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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 18, 2019 14:19:49 GMT
Andromeda traffic had fallen by 75% at the 2 month point Anthem traffic has fallen by 50% at the 2 month point While the percentages are enlightening, would you be so kind as to post some more data? Like, e.g. Anthem's traffic was 105% of Andromeda's traffic on release or something like that. It would be an interesting topic of discussion. To a place in order to get away from the constant toxicity that invaded this sub forum. Don't do that. That's uncalled for. We have people (fairly) grumbling about the game and also those still enjoying it. What if someone is enjoying the grumbling?
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 18, 2019 14:30:38 GMT
cypherj we aren't talking about you creating clickbait, but how the poll was created and picked up by media. My beef is that media has been very quick to jump on reddit news threads without fact checking or analyzing critically. It took less than 10 mins for me to verify where the poll came from. It's not just gaming news media really, stuff gets picked up on Facebook or Twitter and other social media sites like this all the time. It's well past time where we should be taking it at face value anymore.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 18, 2019 15:35:41 GMT
Large communities attract trolls like flies. You just have to account for that. Taking a sample at the reddit makes much more sense than going here. It wasn't a good quality poll, though. I read the original posting and source thread. Someone had to point out to the creator in the comments that it allowed people to vote multiple times and ask them politely to fix it. Professional polling companies and market researchers don't make these kinds of mistakes if they want the data to actually be useful. The post was deleted after one day (it was supposed to remain open for at least a week), but instead of reposting or sharing to other related subs, the results were simply posted the next day to a non Anthem related gaming sub, where it was promptly picked up media. What does that tell you. I would say the same had the poll been overwhelmingly positive. For some strange reason consumers are supposed to pretend like influencer marketing and clickbait aren't real things and not a multi billion dollar (and growing!) industry. Wait they had people vote multiple times? No wonder why results look so inflated.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 18, 2019 16:05:46 GMT
Large communities attract trolls like flies. You just have to account for that. Taking a sample at the reddit makes much more sense than going here. It wasn't a good quality poll, though. I read the original posting and source thread. Someone had to point out to the creator in the comments that it allowed people to vote multiple times and ask them politely to fix it. Professional polling companies and market researchers don't make these kinds of mistakes if they want the data to actually be useful. The post was deleted after one day (it was supposed to remain open for at least a week), but instead of reposting or sharing to other related subs, the results were simply posted the next day to a non Anthem related gaming sub, where it was promptly picked up media. What does that tell you. I would say the same had the poll been overwhelmingly positive. For some strange reason consumers are supposed to pretend like influencer marketing and clickbait aren't real things and not a multi billion dollar (and growing!) industry. Reddit just Reddit-ting
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 18, 2019 16:18:26 GMT
smilesja, it was possible when it was initially posted until another user caught it, and presumably fixed by the creator. I don't know if anyone actually was stacking votes, but the fact people can easily do so in internet polls is why data from them isn't always considered very useful or reliable. Had the user taken a few more steps to create a better quality poll, and had the journalist been a little more thorough reporting on it, it would be interesting, even if it still might not be representative. Similar to polls made here. A poll of only 1,000 participants can be accurate within a margin of error but I would think it really needs to be measured based on the population size of likely customers--which would be however many copies the game sold (since we are discussing playerbase retention), across platforms. All this poll really tells us is how r/AnthemTheGame feels about it. When EA or whomever does surveys, they send out an email to their customers/subscribers. Of course they probably have their own internal metrics at this point and don't need to do that, and probably won't be sharing those numbers anytime soon. As I said, I would be surprised if there wasn't drop off after the bad press/reviews, rough launch, plus the normal drop off any new game has a month or so after release. But that doesn't make the poll good, or tell us how bad it is.
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Post by OdanUrr on Apr 18, 2019 17:02:20 GMT
This was posted in another thread, but it seems like something that should have its own.
All I'll say is that this is very concerning data if you're EA.
