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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 12:14:16 GMT
You're just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. Not worth answering. Do what you like with the raw data. It is a common practice to throw out the highest and the lowest results before taking an average... But, put whatever spin you want to on it. Use whatever mathematical approach you want to use to deal with the outliers and deviation. I'll put whatever spin I want to on it. It doesn't change the raw data, which you have the same access to as I do. In each and every case, the positive and mixed reviews outnumber the negative ones. END DISCUSSION. You're the one being argumentative just to be argumentative because I don't agree with you. It also seems you can't admit you ****ed up with what you posted because you failed to click on the link I provided. It really bothers you that there are people that didn't like MEA. And yes, end of discussion. You've posted that a few times before. I'm sure you'll post that again in the future. Oh for crying out loud... It just bugs you to no end that I believe that something with mixed reviews is not an unmitigated disaster and that saying so is an exaggeration of the facts. There's nothing to discuss. I've posted the numbers here now for both the critics reviews and the user reviews.
So, What IS YOUR PROBLEM? You wanted me to JUST post the links to the negative reviews and not mention the positive or mixed ones. You came back with the post that linked to the main page but only mentioned the negative user reviews. You're the one wanting to slant things to be one-sided and bury the full story.
So fine, put your head in the sand and keep it there. In your eyes Andromeda was only reviewed negatively. In your eyes its the worst game ever made. Fine, that's your opinion. I'm good with that. Stay with it. I'll keep mine... ME:A received mixed reviews.
... and I entered this discussion because I never said that Anthem was "in the same league' as ME:A; something that your buddy now admits I didn't say. It also received mixed reviews from the critics, but received more negative reviews from them than Andromeda. As far as I can see, the latest addition is getting some improved feedback from those still playing the game. Maybe they can turn it around. I don't know. I don't play that game because my internet won't allow me to play online games. I HOPE they can.
What probably urks you more is that I'm not leaving the site in some sort of imagined huff over this. It also probably urks you more that I don't like your precious Destroy, Shepard lives ending to ME3. I'll take it as an option... but not as the singular canon. If they make it canon in that way, I won't buy another ME game... and, yes, that even means if they declare it canon while continuing the story in Andomreda.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 8, 2019 16:57:49 GMT
I can't imagine that last bit happening. There's no point in declaring a canon when that canon won't be relevant to the game in production.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 17:57:45 GMT
I can't imagine that last bit happening. There's no point in declaring a canon when that canon won't be relevant to the game in production. I'm willing to wait to see what Bioware actually does... that means I won't decide whether or not I buy the game until after the game releases and I know what they've done. I'm also not telling other people what they should or should not do in that repsect. It's my personal opinion only.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 8, 2019 22:18:40 GMT
Oh for crying out loud... It just bugs you to no end that I believe that something with mixed reviews is not an unmitigated disaster and that saying so is an exaggeration of the facts. There's nothing to discuss. I've posted the numbers here now for both the critics reviews and the user reviews. So, What IS YOUR PROBLEM? You wanted me to JUST post the links to the negative reviews and not mention the positive or mixed ones. You came back with the post that linked to the main page but only mentioned the negative user reviews. You're the one wanting to slant things to be one-sided and bury the full story. Problem? You posted that there was only two negative reviews. I asked if you could post a link to those reviews. For some reason you decided it would be better to say to click this, click that, and click the other thing. I went to the website and posted the links for the ps4, xone and pc. You were right about only 2 negatives, but I also posted the number of negatives from users. I didn't post the other numbers since I provided a link if people wanted to see those numbers and any other number. You replied with an assumption that you thought was a typo. That was wrong since it's clear you didn't click on any of the links I provided. The problem is you realized up ****ed up so you have to word it around to cover up your **** up. The other thing is I only disagreed with about the users reviews not counting. As I said, if I were to go to that site to read reviews of a game, I would take into consideration user reviews regardless if they're negative or not. The worse game ever? No. For me, the worse game ever was Duke Nukem Forever from 2011. And I entered the discussion asking for a link. I don't care about Anthem since it doesn't interest me. My buddy? Your assumption is wrong, again. And another assumption that is wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 0:57:54 GMT
