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Post by githcheater on Mar 23, 2019 18:31:29 GMT
I believe the OP's original post is reasonable "fun" speculation, and it got me wondering what DAI romances might have looked like had DAI been released as a "GaaS model" video game. Cassandra, Iron Bull, Varric, Cole, Solas and Vivienne might be the only initially available companions. Because most players only do one playthrough (and some do not finish), EA might think it reasonable to only have two initial player-sexual romances (Iron Bull and Josephine). Blackwall, Dorian and Sara might be new DLC romanceable companions. Cassandra, Solas and Cullen romances might also be DLC romances. Perhaps Varric might have a rebound romance DLC to satisfy the "dwarf-mancers", if his relationship with Bianca went sour during the single player game. Similarly, Vivienne might have a rebound romance to give non-racist chauvinists a fan service romance after Vivienne's hubby dies.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 23, 2019 19:14:02 GMT
Noted. So, I played 10 hours, did every side quest I could, and got up to the Tomb of Valor quests. how far into the story would you say that is, out of curiousity? A third to quarter. 😎 Cool, so I spend maybe 5 hours on the story related stuff, and the rest messing around in freeplay or exploring.. so that puts the story up to 15-20 hours.
Which isn't bad. I can play the entirety of Mass Effect 1 in about 20 hours. Side quests, all dialog, all fetch quests, including all the rocks, matriarch writings etc. I did this a while ago to prepare to upload into Mass Effect 2, and eventually 3. I can do it so fast because I know the game really well, and know where to go to get everything I need.
I have no idea how long the actual mainline story is, might be only 5 hours, if I chose to speed through, skip dialog, and skip talking to the crew etc. I have no idea why I, as a completionist, would do that, but I suspect it could be done.
That doesn't make Mass Effect a bad game. It was a great game, in fact, right down to the awkward and cringy dialog moments, the bouncy tank and mostly barren worlds. Saying the game is x number of hours isnt an insult to the game, its just a description of reality.
I can do it in 20 hours, but that doesn't make it a 20 hour game. It certainly doesn't make it a 5 hour game. People who will spend longer getting to the end will get just as much enjoyment out of it as someone who sped through as fast as they could, or maybe more. I have no idea how long my first attempt at it took, but I suspect it was significantly longer than that.
I can spend hundreds of hours in Skyrim, but that doesn't make it a 200 hour game either. Spending a hundred hours maxing all skills shouldn't be counted in the overall game length imo. All that is to say, the length of the game depends on your play style, difficulty settings, and how much you can tolerate filler that pads out the time (ie Skyrim). What's important is, how much you enjoy what's there.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 23, 2019 19:17:05 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up, English isn't my first language and I sometimes struggle with those phrases. As for the arguments made: I guess at this point we can only speculate but seeing what they did with Anthem, I understand, that DA fans get nervous. Live services in games seem to be a trend, multi-player too. My post is speculation on what it might look like, that's all. It seems game defenders are getting up in arms, thinking I'm criticizing or doom saying, which I'm not. *shrug* I should have worded my post better on that front, so for that I do apologize.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 23, 2019 19:26:02 GMT
I think reading my OP, a least in some cases, was wanting it to be that. The first responder seemed to not even read what I wrote, just assumed I meant something I didn't. Whatever, its BSN. lol. For instance my post did not say it WOULD be a shared world. I gave two possibilities, one of them not shared world, but everyone is ignoring that. I suppose. Although the way you voiced your points in the beginning did give me the impression of a shared world, and/or a co-op mode... which BioWare already did with Neverwinter Nights (dunno if they did with Baldur's Gate, although I know the Enhanced Edition has it). Well, yah, half the post did that. The other half talked about the other option.
In any case, The point of the post was to set up a scenario (my definition of a GaaS game) and speculate on how it would look under that model. I didn't mean to suggest that was the only possibility, or even that it was a likely one.
I could make a thread speculating on how the game might look as a strategy game like Civilization or the Warlords series. Build armies, take over the map and recreate ancient Tevinter, or dominate the lands as the Qun. I'd probably play that game, but that doesn't mean I think DA4 will go that direction.
