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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 12, 2019 23:33:59 GMT
Do something like the dragon age keep. Yes this wouldn't be able to fix the endings or do enough to make each one distinct. However it could help us with previous characters and the decisions we made for species. If we had the quarians die for example at their homeworld we could see very few quarians and have them be the last of their species and number in the thouasands rather then the millions since the flotilla was wiped out. We could have wrex be in charge or not and so on and so on. SO what do you think would a dragon age keep for mass effect fix alot of stuff.
And again I know it wouldn't fix the endings or the fact that they would need one to be made cannon or go WAY in the future or something.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 14, 2019 20:37:30 GMT
Well,, that wouldn't really get "around" them though, it would just use them.
Given that I felt ME3 was already struggling to properly incorporate all the decisions from the earlier games, I thought that going to Andromeda for the next game was actually a pretty smart move. Not necessarily the way it was executed but the concept was a good one. Also, don't get me wrong, I think they did a fantastic job in ME3, way more than I ever expected, just saying, you can feel the strain it took on development when you play, just from the amount of autodialgue and fewer options, characters that had fewer lines than one would expect, etc.. I am afraid that same baggage could weigh down a future game even more.
So I think if they were to take decisions of the previous games into account in any way, shape or form, it really should just be the broad strokes and then even there, I wouldn't begrudge them if the consequences were fairly limited, kinda like Dragon Age did it and also kinda like you suggest for the quarians for example (there are still some around, just fewer but all the main characters are still there or something). However, I am not sure others would see it the same. I've already read many forum posts where people expressed dismay at the prosepect of ME trilogy decisions (especially the big ME3 ones) being watered down. And I get that to some extent, even though I wouldn't mind much.
But then, honestly I wouldn't mind them just choosing a canon or even making another game in Andromeda (provided that we are through the worst of the bullshit now). In principle, I just want a nice new game that is somewhat consistent and coherent with whatever initial setup they choose to go with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 23:21:38 GMT
Who says the ME3 ending needs to be fixed?
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 27, 2019 15:10:45 GMT
Not "fixed" but since Shepard made a choice (or didn't) there's no way to have four endings at the same time. The OP was obviously discussing canon. Dragon Age Keep wouldn't work. Minor choices, yes, but something like making entirely new games for any possible ending? Sure, if you want to be charged $200 for the game.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 27, 2019 16:09:08 GMT
Not "fixed" but since Shepard made a choice (or didn't) there's no way to have four endings at the same time. The OP was obviously discussing canon. Dragon Age Keep wouldn't work. Minor choices, yes, but something like making entirely new games for any possible ending? Sure, if you want to be charged $200 for the game. I've said that for ages. Any post me3 game in the MW would no doubt need that to accommodate the endings.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 27, 2019 18:33:37 GMT
Not "fixed" but since Shepard made a choice (or didn't) there's no way to have four endings at the same time. The OP was obviously discussing canon. Dragon Age Keep wouldn't work. Minor choices, yes, but something like making entirely new games for any possible ending? Sure, if you want to be charged $200 for the game. I've said that for ages. Any post me3 game in the MW would no doubt need that to accommodate the endings. Yeah it would need to be a cannon ending. However in terms of the quarian/geth conflict or whether wrex survived and if shepard survived or if shep is the main character again who was his LI and which squadmates survived.
It wouldn't be perfect however it would help alot of our choices carry over. For me what I loved about mass effect was the little things that carried over Did you romance someopne in ME1 or even smaller things like having the rachni survive and meeting the asari at illium in ME2. It's not possible to make it perfect but I would like some little things.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 30, 2019 18:51:43 GMT
I've thought of ways to write around ME3's ending it isn't that hard. Half the task is just writing vague enough lore that can be interpreted as either of the endings being canon but nobody being sure. Then you employ another Catalyst/Crucible like device, built by some other great species and activated only after it detected the use of the Crucible, that was explicitly designed to counteract and nullify its effects. Once that is done, you tell more interesting stories about the galaxy recovering, rebuilding, and reshaping itself in the aftermath of the Reaper War.
The geth/quarian decision can be written around by having Rannoch's star go nova, which forced the geth/quarians to scatter to the winds. To survive some of them banded together but others remained independent, refusing to live together.
Regarding the genophage and the krogan... well if it could be deployed once it could be deployed again. It would make sense that the STG or somebody else would infect the krogan later regardless of what Shepard might have done.
