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Post by PillarBiter on Apr 27, 2019 7:54:37 GMT
Reading through your guide again. If you say that everything is one of the 5 typed damages (exceptions excluded), does that mean - for example - that sticky grenade of the ranger , or the ranger ultimate is impact AND blast type? And does that also mean that if you equip the + 50% blast, -20% impact component, these 2 actually increase with damage by 30%?
So confusing, bioware...
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Post by aznricepuff on Apr 27, 2019 13:31:46 GMT
Reading through your guide again. If you say that everything is one of the 5 typed damages (exceptions excluded), does that mean - for example - that sticky grenade of the ranger , or the ranger ultimate is impact AND blast type? And does that also mean that if you equip the + 50% blast, -20% impact component, these 2 actually increase with damage by 30%? Yes, things can be typed as both Impact (now Kinetic) and Blast. The ranger components are confusing. I allude to this in the guide a bit but held off on giving a full breakdown because I don't understand all the details yet. BUT...broadly speaking, (and to be clear this is just for the two ranger components): +/-blast affects everything that's typed as blast, while +/-impact affects everything that isn't typed as blast (regardless of whether it is also typed as kinetic). It's easier to think of the categories as "blast" and "not blast" rather than "blast" and "impact/kinetic". So in your examples, they would receive the +50% to blast only. HOWEVER...while the +/-blast part works more or less as you'd expect, not everything that is "not blast" is affected by the +/-impact part. For example, ranger melee, fire DoT, and combos are not typed as blast, yet none of them receive the bonus/penalty to impact from the components (combos don't seem to receive any typed modifiers, so I guess you can rationalize that one but this doesn't explain the other two examples).
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Post by PillarBiter on May 13, 2019 6:21:08 GMT
Hey Aznricepuff, am I correct in assuming that the mark of wrath proc is affected by ponder infinity's masterwork?
If so, this adds quite a bit to combo damage...
Also, any idea how large the mark of wrath proc area is?
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Post by aznricepuff on May 13, 2019 13:25:57 GMT
Hey Aznricepuff, am I correct in assuming that the mark of wrath proc is affected by ponder infinity's masterwork? If so, this adds quite a bit to combo damage... Also, any idea how large the mark of wrath proc area is? Yes it is, and because MoW is a proc, the bonus is doubled to +330%. This and the same synergy it has with ToY is what makes Ponder Infinity so "meta" right now for Storms. As for the AoE, I'm not sure. It's not huge - it's almost certainly less than the AoE for status effect spread for storm combos. That said, it's large enough that enemies don't have to be touching each other for the proc to reach them. I know that's not very helpful but it's hard to quantify AoE radius in this game.
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Post by PillarBiter on May 13, 2019 14:00:15 GMT
Hey Aznricepuff, am I correct in assuming that the mark of wrath proc is affected by ponder infinity's masterwork? If so, this adds quite a bit to combo damage... Also, any idea how large the mark of wrath proc area is? Yes it is, and because MoW is a proc, the bonus is doubled to +330%. This and the same synergy it has with ToY is what makes Ponder Infinity so "meta" right now for Storms. As for the AoE, I'm not sure. It's not huge - it's almost certainly less than the AoE for status effect spread for storm combos. That said, it's large enough that enemies don't have to be touching each other for the proc to reach them. I know that's not very helpful but it's hard to quantify AoE radius in this game. Nice. This (MoW proc = 60% of combo damage) essentially (0.6*(1+3.3)=2,6) triples-and-a-half singular combo damage for a storm, with double-and-a-half combo damage to a small area. Except against armor... But still, mustn't complain. Not taking into account any other elemental / lightning damage bonuses. Ponder infinity is indeed a must-have right now. But, it was due this fact, I believe... The signature storm move SHOULD be awe-inspiring
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Post by grohuf on May 13, 2019 19:23:43 GMT
Recieved link to this great thread and I wanted to point that I recieved totally different values for weakpoint damage. While weakpoint damage formula looks correct values in the table are totally wrong (from my perspective). I did tests couple days ago on bandit head. And I recieved that target_weak_point_factor = 0.75. I took source_weak_point_factor from AnthemArchive. And those values was very accurate. But your values are totally different. After looking to your values I realized that you divided weapon multipliers by 2 and increased source weakpoint factor by same amount. I think AnthemArchive takes values from in game database so I suppose it's better to use theirs. Moreover base multiplier "1" looks much better than "0.5"
Also I want to point out the fact that Burn damage depends on the source. I did test with my colossus and burn damage from flame thrower, Rubidium Furnace and Ralner's Blaze is totally different. Moreover burn damage from Flame thrower and flame wall scales from +% fire bonuses while burn damage of Ralner's Blaze is fixed and cannot be changed.