I never played those, well Baldurs Gate, but not multiplayer. It's my understanding the game let you start a campaign and have other friends join you in place of party members like Minsc, probably by LAN back in the day. This is similar to Legends of the Sword Coast, a more recent game. People put way too much significance on Bioware having done that. They are completely different beasts from what we have these days.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 23, 2019 20:15:24 GMT
I believe the OP's original post is reasonable "fun" speculation, and it got me wondering what DAI romances might have looked like had DAI been released as a "GaaS model" video game. Cassandra, Iron Bull, Varric, Cole, Solas and Vivienne might be the only initially available companions. Because most players only do one playthrough (and some do not finish), EA might think it reasonable to only have two initial player-sexual romances (Iron Bull and Josephine). Blackwall, Dorian and Sara might be new DLC romanceable companions. Cassandra, Solas and Cullen romances might also be DLC romances. Perhaps Varric might have a rebound romance DLC to satisfy the "dwarf-mancers", if his relationship with Bianca went sour during the single player game. Similarly, Vivienne might have a rebound romance to give non-racist chauvinists a fan service romance after Vivienne's hubby dies. Well thanks, I'm glad someone got it.
I guess that would make IB recruit-able first so he is there almost as long as Josie.
If Varric is in, I wand Dagna too
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Post by colfoley on Mar 23, 2019 21:04:28 GMT
While if I did miss the intent of your post I do appologize, on the other hand your initial post did read like a littany of the absolutely worst-case scenarios. Nothing that I think I would want in these games and things I doubt you would want them. Furthermore, as I outlined in my post, I doubt any of these scenarios will come to pass based on my experiences with LS games. I mean sure the doom saying probably has happened somewhere or else there wouldn't be any, but its not true of any triple A games that you have to pay full or nearly full price for. This might be true in always online or free to play models of live service, but that does not have to be the end result of this sort of thing. And sure I get that speculation is fun but...
In regards to BioWare specifically A. my point is we just don't know, all we know is that DA 4 is going to be a thing thanks to a single minute long trailer. No information exists on what kind of live service features the game will have yet, so all of our speculation is without any grounding. And B. Anthem's existance makes it very likely that they won't do the same thing to DA. Afterall if they were going to turn DA into an 'always online/ shared world/ MMORPG' they would've already done so. It would already be released as such or would be very near completion and we'd have a lot more information on it. Afterall, while it is risky to fundamentally change an existing IP like that...you risk alienating the fans of said IP, your core audience, it is far riskier to create something brand new with no name recognition.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 23, 2019 21:18:58 GMT
DA4 as "Games as a service"?
Let's see...
No companions until at least a year later. And then they would either be rewards for whatever passes for raids, or for HELLA lyrium (or whatever the in-game currency purchased with reall money would cost)
Romances would be paid DLC
Minrathous would have a single zone, which would periodically be added to every few months with an update.
Special "Hawke event" where the Champion of Kirkwall would appear and give epic quests you can grind for cosmetic rewards like nug mounts or consumables (mostly different types of cheese)
Isabela skins for your character in the marketplace. Again, hella expensive.
Mabari pet in the marketplace. Hella expensive
Unlockable Qunari character in the marketplace. Hella exp...you get the idea.
Level 1 you're fighting nugs for copper. Level 50 you're fighting Fade-touched nugs for gold.
There's be either a Blight or a Fade rift or a Qunari invasion every month or so. Possibly on a rotating basis.
