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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 9, 2019 20:46:30 GMT
And the current story are only at the middle and lacking an end, so thank you for proving my point. Depends on what you think the Inquisitor's story IS though. The central conflict of DA:I isn't stopping Solas, its bringing order to the chaos of Southern Thedas, and that goal is accomplished. Our pledge was to close the Breach and stop those responsible. Solas is responsible for everything about the Breach. Further, at the end of Trespasser the Inquisition is now on a quest to deal with Solas no matter what was chosen. So under no circumstance is their story finished.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 9, 2019 20:47:08 GMT
Ok - the image of Dragon Age as a pirate ship is something I can live with, even if it received the moniker as a backhanded compliment
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Post by Julilla on Apr 9, 2019 20:47:51 GMT
The only thing about any of this that has upset me is that it means I have to wait longer for the next DA. They need to leave the DA team alone and stop pulling them off their project. Also reading all the pessimism is amusing. I'm sure the very same people telling everyone how awful it's going to be are going to still be here in 3 years, saying the same things over and over. I've watched posters screech about how awful BW is doing, how they are tanking and can never pull out of this nightmare and boy, don't they deserve it? crap since DA2.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 9, 2019 20:48:08 GMT
I agree that it is vital that Inky be involved with the resolution to the Solas plot. If not, he likely just becomes Corypheus 2.0, which would suck beyond imagining.
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Post by natetrace on Apr 9, 2019 20:48:48 GMT
I know a lot of people are yelling doom and gloom from the far reaches of Reddit and Twitter and a few here, but what do we know that we didn't know before? Nothing, really.
Also I'm ok with a new protagonist. I wonder if we can create them from multiple races or just humans. There is no way the Inquisitor is returning, as an npc yeah, but as the main? No. Too much time has passed between titles.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 20:50:45 GMT
Depends on what you think the Inquisitor's story IS though. The central conflict of DA:I isn't stopping Solas, its bringing order to the chaos of Southern Thedas, and that goal is accomplished. Our pledge was to close the Breach and stop those responsible. Solas is responsible for everything about the Breach. Further, at the end of Trespasser the Inquisition is now on a quest to deal with Solas no matter what was chosen. So under no circumstance is their story finished. Well I think that gets to the difference between the Inquisitor as an individual and the Inquisition as an institution.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 9, 2019 20:51:59 GMT
Our pledge was to close the Breach and stop those responsible. Solas is responsible for everything about the Breach. Further, at the end of Trespasser the Inquisition is now on a quest to deal with Solas no matter what was chosen. So under no circumstance is their story finished. Well I think that gets to the difference between the Inquisitor as an individual and the Inquisition as an institution. No, it doesn't. The Inquisitors personally involve themselves. Depending on what you chose, you can even be very open about it by saying "I'm off to save the world again." Note I. Not we. I.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 20:54:47 GMT
Well I think that gets to the difference between the Inquisitor as an individual and the Inquisition as an institution. No, it doesn't. The Inquisitors personally involve themselves. Depending on what you chose, you can even be very open about it by saying "I'm off to save the world again." Note I. Not we. I. And presumably they will continue to be involved in the effort to defeat Solas, but not from the front lines. The Inquisitor is pretty clear about their days at the front being done. I honestly don't see why a story where we play an agent of the Inquisition fighting against Solas is inconsistent with the Inquisitor continuing to fight Solas. Sure we aren't controlling them anymore and that's a bit of a bummer. I like the Inquisitor best of the DA protags, but their role as the primary driver of action is done.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 9, 2019 20:56:51 GMT
Well I think that gets to the difference between the Inquisitor as an individual and the Inquisition as an institution. No, it doesn't. The Inquisitors personally involve themselves. Depending on what you chose, you can even be very open about it by saying "I'm off to save the world again." Note I. Not we. I. I love that line so much, I made it part of my signature.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 9, 2019 20:57:09 GMT
I agree that it is vital that Inky be involved with the resolution to the Solas plot. If not, he likely just becomes Corypheus 2.0, which would suck beyond imagining. As long as I can kill the useless inky.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 20:58:34 GMT
Only they didn't. They've made Inky a central character in the endeavor to stop Solas, which is what the whole Trespasser ending was about. Even recently John Epler has stated that Inquisitor HAD TO survive (and all the recent comic books operate under the assumption that Inquisition is there and there was no change in leadership). So whatever role Inkys are going to play in the future, they do appear they are going to be there and likely involved into something very important. after they exit stage left sans a limb
Seems to me they knew there wasn't a reason to not have the Inquisitor as the lead again and decided to get around that by lopping off an arm. Its an easy way to keep the Inquisitor around but also let us get a new protagonist.
