linksocarina
N5
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2019 17:24:02 GMT
Read the whole thing, it's impressive what they still managed to build in those 18 months. Basically all trouble started with DA:I getting great reviews and all those GOTY awards. It encouraged BioWare to take a path that lead to mayhem with ME:A and Anthem. This is like the 5th time they did that though. If I recall jade empire and dragon age 2 had 18 month timetables at one point. The pattern there is they need changes in corporate management. That was the issue with Andrmeda, it's an issue here.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2019 17:27:05 GMT
Read the whole thing, it's impressive what they still managed to build in those 18 months. Basically all trouble started with DA:I getting great reviews and all those GOTY awards. It encouraged BioWare to take a path that lead to mayhem with ME:A and Anthem. That was honestly the hardest part for me to read (aside from all the harsh treatment of the developers themselves etc) It...almost makes me wish my favorite DA game actually sucked, in hopes they would have woken up sooner to their ridiculous attitude. Well, you know what they say...
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bigbad
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Post by bigbad on Apr 2, 2019 17:27:10 GMT
And just like that, Jason Schreier is once again Public Enemy No. 1 at BSN. Feels like old times.
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Post by warden on Apr 2, 2019 17:27:16 GMT
Read the whole thing, it's impressive what they still managed to build in those 18 months. Basically all trouble started with DA:I getting great reviews and all those GOTY awards. It encouraged BioWare to take a path that lead to mayhem with ME:A and Anthem. This is like the 5th time they did that though. If I recall jade empire and dragon age 2 had 18 month timetables at one point. The pattern there is they need changes in corporate management. That was the issue with Andrmeda, it's an issue here. wasn't some old ME games also made in short time?
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Post by 10k on Apr 2, 2019 17:30:39 GMT
Great read, I loved it. This article just reaffirmed everything I already knew. BW suffers with mismanagement, their higher-ups believe they can do no wrong aka "Bioware magic" or what I like to call "artistic integrity," Frostbite is trash and will always be trash, and EA isn't entirely at fault.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2019 17:33:08 GMT
This is like the 5th time they did that though. If I recall jade empire and dragon age 2 had 18 month timetables at one point. The pattern there is they need changes in corporate management. That was the issue with Andrmeda, it's an issue here. wasn't some old ME games also made in short time? Technically yes, I think 2 and 3 had heavier time tables on then, but Hudson as project lead held it together by being decisive, there was no issues with pre-production as far as I know.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 2, 2019 17:33:11 GMT
This is like the 5th time they did that though. If I recall jade empire and dragon age 2 had 18 month timetables at one point. The pattern there is they need changes in corporate management. That was the issue with Andrmeda, it's an issue here. wasn't some old ME games also made in short time? But they weren't build from the scratch, although Mass Effect 3 wasn't ready when it shipped IIRC.
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giubba
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Post by giubba on Apr 2, 2019 17:34:25 GMT
The part that frustrate me more (apart from putting the names of the alleged responsible so they could be lynched which is one of the most fucking vile thing i saw) is the section regarding frostbite and the support based on the market volume the game developed generate.
Always thought that the idea of a unique inhouse flexible engine is good but if you basically do not give proper support for each kind of trouble and to everyone equally the whole idea doesn't make sense at all.
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Post by shinobiwan on Apr 2, 2019 17:35:12 GMT
Jesus christ...I'm so tired of my cynical thoughts towards this studio being right. Just as I suspected, they didn't have a clue what to do. and as usual, Frostbite sucks for anything that isn't an FPS game....sigh. This was almost, verbatum, the story of FF 14 1.0 again....this is not the type of story you should ever see more than once... Also ofc, in typical EA fashion, all they cared about was stupid graphics.... It's also almost verbatim what happened to FFXV - too many grand ideas that weren't workable, tied up in preproduction way too long, physics engine that gave the dev team hell. The difference was Square still gave the dev team a matter of years to make the game.
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Post by 10k on Apr 2, 2019 17:35:13 GMT
And just like that, Jason Schreier is once again Public Enemy No. 1 at BSN. Feels like old times. Well if that's the case BSN needs to get their heads out of their assess, because Schreier speaks truth.
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bigbad
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Post by bigbad on Apr 2, 2019 17:36:44 GMT
And just like that, Jason Schreier is once again Public Enemy No. 1 at BSN. Feels like old times. Well if that's the case BSN needs to get their heads out of their assess, because Schreier speaks truth. I agree.
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Post by shinobiwan on Apr 2, 2019 17:37:07 GMT
Great read, I loved it. This article just reaffirmed everything I already knew. BW suffers with mismanagement, there higher-ups believe they can do no wrong aka "Bioware magic" or what I like to call "artistic integrity," Frostbite is trash and will always be trash, and EA isn't entirely at fault. EA is actually responsible for the little bit the game does right. Gave the team some amount of focus.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2019 17:38:10 GMT
And just like that, Jason Schreier is once again Public Enemy No. 1 at BSN. Feels like old times. Well if that's the case BSN needs to get their heads out of their assess, because Schreier speaks truth. Moreso than the pundits out there for sure.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 2, 2019 17:38:29 GMT
Jesus christ...I'm so tired of my cynical thoughts towards this studio being right. Just as I suspected, they didn't have a clue what to do. and as usual, Frostbite sucks for anything that isn't an FPS game....sigh. This was almost, verbatum, the story of FF 14 1.0 again....this is not the type of story you should ever see more than once... Also ofc, in typical EA fashion, all they cared about was stupid graphics.... It's also almost verbatim what happened to FFXV - too many grand ideas that weren't workable, tied up in preproduction way too long, physics engine that gave the dev team hell. The difference was Square still gave the dev team a matter of years to make the game. If anything...XV's problem was Nomura, just like KH3's problem (imo) was Nomura....