At some point, perhaps 3-4 years down the line, griffons will suddenly be popping up everywhere and the Grey Wardens will provide a rapid-transit system with them for a nominal fee.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 23, 2019 21:22:25 GMT
DA4 as "Games as a service"? Let's see... No companions until at least a year later. And then they would either be rewards for whatever passes for raids, or for HELLA lyrium (or whatever the in-game currency purchased with reall money would cost) Romances would be paid DLC Minrathous would have a single zone, which would periodically be added to every few months with an update. Special "Hawke event" where the Champion of Kirkwall would appear and give epic quests you can grind for cosmetic rewards like nug mounts or consumables (mostly different types of cheese) Isabela skins for your character in the marketplace. Again, hella expensive. Mabari pet in the marketplace. Hella expensive Unlockable Qunari character in the marketplace. Hella exp...you get the idea. Level 1 you're fighting nugs for copper. Level 50 you're fighting Fade-touched nugs for gold. There's be either a Blight or a Fade rift or a Qunari invasion every month or so. Possibly on a rotating basis. At some point, perhaps 3-4 years down the line, griffons will suddenly be popping up everywhere and the Grey Wardens will provide a rapid-transit system with them for a nominal fee. Only thing that I think likely from this is Lyrium could very easily become the in game currency to interact with the live service elements, like Orichalcum.
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githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Mar 23, 2019 21:45:54 GMT
Given the tremendous expense of creating AAA games, I do not believe this speculation is too far-fetched. Heck some players are advocating for $100 games now.
Hypothetically, if a diluted GaaS DAI had been released this year (but not on X-Box 360 or PS3) it probably would be RPG of the year, and possibly be in contention for game of the year.
One positive of a hypothetically diluted DAI might be a more coherent story with fewer interludes of tangentially unrelated side quests (and fewer fetch quests) that tend to derail the continuity of the plot.
A diluted GaaS DAI would still be a long game if some companions and romances were saved for DLC, or even if some areas like the Hissing Wastes, the Fallow Mire and the Forbidden Oasis were saved for DLC release.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 23, 2019 21:50:48 GMT
Given the tremendous expense of creating AAA games, I do not believe this speculation is too far-fetched. Heck some players are advocating for $100 games now. Hypothetically, if a diluted GaaS DAI had been released this year (but not on X-Box 360 or PS3) it probably would be RPG of the year, and possibly be in contention for game of the year. One positive of a hypothetically diluted DAI might be a more coherent story with fewer interludes of tangentially unrelated side quests (and fewer fetch quests) that tend to derail the continuity of the plot. A diluted GaaS DAI would still be a long game if some companions and romances were saved for DLC, or even if some areas like the Hissing Wastes, the Fallow Mire and the Forbidden Oasis were saved for DLC release. Its an...interesting idea. I just don't see them releasing companions or romances later on as DLC. But i am kind of curious here since a non diluted DAI won multiple Game of the Year awards anyways how you think a Live Service element would truly effect the game?
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Post by biggydx on Mar 24, 2019 2:36:26 GMT
Given the tremendous expense of creating AAA games, I do not believe this speculation is too far-fetched. Heck some players are advocating for $100 games now. Hypothetically, if a diluted GaaS DAI had been released this year (but not on X-Box 360 or PS3) it probably would be RPG of the year, and possibly be in contention for game of the year. One positive of a hypothetically diluted DAI might be a more coherent story with fewer interludes of tangentially unrelated side quests (and fewer fetch quests) that tend to derail the continuity of the plot. A diluted GaaS DAI would still be a long game if some companions and romances were saved for DLC, or even if some areas like the Hissing Wastes, the Fallow Mire and the Forbidden Oasis were saved for DLC release. One issue that GaaS titles do have is, "How much content should there have been from the start?" How many companions is a good amount? If we have fewer companions, does that mean they're more fleshed out and have deeper romance options?
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Post by githcheater on Mar 24, 2019 18:15:28 GMT
Given the tremendous expense of creating AAA games, I do not believe this speculation is too far-fetched. Heck some players are advocating for $100 games now. Hypothetically, if a diluted GaaS DAI had been released this year (but not on X-Box 360 or PS3) it probably would be RPG of the year, and possibly be in contention for game of the year. One positive of a hypothetically diluted DAI might be a more coherent story with fewer interludes of tangentially unrelated side quests (and fewer fetch quests) that tend to derail the continuity of the plot. A diluted GaaS DAI would still be a long game if some companions and romances were saved for DLC, or even if some areas like the Hissing Wastes, the Fallow Mire and the Forbidden Oasis were saved for DLC release. Its an...interesting idea. I just don't see them releasing companions or romances later on as DLC. But i am kind of curious here since a non diluted DAI won multiple Game of the Year awards anyways how you think a Live Service element would truly effect the game? I am hoping that single player is completely separate from multiplayer. However, as a pessimist, I am concerned the single player experience might be tainted or gutted by emphasising or forcing multiplayer or "social" aspects (and play to win microtransactions). It would be nice if EA did not place all their loyalty toward short term stock holders and solely aim at short term profit. I hope EA will elect to strive for balancing customer value with long term profit and value for stockholders.