Yep, it's not like multiple DA devs weren't enthusing about Furiosa from Mad Max or conceptualized Iron Bull having no hand until the plans were cut due to technical difficulties... or, you know, the lead writer stating on his twitter that having no hand is no reason to get rid of someone from the narrative. There are multiple reasons why they'd want to remove the limb, with none of them related to crippling them enough to remove them from the plot/battlefield, especially after going through so much problem of establishing Inquisitor as someone who is essential to the future Solas-related plot.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 9, 2019 21:00:10 GMT
I mean they can say that they won't get rid of a character in such a way all they want, but that's exactly what they did to the Inquisitor Only they didn't. They've made Inky a central character in the endeavor to stop Solas, which is what the whole Trespasser ending was about. Even recently John Epler has stated that Inquisitor HAD TO survive (and all the recent comic books operate under the assumption that Inquisition is there and there was no change in leadership). So whatever role Inkys are going to play in the future, they do appear they are going to be there and likely involved into something very important. And before that Hawke was a central character in stopping Corypheus. That's what Legacy was all about. And if my Inquisitor gets dragged back into thing like my Hawke was, I'm gonna be p*ssed.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 21:00:25 GMT
after they exit stage left sans a limb
Seems to me they knew there wasn't a reason to not have the Inquisitor as the lead again and decided to get around that by lopping off an arm. Its an easy way to keep the Inquisitor around but also let us get a new protagonist.
Yep, it's not like multiple DA devs weren't enthusing about Furiosa from Mad Max or conceptualized Iron Bull having no hand until the plans were cut due to technical difficulties... or, you know, the lead writer stating on his twitter that having no hand is no reason to get rid of someone from the narrative. There are multiple reasons why they'd want to remove the limb, with none of them related to crippling them enough to remove them from the plot/battlefield, especially after going through so much problem of establishing Inquisitor as someone who is essential to the future Solas-related plot. Actions speak louder than words.
Its one thing to talk about other protagonists or mention original character concepts that didn't make the cut, but what are we left with at the end of the day? An Inquisitor who tells us "my adventuring days are behind me" after getting their arm disintegrated.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 9, 2019 21:03:30 GMT
I find the debate over who should be the protagonist of DA4 to be tiresome, because we all know that it's going to be somebody new. The very fact that Joplin was going to be a stealthy spy-based narrative is basically confirmation of that fact. The Inquisitor is one of the most recognizable individuals in Thedas; even in Tevinter, they would stand out like a sore thumb. And Solas also knows the Inquisitor (potentially intimately), so their value as a spy is even more undermined.
We can holler at each other until we pass out from lack of oxygen and it will not change one damn thing. If you find that unacceptable, then jump ship now, as you are doomed to disappointment. (The rest of us probably are as well, though for entirely different reasons.)
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2019 21:08:09 GMT
Well, the goals are pretty clear. The issue, in their terms, is "engagement"; how long do players keep playing? Most SP RPG players are strictly one and-done. Play a character through the campaign, and then it's on to the next game. (If they finish even once, that is.) Drop a DLC in a few months, and some of those players will check back in. But most won't. The trick is to keep the bulk of players playing long enough to actually sell DLC. MP-focused games stick around longer because players are engaged with each other, rather than the campaign. Heavily and easily moddable games stick around too, but that strategy isn't available with Frostbite. I don't know what other strategies are available. I hear AC does something now, but I don't know what. One problem with discussing this here is that the most of the people on this board are pretty much out of the target demographic for the feature. We're not the ones who need to be lured into sticking around. How can people possibly only play through these games once?? Replaying with a different character and picking different dialogues/romances etc is half the fun.
