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Post by colfoley on Apr 11, 2019 20:21:50 GMT
I imagine that one of the first objectives of the game IF you return as the Inquisitor would be to find someone who can grow you a new arm. So, blood magic? or some form of alchemy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 11, 2019 20:22:05 GMT
I imagine that one of the first objectives of the game IF you return as the Inquisitor would be to find someone who can grow you a new arm. Or you already start with a prosthetic, and the tutorial fight is you having to learn how to use it. Then as I've said before, it would explain why they're level 1 again since they need to start from scratch.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 11, 2019 20:28:44 GMT
I imagine that one of the first objectives of the game IF you return as the Inquisitor would be to find someone who can grow you a new arm. Or you already start with a prosthetic, and the tutorial fight is you having to learn how to use it. Then as I've said before, it would explain why they're level 1 again since they need to start from scratch. its not a deal breaker if the Inq has to start over from level 1. Annoying but not a deal braker.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 11, 2019 20:42:38 GMT
I imagine that one of the first objectives of the game IF you return as the Inquisitor would be to find someone who can grow you a new arm. My Inquisitor would ask Dagna to make her/him a mechanical arm. I'm sure Dagna would be smiling ear-to-ear with all kinds of ideas to making an arm.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 11, 2019 20:42:51 GMT
I should point out that the Inquisitor didn't do very well in the current poll.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 11, 2019 20:43:54 GMT
I imagine that one of the first objectives of the game IF you return as the Inquisitor would be to find someone who can grow you a new arm. More than likely they'd show up wielding a badass prosthetic. They have enough money and influence to have stuff built for them, probably heavily enchanted/magical too. Keep in mind that Inquisitor losing part of themselves can be viewed as very symbolic, if not serve as a point of parallel between them and their counterpart, especially IF one of Cole's cryptic comments ("He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap." <- suggests Solas crippled himself in some manner at some point in time) materializes as something substantial in future narrative.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 11, 2019 20:48:19 GMT
I imagine that one of the first objectives of the game IF you return as the Inquisitor would be to find someone who can grow you a new arm. My Inquisitor would ask Dagna to make her/him a mechanical arm. I'm sure Dagna would be smiling ear-to-ear with all kinds of ideas to making an arm. "Hey Dagna, long time no see. Wanna join the Imperium? It'll be just like old times"
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 11, 2019 20:49:25 GMT
I should point out that the Inquisitor didn't do very well in the current poll. What poll? Some sort of official poll? If it's some sort of small fan poll than the sample isn't worth much aside from indicating what that small community wants. I do remember a long time ago how some fans argued that their internal polls indicated that majority of their members want HoF back, hence they demanded BW to bring HoF... needless to say, so far there was no effect. Bioware will do what they will do - naturally, plans change over development, but SO FAR the narrative they've set up indicates that Inky will be present in future narrative in some form, probably not in an insignificant role.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 11, 2019 20:54:00 GMT
The poll on this board.
I agree it's not meaningful, but if you can't sell people on this board on the Inquisitor needing to come back, what's the chance that the Inquisitor is popular with the larger market?
But if people want to speculate on the possible mechanics of something that isn't happening, might as well. We have to fill the next few years up with something.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 11, 2019 20:57:11 GMT
Drop in co-op...
On the one hand if they absolutely have to have multiplayer(spoiler alert, they do not), then I guess it's a good thing they want to do something different with it than a tacked on Horde Mode or Left 4 Dead 2/Vermintide.
On the other hand, and this is the one I'm leaning towards so hard that I need cables suspended from the ceiling to keep me from falling over, I play Bioware games for the story, the dialogue, the characters. The game play has always been a secondary concern, has never been great, and would not be improved by, as Benjamin "Yahtzee" Croshaw would say, another gormless tit either acting as dead weight dragging me down or being pulled along by the leash as I push forward.
You can't even say that "well you get to experience the story together" because 1; everyone has different schedules and availability & and you're either going to have to wait to play the game when you're both available or the other person is going to be left behind. The games have never been particularly difficult enough to justify the theory of needing two people to accomplish a goal and even if they are that kind of falls at the hurtle of assuming all of us know someone who'd like to play co-op and is actually competent enough to be an asset. Lord knows I wouldn't be.