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Post by biggydx on Mar 24, 2019 18:39:05 GMT
Its an...interesting idea. I just don't see them releasing companions or romances later on as DLC. But i am kind of curious here since a non diluted DAI won multiple Game of the Year awards anyways how you think a Live Service element would truly effect the game? I am hoping that single player is completely separate from multiplayer. However, as a pessimist, I am concerned the single player experience might be tainted or gutted by emphasising or forcing multiplayer or "social" aspects (and play to win microtransactions). It would be nice if EA did not place all their loyalty toward short term stock holders and solely aim at short term profit. I hope EA will elect to strive for balancing customer value with long term profit and value for stockholders. I would not think that BioWare would try to force it on players. Andromeda Multiplayer had no need to force you into multiplayer, outside of one of the APEX strike force officers (a Turian in the Nexus) basically tipping you off that the mode existed. In fact, if you played Andromeda Multiplayer, you would actually receive benefits in singleplayer, which took the form of packs that reward you a random weapon or some crafting materials of differing rarity. Inquisition - I believe - was fairly standalone as well. There may have been something related to the war table, but I don't think this was ever the case. Inquisition did have the multiplayer characters show up in Skyhold though; but I don't believe they had dialogue. As for whether or not this will detract from single-player, I think that largely depends on whether you thought Inquisitions multiplayer detracted from that games experience; as a metric. I'm more inclined to believe the Frostbite engine is more likely to impede upon how much singleplayer content they can make rather than multiplayer simply existing. Finally, regarding EA... yeah, that ain't happenin'.
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Post by Frost on Mar 24, 2019 18:45:16 GMT
I am hoping that single player is completely separate from multiplayer. However, as a pessimist, I am concerned the single player experience might be tainted or gutted by emphasising or forcing multiplayer or "social" aspects (and play to win microtransactions). It would be nice if EA did not place all their loyalty toward short term stock holders and solely aim at short term profit. I hope EA will elect to strive for balancing customer value with long term profit and value for stockholders. Agree! I wish EA and Bioware weren't so extreme in their views against making single-player only games. Other companies make single-player games and even single-player GaaS. Why not Bioware?
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Post by biggydx on Mar 24, 2019 19:40:41 GMT
I am hoping that single player is completely separate from multiplayer. However, as a pessimist, I am concerned the single player experience might be tainted or gutted by emphasising or forcing multiplayer or "social" aspects (and play to win microtransactions). It would be nice if EA did not place all their loyalty toward short term stock holders and solely aim at short term profit. I hope EA will elect to strive for balancing customer value with long term profit and value for stockholders. Agree! I wish EA and Bioware weren't so extreme in their views against making single-player only games. Other companies make single-player games, and even single-player GaaS. Why not Bioware? I'm not sure it's necessarily BioWare, and more that its EA. When BioWare added multiplayer to Mass Effect 3, they didn't expect it to be so successful, as it was during a time when every major release title was adding multiplayer modes for the sake of it. But with the mode being so successful, it likely generated a lot of money, and likely spurned EA to have it be the norm for every singleplayer game they make. They've already mandated that all their AA-AAA products have an online (basically MP) component to them. That being said, I don't think BioWare is shy of doing multiplayer either, which Baldurs Gate 2, Neverwinter Nights, and SW:TOR kinda prove; though those games still have a solid SP focus. EA also wants to have a large stream of recurrent revenue. I can't remember what year it was, but with Ultimate Team (basically the online, competitive part of EA's sports titles - which still have lootboxes) they've raked in over $800M in "recurrent monetization"; or money off microtransactions. They want a consistent revenue stream, and multiplayer is a way to do that since players are typically engaged for longer periods in multiplayer games than what could be offered in a 10-100hr singleplayer game
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Post by colfoley on Mar 24, 2019 19:49:20 GMT
Its an...interesting idea. I just don't see them releasing companions or romances later on as DLC. But i am kind of curious here since a non diluted DAI won multiple Game of the Year awards anyways how you think a Live Service element would truly effect the game? I am hoping that single player is completely separate from multiplayer. However, as a pessimist, I am concerned the single player experience might be tainted or gutted by emphasising or forcing multiplayer or "social" aspects (and play to win microtransactions). It would be nice if EA did not place all their loyalty toward short term stock holders and solely aim at short term profit. I hope EA will elect to strive for balancing customer value with long term profit and value for stockholders. Live Service is all about increasing a games long term profitability.
