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Post by alanc9 on Apr 6, 2019 0:30:51 GMT
That's why I specified "best".
Fun fact; I crunched the numbers and discovered that one of my Destroy Shepards only survived because he sabotaged the genophage cure.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 6, 2019 0:44:55 GMT
This is not correct. Without either MP or bonus points from the iOS app, before the EC getting the best Destroy ending was absolutely impossible. Simply not enough WA points available at base Readiness. This is also not correct. One could get the destroy ending even with very low EMS... just not the breath scene. Whether the player got Destroy or Control with low EMS was based on other decisions made in the game, but one or the other would be available to all players. Synthesis did not unlock until later, but it was still possible to get it before the EC. It was the breath scene and only the breath scene that could not be obtained without boosting Readiness. So then it IS canon.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 6, 2019 0:50:25 GMT
This is not correct. Without either MP or bonus points from the iOS app, before the EC getting the best Destroy ending was absolutely impossible. Simply not enough WA points available at base Readiness. This is also not correct. One could get the destroy ending even with very low EMS... just not the breath scene. Whether the player got Destroy or Control with low EMS was based on other decisions made in the game, but one or the other would be available to all players. Synthesis did not unlock until later, but it was still possible to get it before the EC. It was the breath scene and only the breath scene that could not be obtained without boosting Readiness. The only way someone can have destroy, if ems is below 1750, is to have destroyed the collector base in ME2. If a default ME3 playthrough, the game will assume the base has been destroyed.. If the player chose to save the base in ME2, control will be the only option, if ems is below 1750.
Before the cut was released, the player needed 4000 ems with Anderson not being shot by TIM to get the breath scene. There were not enough assets to get that number unless multiplayer was played or the player used the IOS app.
Even today, with the extended cut, the player can't get the breath scene when playing a default ME3 playthrough, no multiplayer, not completing any dlc, and having readiness at 50%. The most ems the player can get is about 2950. Not enough to get 3100. To get 3100, the player has to not have TIM shoot Anderson. Doing that will give the player an extra 200 war assets putting total ems over 3100.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 1:38:35 GMT
This is also not correct. One could get the destroy ending even with very low EMS... just not the breath scene. Whether the player got Destroy or Control with low EMS was based on other decisions made in the game, but one or the other would be available to all players. Synthesis did not unlock until later, but it was still possible to get it before the EC. It was the breath scene and only the breath scene that could not be obtained without boosting Readiness. The only way someone can have destroy, if ems is below 1750, is to have destroyed the collector base in ME2. If a default ME3 playthrough, the game will assume the base has been destroyed.. If the player chose to save the base in ME2, control will be the only option, if ems is below 1750.
Before the cut was released, the player needed 4000 ems with Anderson not being shot by TIM to get the breath scene. There were not enough assets to get that number unless multiplayer was played or the player used the IOS app.
Even today, with the extended cut, the player can't get the breath scene when playing a default ME3 playthrough, no multiplayer, not completing any dlc, and having readiness at 50%. The most ems the player can get is about 2950. Not enough to get 3100. To get 3100, the player has to not have TIM shoot Anderson. Doing that will give the player an extra 200 war assets putting total ems over 3100.
This is why I feel that high EMS destroy. in particular, should not be the canon. Bioware went out of their way to make it such that Shepard clearly dies in most of the endings. That IS the experience of most people who played the Trilogy only once regardless of which ending they selected.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 6, 2019 1:48:27 GMT
Yes, Shepard dies in nearly all endings, but I believe he/she is the one that told the original story that was passed down to others to be passed to others and so on and so on. It's hard for anyone to tell the story if no one knew exactly what happened on the Citadel. Only Shepard does. He/she survives destroy.
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Post by sassafrassa on Apr 6, 2019 1:56:21 GMT
Yes, Shepard dies in nearly all endings, but I believe he/she is the one that told the original story that was passed down to others to be passed to others and so on and so on. It's hard for anyone to tell the story if no one knew exactly what happened on the Citadel. Only Shepard does. He/she survives destroy. Shepard's story is done. I'd want a new protagonist and the simple fact is, if you insist on details then you have to pick a canon ending and that will peeve anyone who picked a different ending. Best to leave it all as vague as possible. No, it's not a great thing to have to do but it is the only practical option. It's like ripping off a band-aid; just get it over with and move on. MET wasn't given that option. Though it seemed like it was meant to be a complete ending for ME, there were also articles around saying that people ought to keep their saves. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if there weren't at least some idea of where they might be going, or how they were going to resolve the multiple endings. They never had a plan going forward. Never. Unless you consider them knowing they'd make three games a "plan". I wish they had planned out the story in relative detail in advance so they could properly set stuff up, or even just plan stuff generally. That's not what they did though. I suppose the game development process might not really lend itself to that. Too busy and too driven by market forces for them to want to risk settling on a particular vision years in advance. Does anyone think it's weird that people keep attempting to maintain continuity by blowing it up? No, a galaxy and especially an Earth in ruins after the events of the Reaper War is a logical outcome even with the Reapers defeated.
