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Post by majesticjazz on Apr 9, 2019 20:10:45 GMT
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Don't grow up, it's a trap.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by lilyenachaos on Apr 9, 2019 20:11:40 GMT
At some point soon they have to front up and actually explain what they mean by live service in a sp rpg setting because as you say it’s clearly not sp dlc per say. Well, the goals are pretty clear. The issue, in their terms, is "engagement"; how long do players keep playing? Most SP RPG players are strictly one and-done. Play a character through the campaign, and then it's on to the next game. (If they finish even once, that is.) Drop a DLC in a few months, and some of those players will check back in. But most won't. The trick is to keep the bulk of players playing long enough to actually sell DLC. MP-focused games stick around longer because players are engaged with each other, rather than the campaign. Heavily and easily moddable games stick around too, but that strategy isn't available with Frostbite. I don't know what other strategies are available. I hear AC does something now, but I don't know what. One problem with discussing this here is that the most of the people on this board are pretty much out of the target demographic for the feature. We're not the ones who need to be lured into sticking around. How can people possibly only play through these games once?? Replaying with a different character and picking different dialogues/romances etc is half the fun.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 20:11:56 GMT
Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. Reading between the lines Joplin sounded like a new protagonist which is what I want. who knows now. It read a bit that way to me too, which is a big reason why I'm glad to hear they scrapped Joplin. I mean we've had a different protagonist each DA title, I don't think they ever entertained the idea of continuing with the Inquisitor
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Little Bengel
N3
Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 9, 2019 20:14:23 GMT
Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. Reading between the lines Joplin sounded like a new protagonist which is what I want. who knows now. It read a bit that way to me too, which is a big reason why I'm glad to hear they scrapped Joplin. I doubt they'll change plans on the 'new protagonist per game' that's been the norm for the three games thus far. Morrison will most likely go down the same path as Joplin in that regard. And quite frankly, if they stick to the general idea of playing as spies or some other form, I think it'll be a welcome change. We've played the boss figure, so now it seems appropriate to play as an agent for some force or another.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 9, 2019 20:17:43 GMT
Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. It read a bit that way to me too, which is a big reason why I'm glad to hear they scrapped Joplin. I doubt they'll change plans on the 'new protagonist per game' that's been the norm for the three games thus far. Morrison will most likely go down the same path as Joplin in that regard. And quite frankly, if they stick to the general idea of playing as spies or some other form, I think it'll be a welcome change. We've played the boss figure, so now it seems appropriate to play as an agent for some force or another. What a stupid rule. Screw telling a good story, no we got to have a new person each time.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 9, 2019 20:17:45 GMT
Dragon Age 4, you say? Live service, built on Anthem you say? I’m still hopeful on them being able to do something good, expecially since the article mentions that some sources say it won’t ‘Anthem with dragons’. The fact that it’s still in early development means that Bioware (and EA) could look at the reaction of the lastest release and success of some SP-based games in recent years, as well as games with strong SP modes other then MP modes (RDR2 didn’t even have MP at launch), and decide accordingly... I’m certainly be cautious, though.
