrome was stupid. it is! So is this forum :cuckoo:
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Post by Mobius Y on Mar 11, 2019 17:24:20 GMT
Where’s the “1v1 me babby” option? I thought you thought the Thunderdrome was stupid. I do. You can still 1v1 me somewhere else. Ya babby.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 11, 2019 17:27:52 GMT
An abomination likeanthem won’t help. Guess we’ll see if dragon age happens and if it’s not butchered by live service requirements
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 11, 2019 17:30:18 GMT
Same here. If DA4 is like Anthem I'm going to be approaching it with a big stick and some armour... I want a complete game that I buy in one package, done up with a bow and perhaps coming with story DLCs down the line. A gem of a game that I can revisit when I please, no updates or add ons or stores. Jane Austen didn't keep the last chapter or Pride and Prejudice as a DLC to be read 6 months later, making the reader wait to see if Darcy and Lizzie got married or not. She didn't include a bonus chapter of the honeymoon, only available for those who bought the first 200 copies....why the fuck can't games just be fully created and completed creative works anymore? Lots of literature has come out initially in a "serial" form...first ones to come to mind is Dickens and Alexandre Dumas. GaaS is a essentially that, a serialized form of installment narrative that surrounds itself with other means of engagement until the next chapter drops. However, unlike the serialized stories in magazines, you a not paying for each installment, but getting them free to download as they come in. Honestly, I don't know if it will work but they are trying it regardless. The difference is they didn't charge up front for a novel.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Mar 11, 2019 17:30:28 GMT
Same here. If DA4 is like Anthem I'm going to be approaching it with a big stick and some armour... I want a complete game that I buy in one package, done up with a bow and perhaps coming with story DLCs down the line. A gem of a game that I can revisit when I please, no updates or add ons or stores. Jane Austen didn't keep the last chapter or Pride and Prejudice as a DLC to be read 6 months later, making the reader wait to see if Darcy and Lizzie got married or not. She didn't include a bonus chapter of the honeymoon, only available for those who bought the first 200 copies....why the fuck can't games just be fully created and completed creative works anymore? Lots of literature has come out initially in a "serial" form...first ones to come to mind is Dickens and Alexandre Dumas. GaaS is a essentially that, a serialized form of installment narrative that surrounds itself with other means of engagement until the next chapter drops. However, unlike the serialized stories in magazines, you a not paying for each installment, but getting them free to download as they come in. Honestly, I don't know if it will work but they are trying it regardless. If the quality of the first instalment was as good as the literary equivalents, and it didn't cost full price for only a portion of the content, I'd be more willing to try. But it's not a format that suits every genre or video game....however I think the suits are ignoring that. It was fine for The Walking Dead, however the gaps were too long between some of the chapters. I just waited for it all to be done and bought it as one game, which is honestly what I always end up doing with things like this. Which means instead of getting a full payment out of me, the publishers get me buying their game 10 months later for 50% off.
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Post by bizantura on Mar 11, 2019 17:33:34 GMT
In hindsight when Bioware closed their official forum marks for me the shift from the ending of the old Bioware in transit to today's Bioware.
With a lot of energy from fans, this forum was created and thriving, unlike Bioware. Ironic in a sense!
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 11, 2019 17:39:33 GMT
I honestly think the “failure” of Anthem is dramatically overstated.
Yes, it launched in a lamentable state but the positivity of the developers responding to concerns about performance and the prospect of closure has assuaged my own concerns (I doubt they would respond at all otherwise). I suspect that Anthem did sufficiently well on preorders that EA is pleased in the short term.
How things play out from here will be down to Bioware’s responsiveness.
I also think EA is having trouble filling it’s launch schedule with games given the switch to a smaller Star Wars game for their Vancouver studio for 2020, so they’ll be hesitant to shut down production of a proven franchise like DA.
In short, I’m not terribly worried.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 11, 2019 17:45:37 GMT
How so? GaaS is the reason there is so little content. I don’t see what positives it brings to the table as far as consumers go. It’s a monetization scheme. Adding content over time has been cited in the past but that means nothing to me. Adding content that was or should have been there at launch is not an appealing factor. Minimum viable product adds nothing for consumers. If they stripped stuff out of a game in order to deliver it in drips and drabs over time as incentive to players to keep playing and paying, this is not an attractive feature for consumers. I don’t want DA 4 to be ‘relevant’. Not sure what you mean. I want it to be a good and complete story. Same here. If DA4 is like Anthem I'm going to be approaching it with a big stick and some armour... I want a complete game that I buy in one package, done up with a bow and perhaps coming with story DLCs down the line. A gem of a game that I can revisit when I please, no updates or add ons or stores. Jane Austen didn't keep the last chapter of Pride and Prejudice as a DLC to be read 6 months later, making the reader wait to see if Darcy and Lizzie got married or not. She didn't include a bonus chapter of the honeymoon, only available for those who bought the first 200 copies....why the fuck can't games just be fully created and completed creative works anymore? Have you had a look at comic franchises? They pretty much try to milk a running franchise with all they can.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Mar 11, 2019 17:47:07 GMT
Same here. If DA4 is like Anthem I'm going to be approaching it with a big stick and some armour... I want a complete game that I buy in one package, done up with a bow and perhaps coming with story DLCs down the line. A gem of a game that I can revisit when I please, no updates or add ons or stores. Jane Austen didn't keep the last chapter of Pride and Prejudice as a DLC to be read 6 months later, making the reader wait to see if Darcy and Lizzie got married or not. She didn't include a bonus chapter of the honeymoon, only available for those who bought the first 200 copies....why the fuck can't games just be fully created and completed creative works anymore? Have you had a look at comic franchises? They pretty much try to milk a running franchise with all they can. Next thing you'll know they'll be making a load of movies and milking that too....
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 11, 2019 17:48:49 GMT
Lots of literature has come out initially in a "serial" form...first ones to come to mind is Dickens and Alexandre Dumas. GaaS is a essentially that, a serialized form of installment narrative that surrounds itself with other means of engagement until the next chapter drops. However, unlike the serialized stories in magazines, you a not paying for each installment, but getting them free to download as they come in. Honestly, I don't know if it will work but they are trying it regardless. The difference is they didn't charge up front for a novel. Cost is relative to the content though...how long have games been $60? If you pay $60 now, do you get 1 year's worth of content? 2 years? The entire supposed 10 year plan? It has yet to be determined. They say "beginning of a 10 years journey" but I imagine the initial purchase will be supplemented somehow besides the shard economy but we'll see. Not saying it's a great plan and we won't know until story's conclusion (if we get there) whether it was worth it.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 11, 2019 17:50:23 GMT
Have you had a look at comic franchises? They pretty much try to milk a running franchise with all they can. Next thing you'll know they'll be making a load of movies and milking that too.... Or TV shows.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 11, 2019 17:52:22 GMT
Next thing you'll know they'll be making a load of movies and milking that too.... Or TV shows. Some dumbass company will probably even try to make a Netflix competitor with comic and Star Wars content.
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