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Post by 10k on Apr 6, 2019 1:58:05 GMT
Yes, Shepard dies in nearly all endings, but I believe he/she is the one that told the original story that was passed down to others to be passed to others and so on and so on. It's hard for anyone to tell the story if no one knew exactly what happened on the Citadel. Only Shepard does. He/she survives destroy. That's so true. Not only that according to the stargazer scene at the end there should be at least 1 more story about "The Shepard." I want it!
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 6, 2019 1:58:23 GMT
actually if they were just geth before the reaper code then they would just be...geth before they got reaper code. They could try to build their dyson sphere thing again and there you go. So it's the same geth we have seen for what? 90% of the mass effect trilogy? The point is that they may not have any recollection of what being Geth is, right from their conception. So a new unit would arise, that would be shaped by their first interactions with the Quarians. Or each other. Or we get the robot apocalypse and this was all a bad idea. But if it only went to how they were pre reaper virus they would still be the geth we have seen before they got the reaper code
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 6, 2019 3:08:54 GMT
The point is that they may not have any recollection of what being Geth is, right from their conception. So a new unit would arise, that would be shaped by their first interactions with the Quarians. Or each other. Or we get the robot apocalypse and this was all a bad idea. But if it only went to how they were pre reaper virus they would still be the geth we have seen before they got the reaper code No, they would be their own beings. Just like if you clone a person, despite the same genetic code the clone is not that person but their own unique person. Likewise the neo-Geth would not be the Geth we knew but their own unique race. The Geth that we knew would still be dead.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 6, 2019 3:45:04 GMT
First a disclaimer I have only read the first post.
I think trying to make another game based on the choices from the first three is completely moronic and would be a dumber choice then what has been demonstrated recently by BioWare. I still remember all the complaining about The Rachni, the Collector Base, and Shepard's origin in Mass Effect 1 and how they weren't used enough in the game. Not to mention how horribly a lot of characters were treated and were presented as nothing more then a cameo. BioWare screwed up with Mass Effect by making so many of the choices have such a large significance that I don't think it could be done in a manner aside from a side quest planet where you spend ten minutes reflecting on your choice.
My point of view has always been that I don't care where the game is set, but Shepard and Crew need to be left alone to make new choices and not handcuff future games to a mount of content that probably won't add a lot of content to the game and I highly doubt will ever be addressed successfully. The best call back as I see it was dealing with Conrad Vernor in Mass Effect 3 for it was minor content in the games and had very little to do with the main plot so the results were not significant.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 6, 2019 6:56:00 GMT
No, they would be their own beings. Just like if you clone a person, despite the same genetic code the clone is not that person but their own unique person. Likewise the neo-Geth would not be the Geth we knew but their own unique race. The Geth that we knew would still be dead. On the other hand, we don't exactly know what happens to the Geth and EDI when the crucible fires. We know they power down. Other then that, who is to say?
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 6, 2019 15:11:17 GMT
First a disclaimer I have only read the first post. I think trying to make another game based on the choices from the first three is completely moronic and would be a dumber choice then what has been demonstrated recently by BioWare. I still remember all the complaining about The Rachni, the Collector Base, and Shepard's origin in Mass Effect 1 and how they weren't used enough in the game. Not to mention how horribly a lot of characters were treated and were presented as nothing more then a cameo. BioWare screwed up with Mass Effect by making so many of the choices have such a large significance that I don't think it could be done in a manner aside from a side quest planet where you spend ten minutes reflecting on your choice. My point of view has always been that I don't care where the game is set, but Shepard and Crew need to be left alone to make new choices and not handcuff future games to a mount of content that probably won't add a lot of content to the game and I highly doubt will ever be addressed successfully. The best call back as I see it was dealing with Conrad Vernor in Mass Effect 3 for it was minor content in the games and had very little to do with the main plot so the results were not significant. Does this imply no more MW, ever?