I don't get it either. But it's true.
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Post by bladefist on Apr 9, 2019 21:08:53 GMT
I doubt they'll change plans on the 'new protagonist per game' that's been the norm for the three games thus far. Morrison will most likely go down the same path as Joplin in that regard. And quite frankly, if they stick to the general idea of playing as spies or some other form, I think it'll be a welcome change. We've played the boss figure, so now it seems appropriate to play as an agent for some force or another. What a stupid rule. Screw telling a good story, no we got to have a new person each time. That was a HORRIBLE decision. Originally Hawke was supposed to carry the series through but the character wasn't well received so Hawke was abandoned.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 21:09:11 GMT
Yep, it's not like multiple DA devs weren't enthusing about Furiosa from Mad Max or conceptualized Iron Bull having no hand until the plans were cut due to technical difficulties... or, you know, the lead writer stating on his twitter that having no hand is no reason to get rid of someone from the narrative. There are multiple reasons why they'd want to remove the limb, with none of them related to crippling them enough to remove them from the plot/battlefield, especially after going through so much problem of establishing Inquisitor as someone who is essential to the future Solas-related plot. Actions speak louder than words.
Its one thing to talk about other protagonists or mention original character concepts that didn't make the cut, but what are we left with at the end of the day? An Inquisitor who tells us "my adventuring days are behind me" after getting their arm disintegrated.
Yep, Inquisitor's actions in the very last scene we ever saw from DA for now (or the fact that Inquisition moves to Tevinter in new comic, as it was declared in post-epilogue scene) definitely speaks louder than the fact that they don't have a limb anymore. Also - why do you remember "my adventuring day may be (sic!) over", but don't remember " Now, if you excuse me, I have a world to save. Again". Literally the whole speech was a veiled declaration of future action that you don't really have to read in too hard to get. Never mind the whole "we will stop Solas" declaration in post-Trespasser scene or Dragon Age Keep's overtly saying that it's Inquisitor that be at the helm of all the stopping.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 21:11:22 GMT
Actions speak louder than words.
Its one thing to talk about other protagonists or mention original character concepts that didn't make the cut, but what are we left with at the end of the day? An Inquisitor who tells us "my adventuring days are behind me" after getting their arm disintegrated.
Yep, Inquisitor's actions in the very last scene we ever saw from DA for now (or the fact that Inquisition moves to Tevinter in new comic, as it was declared in post-epilogue scene) definitely speaks louder than the fact that they don't have a limb anymore. Also - why do you remember "my adventuring day may be (sic!) over", but don't remember " Now, if you excuse me, I have a world to save. Again". Literally the whole speech was a veiled declaration of future action that you don't really have to read in too hard to get. Never mind the whole "we will stop Solas" declaration in post-Trespasser scene or Dragon Age Keep's overtly saying that it's Inquisitor that be at the helm of all the stopping. A world to save true, but not by actually fighting or participating on the front anymore. That's made pretty clear. I think those two lines are accomplishing different things, one telling us that the Inquisitor is done as a PC, and the other telling us that they will still be around because it'd be weird if they weren't. BioWare wanted to have their cake and eat it too, and while its an inelegant solution, it does wrap up the Inquisitor's active participation neatly.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2019 21:12:33 GMT
What a stupid rule. Screw telling a good story, no we got to have a new person each time. That was a HORRIBLE decision. Originally Hawke was supposed to carry the series through but the character wasn't well received so Hawke was abandoned. good riddance tbh
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 21:12:36 GMT
I find the debate over who should be the protagonist of DA4 to be tiresome, because we all know that it's going to be somebody new. The very fact that Joplin was going to be a stealthy spy-based narrative is basically confirmation of that fact. The Inquisitor is one of the most recognizable individuals in Thedas; even in Tevinter, they would stand out like a sore thumb. And Solas also knows the Inquisitor (potentially intimately), so their value as a spy is even more undermined.