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 2, 2019 17:40:11 GMT
The part that frustrate me more (apart from putting the names of the alleged responsible so they could be lynched which is one of the most fucking vile thing i saw) is the section regarding frostbite and the support based on the market volume the game developed generate. Always thought that the idea of a unique inhouse flexible engine is good but if you basically do not give proper support for each kind of trouble and to everyone equally the whole idea doesn't make sense at all. Yeah, an internal response team for Frostbite-related issues is pretty much useless if they are getting back to the devs in days/weeks/months instead of hours...it has to be robust enough to handle the issues that are plaguing development
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Post by warden on Apr 2, 2019 17:40:24 GMT
wasn't some old ME games also made in short time? But they weren't build from the scratch, although Mass Effect 3 wasn't ready when it shipped IIRC. I really wonder what Bioware could make in 4 or 5 years without development hell problems. doesn't seem a likely possibility though, it has been like this for almost a decade now.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2019 17:42:22 GMT
But they weren't build from the scratch, although Mass Effect 3 wasn't ready when it shipped IIRC. I really wonder what Bioware could make in 4 or 5 years without development hell problems. doesn't seem a likely possibility though, it has been like this for almost a decade now. Not necessarily. Dragon Age may be the proof of it for them now. There is already a good sign of them using the coding on Anthem for it too, so half of the work is already done.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Apr 2, 2019 17:44:16 GMT
Not surprising. I've been saying it was poor product management from the start. Anthem and Andromeda.
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Post by 10k on Apr 2, 2019 17:47:05 GMT
Can't wait for that DA4 lol.
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giubba
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Giubba
PSN: Giubba1985
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Post by giubba on Apr 2, 2019 17:47:06 GMT
The part that frustrate me more (apart from putting the names of the alleged responsible so they could be lynched which is one of the most fucking vile thing i saw) is the section regarding frostbite and the support based on the market volume the game developed generate. Always thought that the idea of a unique inhouse flexible engine is good but if you basically do not give proper support for each kind of trouble and to everyone equally the whole idea doesn't make sense at all. Yeah, an internal response team for Frostbite-related issues is pretty much useless if they are getting back to the devs in days/weeks/months instead of hours...it has to be robust enough to handle the issues that are plaguing development exactly, imagine the amount of money wasted on project outside the battlefield/EA sport projects.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 2, 2019 17:48:11 GMT
I find the article to be pretty credible.
The flying saved it and made its short story and content for a BioWare game 'enough' (bugs aside). But it's not enough for very long.
They will need to add more content and more story to save it more over the coming months and years.
Looks like Mark Darrah played a huge part in getting it shipped at all.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2019 17:49:36 GMT
Can't wait for that DA4 lol. It's going to be a hoot! 🦉😂
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Post by warden on Apr 2, 2019 17:49:49 GMT
I really wonder what Bioware could make in 4 or 5 years without development hell problems. doesn't seem a likely possibility though, it has been like this for almost a decade now. Not necessarily. Dragon Age may be the proof of it for them now. There is already a good sign of them using the coding on Anthem for it too, so half of the work is already done. they've also been under the radar, not saying much and all. will see.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 2, 2019 17:49:56 GMT
I really wonder what Bioware could make in 4 or 5 years without development hell problems. doesn't seem a likely possibility though, it has been like this for almost a decade now. Not necessarily. Dragon Age may be the proof of it for them now. There is already a good sign of them using the coding on Anthem for it too, so half of the work is already done. I still think fall 2021 is likely for Dragon Age 4's release...that's 7 years since DAI and over 4 years since the supposed re-boot. It would position them for next gen consoles and "Dragon Age" as a franchise still has cache....EA needs to give them time to get it right and make sure they have a solid plan before setting unrealistic release windows
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 2, 2019 17:55:16 GMT
These parts worry me the most. I had already assumed as much about the second quote based on other things we've heard, but this is the most confirmation we've had about it. "Developers still at the studio say that under Casey Hudson, rather than start from scratch yet again, the next Dragon Age will be built on Anthem’s codebase. (We’ll share more on that game in the near future.)" "That summer, studio general manager Aaryn Flynn departed, to be replaced by a returning Casey Hudson. As part of this process, the studio canceled Joplin. Laidlaw quit shortly afterward, and BioWare restarted Dragon Age 4 with a tiny team under the code name Morrison." Don’t know anything about what codebase entails but don’t want da4 to be anything like the horrible anthem. can’t say i’m Overly surprised by revelations. Sounds eerily similar to visceral which must be worrying for bioware’s future. can now understand why the story element is so horrible, with nothing being decided upon for so long. post me3 bioware seems to have got itself into a state wanting to reinvent itself causing problems in both recent flops. darrah comes out positively which might be good news for da4. Casey isn’t actively slagged off as seems the thing fell off the rails after he’d left.
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