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mgsmsc
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mgsmsc on Apr 9, 2019 20:18:08 GMT
I wouldn't mind the community altering your game if it were along the lines of Demon's Souls world tendency mechanic. That was quite good, subtle enough to not get really annoying and could be changed offline if you were after something in particular. Fingers crossed on end product. Yea, I wouldn't pre-judge a vague idea when we really don't know how that idea would be executed. No amount of "I don't want X" will make an X not show up, given that we don't really know what the X actually is. I have my doubts whether DA team or BW in general would go into great experimentation there or bet their game's fate into this one system (it can't really be a significant narrative beat if they want to continue the story past DA4, for example) - and who knows, maybe it will be something fun? Dragon Age has a lot of open space to experiment there with the concept of the Fade, where nothing is ever certain or set in stone, so they can have these short, encapsulated narratives or events that may be driven by collective community choices, player score or whatevs - and that's regardless of the fact that if players will like a certain thing the devs may just pivot towards it (as they did many times in the past), and because the code allows it they'd be able to make adjustments or create new content faster than in any previous traditional title of theirs and thus some narrative can be shaped collectively by players *that* way. Like, 'oh, community wants THIS romance continuation or that scene? Okay^^...' I wonder how many people would have objections to that. Oh definitely, consider my enthusiasm curbed! I brought up that specific example as, for me at least, it really worked and was a good utilisation of an online community. In Dragon Age terms, I agree that they can't really go 'all in' on something like that or go for a system that intrudes too heavily on the single player immersion. I like your idea on the fade and it reminds me of Solas mentioning something about there not being truths so much as coloured interpretations. That fits really nicely with a world/character tendency model. New dialogue choices and store items maybe for character tendency - individual players world. New sub areas and NPCs showing up depending on the world tendency - entire community. I guess it would work even better if there was no veil but now i'm getting far too carried away! All said and done, I hope live service elements will be in this direction but I find it hard to reconcile with active methods of monetization.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 9, 2019 20:19:50 GMT
Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. It read a bit that way to me too, which is a big reason why I'm glad to hear they scrapped Joplin. I doubt they'll change plans on the 'new protagonist per game' that's been the norm for the three games thus far. Morrison will most likely go down the same path as Joplin in that regard. And quite frankly, if they stick to the general idea of playing as spies or some other form, I think it'll be a welcome change. We've played the boss figure, so now it seems appropriate to play as an agent for some force or another. "Daily Briefing" missions from our spy master seems like a narrative-coherent way of implementing live service to me. I haven't read the article yet - still waking up - but the 'scrapped' version pieces that have been discussed range from "hell no" to "aww, that would have been pretty great" and some points in between. So I'm relaxed about the thing we "didn't lose because we never had". And as was mentioned above - it is worth "remembering Crestwood". DAI had huge plans for reactivity. It didn't get all of them out the door.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 9, 2019 20:22:14 GMT
Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. It read a bit that way to me too, which is a big reason why I'm glad to hear they scrapped Joplin. I mean we've had a different protagonist each DA title, I don't think they ever entertained the idea of continuing with the Inquisitor Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. It read a bit that way to me too, which is a big reason why I'm glad to hear they scrapped Joplin. I doubt they'll change plans on the 'new protagonist per game' that's been the norm for the three games thus far. Morrison will most likely go down the same path as Joplin in that regard. And quite frankly, if they stick to the general idea of playing as spies or some other form, I think it'll be a welcome change. We've played the boss figure, so now it seems appropriate to play as an agent for some force or another. I doubt they'll change plans on the 'new protagonist per game' that's been the norm for the three games thus far. Morrison will most likely go down the same path as Joplin in that regard. And quite frankly, if they stick to the general idea of playing as spies or some other form, I think it'll be a welcome change. We've played the boss figure, so now it seems appropriate to play as an agent for some force or another. What a stupid rule. Screw telling a good story, no we got to have a new person each time. I wouldn’t say it’s a rule (and I’m quite sure that with DA2 they intended to have Hawke as the Shepard of DA, for at least two-three games, but the idea ended with that), but I disagree that the story in DA4 will be necessarily bad just because the Inquisitor won’t be the MC, even if it’s about Solas. At least, not for everyone.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 9, 2019 20:22:41 GMT
Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. Really? I think Trespasser was pretty effective in disarming the Inquisitor for the rest of the franchise.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,572 Likes: 12,621
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 9, 2019 20:23:01 GMT
Worth noting that Morrison’s skeleton team has been working on it since late 2017 according to the article.
It doesn’t sound like any of the people Jason talked to are actually privy to anything that has happened on that end since the reboot.