As well the overwhelming destruction of the Reaper War would mean that there would be large gaps in information for the generations living afterward, so their recorded history of the events of the ME trilogy would be vague, allowing players to imagine that their play-through was canon.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 31, 2019 1:24:49 GMT
I've thought of ways to write around ME3's ending it isn't that hard. Half the task is just writing vague enough lore that can be interpreted as either of the endings being canon but nobody being sure. Then you employ another Catalyst/Crucible like device, built by some other great species and activated only after it detected the use of the Crucible, that was explicitly designed to counteract and nullify its effects. Once that is done, you tell more interesting stories about the galaxy recovering, rebuilding, and reshaping itself in the aftermath of the Reaper War. Kind of sounds interesting. Crucible A does its thing and takes out the Reaper, creating some undesirable side effects. Crucible B undoes the side effects but the Reapers are still gone. I agree, though, that there is plenty that could be done in the MW. Still want another MEA game but if that's not possible I'd like to see a follow-up with the Leviathan since the whole purpose of creating the Catalyst was to end the organic/synthetic wars so they could go back to extorting the galaxy for tribute.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 31, 2019 4:37:54 GMT
I've thought of ways to write around ME3's ending it isn't that hard. Half the task is just writing vague enough lore that can be interpreted as either of the endings being canon but nobody being sure. Then you employ another Catalyst/Crucible like device, built by some other great species and activated only after it detected the use of the Crucible, that was explicitly designed to counteract and nullify its effects. Once that is done, you tell more interesting stories about the galaxy recovering, rebuilding, and reshaping itself in the aftermath of the Reaper War.
The geth/quarian decision can be written around by having Rannoch's star go nova, which forced the geth/quarians to scatter to the winds. To survive some of them banded together but others remained independent, refusing to live together.
Regarding the genophage and the krogan... well if it could be deployed once it could be deployed again. It would make sense that the STG or somebody else would infect the krogan later regardless of what Shepard might have done.
As well the overwhelming destruction of the Reaper War would mean that there would be large gaps in information for the generations living afterward, so their recorded history of the events of the ME trilogy would be vague, allowing players to imagine that their play-through was canon.
A device nullifying the crucible effects? Nah. Just stay away from the MW to after Andromeda is done. Then go back and by then the effects might not be noticeable too much and subtle elements can be introduced for each ending.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 10:07:22 GMT
I've thought of ways to write around ME3's ending it isn't that hard. Half the task is just writing vague enough lore that can be interpreted as either of the endings being canon but nobody being sure. Then you employ another Catalyst/Crucible like device, built by some other great species and activated only after it detected the use of the Crucible, that was explicitly designed to counteract and nullify its effects. Once that is done, you tell more interesting stories about the galaxy recovering, rebuilding, and reshaping itself in the aftermath of the Reaper War.
The geth/quarian decision can be written around by having Rannoch's star go nova, which forced the geth/quarians to scatter to the winds. To survive some of them banded together but others remained independent, refusing to live together.
Regarding the genophage and the krogan... well if it could be deployed once it could be deployed again. It would make sense that the STG or somebody else would infect the krogan later regardless of what Shepard might have done.
As well the overwhelming destruction of the Reaper War would mean that there would be large gaps in information for the generations living afterward, so their recorded history of the events of the ME trilogy would be vague, allowing players to imagine that their play-through was canon.
Honestly, I don't see this as being very different from the "Genesis-like" comic I was suggesting on another thread. The basic principle is the same... write interim events starting from each ending that bring the galaxy to a single, consistent state over a period of time and then start the next ME game from that point. I was just leaving the specifics of those events up to Bioware to write rather than making suggestions like a second Crucible. There are numerous events that could happen that would do the trick.
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Post by sassafrassa on Apr 2, 2019 4:32:53 GMT
A device nullifying the crucible effects? Nah. Just stay away from the MW to after Andromeda is done. Then go back and by then the effects might not be noticeable too much and subtle elements can be introduced for each ending. Andromeda is bland and boring and almost nobody cares about it. Take me back to the Milky Way, please. In any case, what you proposed wouldn't be a solution to the "ME3 Ending Problem" anyway. We can't just jump ahead in time and then have no explanation at all.
