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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 13, 2019 23:55:33 GMT
Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, produced by Respawn Entertainment and EA's next big game is, in all likely, being developed using Unreal Engine. The trailer released today features no gameplay footage. However, it states that it is created in Unreal, and given that the game itself is coming relatively soon, on November 15th (7 months from now), I guess we have reasons to speculate that it will be an Unreal Engine game. If so, that strengthens the narrative that using Frostbite Engine for Bioware games was Bioware's own decision, rather than EA forcing all of their studios to use Frostbite. EA bought Respawn in 2017. Speculation is that Fallen Order was already in development at the time of the acquisition and was already UR4 based. Rather that start over again and delay the release schedule, they stuck with Unreal. WHEN to switch to Frostbite was definitely Bioware's decision, that's already confirmed. That all properties under EA had to switch to Frostbite, at some point, was EA's decision -- at least that's what's implied by Jason Schrierer's article. There's probably also a drop dead date, like, all games starting production after 20XX have to be on Frostbite.
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I don't stir, I work the material.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Apr 14, 2019 0:00:25 GMT
Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, produced by Respawn Entertainment and EA's next big game is, in all likely, being developed using Unreal Engine. The trailer released today features no gameplay footage. However, it states that it is created in Unreal, and given that the game itself is coming relatively soon, on November 15th (7 months from now), I guess we have reasons to speculate that it will be an Unreal Engine game. If so, that strengthens the narrative that using Frostbite Engine for Bioware games was Bioware's own decision, rather than EA forcing all of their studios to use Frostbite. EA bought Respawn in 2017. Speculation is that Fallen Order was already in development at the time of the acquisition and was already UR4 based. Rather that start over again and delay the release schedule, they stuck with Unreal. WHEN to switch to Frostbite was definitely Bioware's decision, that's already confirmed. That all properties under EA had to switch to Frostbite, at some point, was EA's decision -- at least that's what's implied by Jason Schrierer's article. There's probably also a drop dead date, like, all games starting production after 20XX have to be on Frostbite. So..why not go to a new engine then? Keep in mind indie devs have created new engines in the space of a year. They have nothing of EA's budget.
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 14, 2019 1:06:02 GMT
EA bought Respawn in 2017. Speculation is that Fallen Order was already in development at the time of the acquisition and was already UR4 based. Rather that start over again and delay the release schedule, they stuck with Unreal. WHEN to switch to Frostbite was definitely Bioware's decision, that's already confirmed. That all properties under EA had to switch to Frostbite, at some point, was EA's decision -- at least that's what's implied by Jason Schrierer's article. There's probably also a drop dead date, like, all games starting production after 20XX have to be on Frostbite. That very same story was said when Apex Legends came out using Source Engine, which at the time made sense, since Titanfall games were also built on the Source Engine and Apex Legends was likely in development before Respawn was bought by EA. If Jedi Fallen Order were built on the Source Engine as well, I would give this argument much credit, since it would be an extension of the same story made for Apex Legends. But we are talking about a third engine here, Unreal, and that spices up the whole story I reckon. Your argument is something to be considered, but I am somewhat skeptical still. I think the move to Unreal might have taken place before Respawn got purchased, indeed, but it would be absurd that Respawn was until then oblivious to the fact they would be shortly after closing a 455-million-dollar deal with a publisher that demands their own Frostbite engine only to be used. I think Respawn would be at least considering the move to Frostbite if they had to adapt to EA standards (but perhaps they didn't have to?).