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Post by eaglepursuit on Apr 9, 2019 20:23:15 GMT
""Reading lots of feedback regarding Dragon Age, and I think you’ll be relieved to see what the team is working on. Story & character focused. Too early to talk details, but when we talk about ‘live’ it just means designing a game for continued storytelling after the main story.”"" If 'live service' means they extend the main storyline with a series of DLC, I can live with that, as long as they don't short the initial offering and it is as compelling as Dragon Age games have been in the past. The worrisome bit to me is the idea of using multiplayer to tie these add-ons together. I am allergic to multiplayer, both organized and PUG. But why feel the need to rename something that has existed for a very long time already, thus the need to re-explain it, if it stays the same? Bioware games have had their stories supplemented by DLCs since the first Mass Effect, heck, you could say since the days of Baldur's Gate and NWN. Those DLCs have changed and have been re-contextualized to be smaller than Expansion Packs and to also include item packs but the basic gist is that they were exactly what Hudson described, continued storytelling after the main story.
The DA franchise itself has had its story supplemented by DLC since the first installment: DAO: 3 story DLCs during the main story, 3 after, 1 prequel, 1 as an alternate universe to the main story DA2: 3 story DLCs during the main story, 1 planned to be after but was scrapped to make DAI
DAI: 2 story DLC that could be either during the main story or after, 1 that is definitely after the main story.
Renaming "post launch story support" to "live service" is a clumsy image move if the practice essentially stays the same and only the name changes.
If the practice also changes, that brings about questions about what is it changing to and you can't be confused why people keep asking about it when you don't clearly define what it is you're changing (and in some cases, why).
Well, no. I mean extending the end of the storyline, not adding side quests, like Tresspasser after Trespasser.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 9, 2019 20:26:14 GMT
What a stupid rule. Screw telling a good story, no we got to have a new person each time. I wouldn’t say it’s a rule (and I’m quite sure that with DA2 they intended to have Hawke as the Shepard of DA, for at least two-three games, but the idea ended with that), but I disagree that the story in DA4 will be necessarily bad just because the Inquisitor won’t be the MC, even if it’s about Solas. At least, not for everyone. It would lose all potential that was set up and thus be garbage compared to what could have been. So yes, it would be bad. Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. Really? I think Trespasser was pretty effective in disarming the Inquisitor for the rest of the franchise.
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blastoandbubin
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by blastoandbubin on Apr 9, 2019 20:31:17 GMT
On the one hand - spies! narrower focus! more impactful choices and branching narrative!
On the other hand - rebooted! a distressingly vague concept of live service! they really think I want other people influencing my game! who knows how much of the initial very cool concept will even carry over!
I don't even know what to think anymore, honestly. It's years out til release anyway, so at this point I'm just putting any excitement or worry on the backburner. It'll be what it'll be, and in the meantime I have other rpgs to play and look forward to. Though that in itself is probably indicative of my cooling on the studio, as I was hanging onto every bit of news and speculation regarding Dragon Age Inquisition and even DA2, and now I already feel tired of a game that doesn't even exist yet. Or maybe I'm just old now, lol. Probably a little bit of both.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 20:33:00 GMT
Then as I've said before, they could not have failed any harder and they are every bit the overrated hacks the haters say they are. Also makes that DLC the worst they've ever made since it completely ruins the protagonist and game. Really? I think Trespasser was pretty effective in disarming the Inquisitor for the rest of the franchise. The Lead Writer has already dismissed the idea of getting rid of a character by crippling them.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 9, 2019 20:33:17 GMT
I wouldn’t say it’s a rule (and I’m quite sure that with DA2 they intended to have Hawke as the Shepard of DA, for at least two-three games, but the idea ended with that), but I disagree that the story in DA4 will be necessarily bad just because the Inquisitor won’t be the MC, even if it’s about Solas. At least, not for everyone. It would lose all potential that was set up and thus be garbage compared to what could have been. So yes, it would be bad. Really? I think Trespasser was pretty effective in disarming the Inquisitor for the rest of the franchise. That’s your opinion, though I read people having opposite ideas on it (for example, the one in your quote). I do find the story is going to lose something if the Inquisitor isn’t the MC given the connection with Solas. But I don’t think this would mean the story is going to be garbage, because I have the same opinion for Inquisition, the story would’ve worked much better with Hawke as an MC. It doesn’t mean I find the story being garbage, and while there were other flaws, it weren’t due the change of protagonist. DA4 can have a better story then DAI even with a new character, for me. I’d obviously also fine with Inquisitor back as MC. The protagonist is in all honesty the least of my worries for DA4, but I can understand why it’s such a big deal for you.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 20:33:40 GMT