I'd also say the best part of two fans enjoying the story of a bioware game comes from contrasting each other's playthroughs, considering the different decisions and branching paths you chose and explaining your character's motivation for that.
Not to say that there's nothing to be gained in terms of entertainment value from watching someone else's playthrough; I once showed my (at the time) 70 year old grandfather a youtube video of the paragon path story of the Tuchanka arc from ME3 and he greatly enjoyed that. But it was condensed down to just the cut scenes & conversations with none of the gameplay breaking up the pace.
So basically I'm saying that this misses what the core element of the series is, what the fantasy it caters to is, and detracts from rather than adds too the experience. I'm sure some people could enjoy it but I'd argue that catering to that minority of people isn't worth it, that they'd be better off spending their money on a made to purpose game that caters to that kind of experience.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 11, 2019 20:57:13 GMT
I imagine that one of the first objectives of the game IF you return as the Inquisitor would be to find someone who can grow you a new arm. So, blood magic? ENCHANTMENT!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 11, 2019 21:01:20 GMT
Didn't say it was good, although I liked it more than you. Like I said, ME:A may not be a particularly good example of the style, but that doesn't prevent it from being played in the style you like. You've got two unrelated problems with the design. It's not sensible to conflate the two issues, particularly when one of them is avoidable. Remember, we got here because you posted "the cinematic narrative driven (40-ish hours) singleplayer games I loved are a thing of the past.." This doesn't have much to do with the writing quality, unless you figure bad writing is now a design goal at Bio. My point was simply that ME:A is a cinematic narrative-driven 40-ish hour singleplayer game, with a bunch of OW stuff on top of that which you are free to ignore. Ah, I see what you mean. What I meant by "thing of the past" is more related to EA's current GaaS objective. Meaning that regardless of how good their past games were or how good they could be in the future with great ideas and less overworked employees, EA made it clear that they are not interested in pure singleplayer games anymore. Hence the reboot of DA4.
So whether or not MEA counts as a, let's say, "traditional Bioware experience", which you could argue indeed since the distinction I make from DAI (which I still count as one) is indeed mostly one of quality in my eyes, is irrelevant imo for the future. I firmly believe that EA's goals are completely incompatible with the style of past Bioware RPGs.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 11, 2019 21:07:38 GMT
The poll on this board. I agree it's not meaningful, but if you can't sell people on this board on the Inquisitor needing to come back, what's the chance that the Inquisitor is popular with the larger market? But if people want to speculate on the possible mechanics of something that isn't happening, might as well. We have to fill the next few years up with something. It's basically 100% certain that larger market has already forgotten both about Inquisitor AND Solas (and given that DAI was the most recent and best sold out of 3 titles, the chance of majority remembering older PCs and many recurring characters is even smaller) - and so far they seem to want to bring him back regardless. So they can bring whatever and whomever they want to bring - after all, it's not just past chapters that will do all the selling, but the story in the future one as well. So, considering that none of us knows what it is that the'd be selling us anyway, we can't tell with any sort of certainty what will or won't be there. One constant thing about Dragon Age is that it's a series that likes to experiment. Even the article mentions that it's a franchise that likes to meander and shift - so it's disingenuous to say with any sort of confidence something is or isn't happening. I agree we'd be filling this forum with a lot of speculation for quite some time tho.
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 11, 2019 21:07:51 GMT
So, blood magic? ENCHANTMENT! So that's where he gets all that skill from. Shishkebabing skilled runecrafters - dwarves, Tranquil, you name it.
