Little Bengel
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Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 2, 2019 19:34:29 GMT
So... It seems clear to me that the vast majority of BioWare's management and internal leadership is truly, unfathomably incompetent, save for Darrah and (probably) Hudson. That seems like a far bigger problem than the Frostbite engine to me. I mean, when you switch to a looter-shooter model, you have to look at what such games did wrong or well by principle, and the fact that they (meaning the leadership) practically buried their heads in the sand as far as Destiny went outright shows that they're definitely unsuited for developing this kind of game. And games in general, probably. As far as the decision to use Anthem's codebase for DA4 goes... I'll withhold final judgment until that game's actually released. For now, I can only say it'll either save them a lot of work by adding to it, or it may be the killing blow for DA4. For some reason or another... I don't really have any idea what this news implies, but if anyone can shed some light on it, I'd appreciate it. However, I still have some degree of cautious optimism for DA4 because of Darrah's involvement (as this article proves, he can get shit done). Honestly, heres the thing. People need to chill about DA4 using Anthems codebase. Bioware needs to stop going back to Zero every time. The entire point of using all your games on One Engine is to compile assets, tools, code etc to help make developing all your future titles easier and cheaper. That was originally the point of EA making all their teams use Frostbite. The problem was they didn't order DICE to overhaul Frostbite to make sure it's suitable as a universal engine before dropping that mandate down. Cooperating assets and tools across studios is a frankly ingenious idea. They are just failing epicly at DOING that. As much shit as Betheda gets for their clunky ass Creation Engine...at least get this right lol. Fair point. I just know next to shit about coding, and I was hoping someone could help explain what that means. I may have phrased it in an excessively doomy-gloomy way.
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Post by shinobiwan on Apr 2, 2019 19:39:29 GMT
Oh god...DA4 with Anthems loot system?....-shiver- They got years to learn lessons...oh, wait, they had years to learn the same lessons from SWTOR...Third time the charm? To be fair, it sounds like Austin badly wanted to implement lessons learned from SWTOR, and Edmonton said fuck off.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2019 19:42:49 GMT
So, here's the big question:
DA4? Pre-order cancelled?
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2019 19:43:31 GMT
They got years to learn lessons...oh, wait, they had years to learn the same lessons from SWTOR...Third time the charm? To be fair, it sounds like Austin badly wanted to implement lessons learned from SWTOR, and Edmonton said fuck off. The most dissapointing thing about that article too. How arrogant Edmonton leadership was in the end.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 2, 2019 19:44:33 GMT
They got years to learn lessons...oh, wait, they had years to learn the same lessons from SWTOR...Third time the charm? To be fair, it sounds like Austin badly wanted to implement lessons learned from SWTOR, and Edmonton said fuck off. I honestly never expected the "A" Team to actually see themselves as such, and treat the rest of the company as inferior....so disappointing. Hopefully...finally...progress can be made.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Apr 2, 2019 19:47:23 GMT
Using the Anthem codebase allows for verticality in Dragon Age 4: Dragonbreed (because that darn Dragonborn was taken aw shux).
You can be a dragon, or ride one.
The gameplay will be a mix of Anthem, Joust, and Pop-A-Mole, with stunning visual fidelity and Awesome Button ™️ mashing.
The characters will all represent races and sexual preferences and portray them in a way that ignores as much of the in-world lore as possible, rather going for commentary on IRL politics because it is important to have a message.
It will be lucky to be made. Every decision is dumber than the last and reading both the blog (first) then the article, I am just grossed out.
I'm here for the legacy games and the popcorn.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 2, 2019 19:47:31 GMT
Oh god...DA4 with Anthems loot system?....-shiver- They got years to learn lessons...oh, wait, they had years to learn the same lessons from SWTOR...Third time the charm? I think that's why the Austin team wanted more input on Anthems development, and likely why they're likely the better studio to handle it; though they still have to deal with spaghetti code. Tinfoil hat conspiracy, but I wonder if Ben Irving (lead producer for Anthem) having been removed from SWTOR for his poor stewardship is what led to Austin studios advice being ignored. Maybe some bad blood between him and Austin. The article hints at the Austin studios advice not being heeded by the leads at Edmonton, though it also says some of the developers at Edmonton clashed with those at Austin as well.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 2, 2019 19:49:58 GMT
Holy shit, that is a depressing read... Essentially 12 months of crunch to get the game out in EA's fiscal Q4...sounds "ME:A"-familiar, doesn't it? There are always "heroes" in these situations and it sounds like Mark Darrah was the adult in the room and got them working together to ship it on time. Also, Frostbite can go off and die somewhere..."full of razor blades"...Jesus EA needs to give BioWare the time to develop "Dragon Age 4"...they can't repeat this. Frostbite absolutely needs to go. It's a terrible engine and seems to be one of the major common threads between DAI's, MEA's, and Anthem's development issues. I'm thinking I'd rather see DA4 be made with the Unity engine than Frostbite at this point...