Oh for crying out loud... It just bugs you to no end that I believe that something with mixed reviews is not an unmitigated disaster and that saying so is an exaggeration of the facts. There's nothing to discuss. I've posted the numbers here now for both the critics reviews and the user reviews. So, What IS YOUR PROBLEM? You wanted me to JUST post the links to the negative reviews and not mention the positive or mixed ones. You came back with the post that linked to the main page but only mentioned the negative user reviews. You're the one wanting to slant things to be one-sided and bury the full story. Problem? You posted that there was only two negative reviews. I asked if you could post a link to those reviews. For some reason you decided it would be better to say to click this, click that, and click the other thing. I went to the website and posted the links for the ps4, xone and pc. You were right about only 2 negatives, but I also posted the number of negatives from users. I didn't post the other numbers since I provided a link if people wanted to see those numbers and any other number. You replied with an assumption that you thought was a typo. That was wrong since it's clear you didn't click on any of the links I provided. The problem is you realized up ****ed up so you have to word it around to cover up your **** up. The other thing is I only disagreed with about the users reviews not counting. As I said, if I were to go to that site to read reviews of a game, I would take into consideration user reviews regardless if they're negative or not. The worse game ever? No. For me, the worse game ever was Duke Nukem Forever from 2011. And I entered the discussion asking for a link. I don't care about Anthem since it doesn't interest me. My buddy? Your assumption is wrong, again. And another assumption that is wrong. I honestly don't know what your problem is with being directed to a page rather than linked to it. You said you wanted links specifically to the 2 negative reviews - deliberately excluding any of the other reviews because they were positive and mixed so they don't support your negative view of Andromeda. Well, those 2 reviews are external to the Metacritic site and it is Metacritic that links to them... and we (sirpetrakus and I) were talking about Metacritic Critic Reviews from the get go as evidenced by the average sirpetrakus cited of 72 on PC (which does not include the User Reivews). So, for crying out loud... get over it, AH.
BTW, I just clicked again on the link you provided for the Xbox One and it in no way shows 60 negative user reviews. In fact, it doesn't even shown 460 negative user reviews. It now shows 490 negative user reviews (either the number has changed or I misread it) after clicking on the words that say there were a total of 1035 Ratings that make up the User Score of 5.0 for the Xbox One.. Also, note, they call them "ratings," not reviews. What you're viewing doesn't include all the "User Reviews" but a smaller selection of them (209 of which 66 were negative), and I have no idea on what basis they select them. So, admit you effed up.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 11:36:51 GMT
Interesting in your post you mention click on critic reviews. Why is that? Does user reviews not count? Anyways, here's the link with one negative from a critic while there's over 500 negative reviews from users www.metacritic.com/game/pc/mass-effect-andromeda
Here's the link for ps4. One negative for the critices while over 400 for the users.
Here's the link for Xone. No negative from critics, but over 60 from users We set the bar to professional reviewers, as we found the user scores to, sometimes, be too extreme and sometimes unreliable as a dissatisfied customer is more likely to leave a negative review than a satisfied one. It is a great measure for customer dissatisfaction, but not necessarily for product quality. Which is why we opted for professional reviews, as they are, supposedly, more impartial and objective. And through their average, we come close to what the game's actual value on the score table is. If you believe in the review system, that is. Which, to an extent, you have to. Personally, I would rate Andromeda lower, but I also have to respect those who would rate it higher, therefore a ~74% average across all platforms is, in my opinion, a fair score. It's not a good score for a AAA title, but a fair score for Andromeda. It is, however, up to Bioware to weigh in those user reviews and the obvious dissatisfaction that comes along with them as well as the valid and constructive criticisms of professional reviewers to improve upon their next game(s). So far they haven't.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 9, 2019 14:21:48 GMT
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2019 14:39:38 GMT
From what I've seen, user reviews tend to be too .... boolean, I guess. The writer gives a thumbs-up or thumbs-down and then throws everything he has into convincing everybody reading to move his thumb the same way. Not useful. Yeah, you can find good ones, but the search time is prohibitive.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 16:00:43 GMT
Read the frickin top of the page instead of scrolling down to the graph on that page... because the top of the page says that the User Score of 5.0 is based on 1,035 ratings. If you click on those words (i.e. 1,035 ratings), you get a graph that includes ALL of the user ratings. The one you're scrolling down to see is based on only 209 of those "reviews." (if you scroll down farther, you'll also see an option to view 209 user reviews). Metacritic has eliminated more than 800 of the ratings from that graph and I don't know what criteria they use to do that. I'm trying to get you to a point of seeing the results for ALL 1,035 user reviews. Stop being so ignorant about this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 16:10:46 GMT
From what I've seen, user reviews tend to be too .... boolean, I guess. The writer gives a thumbs-up or thumbs-down and then throws everything he has into convincing everybody reading to move his thumb the same way. Not useful. Yeah, you can find good ones, but the search time is prohibitive. I agree. In addition, I'm of the view that any 0/10 rating should be thrown away based on the view that any game that boots up is worth more than a 0/10 and that a person who gives a 0/10 is intentionally pulling themselves out of being included as an honest, total, and serious review of the game. The same holds for 10/10 ratings, particularly when they say they are rating the game so high because they are reacting to the inordinate number of 0/10 ratings (due to a metabombing of the game ratings as soon as the site opened). Both groups are voluntarily and intentionally taking their own ratings out of contention for being included in a legitimate averaging of the ratings to obtain an accurate user score. They are choosing to wage a form of war against each other on the site... So, that is basically why I would be inclined to throw out the highest and lowest scores before taking an average.