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 11, 2019 21:24:41 GMT
Ah yes, one of my pet peeves. People sometimes ask me why I have such objections to these setups, and the obvious answer "because the world, and human nature, don't work that way, almost all the time" rarely seems to have any weight with them. Having said that, do you really think people are conditioned to think that way IRL by the games? One would think people have the ability to distinguish between fiction and reality. I think if people like these setups, it's because they affirm their morality, and their wish that things would work that way more often, even while remaining aware that they really don't. Most of the time, anyway. There are always a few ignoramuses. I do, actually. Obviously not all by themselves, movies and television do their part too, but games are the most egregious example because the whole purpose is to give you the feeling of accomplishing these things yourself, where other forms of entertainment at least add a layer of dissociation by crediting everything to characters you're only supposed to somewhat identify with. And who can occasionally be clearly seen going through hardship and putting in immense and painful effort, at least vaguely demonstrating that those things are tangentially related to success and positive change. And it's not so much that the problem is widespread, you're right that the vast majority of people really don't have the luxury of being able to afford getting caught up in movie or video game logic like that. It's more that the people mostly influenced are the ones specifically struggling to find purpose and satisfaction in life, making it even harder for them to learn to appreciate constructive and worthwhile occupation at best, and more likely to look for extreme and self-aggrandizing ways to make their mark on society at worst. I've met perfectly ordinary-looking and very intelligent guys who were essentially trying to turn themselves into psychopaths constantly testing out different ideas for impressing women. Not pick-up lines or anything silly like that. Literally trying to mold themselves from moment to moment into the kinds of men they imagined would score best with girls. And completely open about it. Why? Because those tactics worked back when they were picking the most obviously complimentary dialogue options to score approval points with female love interests in games, inevitably culminating in sex and bliss. And it's not like these sorts of influences can't become widespread. The reason I grew up without a dad was essentially that my mother was taught by television and movies that any need for negotiation or compromise in a relationship must be an indication that it was rotten somehow and best left behind for greener pastures. That notion has not exactly abated since then.
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Post by fchopin on Apr 11, 2019 21:52:16 GMT
The problem is that not all people played Trespasser. I did buy Trespasser but i have never played the DLC. So if the Inquisitor makes an appearance in the next game, would your Inquisitor still have his/her left arm? I would hope that the Inquisitor is not in DA4.
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Post by fchopin on Apr 11, 2019 21:56:20 GMT
The problem is that not all people played Trespasser. I did buy Trespasser but i have never played the DLC. Out of idle curiosity, why haven't you? I had problems finishing the game but i did manage eventually and when i got the DLC for some reason i just could not play the game again. I did try so i could play Trespasser but could not do it.
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 11, 2019 22:09:57 GMT
Out of idle curiosity, why haven't you? I had problems finishing the game but i did manage eventually and when i got the DLC for some reason i just could not play the game again. I did try so i could play Trespasser but could not do it. At least you're lucky to have the opportunity to try. My laptop probably can't run it, or Descent.
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Post by river82 on Apr 11, 2019 22:09:59 GMT
The poll on this board. I agree it's not meaningful, but if you can't sell people on this board on the Inquisitor needing to come back, what's the chance that the Inquisitor is popular with the larger market? But if people want to speculate on the possible mechanics of something that isn't happening, might as well. We have to fill the next few years up with something. All it does is get people semi-excited for something that almost certainly won't happen. It's a good way to work yourself up into a rage, and this time it won't be Bioware's fault it'd be 100% the fault of the fans.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 11, 2019 22:28:14 GMT
The poll on this board. I agree it's not meaningful, but if you can't sell people on this board on the Inquisitor needing to come back, what's the chance that the Inquisitor is popular with the larger market? But if people want to speculate on the possible mechanics of something that isn't happening, might as well. We have to fill the next few years up with something. All it does is get people semi-excited for something that almost certainly won't happen. It's a good way to work yourself up into a rage, and this time it won't be Bioware's fault it'd be 100% the fault of the fans. You mean like half-baked rumors make people semi-outraged at stuff the game may have/not have/have in a multitude of different ways?
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Post by river82 on Apr 11, 2019 22:58:25 GMT
All it does is get people semi-excited for something that almost certainly won't happen. It's a good way to work yourself up into a rage, and this time it won't be Bioware's fault it'd be 100% the fault of the fans. You mean like half-baked rumors make people sami-outraged at stuff the game may have/not have/have in a multitude of different ways? Speaking of half-baked rumours, I wonder if somehow I could start one - "Just after Trespasser the Inquisitor fiddled with objects they shouldn't and got themselves transmogrified into a talking cat. A grumpy, talking cat who stalks the protagonist of DA:4. Every time you spot this cat (who has a mechanical paw) and talk with her you will receive 200 crown coins, which you can then spend in Dragon Age's new store (minimum cost of goodies 20,000 crown coins). Bioware are calling this new mini-game 'Where's Inky'!"