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 2, 2019 19:50:28 GMT
A fascinating article but, to be honest, after reading that I would never have believed they could have turned it around to achieve as good a game as they have done. Bugs aside, I enjoy the gameplay, I enjoy the story and I find it hard to put the game down to such an extent that it's eating up my weekends. If this is what they can do with all of the things that were against them I have high hopes that it only gets better from here. I agree, it's very much my favorite game of 2019 (so far), but I also read credible truth in Jason's words. It's in BioWare's hands now to do good things going forward. So, here's the big question: DA4? Pre-order cancelled? Hardly, I've never bought a BioWare game I didn't hugely enjoy, and that didn't change with Anthem. I'll be pre-ordering with a clear conscience.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 2, 2019 19:53:45 GMT
Frostbite absolutely needs to go. It's a terrible engine and seems to be one of the major common threads between DAI's, MEA's, and Anthem's development issues. I'm thinking I'd rather see DA4 be made with the Unity engine than Frostbite at this point... Is Riccitello at the lead of Unity now, isn't it? Is see a faint chance to have another inside job preparing for EA hostile takeover and Unity for DA4.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2019 20:00:08 GMT
A fascinating article but, to be honest, after reading that I would never have believed they could have turned it around to achieve as good a game as they have done. Bugs aside, I enjoy the gameplay, I enjoy the story and I find it hard to put the game down to such an extent that it's eating up my weekends. If this is what they can do with all of the things that were against them I have high hopes that it only gets better from here. I agree, it's very much my favorite game of 2019 (so far), but I also read credible truth in Jason's words. It's in BioWare's hands now to do good things going forward. So, here's the big question: DA4? Pre-order cancelled? Hardly, I've never bought a BioWare game I didn't hugely enjoy, and that didn't change with Anthem. I'll be pre-ordering with a clear conscience. Good luck to ya then. Personally, I'm waiting for news on PlayStation Next Spider-Man (it's gonna have Venom in it! Yay!) And RE3 Remake.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 2, 2019 20:04:14 GMT
A fascinating article but, to be honest, after reading that I would never have believed they could have turned it around to achieve as good a game as they have done. Bugs aside, I enjoy the gameplay, I enjoy the story and I find it hard to put the game down to such an extent that it's eating up my weekends. If this is what they can do with all of the things that were against them I have high hopes that it only gets better from here. Careful, saying anything positive about the game is illegal here. Remember the "Anthem Salt" tweets? This place is biased af, but not AGAINST Anthem.
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bshep
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Apr 2, 2019 20:04:20 GMT
A fascinating article but, to be honest, after reading that I would never have believed they could have turned it around to achieve as good a game as they have done. Bugs aside, I enjoy the gameplay, I enjoy the story and I find it hard to put the game down to such an extent that it's eating up my weekends. If this is what they can do with all of the things that were against them I have high hopes that it only gets better from here. I agree, it's very much my favorite game of 2019 (so far), but I also read credible truth in Jason's words. It's in BioWare's hands now to do good things going forward.So, here's the big question: DA4? Pre-order cancelled? Hardly, I've never bought a BioWare game I didn't hugely enjoy, and that didn't change with Anthem. I'll be pre-ordering with a clear conscience. Yeah, keep working the game and fix those crunch habits.
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Post by shinobiwan on Apr 2, 2019 20:09:17 GMT
Manveer "White Tears" Heir using chiming in on the controversy. Pretty sure he wasn't released on stress leave, lol.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 2, 2019 20:14:38 GMT
The gameplay will be a mix of Anthem, Joust, and Pop-A-Mole, with stunning visual fidelity and Awesome Button ™️ mashing. You had me at "Joust."
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 2, 2019 20:16:15 GMT
Personally, I'm waiting for news on PlayStation Next Spider-Man (it's gonna have Venom in it! Yay!) And RE3 Remake. The recent Spiderman game was excellent I'd like to play another certainly. RE is less of my kind of thing, but enjoy...
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Post by Reznore on Apr 2, 2019 20:18:36 GMT
Careful, saying anything positive about the game is illegal here. You can still enjoy the game and cheer about it. Reading the article, Anthem could have been much much worse. There is still some polish here and there and some interesting features.