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Post by PillarBiter on May 14, 2019 6:41:57 GMT
while burn damage of Ralner's Blaze is fixed and cannot be changed. wait, is this true? Because I use the fire component on my storm just for increasing that... And are you talking about the proc? or the DPS fire damage?
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Post by grohuf on May 14, 2019 7:17:07 GMT
while burn damage of Ralner's Blaze is fixed and cannot be changed. wait, is this true? Because I use the fire component on my storm just for increasing that... And are you talking about the proc? or the DPS fire damage? I spoke about burn damage. Proc scales normally. But I tested about month ago. Some patches could fix this.
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Post by aznricepuff on May 14, 2019 15:01:09 GMT
After looking to your values I realized that you divided weapon multipliers by 2 and increased source weakpoint factor by same amount. I think AnthemArchive takes values from in game database so I suppose it's better to use theirs. Moreover base multiplier "1" looks much better than "0.5" If it helps, think of [source weak-point factor] as the "default" additional damage factor over a non-weak-point hit, which [target weak-point factor] and weak-point bonuses then modify multiplicatively. Also I want to point out the fact that Burn damage depends on the source. I've never noticed this before. I'll have to check again. Moreover burn damage from Flame thrower and flame wall scales from +% fire bonuses while burn damage of Ralner's Blaze is fixed and cannot be changed. Yes, the fire DoT from ralnar's blaze is currently bugged and doesn't receive any damage bonuses.
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Post by grohuf on May 14, 2019 16:10:28 GMT
If it helps, think of [source weak-point factor] as the "default" additional damage factor over a non-weak-point hit, which [target weak-point factor] and weak-point bonuses then modify multiplicatively. I suggest to adjust your values because AnthemArchive have twice bigger. Moreover it looks better when default multiplier is equal to "1". But it's your guide.
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Post by grohuf on May 14, 2019 18:54:32 GMT
I've never noticed this before. I'll have to check again. I checked it again today. When I tested this one month ago I did not used "naked" gear (without any bonuses which can affect damage) and I did have less knowledge about mechanics of the game. Now I can say that this is looks like scaling issue. Ralner's Blaze burn do not scale at all. Flamethrower burn scale once. And burn from the wall scales twice from +%fire damage. Moreover if you hit mob directly by the Furnace projectile then first he will recieve once scaled damage but then (when wall start to affect him) he will recieve double scaled damage. BTW, You don't have Divine Vengeance in your table. It has damage 17835 on max GS (130 base damage).