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 14, 2019 17:45:58 GMT
EA bought Respawn in 2017. Speculation is that Fallen Order was already in development at the time of the acquisition and was already UR4 based. Rather that start over again and delay the release schedule, they stuck with Unreal. WHEN to switch to Frostbite was definitely Bioware's decision, that's already confirmed. That all properties under EA had to switch to Frostbite, at some point, was EA's decision -- at least that's what's implied by Jason Schrierer's article. There's probably also a drop dead date, like, all games starting production after 20XX have to be on Frostbite. That very same story was said when Apex Legends came out using Source Engine, which at the time made sense, since Titanfall games were also built on the Source Engine and Apex Legends was likely in development before Respawn was bought by EA. If Jedi Fallen Order were built on the Source Engine as well, I would give this argument much credit, since it would be an extension of the same story made for Apex Legends. But we are talking about a third engine here, Unreal, and that spices up the whole story I reckon. Your argument is something to be considered, but I am somewhat skeptical still. I think the move to Unreal might have taken place before Respawn got purchased, indeed, but it would be absurd that Respawn was until then oblivious to the fact they would be shortly after closing a 455-million-dollar deal with a publisher that demands their own Frostbite engine only to be used. I think Respawn would be at least considering the move to Frostbite if they had to adapt to EA standards (but perhaps they didn't have to?). It's all about timing. As long as the game was in production before acquisition, it would make sense to prioritize the ship date and get some revenue for the money you just spent acquiring the company. Assuming the EA mandate continues -- and it may not, since Soderlund is gone now -- it will mean that the follow-up sequel to Fallen Order and/or Apex Legends would need to be on Frostbite. If either, and particularly if both, end up not being on Frostbite, it should open the door to Bioware doing whatever they want.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on May 1, 2019 14:41:34 GMT
More grist for the mill. In a 2015 interview, Patrick Soderlund DENIED making Frostbite a mandate. Quote, "It was discussed whether we should just mandate everyone to use Frostbite, and I was not in the same position I am today, this was 10 years ago, but I just said, 'Listen, that won't work.'" www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-07-06-soderlundOn the other hand, FIFA 18 switched to Frostbite, after Soderlund's departure. Now why would they go through the immense re-engineering cost to do that, if there weren't some kind of pressure/incentive? What possible advantage could a sports game get from Frostbite technology, apart from the consolidation of support cost and tooling? |
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 2,943 Likes: 3,550
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Post by linksocarina on May 2, 2019 17:31:18 GMT
More grist for the mill. In a 2015 interview, Patrick Soderlund DENIED making Frostbite a mandate. Quote, "It was discussed whether we should just mandate everyone to use Frostbite, and I was not in the same position I am today, this was 10 years ago, but I just said, 'Listen, that won't work.'" www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-07-06-soderlundOn the other hand, FIFA 18 switched to Frostbite, after Soderlund's departure. Now why would they go through the immense re-engineering cost to do that, if there weren't some kind of pressure/incentive? What possible advantage could a sports game get from Frostbite technology, apart from the consolidation of support cost and tooling? I presume the incentive is a cost cutting measure over licensing an engine. I am not well versed in how that works though. |
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,735 Likes: 4,919
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on May 3, 2019 9:26:37 GMT
More grist for the mill. In a 2015 interview, Patrick Soderlund DENIED making Frostbite a mandate. Quote, "It was discussed whether we should just mandate everyone to use Frostbite, and I was not in the same position I am today, this was 10 years ago, but I just said, 'Listen, that won't work.'" www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-07-06-soderlundOn the other hand, FIFA 18 switched to Frostbite, after Soderlund's departure. Now why would they go through the immense re-engineering cost to do that, if there weren't some kind of pressure/incentive? What possible advantage could a sports game get from Frostbite technology, apart from the consolidation of support cost and tooling? I presume the incentive is a cost cutting measure over licensing an engine. I am not well versed in how that works though. There are a lot of specifics surrounding their reason to go Frostbite instead of Unreal that we have no clue whatsoever about. Still not stopping any a-hole clickbaiter to post a garbage view on on YT about it though. 
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Looking forward to Netflix's The Defenders
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Post by Sartoz on May 3, 2019 10:03:33 GMT
I presume the incentive is a cost cutting measure over licensing an engine. I am not well versed in how that works though. There are a lot of specifics surrounding their reason to go Frostbite instead of Unreal that we have no clue whatsoever about. Still not stopping any a-hole clickbaiter to post a garbage view on on YT about it though.
As opposed to whose view that you would approve?
Regardless, using FB implies an ease with looter-shooters and MP, plus the pretties. And to me, it also implies that EA wants to go that route.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,735 Likes: 4,919
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
2,735
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on May 3, 2019 11:29:40 GMT
There are a lot of specifics surrounding their reason to go Frostbite instead of Unreal that we have no clue whatsoever about. Still not stopping any a-hole clickbaiter to post a garbage view on on YT about it though.
As opposed to whose view that you would approve?
Regardless, using FB implies an ease with looter-shooters and MP, plus the pretties. And to me, it also implies that EA wants to go that route.
If you have any actual facts in the matter and details surrounding whatever actual agreement or contract BioWare/EA signed, sealed regarding Frostbite. By all means do share.
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Post by vorchainteriordesign on May 4, 2019 23:26:03 GMT
FROSTBITE NOT PROBLEM, EVEN VORCHA KNOW.
PROBLEM IS BAD LEADERSHIP, NO SHEPARD OR BLOOD PACK!