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Post by sassafrassa on Apr 2, 2019 4:44:14 GMT
Honestly, I don't see this as being very different from the "Genesis-like" comic I was suggesting on another thread. The basic principle is the same... write interim events starting from each ending that bring the galaxy to a single, consistent state over a period of time and then start the next ME game from that point. I was just leaving the specifics of those events up to Bioware to write rather than making suggestions like a second Crucible. There are numerous events that could happen that would do the trick. I did skim your thread. The essence of my idea is to write as little as you can by using vague language. Bethesda tends to do this with The Elder Scrolls. References to past games are always in very general language that is light on details. It acknowledges events but never tells you precisely how they went down. It leaves the player wiggle room to insert their own personal experience from playing the previous game and imagine their experience is the real history of the current game. If it were totally up to me I'd just write this about the Reaper War and nothing more; "The Reapers were a race of sentient machines that harvested organic life in the Milky Way. XXXX years ago they went extinct after being defeated in a final conflict by Commander Shepard, a human hero who lead the galaxy in a united struggle against them. Reapers and their technology were powerful and many were those who sought to control the Reapers and use them to rule over their fellow organics. Still others desired to combine with them into a new form of life. The destruction of the Reaper War and dark and chaotic age that followed has clouded the details of that era. All we know is the Reapers are gone but that the galaxy today still bares the scars of the war against them; planets still in ruin, planets populated by strange beings that are both synthetic and organic." So you see that paragraph doesn't nail down any of the three final choices but it has wording and evidence that could support any of them. Perhaps Shepard picked Synthesis... but then there was at some point revolt and the process was undone in at least portions of the galaxy. This occurred during that dark age of chaos. Or perhaps Shepard chose Control and used the Reapers to rebuild for a time and/or disposed of some of them. It is likely that eventually this met with rebellion at some point too and the controlled Reapers were destroyed in another great galaxy-spanning war. Maybe, Shepard just choose Destroy and the Reapers were wiped out in one fell swoop, but in time some survivors managed to reverse engineer the Reaper's essence from their remains and use it for their own purposes. You could add in lines in the codex lore where scholars speculate about this... that what evidence there is of that era supports several different theories about precisely HOW Shepard stopped the Reapers and what the consequences were in the years afterwards. Then you just leave it at that and tell new stories, ideally stories that aren't about galaxy-ending threats. Tell stories about complex factions and their leaders and supporters.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 2, 2019 13:00:43 GMT
I did skim your thread. The essence of my idea is to write as little as you can by using vague language. Bethesda tends to do this with The Elder Scrolls. References to past games are always in very general language that is light on details. It acknowledges events but never tells you precisely how they went down. It leaves the player wiggle room to insert their own personal experience from playing the previous game and imagine their experience is the real history of the current game. If it were totally up to me I'd just write this about the Reaper War and nothing more; Bethesda did this better with TES but mainly because each game takes place in essentially another country. Nothing within was world-changing. As for FO, I don't know. They all appear to be separate continuities. MET wasn't given that option. Though it seemed like it was meant to be a complete ending for ME, there were also articles around saying that people ought to keep their saves. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if there weren't at least some idea of where they might be going, or how they were going to resolve the multiple endings.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 2, 2019 22:16:14 GMT
I did skim your thread. The essence of my idea is to write as little as you can by using vague language. Bethesda tends to do this with The Elder Scrolls. References to past games are always in very general language that is light on details. It acknowledges events but never tells you precisely how they went down. It leaves the player wiggle room to insert their own personal experience from playing the previous game and imagine their experience is the real history of the current game. If it were totally up to me I'd just write this about the Reaper War and nothing more; Bethesda did this better with TES but mainly because each game takes place in essentially another country. Nothing within was world-changing. As for FO, I don't know. They all appear to be separate continuities. MET wasn't given that option. Though it seemed like it was meant to be a complete ending for ME, there were also articles around saying that people ought to keep their saves. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if there weren't at least some idea of where they might be going, or how they were going to resolve the multiple endings. Keep their saves makes no sense however unless it was for the dlc since even if we get a sequel with shepard it won't be on the same console generation.
Now as for TES games and their vague decisions most weren't just in another country but they take place alot later. So yeah I agree it would be alot harder to do this with any game that is a sequel to the Mass effect trilogy in the milky way.
I think they should go back to the milky way but they are gonna have to choose an ending to go with as well as other decisions.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 3, 2019 14:21:23 GMT
A device nullifying the crucible effects? Nah. Just stay away from the MW to after Andromeda is done. Then go back and by then the effects might not be noticeable too much and subtle elements can be introduced for each ending. Andromeda is bland and boring and almost nobody cares about it. Take me back to the Milky Way, please. In any case, what you proposed wouldn't be a solution to the "ME3 Ending Problem" anyway. We can't just jump ahead in time and then have no explanation at all. Many enjoy Andromeda. Some dont and that's fine but many do. As to the ending issue my proposal would solve a lot.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 3, 2019 16:57:13 GMT
Bethesda did this better with TES but mainly because each game takes place in essentially another country. Nothing within was world-changing. As for FO, I don't know. They all appear to be separate continuities. Except for the ending of Daggerfall, where all of the endings happened at once, even though they are mutually exclusive. They can get away with this because non-rational mysticism is baked into the setting. (I was going to say "bullshit," but if I'm giving The OA a pass on this sort of thing, I ought to extend it to TES too.)