However, I do not think that is what Metacritic did when they selected the 209 out of the 1035 in total to represent on their front page for the game. I don't know what criteria they use for that total or even why they bother with it since the User Score is based on all 1,035 user ratings.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 16:25:46 GMT
In addition, I'm of the view that any 0/10 rating should be thrown away based on the view that any game that boots up is worth more than a 0/10 Sometimes, that a game boots up may be a bad thing. Depends on how bad the actual game is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 16:27:09 GMT
In addition, I'm of the view that any 0/10 rating should be thrown away based on the view that any game that boots up is worth more than a 0/10 Sometimes, that a game boots up may be a bad thing. Depends on how bad the actual game is. Still worth more than a 0/10, IMHO. I've never seen a professional critic give any game a 0/10. They very rarely give out 10/10s. People who metabomb a site with 0/10s know that they are not giving fair and complete reviews of the game. They make the choice to not contribute a fair review and a fair rating... forfeiting that chance in order to make a "politically charged" statement instead. Some of those 0/10 ratings included some positive comments; for example (quoted from a 0/10 review), "THE COMBAT: Solid, if not particularly memorable, for two reasons."). Shouldn't "solid" combat increase the overall rating at least a little bit? I think it should.
So, at the bottom line - I don't think user ratings should count in a discussion about critical reviews of a game.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 11, 2019 16:38:48 GMT
Interesting in your post you mention click on critic reviews. Why is that? Does user reviews not count? Anyways, here's the link with one negative from a critic while there's over 500 negative reviews from users www.metacritic.com/game/pc/mass-effect-andromeda
Here's the link for ps4. One negative for the critices while over 400 for the users.
Here's the link for Xone. No negative from critics, but over 60 from users
No, in a discussion about professional reviews, they don't count. There are numerous of those "negative" reviews that give the game a 0/10. This is evidence of a "metabombing"; not reasonable reviews of the game. If you want to go through and sift out those 0/10 reviews and recount, you're welcome to do the work.
I find it interesting that you also declined to mention that on Xbox One, there were a total of 460 negative user reviews, but also 439 positive ones and 106 mixed ones. (I'm assuming the rather low number of 60 was a typo.) For the PS4 the complete splits for the User Revews is 1,388 positive, 504 mixed, and 1,729 negative. On PC, the totals are 1,496 positive, 556 mixed, and 1,844 negative.
For fairness, you may also want to sift out any of the 10/10 user reviews, since there was a "reaction" to the metabombing as well.
Andromeda got flooded with fake review bombing reviews. Same thing happened with TLJ. It's ok not to like something but the review needs to be better than just slapping a zero and saying it sucks or other silly reviews.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 17:05:29 GMT
No, in a discussion about professional reviews, they don't count. There are numerous of those "negative" reviews that give the game a 0/10. This is evidence of a "metabombing"; not reasonable reviews of the game. If you want to go through and sift out those 0/10 reviews and recount, you're welcome to do the work.
I find it interesting that you also declined to mention that on Xbox One, there were a total of 460 negative user reviews, but also 439 positive ones and 106 mixed ones. (I'm assuming the rather low number of 60 was a typo.) For the PS4 the complete splits for the User Revews is 1,388 positive, 504 mixed, and 1,729 negative. On PC, the totals are 1,496 positive, 556 mixed, and 1,844 negative.