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 6, 2019 15:12:22 GMT
No, they would be their own beings. Just like if you clone a person, despite the same genetic code the clone is not that person but their own unique person. Likewise the neo-Geth would not be the Geth we knew but their own unique race. The Geth that we knew would still be dead. On the other hand, we don't exactly know what happens to the Geth and EDI when the crucible fires. We know they power down. Other then that, who is to say? If the Normandy crew thought EDI was dead, it's stupid to pretend she isn't. Who would know better?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 6, 2019 15:20:45 GMT
If the Normandy crew thought EDI was dead, it's stupid to pretend she isn't. Who would know better? At the ship's state, after the crash and with however many injured on board, I am guessing restarting an AI, that is suffering some kind of malfunction, for sure, may not be their top priority in terms of diagnostics and repairs and would definitely be a lot more difficult to get it working again. That's not to say that it is impossible to say that she is dead for sure. It would be up to Bioware to decide. Maybe Tricia Heffer wouldn't want to come back to EDI, for example, so, yeah, dead.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 6, 2019 15:36:16 GMT
That's just confused. They know what those difficulties are. They know the difference between something being a problem to solve in the future, and something that's conceptually unsolvable.
I get that you're just trying to pull off a retcon here, but magical thinking isn't the way. Just say it's a retcon and own it.
(While we're at it, let's bring Thane and Mordin back.)
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 6, 2019 18:49:39 GMT
First a disclaimer I have only read the first post. I think trying to make another game based on the choices from the first three is completely moronic and would be a dumber choice then what has been demonstrated recently by BioWare. I still remember all the complaining about The Rachni, the Collector Base, and Shepard's origin in Mass Effect 1 and how they weren't used enough in the game. Not to mention how horribly a lot of characters were treated and were presented as nothing more then a cameo. BioWare screwed up with Mass Effect by making so many of the choices have such a large significance that I don't think it could be done in a manner aside from a side quest planet where you spend ten minutes reflecting on your choice. My point of view has always been that I don't care where the game is set, but Shepard and Crew need to be left alone to make new choices and not handcuff future games to a mount of content that probably won't add a lot of content to the game and I highly doubt will ever be addressed successfully. The best call back as I see it was dealing with Conrad Vernor in Mass Effect 3 for it was minor content in the games and had very little to do with the main plot so the results were not significant. Does this imply no more MW, ever? No, that is why I said I don't care where they set the game. For all I care the set it in the Milky Way and just not mentioned the endings.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 6, 2019 22:31:52 GMT
Does this imply no more MW, ever? No, that is why I said I don't care where they set the game. For all I care the set it in the Milky Way and just not mentioned the endings. So if they had the next game in the MW with shep and no reapers you would be fine with that as long as they didn't flat out say which ending it was.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass I am just curious if you actually mean that you don't care as long as they don't flat out say it
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 6, 2019 22:48:02 GMT
No, that is why I said I don't care where they set the game. For all I care the set it in the Milky Way and just not mentioned the endings. So if they had the next game in the MW with shep and no reapers you would be fine with that as long as they didn't flat out say which ending it was.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass I am just curious if you actually mean that you don't care as long as they don't flat out say it
Yes, but without Shepard. I think they wrote themselves into a hole with the characters from the first three games with the choices they demonstrated.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 7, 2019 16:38:20 GMT
Do something like the dragon age keep. Yes this wouldn't be able to fix the endings or do enough to make each one distinct. However it could help us with previous characters and the decisions we made for species. If we had the quarians die for example at their homeworld we could see very few quarians and have them be the last of their species and number in the thouasands rather then the millions since the flotilla was wiped out. We could have wrex be in charge or not and so on and so on. SO what do you think would a dragon age keep for mass effect fix alot of stuff.
And again I know it wouldn't fix the endings or the fact that they would need one to be made cannon or go WAY in the future or something.
The Keep barely works and carrying three games of worth of decisions is why none of the major decisions matter, the best way is too continue onward with MEA2 and why it's very important that BioWare doesn't start going backwards with Mass Effect and Dragon Age because that NEVER fixes the story problems it only makes it worse I've seen way too many franchises and companies that have been nearly ruined (Transformers, G.I. Joe, Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who DC Comics and Marvel Comics just to name a few) or ruined because giving stupid pointless bad fanservice to their smallest and usually worst parts of their fandoms who then piss all over it because "it can't live up the golden age" or "destroys the legacy of *insert name here*" because some people live in the past and don't want to see their favorite series move on and bring new fans and keep going forwards into the future.