We can holler at each other until we pass out from lack of oxygen and it will not change one damn thing. If you find that unacceptable, then jump ship now, as you are doomed to disappointment. (The rest of us probably are as well, though for entirely different reasons.) That assumes that people who argue about Inquisitor's return argue that they *have to* be a protagonist or main protagonist. Those spies have to work for someone and we have spent inordinate amount of time in DAI learning to delegate a large organization with a large spy network. Just saying.
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Post by river82 on Apr 9, 2019 21:18:41 GMT
Things made clear in the article: - Live service does not mean DLC (we can finally nail that down) - The game is still years away (I wish people would drop the "maybe in a year" stuff)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 9, 2019 21:19:33 GMT
I find the debate over who should be the protagonist of DA4 to be tiresome, because we all know that it's going to be somebody new. The very fact that Joplin was going to be a stealthy spy-based narrative is basically confirmation of that fact. The Inquisitor is one of the most recognizable individuals in Thedas; even in Tevinter, they would stand out like a sore thumb. And Solas also knows the Inquisitor (potentially intimately), so their value as a spy is even more undermined.
We can holler at each other until we pass out from lack of oxygen and it will not change one damn thing. If you find that unacceptable, then jump ship now, as you are doomed to disappointment. (The rest of us probably are as well, though for entirely different reasons.) Oh I plan to. The moment it is announced that they aren’t the protagonist, BioWare loses me as a customer since between that and dropping Andromeda I can’t trust them to tell complete stories anymore.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 21:20:08 GMT
Yep, Inquisitor's actions in the very last scene we ever saw from DA for now (or the fact that Inquisition moves to Tevinter in new comic, as it was declared in post-epilogue scene) definitely speaks louder than the fact that they don't have a limb anymore. Also - why do you remember "my adventuring day may be (sic!) over", but don't remember " Now, if you excuse me, I have a world to save. Again". Literally the whole speech was a veiled declaration of future action that you don't really have to read in too hard to get. Never mind the whole "we will stop Solas" declaration in post-Trespasser scene or Dragon Age Keep's overtly saying that it's Inquisitor that be at the helm of all the stopping. A world to save true, but not by actually fighting or participating on the front anymore. That's made pretty clear. I think those two lines are accomplishing different things, one telling us that the Inquisitor is done as a PC, and the other telling us that they will still be around because it'd be weird if they weren't. BioWare wanted to have their cake and eat it too, and while its an inelegant solution, it does wrap up the Inquisitor's active participation neatly. Well, they can't be 'around' and not have an active role of some sort in active plot of stopping Solas/saving the world, regardless what people think of their participation on the battlefield - something that is hardly ruled out, given that we have epilogue scenes where Inquisitor participates in activities requiring fighting and/or acrobatics (one of Sera's epilogue cards) AND we know that Iron Bull was always going to be a warrior and at some point that warrior was supposed to lack about the same amount of left hand as Inquisitor doesn't have. You know - the Inquisitor: a person that has easy access to money and some of the most brilliant minds in Thedas. If there's one person that is able to find themselves a nifty replacement for a missing appendage, it's one of the richest and most influential people in Southern Thedas.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 9, 2019 21:20:48 GMT
That assumes that people who argue about Inquisitor's return argue that they *have to* be a protagonist or main protagonist. Those spies have to work for someone and we have spent inordinate amount of time in DAI learning to delegate a large organization with a large spy network. Just saying. Your read on the debate is different than mine. What I hear is (a minority of) people exclaiming that the Inquisitor MUST be the main character of DA4 or else they're not interested in playing it, and then the other side who want a new protagonist arguing with them. Oh I plan to. The moment it is announced that they aren’t the protagonist, BioWare loses me as a customer since between that and dropping Andromeda I can’t trust them to tell complete stories anymore. Case in point.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 9, 2019 21:23:57 GMT
You know - the Inquisitor: a person that has easy access to money and some of the most brilliant minds in Thedas. If there's one person that is able to find themselves a nifty replacement for a missing appendage, it's one of the richest and most influential people in Southern Thedas. One minor reason I want to see the Inky return in some fashion...so I can see Dagna geeking out over the awesome new hand she built.
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