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Post by PillarBiter on May 16, 2019 7:00:54 GMT
A combo functionality question. So we know that fire and ice status effects cancel each other out, which makes it possible for some setups to combo repeatedly very fast. However, my question regards the functionality of other status effects. 1) For example: if an enemy is primed with both acid and fire, and you detonate, will it only detonate a combo with normal dage? Or with double damage? Because as I've noticed, it only detonates with normal damage, and the other status effect is 'lost' as a primer, i.e., it's no longe rpossible to detonate off of that. 1b) Also, is there a priority list for the status effects? For example, if an enemy is primed with both acid, lightning and fire, it will always detonate the fire combo. And if an enemy is primed with both acid and lightning, it will always detonate the lightning combo. In order to counteract simultaneous effects resulting in a lost combo potential, I often try to first prime with fire, combo, and then prime with acid, and combo again. HOWEVER. The second detonation does not always immediately combo. I detonate the fire combo, I apply acid, I try to detonate, it does nothing. I wait a few seconds, I try to detonate again, and then acid combo's. 2) is there some sort of cooldown timer between combo's that is not present when you switch between fire and ice, but IS present when you switch between other status effects like fire and acid, or ligthnign and ice? Cheers for your help. I;d just like to know to optimise my gameplay style
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Post by aznricepuff on May 16, 2019 21:37:25 GMT
I suggest to adjust your values because AnthemArchive have twice bigger. Moreover it looks better when default multiplier is equal to "1". But it's your guide. After thinking about it some more, I decided to make the adjustment after all since I think it's more intuitive to think of the default bonus as being tied to the target weak-point and then being adjusted by what dealt the damage rather than the other way around. BTW, You don't have Divine Vengeance in your table. It has damage 17835 on max GS (130 base damage). I tested and I got 100 base damage. Note that the proc is fire damage, not kinetic (even though the floaties are white). A combo functionality question. [snip] Updated the guide with the relevant information. Quick summary: if multiple primers are active, then priority for detonation goes fire/ice > electric > acid. There is no "cooldown" per se between combos, but as long as any consumed status effect exists on an enemy it cannot be detonated, even if the enemy has other non-consumed status effects. This explains why you can chain combos faster with fire/ice: applying ice after detonating fire (or vice versa) will clear the consumed status effect, allowing you to immediately detonate another combo; otherwise you have to wait for the first status effect to expire.
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Post by PillarBiter on May 17, 2019 6:25:54 GMT
I suggest to adjust your values because AnthemArchive have twice bigger. Moreover it looks better when default multiplier is equal to "1". But it's your guide. After thinking about it some more, I decided to make the adjustment after all since I think it's more intuitive to think of the default bonus as being tied to the target weak-point and then being adjusted by what dealt the damage rather than the other way around. BTW, You don't have Divine Vengeance in your table. It has damage 17835 on max GS (130 base damage). I tested and I got 100 base damage. Note that the proc is fire damage, not kinetic (even though the floaties are white). A combo functionality question. [snip] Updated the guide with the relevant information. Quick summary: if multiple primers are active, then priority for detonation goes fire/ice > electric > acid. There is no "cooldown" per se between combos, but as long as any consumed status effect exists on an enemy it cannot be detonated, even if the enemy has other non-consumed status effects. This explains why you can chain combos faster with fire/ice: applying ice after detonating fire (or vice versa) will clear the consumed status effect, allowing you to immediately detonate another combo; otherwise you have to wait for the first status effect to expire. Ahh, makes sense. Cheers. One follow up question then: do all status effect have the same duration? Or do they last different amount of times?
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Post by aznricepuff on May 17, 2019 14:59:54 GMT
One follow up question then: do all status effect have the same duration? Or do they last different amount of times? They all seem to have the same duration.
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Post by PillarBiter on May 17, 2019 17:19:27 GMT
One follow up question then: do all status effect have the same duration? Or do they last different amount of times? They all seem to have the same duration. Verdammt! No combo sequence optimisation possible, then 😜
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Post by grohuf on May 19, 2019 22:17:45 GMT
I tested and I got 100 base damage. Note that the proc is fire damage, not kinetic (even though the floaties are white). Looks like I did have Emblem of Destruction equipped. Well, that's bad then. Because this weapon is less useful.