Worth noting that Morrison’s skeleton team has been working on it since late 2017 according to the article. It doesn’t sound like any of the people Jason talked to are actually privy to the anything that has happened on that end since the reboot. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... And yeah, I have to wonder how much of it is fresh information from insiders, and how much of it is just what he's dug out from all the communication with various employees over the years. A lot of the article is a rehash of his previous points after all.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Apr 9, 2019 20:34:56 GMT
Dear BioWare/EA, Please stop fucking up my favourite franchises. Kthxbye.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 20:37:53 GMT
Really? I think Trespasser was pretty effective in disarming the Inquisitor for the rest of the franchise. The Lead Writer has already dismissed the idea of getting rid of a character by crippling them. I mean they can say that they won't get rid of a character in such a way all they want, but that's exactly what they did to the Inquisitor
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Apr 9, 2019 20:40:09 GMT
I doubt they'll change plans on the 'new protagonist per game' that's been the norm for the three games thus far. Morrison will most likely go down the same path as Joplin in that regard. And quite frankly, if they stick to the general idea of playing as spies or some other form, I think it'll be a welcome change. We've played the boss figure, so now it seems appropriate to play as an agent for some force or another. What a stupid rule. Screw telling a good story, no we got to have a new person each time. A good story has a beginning, a middle, and an end, it doesn't NEED to recycle protagonists.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 9, 2019 20:41:23 GMT
What a stupid rule. Screw telling a good story, no we got to have a new person each time. A good story has a beginning, a middle, and an end, it doesn't NEED to recycle protagonists. And the current story are only at the middle and lacking an end, so thank you for proving my point.
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Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 20:41:50 GMT
The Lead Writer has already dismissed the idea of getting rid of a character by crippling them. I mean they can say that they won't get rid of a character in such a way all they want, but that's exactly what they did to the Inquisitor Only they didn't. They've made Inky a central character in the endeavor to stop Solas, which is what the whole Trespasser ending was about. Even recently John Epler has stated that Inquisitor HAD TO survive (and all the recent comic books operate under the assumption that Inquisition is there and there was no change in leadership). So whatever role Inkys are going to play in the future, they do appear they are going to be there and likely involved into something very important.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 20:43:16 GMT
I mean they can say that they won't get rid of a character in such a way all they want, but that's exactly what they did to the Inquisitor Only they didn't. They've made Inky a central character in the endeavor to stop Solas, which is what the whole Trespasser ending was about. Even recently John Epler has stated that Inquisitor HAD TO survive (and all the recent comic books operate under the assumption that Inquisition is there and there was no change in leadership). So whatever role Inkys are going to play in the future, they do appear they are going to be there and likely involved into something very important. after they exit stage left sans a limb
Seems to me they knew there wasn't a reason to not have the Inquisitor as the lead again and decided to get around that by lopping off an arm. Its an easy way to keep the Inquisitor around but also let us get a new protagonist.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 20:44:28 GMT
A good story has a beginning, a middle, and an end, it doesn't NEED to recycle protagonists. And the current story are only at the middle and lacking an end, so thank you for proving my point. Depends on what you think the Inquisitor's story IS though. The central conflict of DA:I isn't stopping Solas, its bringing order to the chaos of Southern Thedas, and that goal is accomplished.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 9, 2019 20:44:41 GMT
I mean they can say that they won't get rid of a character in such a way all they want, but that's exactly what they did to the Inquisitor Only they didn't. They've made Inky a central character in the endeavor to stop Solas, which is what the whole Trespasser ending was about. Even recently John Epler has stated that Inquisitor HAD TO survive (and all the recent comic books operate under the assumption that Inquisition is there and there was no change in leadership). So whatever role Inkys are going to play in the future, they do appear they are going to be there and likely involved into something very important. And if they're going to be that central, they need to be playable. PCs-turned-NPCs do not work.
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