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 11, 2019 23:34:07 GMT
I've met perfectly ordinary-looking and very intelligent guys who were essentially trying to turn themselves into psychopaths constantly testing out different ideas for impressing women. Not pick-up lines or anything silly like that. Literally trying to mold themselves from moment to moment into the kinds of men they imagined would score best with girls. And completely open about it. Why? Because those tactics worked back when they were picking the most obviously complimentary dialogue options to score approval points with female love interests in games, inevitably culminating in sex and bliss. That paragraph ended someplace I didn't expect it to. I thought you were talking about PUAs.
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Post by melbella on Apr 12, 2019 1:24:31 GMT
As has been pointed out many times, what they say they wanted to achieve, and what they actually achieved, with Trespasser are not the same things.
What other people think they achieved does not matter - what they think they achieved does, because that's what the development of the next game is going to be based on. Well, yeah, it kinda does, when those other people are your customers and fans. If BW's goal was A but what they did led to a large part of the audience coming to conclusion B, they failed spectacularly in what they were trying to do and may need to re-assess their position. If they stick with A, and build on A, all the while ignoring B, then all the people in B camp are going to be alienated from the story and likely unhappy with what comes next. Unhappy = not going to buy = lost customers.
I'll blame it on me posting at 0-dark-30 before heading to work.
The long version:
You: Bioware was annoyed by fans wanting the Warden back so decided on an absolute position to "never re-use a protag"
Me: Bioware was annoyed by fans hating on ME3's endings so added "Refuse" option
My interpretation of both events: Bioware responded in a reactionary manner to fan criticism, leading them to make decisions based on their level of butthurtness rather what makes sense for the story and/or characters. IMO, choosing Refuse makes absolutely NO sense, but I like Shepard's speech there the best because it sounds like the real Shepard, not the fake one we get in all the other endings. Anyway.....
Does DA2's story, as it is written, make sense with the Warden as the main character? No. But, that doesn't mean that NO STORY EVER would make sense for the Warden to be the PC again. For Bioware to make such a snap judgment in a fit of pique is silly. [Note: I don't care one way or the other on that since I have multiple Wardens; for me, there is no "THE" Warden.]
Similarly, depending on the story we get for DA4, it may not make sense for the Inquisitor to be the main protag. However, based on what happened in Trespasser, it DOES make sense for the Inquisitor to be a very prominent (and, again IMO, playable) character in any situation dealing with Solas. For Bioware to claim otherwise is, quite frankly, just stupid.
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Post by Lazarillo on Apr 12, 2019 1:38:39 GMT
Similarly, depending on the story we get for DA4, it may not make sense for the Inquisitor to be the main protag. However, based on what happened in Trespasser, it DOES make sense for the Inquisitor to be a very prominent (and, again IMO, playable) character in any situation dealing with Solas. For Bioware to claim otherwise is, quite frankly, just stupid. The problem is, the Solas ship has sailed. We had a chance to have a game where an evil Mage with a god complex wanted to go into the Fade and destroy the world so it could be remade to his liking. They could have finished that story in Inquisition. They instead chose to draw it out. So the question is, do we wait for 8+ years for DA4 to be nothing but a rehash because they flubbed Inquisition's storytelling? Or do we sort of casually paint over their mistake in a way that is awkward but actually allows the story to be a fresh and interesting exploration of Thedas as a setting?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 12, 2019 1:41:27 GMT
Similarly, depending on the story we get for DA4, it may not make sense for the Inquisitor to be the main protag. However, based on what happened in Trespasser, it DOES make sense for the Inquisitor to be a very prominent (and, again IMO, playable) character in any situation dealing with Solas. For Bioware to claim otherwise is, quite frankly, just stupid. The problem is, the Solas ship has sailed. We had a chance to have a game where an evil Mage with a god complex wanted to go into the Fade and destroy the world so it could be remade to his liking. They could have finished that story in Inquisition. They instead chose to draw it out. So the question is, do we wait for 8+ years for DA4 to be nothing but a rehash because they flubbed Inquisition's storytelling? Or do we sort of casually paint over their mistake in a way that is awkward but actually allows the story to be a fresh and interesting exploration of Thedas as a setting? Has it? Last I checked the first teaser for the game was about nothing but Solas.
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