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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 18:35:21 GMT
So where's my non-Shepard sequel? Where's my non Shepard ME3? ME3 was a hallucination the Shepards who die in ME2 experience as their life fades away. There, you have your sequel. That sounds like your sequel.
My Shepard, as she/he is falling to their death, would be, this again. I better stay dead this time.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 4, 2019 19:14:18 GMT
I don't see how Shepard dying in ME2 is any more or less canon than anything else which can happen in the games. In those timelines ME3 doesn't happen -- not even Refuse, since Liara never gets off Mars. So what? It is for the "benefit" of that persons endless circle jerking.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 4, 2019 19:17:58 GMT
How didn't they repect it? Your character is dead, so naturally you can't import him to the sequel. So where's my non-Shepard sequel? Where's my non Shepard ME3? In the trashcan. It is calling for you.
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Post by burningcherry on Sept 4, 2019 20:11:36 GMT
SirSourpuss You need to understand that the canon also has conditional statements, like "if Shepard lived then ME3 happened". If you're trying to justify ignoring ME3 on the basis that Shepard can die before, it won't work.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 4, 2019 20:24:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 20:31:43 GMT
SirSourpuss You need to understand that the canon also has conditional statements, like "if Shepard lived then ME3 happened". If you're trying to justify ignoring ME3 on the basis that Shepard can die before, it won't work. The thing is, ME3 happened... that's canon. The canon always consists of what is possible at the current point in the timeline. Once the timeline moves beyond something and if those subsequent events make an earlier even impossible to have happened, then it's the earlier event that gets punted from the canon. You don't have "conditional canon" going forward. The future is just unknown.
ME:A is the event now furthest along the timeline. Everything in it is canon. It's very existence says that, despite anything we were told in ME1 to ME3, it was possible for the Initiative to have made the ODSY drive and left the galaxy for Andromeda in 2185. IF that makes something in the OT impossible to have happened, then it is the event in the OT that ceases to be canon. In ME:A Shepard is alive and with Liara on the Normandy SR-2 after the Reaper War begins. ME2's Shepard dies ending is, therefore, re-confirmed as having been impossible to have occurred. ME2's Shepard dies ending is, therefore, not part of the canon of the MEU.
While making their choices, the players are setting a personal canon for that game, not a general canon for that franchise. For example, if I choose to cure the genophage, then once that is done in that game, it is impossible to have it not be cured. Therefore, in my game, curing the genophage becomes canon. However, my choice doesn't affect whatever choice you make in your game. Your game's canon may be different than mine... and Bioware's current canon for the MEU still includes both as possibilities. Both are canon in that respect.
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Post by burningcherry on Sept 4, 2019 21:31:01 GMT
SirSourpuss You need to understand that the canon also has conditional statements, like "if Shepard lived then ME3 happened". If you're trying to justify ignoring ME3 on the basis that Shepard can die before, it won't work. The thing is, ME3 happened... that's canon. The canon always consists of what is possible at the current point in the timeline. Once the timeline moves beyond something and if those subsequent events make an earlier even impossible to have happened, then it's the earlier event that gets punted from the canon. You don't have "conditional canon" going forward. The future is just unknown. Depends on the definition of "canon". I can think of two separate ones by which this can be true or false. Nice remark, you got your point. But keep in mind that you can't import a "Shepard with no crew" into ME3 if (s)he died in ME2 and the inter-games works (in timeline chronology) take Shepard's death as a possibility, resorting to awful wording for this purpose. By some definitions of canon, only Andromeda canonized Shepard's survival in ME2.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 22:08:10 GMT
The thing is, ME3 happened... that's canon. The canon always consists of what is possible at the current point in the timeline. Once the timeline moves beyond something and if those subsequent events make an earlier even impossible to have happened, then it's the earlier event that gets punted from the canon. You don't have "conditional canon" going forward. The future is just unknown. Depends on the definition of "canon". I can think of two separate ones by which this can be true or false. Nice remark, you got your point. But keep in mind that you can't import a "Shepard with no crew" into ME3 if (s)he died in ME2 and the inter-games works (in timeline chronology) take Shepard's death as a possibility, resorting to awful wording for this purpose. By some definitions of canon, only Andromeda canonized Shepard's survival in ME2. I disagree. ME3 made no beans about it being Shepard who lived and returned the SR2 to earth. With DLC, it established that a clone was made but also reaffirmed that it was the "real" Shepard who went through the Omega 4 relay and either saved or destroyed the collector base. The ME2 requirement for Shepard to live was 2 crew surviving the SM; and regardless of which 2 or more crew you have survive,it is those two crew squad will make their appearance in ME3 (if you import the file). Therefore, iIt is impossible for Shepard to have died in ME2 per the canon events of ME3. ME:A reconfirmed the canon established in ME3 and that Liara was on board the SR2 with Shepard, while avoiding refuting any of the canon (all possibilities) that ME3 opened regarding the ending of the Reaper War.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 22:27:38 GMT
It has to be 2 squadmates, not 2 crew members, for Shepard to survive ME2.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 4, 2019 22:46:54 GMT
If there is a ME2 Ending Shepard dying ending become a viable ending, whom within either Alliance or Cerberus would take up the mantle as a PC after Shepard?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 4, 2019 22:52:03 GMT
If there is a ME2 Ending Shepard dying ending become a viable ending, whom within either Alliance or Cerberus would take up the mantle as a PC after Shepard? Alliance obviously considering what happens with Cerberus. At most Cerberus would get a Derkspawn Chronicles DLC thing.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 4, 2019 22:59:29 GMT
If there is a ME2 Ending Shepard dying ending become a viable ending, whom within either Alliance or Cerberus would take up the mantle as a PC after Shepard? Tricky... The Alliance is too far up the Council's backside to do anything about anything. While... Cerberus is too busy taking a leaf out of HYDRA'S and COBRA'S playbook. So, maybe an ex Alliance or Cerberus soldier?