Still it's hard to cheer when you pay for something and read people working on it are miserable and falling into depression. I'm not super fond of enabling an industry that ends up crushing their employee mental/personal lives. Frankly at this point I'd rather have smaller more tight games and pay a bit more. Also I'm sick and tired of Bioware guiltripping the fans over the years, sure some devs have been harassed in a very vicious manner by fans, but Bioware/EA/the game industries should also take their responsibilities, they are also driving their employees over the edge.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Apr 2, 2019 20:18:47 GMT
I agree, it's very much my favorite game of 2019 (so far), but I also read credible truth in Jason's words. It's in BioWare's hands now to do good things going forward.Hardly, I've never bought a BioWare game I didn't hugely enjoy, and that didn't change with Anthem. I'll be pre-ordering with a clear conscience. Yeah, keep working the game and fix those crunch habits. It's that simple, isn't it? Fix those crunch habits, and it's all better! I get it now! <furrowed brow creases> Wait... How do you fix those crunch habits? What is a crunch habit? A crunch "habit" is the result of chronic mismanagement. How do you propose fixing that? Firing all the managers? I agree they should all be fired, but that's only a bloodletting. It doesn't heal the wound, and after firing that group of morons you are left with a void. I'm sure quality people will rush to fill those spots, absolutely sure of it. Not even sure what "keep working the game" means, unless you mean that BioWare are actually grifters and you admit you like to be taken by con men masquerading as game developers, then uh ok
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Apr 2, 2019 20:20:17 GMT
The gameplay will be a mix of Anthem, Joust, and Pop-A-Mole, with stunning visual fidelity and Awesome Button ™️ mashing. You had me at "Joust." I'll admit, as I was writing that part, I was thinking "Well shit, I want to play this bad game I'm describing." Your point is well made
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2019 20:21:31 GMT
Personally, I'm waiting for news on PlayStation Next Spider-Man (it's gonna have Venom in it! Yay!) And RE3 Remake. The recent Spiderman game was excellent I'd like to play another certainly. RE is less of my kind of thing, but enjoy... I'm wondering if the next Spidey game will have New York as a bigger and more explorable place. And if they'll add Brooklyn as a explorable area too (seeing as Miles is from Brooklyn...)
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 2, 2019 20:24:05 GMT
I'm wondering if the next Spidey game will have New York as a bigger and more explorable place. And if they'll add Brooklyn as a explorable area too (seeing as Miles is from Brooklyn...) If there isn't a thread to speculate about the next game, you should start one.
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Post by Superhik on Apr 2, 2019 20:24:51 GMT
As depressing as article reads, the part about making a demo for EA's CEO really made me chuckle.
Bioware: " We need to make a demo to impress this guy! Let's add flying and some pretty graphics!!"
Sonderlund goes: "Ohhhhhh, look at how good it is!"
( Lol, what is this guy, a six year old? )
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Post by smilesja on Apr 2, 2019 20:30:24 GMT
Careful, saying anything positive about the game is illegal here. You can still enjoy the game and cheer about it. Reading the article, Anthem could have been much much worse. There is still some polish here and there and some interesting features.
Still it's hard to cheer when you pay for something and read people working on it are miserable and falling into depression. I'm not super fond of enabling an industry that ends up crushing their employee mental/personal lives. Frankly at this point I'd rather have smaller more tight games and pay a bit more. Also I'm sick and tired of Bioware guiltripping the fans over the years, sure some devs have been harassed in a very vicious manner by fans, but Bioware/EA/the game industries should also take their responsibilities, they are also driving their employees over the edge.
Oh no I’m disagreeing with what happened to the employees. What happened to them is horrible, I just hope they get a lighter workload sadly this problem is widespread.
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Post by 10k on Apr 2, 2019 20:32:26 GMT
Yeah, keep working the game and fix those crunch habits. It's that simple, isn't it? Fix those crunch habits, and it's all better! I get it now! <furrowed brow creases> Wait... How do you fix those crunch habits? What is a crunch habit? A crunch "habit" is the result of chronic mismanagement. How do you propose fixing that? Firing all the managers? I agree they should all be fired, but that's only a bloodletting. It doesn't heal the wound, and after firing that group of morons you are left with a void. I'm sure quality people will rush to fill those spots, absolutely sure of it. Not even sure what "keep working the game" means, unless you mean that BioWare are actually grifters and you admit you like to be taken by con men masquerading as game developers, then uh ok I don't know if these people care or not. From what I've read they just want to play a "fun" game, even at BW employee's expense.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Apr 2, 2019 20:37:14 GMT
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