Also since the events of the MET take place in a different galaxy over 600 years after the events of ME3 the decisions don't matter and I don't have replay 3 or 4 earlier games (plus read a bunch of novels and comics and watch an anime movie, a cheap live action web series) to understand the plot of the next game in the series which while fun every once in a great while is becoming more and more tiresome.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 7, 2019 18:40:02 GMT
Do something like the dragon age keep. Yes this wouldn't be able to fix the endings or do enough to make each one distinct. However it could help us with previous characters and the decisions we made for species. If we had the quarians die for example at their homeworld we could see very few quarians and have them be the last of their species and number in the thouasands rather then the millions since the flotilla was wiped out. We could have wrex be in charge or not and so on and so on. SO what do you think would a dragon age keep for mass effect fix alot of stuff.
And again I know it wouldn't fix the endings or the fact that they would need one to be made cannon or go WAY in the future or something.
The Keep barely works and carrying three games of worth of decisions is why none of the major decisions matter, the best way is too continue onward with MEA2 and why it's very important that BioWare doesn't start going backwards with Mass Effect and Dragon Age because that NEVER fixes the story problems it only makes it worse I've seen way too many franchises and companies that have been nearly ruined (Transformers, G.I. Joe, Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who DC Comics and Marvel Comics just to name a few) or ruined because giving stupid pointless bad fanservice to their smallest and usually worst parts of their fandoms who then piss all over it because "it can't live up the golden age" or "destroys the legacy of *insert name here*" because some people live in the past and don't want to see their favorite series move on and bring new fans and keep going forwards into the future.
Also since the events of the MET take place in a different galaxy over 600 years after the events of ME3 the decisions don't matter and I don't have replay 3 or 4 earlier games (plus read a bunch of novels and comics and watch an anime movie, a cheap live action web series) to understand the plot of the next game in the series which while fun every once in a great while is becoming more and more tiresome.
I never read the comics except the one that came with my ME3 game or watched the anime or anything but the games and I loved the trilogy. They could have a short summary you could read in the codex to understand what happened recently. I have read a ton of books that belong to series that have six or more books in them. I don't reread them all before the next novel comes out. Some of the authors I read put in summaries of what happened in each book that are a few paragraphs. Considering you would have to go through a keep thing unless you wanted a default playthrough it isn't unreasonable to just have a short summary. Or even wiki the thing which is what alot of people who played the witcher 2 but not the first one did.
Also transformers was never the mind blowing movie people thought it was and the star wars movies that were episode 1,2,and 3 had other problems. Now I am not talking about a prequel because I absolutely loathe prequels.
Also while the andromeda crew is six hundred years into the future we don't know anything about what happened in the milky way so it wouldn't be like a prequel or anything like that.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 8, 2019 18:17:18 GMT
That's why I specified "best". Fun fact; I crunched the numbers and discovered that one of my Destroy Shepards only survived because he sabotaged the genophage cure. I think mike said it was possible to do a full on Renegade one, losing most of your squadmates and other "bad" stuff, but still managed to save Shepard.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 8, 2019 19:11:53 GMT
That's why I specified "best". Fun fact; I crunched the numbers and discovered that one of my Destroy Shepards only survived because he sabotaged the genophage cure. I think mike said it was possible to do a full on Renegade one, losing most of your squadmates and other "bad" stuff, but still managed to save Shepard. He did. Checkout his playthrough in his signature.
He even played as a paragon with the memorial wall completely filled with Shepard surviving.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 3, 2019 17:12:22 GMT
Maybe sometimes just putting a franchise to rest isnt such bad idea. When I look how stuff is milked and sucked dry I'd rather remember fondly of the trilogy than iterate some used-teabag style story just for the sake of it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 3, 2019 20:43:47 GMT
Maybe sometimes just putting a franchise to rest isnt such bad idea. When I look how stuff is milked and sucked dry I'd rather remember fondly of the trilogy than iterate some used-teabag style story just for the sake of it. What else are they going to do after DA4? Anthem 2? Develop yet another new IP? When is that going to be ready? Is EA even going to trust them with something other than a sequel, after the cancellation of, uh, what was it called again, shadow realms? Shadow grounds? And the PR nightmare of Anthem? But it doesn't matter. They'll just go with Andromeda 2, because Bioware can't admit failure, as they are part of EA, a publicly traded company and that would be bad for their stock price and as a result it will get laughed at, from announcement to release, slammed by reviewers, youtubers and clickbait article writers and sell below EA's expectations, yet again, then we'll get another Jason Schreier article about how Bioware was in disarray yet again and pre-production went on for 5 years.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 3, 2019 20:50:36 GMT
Maybe sometimes just putting a franchise to rest isnt such bad idea. When I look how stuff is milked and sucked dry I'd rather remember fondly of the trilogy than iterate some used-teabag style story just for the sake of it. 👆This👆
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