GOOD LEADERS TAKE FROSTBITE AND THROW IN TRASH CAN, PROBLEM SOLVED NEXT!
BAD LEADERS SWIM IN LATRINE AND COMPLAIN THE WATER STINKS!
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Dissertation Crunching
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Post by biggydx on May 5, 2019 2:32:10 GMT
How come developer feedback on the engine doesn't factor into this? Soderland deciding whether or not he wants to mandate the engine has no bearing when the devs are ultimately the ones who have to put up with it. We keep making this about who's to blame with regards to WHY BioWare is using the engine, when we already know BioWare signed onto it. The question should be whether its feasible for the studio to continue working on the engine; to which I say no.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Heimdall on May 5, 2019 12:23:49 GMT
If I recall, it was Aaron Flynn’s decision to switch BioWare over to Frostbite for all games, maybe that will change now that Casey Hudson has his position.
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Post by biggydx on May 5, 2019 12:32:12 GMT
If I recall, it was Aaron Flynn’s decision to switch BioWare over to Frostbite for all games, maybe that will change now that Casey Hudson has his position. If Mass Effect ends up being BioWares next project - after Dragon Age - than that'll be test to see if they choose to use another engine. |
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,735 Likes: 4,919
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0
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
2,735
August 2016
correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on May 6, 2019 14:11:13 GMT
How come developer feedback on the engine doesn't factor into this? Soderland deciding whether or not he wants to mandate the engine has no bearing when the devs are ultimately the ones who have to put up with it. We keep making this about who's to blame with regards to WHY BioWare is using the engine, when we already know BioWare signed onto it. The question should be whether its feasible for the studio to continue working on the engine; to which I say no.Tell it to Casey.
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Gileadan
N4
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,007 Likes: 4,811
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Clearance Level Ultra
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Post by Gileadan on May 6, 2019 14:28:45 GMT
Their problem is shitty leadership. If clearly Frostbite was such a problem and BioWare was faffing about with Beyond Anthem without a clue about its direction anyway, any semi-decent quasi-professional leader would have picked a bunch of software engineers and tasked them with nothing else but familiarizing themselves with Frostbite and building tools to facilitate its use in current and future projects. That would have created a solid foundation to build on.
Get some good leadership first. That will solve most other problems.
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Praise the Justicat!
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Post by Pounce de León on May 6, 2019 14:47:48 GMT
FROSTBITE NOT PROBLEM, EVEN VORCHA KNOW. PROBLEM IS BAD LEADERSHIP, NO SHEPARD OR BLOOD PACK! GOOD LEADERS TAKE FROSTBITE AND THROW IN TRASH CAN, PROBLEM SOLVED NEXT! BAD LEADERS SWIM IN LATRINE AND COMPLAIN THE WATER STINKS! You's rong!
Why?
Try working with frostbite. Not good on finger. And because winter has come so often in Edmonton theys sit on their fingers to keep them warm not to contract frostbite.
Is big problem @biower.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Camel on May 6, 2019 18:27:35 GMT
Their problem is shitty leadership. If clearly Frostbite was such a problem and BioWare was faffing about with Beyond Anthem without a clue about its direction anyway, any semi-decent quasi-professional leader would have picked a bunch of software engineers and tasked them with nothing else but familiarizing themselves with Frostbite and building tools to facilitate its use in current and future projects. That would have created a solid foundation to build on. Get some good leadership first. That will solve most other problems. Problem is Bioware trained Frostbite programmers to work on Anthem but EA intervened and moved them to FIFA. How is "good leadership" going to help with corporate meddling?
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Gileadan
N4
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,007 Likes: 4,811
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Clearance Level Ultra
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Post by Gileadan on May 7, 2019 5:52:21 GMT
Problem is Bioware trained Frostbite programmers to work on Anthem but EA intervened and moved them to FIFA. How is "good leadership" going to help with corporate meddling? That is just another leadership problem to fix then, just one level higher. Neither problem can be fixed by the devs themselves anyway, it's up to EA to install a good leadership in their studios as well as getting rid of the yo-yos within their own ranks that fuck up projects with their decisions. It's a frustrating situation. I code for a living too, no in the gaming business, but I run into the same kind of problem every week. People without any hands-on knowledge make decisions for "political" reasons while ignoring any expert in-house advice and then let others deal with the consequences while the deadlines remain the same. Then the project is completed with some crunch and extra effort, and the next project is run in just the same way because hey, it worked last time, right?
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