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 4, 2019 23:00:19 GMT
Anderson, I guess? Kaidan might work as well, provided he survived Virmire. Ashley isn't the diplomatic type and would probably refuse. Any Cerberus agent would wind up with the Reapers winning, except if they go rogue early enough as not to be indoctrinated, but as Cerberus rank-and-file are pretty much Husks deluxe from the beginning...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 23:03:04 GMT
It has to be 2 squadmates, not 2 crew members, for Shepard to survive ME2. Corrected my slip.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 4, 2019 23:08:55 GMT
If there is a ME2 Ending Shepard dying ending become a viable ending, whom within either Alliance or Cerberus would take up the mantle as a PC after Shepard? Alliance obviously considering what happens with Cerberus. At most Cerberus would get a Derkspawn Chronicles DLC thing. I can see where you are coming from. Well Hear me out of this, Maybe the Death of Shepard effect T.I.M. and causes a different outcome for him and Cerberus in general. Keep in mind that for storyline and gameplay mechanic purpose, I want to play up the Reaper Sleeper Agent angle and an Cult that is psychoticly devoted to the Reapers out of their own free will and another faction that is a cyberpunk horror theme to them. And without overexposing them, Each will take the segment to themselves that was a Cerberus oriented mission. For example, having a Turian battlion(Reaper Sleeper Agent that is leading them) stopping Mordin and the STG from developing a cure for the Krogan. Also seeing infighting between Turian squads due to Reaper influencing. And see how deep the Reaper Sleeper Agents had infiltrated all factions. Indoctrination done well can sow chaos on all fronts. I can understand of using a Fifth column as a story element and doing it well can be a superb idea.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 23:09:22 GMT
If there is a ME2 Ending Shepard dying ending become a viable ending, whom within either Alliance or Cerberus would take up the mantle as a PC after Shepard? Rupert Gardner. Beware, he carries a bada** spatula.
Jacob Taylor. He has his 'gravity is one mean mother' power.
Kai Leng. He has the best looking hairstyle in the trilogy.
Ashley Williams. She puts on her pink armor, and the enemy falls over dying of laughter.
space hamster. He use to be assigned to the 82nd Airborne Furball unit
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 23:13:53 GMT
If there is a ME2 Ending Shepard dying ending become a viable ending, whom within either Alliance or Cerberus would take up the mantle as a PC after Shepard? James would be my best guess. He'd have no Shepard to guard and Anderson could instead use the loss of Shepard to pull him out of the bars on Omega and back into the fight.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 4, 2019 23:14:12 GMT
If there is a ME2 Ending Shepard dying ending become a viable ending, whom within either Alliance or Cerberus would take up the mantle as a PC after Shepard? Rupert Gardner. Beware, he carries a bada** spatula.
Jacob Taylor. He has his 'gravity is one mean mother' power.
Kai Leng. He has the best looking hairstyle in the trilogy.
Ashley Williams. She puts on her pink armor, and the enemy falls over dying of laughter.
space hamster. He use to be assigned to the 82nd Airborne Furball unit
Well For pure humor, Kai Leng and my Cerberus Phantom will have a pissing contest whom is a better Phantom. And Yes Cerberus Phantom can be roleplay to accept Space Hamster as a part of his crew and siting any reason(ranging from the saner reasons to weird to batshit crazy reasons) and yes there will be a reference to Moo and his minuture Giant Space Hamster from BG series. Well Jacob and Rupert are always good choices.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 4, 2019 23:16:54 GMT
If there is a ME2 Ending Shepard dying ending become a viable ending, whom within either Alliance or Cerberus would take up the mantle as a PC after Shepard? Rupert Gardner. Beware, he carries a bada** spatula.
Jacob Taylor. He has his 'gravity is one mean mother' power.
Kai Leng. He has the best looking hairstyle in the trilogy.
Ashley Williams. She puts on her pink armor, and the enemy falls over dying of laughter.
space hamster. He use to be assigned to the 82nd Airborne Furball unit
And don't forget Creed, those robot squids will crap their pants if he showed up. 😀
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 5, 2019 2:14:56 GMT
Well, I'm glad to see this thread's finally going someplace useful.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 5, 2019 12:06:35 GMT
Bioware moving forward with a sequel that makes it impossible for Shepard to have made such a choice would invalidate them as endings... taking them out of the canon for the MEU. Selecting one ending would invalidate the others. Writing a new ending would invalidate them all. So ME3 invalidates the ME2 dead Shepard ending. So your choices don't matter and never did. Check. Am I supposed to take this seriously? It's hard to tell with you, sometimes. Yes, you absolutely are.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 5, 2019 12:08:21 GMT
In the trashcan. It is calling for you. Harsh. I'll go look for me ME3 sequel there as well then. ... Nope, it wasn't there. I only found Andromeda.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 5, 2019 12:09:29 GMT
You need to understand that the canon also has conditional statements, like "if Shepard lived then ME3 happened". If you're trying to justify ignoring ME3 on the basis that Shepard can die before, it won't work. OK, so we can also have a "if Shepard lived then ME4 happened" game.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 5, 2019 13:24:37 GMT
In the trashcan. It is calling for you. Harsh. I'll go look for me ME3 sequel there as well then. ... Nope, it wasn't there. I only found Andromeda. At least you'll be comfy then.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 5, 2019 13:32:19 GMT
At least you'll be comfy then. I get it, since I am in appropriate company then.
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