For fairness, you may also want to sift out any of the 10/10 user reviews, since there was a "reaction" to the metabombing as well.
Andromeda got flooded with fake review bombing reviews. Same thing happened with TLJ. It's ok not to like something but the review needs to be better than just slapping a zero and saying it sucks or other silly reviews. I agree. I don't know how a site like Metacritic can do that sort of sifting though and have the sifted results mean anything more than what the process of throwing out the highs and lows would do. Open internet polls of all kinds are just fraught with troll responses... people who have no interest at all even in the topic being polled... they just click for kicks. That's why I feel that only the professional reviews for any game should be relevant to any discussion about actual reviews of any game. It's just the way I'm wired.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 11, 2019 17:33:44 GMT
The funny thing is that the people posting all the fake reviews sometimes forget that they're fake. Thinking of the Thirteenth Doctor and TLJ in particular.
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Post by ahglock on Sept 11, 2019 19:29:43 GMT
No, in a discussion about professional reviews, they don't count. There are numerous of those "negative" reviews that give the game a 0/10. This is evidence of a "metabombing"; not reasonable reviews of the game. If you want to go through and sift out those 0/10 reviews and recount, you're welcome to do the work.
I find it interesting that you also declined to mention that on Xbox One, there were a total of 460 negative user reviews, but also 439 positive ones and 106 mixed ones. (I'm assuming the rather low number of 60 was a typo.) For the PS4 the complete splits for the User Revews is 1,388 positive, 504 mixed, and 1,729 negative. On PC, the totals are 1,496 positive, 556 mixed, and 1,844 negative.
For fairness, you may also want to sift out any of the 10/10 user reviews, since there was a "reaction" to the metabombing as well.
Andromeda got flooded with fake review bombing reviews. Same thing happened with TLJ. It's ok not to like something but the review needs to be better than just slapping a zero and saying it sucks or other silly reviews. Both generally got flooded with fake 10/10 reviews as well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 20:13:25 GMT
Andromeda got flooded with fake review bombing reviews. Same thing happened with TLJ. It's ok not to like something but the review needs to be better than just slapping a zero and saying it sucks or other silly reviews. Both generally got flooded with fake 10/10 reviews as well. Many of the 10/10 reviews, however, state outright that they are ranking the game that high as a direct reaction to the number of fake 0/10 reviews they noticed' and if one fully reads their comments they do actually review the game pretty thoroughly... including mentioning faults they saw in it. There are far more 0/10 reviews that just go on EA and SJW rants and don't really review the game itself at all. Some don't even mention the game.
In general, I'll consider a 10/10 review to possibly be more honest than any 0/10 one. As I said before, professional reviews will occasionally give games a 10/10 score, while I've never seen a 0/10 score from a professional. Professional 10/10's are probably still too generous overall (regardless of how good a game is, nothing is perfect); but IMO, virtually every game that boots up deserves at least something more than nothing. I just can't take any 0/10 rating seriously.
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Post by ahglock on Sept 11, 2019 20:21:48 GMT
Both generally got flooded with fake 10/10 reviews as well. Many of the 10/10 reviews, however, state outright that they are ranking the game that high as a direct reaction to the number of fake 0/10 reviews they noticed' and if one fully reads their comments they do actually review the game pretty thoroughly... including mentioning faults they saw in it. There are far more 0/10 reviews that just go on EA and SJW rants and don't really review the game itself at all. Some don't even mention the game. Sure, they maybe sometimes write better reviews on top of it. But in absolute numbers i am not sure its enough of a difference to skew the score much. Maybe the 0 would have realistically given it a 3, and then 10 would have given it a 8. Hard to say since so many people treat 0-10 differently. I'm unconsciously stuck on the American grading system where a 7 is average others put 5 as the average. Though to be fair 0 out of 10 is generous for TLJ, that movie sucked.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 20:42:06 GMT
Many of the 10/10 reviews, however, state outright that they are ranking the game that high as a direct reaction to the number of fake 0/10 reviews they noticed' and if one fully reads their comments they do actually review the game pretty thoroughly... including mentioning faults they saw in it. There are far more 0/10 reviews that just go on EA and SJW rants and don't really review the game itself at all. Some don't even mention the game. Sure, they maybe sometimes write better reviews on top of it. But in absolute numbers i am not sure its enough of a difference to skew the score much. Maybe the 0 would have realistically given it a 3, and then 10 would have given it a 8. Hard to say since so many people treat 0-10 differently. I'm unconsciously stuck on the American grading system where a 7 is average others put 5 as the average. Though to be fair 0 out of 10 is generous for TLJ, that movie sucked. It's hard to say how badly the results are skewed. Removing highs and lows is one common way of dealing with it, but there are recognized problems with that method. That's why I throw out the whole result. The User Reviews on Metacritic don't count for a hill of beans until Metacritic finds a way to filter the reviews as they are being given. Then, you run into the problem of the fairness of their filters and the "users" would get upset about it not being a "free speech" type platform, yada, yada, yada.