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Post by PillarBiter on May 20, 2019 6:48:08 GMT
I tested and I got 100 base damage. Note that the proc is fire damage, not kinetic (even though the floaties are white). Looks like I did have Emblem of Destruction equipped. Well, that's bad then. Because this weapon is less useful. The meta of the weapon is has some niche applications. Like being able to proc the heavy's from the front through the shield if you aim at the back tanks.
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Post by grohuf on May 20, 2019 10:15:23 GMT
I will try it when I will have good rolled legendary.
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Post by PillarBiter on May 21, 2019 7:51:07 GMT
ricepuff, what exactly does 'Force' do, or on what is it applicable? Do enemies have 'Force' resistance?
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Post by aznricepuff on May 21, 2019 16:58:03 GMT
ricepuff, what exactly does 'Force' do, or on what is it applicable? Do enemies have 'Force' resistance? It's what determines if an enemy gets staggered or knocked down when they're damaged. I assume larger enemies require more force to be staggered/knocked down.
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Post by kyngston on May 22, 2019 5:02:56 GMT
Hi everyone. I'm just put together an Anthem Stats web app: javelin-stats.com, using the damage equations from here and from the Algorithmic Freelancers. It lets you input your build, will calculate your stats, and damage number, and let you share builds with others. For example my Storm is: bit.ly/2HvArDRI thought it might be useful for folks here who are reverse engineering the damage numbers, as a way to codify the conclusions you guys reach. Also it would be a great help if you guys submitted bug reports where my damage calculations are incorrect? Keep up the good work!
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Post by grohuf on May 30, 2019 13:17:44 GMT
Quick summary: if multiple primers are active, then priority for detonation goes fire/ice > electric > acid. There is no "cooldown" per se between combos, but as long as any consumed status effect exists on an enemy it cannot be detonated, even if the enemy has other non-consumed status effects. This explains why you can chain combos faster with fire/ice: applying ice after detonating fire (or vice versa) will clear the consumed status effect, allowing you to immediately detonate another combo; otherwise you have to wait for the first status effect to expire. They fixed this bug with primers. One of the best change of the 1.2.0 patch (on top of question marks in freeplay). BTW colossus by jumping melee attack can explode two primers at once (I suppose this is a bug).
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Post by ximae on Jun 6, 2019 18:29:33 GMT
Looks like we have some more testing ahead of us. Ptr.. sorry pts seems to have been subject to some balancing and numbers for some of the item based damage seem lower than they should.
not sure if its base damage modifications or the per item level scalar seems to be lower id also add they might have gotten rid of doubledipping. At least that is my impression regarding procs, i have my wrath one pretty mapped out and its doing way less damage than it should even if im not dpubledipping the elemental. So it could easily affect more damage sources.
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Post by ximae on Jun 7, 2019 9:48:21 GMT
Ok i have figured out some things in the pts.
procs: they no longer ítem level scale, they have a fixed base damage disregarding your gearscore but have different values regarding the ítems rarity, so legendaries have a higher base damage this value seems arbitrary.
edit: more strangeness, mark of wrath proc still doubledips on elemental and blast. but the weapon procs from yvenia, ralners, etc and stasis chain dont.
mark of wrath master work -> 2640 -- legendary 2640 stasis chain master work -> 1867 -- legendary 5608 ralners master work -> 1493 -- legendary -> 5806 yvenia master work -> 1867 -- legendary 2640 divine vengance masterwork -> 1493 -- legendary 2112
new windwall master work -> 8062 -- legendary xxxx
this one is very odd or seems to be bugged. 35% elemental damage reduced its damage by 20% and 35% blast damage increased it by 20% ill post a report on this.
Melee, ult and combo damage: these still scale per ilevel/gs and they seem to behave as before granting a 7.1-7.2% damage increase per legendary swapped from masterwork. Combo damage inscriptions in components had no effect. combo sigils dont doubledip anymore, a 30% sigil means 30% extra combo damage.
havent done any furthr testing, nor have much gear to really test into the higher gs scores.
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