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 3, 2019 17:00:19 GMT
I've thought of ways to write around ME3's ending it isn't that hard. Half the task is just writing vague enough lore that can be interpreted as either of the endings being canon but nobody being sure. Then you employ another Catalyst/Crucible like device, built by some other great species and activated only after it detected the use of the Crucible, that was explicitly designed to counteract and nullify its effects. Once that is done, you tell more interesting stories about the galaxy recovering, rebuilding, and reshaping itself in the aftermath of the Reaper War.
The geth/quarian decision can be written around by having Rannoch's star go nova, which forced the geth/quarians to scatter to the winds. To survive some of them banded together but others remained independent, refusing to live together.
Regarding the genophage and the krogan... well if it could be deployed once it could be deployed again. It would make sense that the STG or somebody else would infect the krogan later regardless of what Shepard might have done.
As well the overwhelming destruction of the Reaper War would mean that there would be large gaps in information for the generations living afterward, so their recorded history of the events of the ME trilogy would be vague, allowing players to imagine that their play-through was canon.
A device nullifying the crucible effects? Nah. Just stay away from the MW to after Andromeda is done. Then go back and by then the effects might not be noticeable too much and subtle elements can be introduced for each ending. Does anyone think it's weird that people keep attempting to maintain continuity by blowing it up?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 19:17:49 GMT
A device nullifying the crucible effects? Nah. Just stay away from the MW to after Andromeda is done. Then go back and by then the effects might not be noticeable too much and subtle elements can be introduced for each ending. Does anyone think it's weird that people keep attempting to maintain continuity by blowing it up? Wasn't destruction of the galaxy something that Drew toyed with himself though?
There are several ways interim events could bring each ending to a similar state years down the road (or states with only subtle differences that could be mentioned based on the player's choices)... but people here don't seem to want Bioware to write those in any form. They'd prefer to blow up every other ending than their own preference (by making one canon) and go "nah, nah we chose right" to all the other fans who chose differently (I suppose)... ignoring the fact that Bioware has said repeatedly that they don't want to choose one.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 3, 2019 21:41:46 GMT
Don't know about the others. My personal take is that those proposals just don't feel narratively honest. They're cheats, and not particularly convincing ones. And since they exist to solve a problem I don't have in the first place, it's a hard pass from me.
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Post by brfritos on Apr 3, 2019 22:54:56 GMT
A device nullifying the crucible effects? Nah. Just stay away from the MW to after Andromeda is done. Then go back and by then the effects might not be noticeable too much and subtle elements can be introduced for each ending. Does anyone think it's weird that people keep attempting to maintain continuity by blowing it up?
Bioware did it in the beginning of ME2, so... why the hell fuck not?
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 4, 2019 16:34:59 GMT
Does anyone think it's weird that people keep attempting to maintain continuity by blowing it up?
Bioware did it in the beginning of ME2, so... why the hell fuck not? *cough*Cerberus*cough cough*
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Post by themikefest on Apr 5, 2019 14:51:27 GMT
I'd like to see a follow-up with the Leviathan since the whole purpose of creating the Catalyst was to end the organic/synthetic wars so they could go back to extorting the galaxy for tribute. I know you've mentioned that before. I'm just curious that if Leviathan were to be the next baddie, when would the game take place after the events of ME3?
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 5, 2019 16:47:12 GMT
I'd like to see a follow-up with the Leviathan since the whole purpose of creating the Catalyst was to end the organic/synthetic wars so they could go back to extorting the galaxy for tribute. I know you've mentioned that before. I'm just curious that if Leviathan were to be the next baddie, when would the game take place after the events of ME3? Within the next 10 years. They've got those orbs scattered all over the galaxy. We know their numbers weren't that great, at least within the MW, but I think it's possible there might be more in dark space.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 5, 2019 18:01:07 GMT
I know you've mentioned that before. I'm just curious that if Leviathan were to be the next baddie, when would the game take place after the events of ME3? Within the next 10 years. They've got those orbs scattered all over the galaxy. We know their numbers weren't that great, at least within the MW, but I think it's possible there might be more in dark space. Why I ask is because after the reapers are destroyed, Leviathan is in a spot they haven't been since they built the intelligence. They likely will observe what the galaxy will do as it rebuilds. They also know that Shepard and others know their location. They want to avoid doing anything that would attract any unwanted attention.
With one of my idea's for a sequel, Shepard visits Leviathan to ask them about darkspace to find out if they have any knowledge that might help since Shepard is headed there. Shepard mentions the reason why is because he/she wants to make sure the threat of the reapers is gone even though they were destroyed. This catches Leviathan's interest. The reapers are it's greatest threat. Having Shepard make sure they're no longer a threat works in Leviathan's favor.
One thing that isn't known is their numbers. Only 3 are seen. You mention more could be in darkspace. That would be interesting. I would be curious how they were able to survive for so long in darkspace.
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