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Post by Hier0phant on Sept 11, 2019 21:33:20 GMT
No, in a discussion about professional reviews, they don't count. There are numerous of those "negative" reviews that give the game a 0/10. This is evidence of a "metabombing"; not reasonable reviews of the game. If you want to go through and sift out those 0/10 reviews and recount, you're welcome to do the work.
I find it interesting that you also declined to mention that on Xbox One, there were a total of 460 negative user reviews, but also 439 positive ones and 106 mixed ones. (I'm assuming the rather low number of 60 was a typo.) For the PS4 the complete splits for the User Revews is 1,388 positive, 504 mixed, and 1,729 negative. On PC, the totals are 1,496 positive, 556 mixed, and 1,844 negative.
For fairness, you may also want to sift out any of the 10/10 user reviews, since there was a "reaction" to the metabombing as well.
Andromeda got flooded with fake review bombing reviews. Same thing happened with TLJ. It's ok not to like something but the review needs to be better than just slapping a zero and saying it sucks or other silly reviews. On RT TLJ wasn't flooded with fake reviews. comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/20/rotten-tomatoes-denies-star-wars-the-last-jedi-audience-score-fa/
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 22:10:40 GMT
Some of it depends on whether or not you believe that individual people aren't capable of handwriting a "fake" review... that is, a review that is not an honest assessment of the work but based on a political bias, a corporate bias, or just a "click for kicks" to stir up some trouble sort of thing. The security and filters mentioned by Benson prevent bots and people/groups with multiple accounts from running up the numbers... but it still cannot be determined for certain whether a 0/10 or a 10/10 is a legitimate review without actually reading the contents of the individual review... and even then it is a subjective call since that sort of filtering is also susceptible to the bias of the person reading the reviews and filtering them.
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Post by Hier0phant on Sept 11, 2019 23:59:22 GMT
Some of it depends on whether or not you believe that individual people aren't capable of handwriting a "fake" review... that is, a review that is not an honest assessment of the work but based on a political bias, a corporate bias, or just a "click for kicks" to stir up some trouble sort of thing. The security and filters mentioned by Benson prevent bots and people/groups with multiple accounts from running up the numbers... but it still cannot be determined for certain whether a 0/10 or a 10/10 is a legitimate review without actually reading the contents of the individual review... and even then it is a subjective call since that sort of filtering is also susceptible to the bias of the person reading the reviews and filtering them. It all depends on the public review site and their capabilities. People entities will attempt to sabotage a review score but the security measures put into place to filter bots will also impact the volume of fraudulent reviews, by increasing the effort the saboteur needs to produce fraudulent reviews in order to avoid being flagged. The percentage score is currently the best defense against fraud due to the volume of reviews needed to alter it, and bots being the most common method in altering said score are easier to track. Mind you, me personally reviews with polar extreme scores should be quarantined until they're vetted by the staff based on loose criteria like volume, and being on topic to the film (example: "Ariel bore no resemblance to her toon incarnation" - Review for Godzilla vs King Kong)
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 12, 2019 2:45:53 GMT
It's not like there's anything that needs to be explained about TLJ. "Audience" scores are the scores of people who care enough to post, not the actual audience. If a film offends people who are really committed to that IP, well...
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Post by Hier0phant on Sept 12, 2019 4:37:14 GMT
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 12, 2019 14:33:19 GMT
star Wars does seem to punch above its weight when it comes to attracting douchebags to its fandom. I've never understood why.
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