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Post by githcheater on Mar 24, 2019 20:50:27 GMT
I am hoping that single player is completely separate from multiplayer. However, as a pessimist, I am concerned the single player experience might be tainted or gutted by emphasising or forcing multiplayer or "social" aspects (and play to win microtransactions). It would be nice if EA did not place all their loyalty toward short term stock holders and solely aim at short term profit. I hope EA will elect to strive for balancing customer value with long term profit and value for stockholders. Live Service is all about increasing a games long term profitability. Live Service does not mean sacrificing long term profitability. Live service does not need predatory play to win microtransaction loot boxes for long term profitability. Customer should be king over short term shareholders. EA, if it wanted, could forgo a little short term profit, and instead look to long term profitability and satisfaction of their customers, instead of looking solely for short term quarterly revenues for short term stockholders. Unfortunately, EA has a long history of anti-consumer behavior. I suppose I should be grateful that EA does not treat safety as a microtransaction, like a certain airplane manufacturer.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 24, 2019 20:59:23 GMT
Live Service is all about increasing a games long term profitability. Live Service does not mean sacrificing long term profitability. Live service does not need predatory play to win microtransaction loot boxes for long term profitability. Customer should be king over short term shareholders. EA, if it wanted, could forgo a little short term profit, and instead look to long term profitability and satisfaction of their customers, instead of looking solely for short term quarterly revenues for short term stockholders. Unfortunately, EA has a long history of anti-consumer behavior. I suppose I should be grateful that EA does not treat safety as a microtransaction, like a certain airplane manufacturer. i agree with you, what i just said.
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Post by melbella on Mar 24, 2019 21:39:19 GMT
The game at launch would be rather bare bones. I suspect we would get the Hinterlands. And that's it. Whatever the first plot would be, it would take place in Hinterlands only. The irony of this is, my first PT, I actually thought sealing the breach (in Haven) was the end of the game. To be fair, though, I was playing with very low graphics ability so getting even that far took me probably 50 hours due to running everywhere in slow motion.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 24, 2019 21:51:17 GMT
The game at launch would be rather bare bones. I suspect we would get the Hinterlands. And that's it. Whatever the first plot would be, it would take place in Hinterlands only. The irony of this is, my first PT, I actually thought sealing the breach (in Haven) was the end of the game. To be fair, though, I was playing with very low graphics ability so getting even that far took me probably 50 hours due to running everywhere in slow motion. Wow, that sounds painful, my condolences
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 24, 2019 21:54:08 GMT
But with the mode being so successful, it likely generated a lot of money, and likely spurned EA to have it be the norm for every singleplayer game they make. They've already mandated that all their AA-AAA products have an online (basically MP) component to them. That was mandated before ME3 though. Just a nitpick
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Mar 24, 2024 23:25:39 GMT
3,395
biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
2,201
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by biggydx on Mar 25, 2019 0:38:43 GMT
But with the mode being so successful, it likely generated a lot of money, and likely spurned EA to have it be the norm for every singleplayer game they make. They've already mandated that all their AA-AAA products have an online (basically MP) component to them. That was mandated before ME3 though. Just a nitpick That's what I was saying. "They had already mandated that [multiplayer]" On topic, I think for now, my going assumption will be that the game will feature short story quests that are added in for free, while also having daily/weekly activities. They'll have a standalone MP mode (as they've normally done), and they'll probably grant you some bonuses in singleplayer for completing multiplayer matches. This is what I'm defaulting to as a baseline. When it comes to how they'll treat content and future (paid) DLC releases, that'll be up in the air. Unfortunately, and this is especially true after Anthem, is that I believe that BioWare's ambition to make large scale environments within an engine (Frostbite) that's proven to be limiting, it could potentially (if not likely) lead to setbacks for certain story quests or settings.
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ღ Grumpy Old Man
1046
0
Feb 12, 2024 15:48:21 GMT
15,499
Space Cowboy
They call me a Space Cowboy
4,937
Aug 17, 2016 20:09:17 GMT
August 2016
spacecowboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 25, 2019 0:56:27 GMT
That was mandated before ME3 though. Just a nitpick That's what I was saying. "They had already mandated that [multiplayer]" On topic, I think for now, my going assumption will be that the game will feature short story quests that are added in for free, while also having daily/weekly activities. They'll have a standalone MP mode (as they've normally done), and they'll probably grant you some bonuses in singleplayer for completing multiplayer matches. This is what I'm defaulting to as a baseline. When it comes to how they'll treat content and future (paid) DLC releases, that'll be up in the air. Unfortunately, and this is especially true after Anthem, is that I believe that BioWare's ambition to make large scale environments within an engine (Frostbite) that's proven to be limiting, it could potentially (if not likely) lead to setbacks for certain story quests or settings. Oh, the first sentence sounded like you said the success of ME3 made EA mandate multiplayer for all games. Sorry, lol
Anyway, I can't imagine having daily and weekly events in a SP mode. I'd just ignore them if so.
They can make nice looking environments, but struggle to fill them with meaningful content, it seems.
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7754
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Mar 24, 2024 23:25:39 GMT
3,395
biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
2,201
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by biggydx on Mar 25, 2019 1:22:31 GMT
Oh, the first sentence sounded like you said the success of ME3 made EA mandate multiplayer for all games. Sorry, lol It's fine. And yeah, I think if BioWare can't figure out how to do meaningful content well in the next Dragon Age game, they'll reap the same criticisms as they did with Inquisition, Andromeda, and - now - Anthem. I know a lot of people are calling for the next Dragon Age game to be a purely seamless world, but it might be in BioWare's best interest to have small to medium-sized regions that have their own unique feel and stories. People like seeing variety in environments, and having the game stuck solely in Tevinter would likely lead to the geography of the area outstaying its welcome.
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8777
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dawnold
108
June 2017
dawnold
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Post by dawnold on Mar 25, 2019 19:48:33 GMT
Given the tremendous expense of creating AAA games, I do not believe this speculation is too far-fetched. Heck some players are advocating for $100 games now. Hypothetically, if a diluted GaaS DAI had been released this year (but not on X-Box 360 or PS3) it probably would be RPG of the year, and possibly be in contention for game of the year. One positive of a hypothetically diluted DAI might be a more coherent story with fewer interludes of tangentially unrelated side quests (and fewer fetch quests) that tend to derail the continuity of the plot. A diluted GaaS DAI would still be a long game if some companions and romances were saved for DLC, or even if some areas like the Hissing Wastes, the Fallow Mire and the Forbidden Oasis were saved for DLC release. Its an...interesting idea. I just don't see them releasing companions or romances later on as DLC. But i am kind of curious here since a non diluted DAI won multiple Game of the Year awards anyways how you think a Live Service element would truly effect the game? I guess it's still possible. I never played DA2, so I don't know the intricacies, but I heard there was a dlc for Sebastien and another for Talis. Also I understand that Witcher 3 isn't the most relevant analogy, but they also released dlcs with exclusive romances: Shani and Sienna (I kinda see Bioware and CD proj as friendly competitors due to their past history). I'm not sure if these older dlcs will serve as precedent or if Bioware has already officially stated - via faqs and interviews - that they won't lock comps/roms behind dlc in the future.
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