Maybe it's truly representative of the overall community, but I figure it's probably too small a sample from which to draw any conclusions as it stands.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 18, 2019 17:31:15 GMT
This was posted in another thread, but it seems like something that should have its own.
All I'll say is that this is very concerning data if you're EA.
Maybe it's truly representative of the overall community, but I figure it's probably too small a sample from which to draw any conclusions as it stands.
A poll can be 500 ppl and be accurate. They take polls of 1000 Americans out of 300 million and they're accurate most of the time. It's the methodology not the amount. But we're talking about gamers.
You don't have Republicans, Democrats and Independent or blacks, whites and Hispanics. The only qualifying metrics are did you buy the game and did you play it. Which is hard to verify as an independent entity. Pretty much only EA has the ability to do this, but they're the subject of the survey and have their own image/brand to worry about. Which is why you pretty much never see the results of their internal surveys.
People are basically saying that this entire forum has an agenda against this game.
Are we actually saying half the players experiencing bugs is far-fetched considering the state the game was released in? Are we saying that half the players thinking the loot system is bad is far-fetched considering the current loot system? Are we shocked that most of the people playing this also play other looter-shooters?
If the last two questions weren't there I doubt that anyone would have batted an eye at the other results of this survey.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 18, 2019 18:36:25 GMT
Wait when did people say that they believe that there’s an agenda against the game? They were questioning possible flaws of the survey.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 18, 2019 19:11:50 GMT
Wait when did people say that they believe that there’s an agenda against the game? They were questioning possible flaws of the survey.
Um no. All I'm seeing is how that forum is against the game. How people had to flee the forum and create their own because the main forum is so against the game. If people aren't saying that the forum is too biased against the game the be a good representation of the player base than what are they saying.
Just look at your own response to when someone said people could vote twice. You said oh, no wonder why the numbers are so skewed. Which means you automatically assumed that people voted more than once, and all the ones that did voted negatively. Why, because you believe that the people there are biased against the game.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 18, 2019 20:24:33 GMT
Speaking of this forum, just look at the interest here. Compare the amount of people viewing and commenting in the Anthem forum when the game came out to the number doing the same now. It's fallen way off, and the game hasn't even been out two months. People have moved. To a place in order to get away from the constant toxicity that invaded this sub forum.
What toxicity? Opinions of a contrary nature?
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 18, 2019 20:38:10 GMT
To be fair, a game with so many launch issues is going to have a rough time. We have both our skeptics and enthusiasts here, but I don't think this forum has had the drastic 'collapse' in its atmosphere as say Reddit which has gone from fan-boy heaven to dumpster party. We have people (fairly) grumbling about the game and also those still enjoying it. It'll probably be fine once the game has more content and fixes the loot system.
Revenue stream.
This game needs a revenue stream. Without a substantial player base the live-service revenue stream won't pay for the new content. How many players do you think will come back by the time the loot and content is fixed? My guess? they've move on to other games.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 18, 2019 21:26:59 GMT
Wait when did people say that they believe that there’s an agenda against the game? They were questioning possible flaws of the survey.
Um no. All I'm seeing is how that forum is against the game. How people had to flee the forum and create their own because the main forum is so against the game. If people aren't saying that the forum is too biased against the game the be a good representation of the player base than what are they saying.
Just look at your own response to when someone said people could vote twice. You said oh, no wonder why the numbers are so skewed. Which means you automatically assumed that people voted more than once, and all the ones that did voted negatively. Why, because you believe that the people there are biased against the game.
No? I’m just saying that it might play a factor in the possible skewing of the Stats. My feelings towards the Anthem subreddit are irrevelant.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: Mobius Y
PSN: Mobius_Y
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Post by Mobius Y on Apr 18, 2019 22:22:01 GMT
Um no. All I'm seeing is how that forum is against the game. How people had to flee the forum and create their own because the main forum is so against the game. If people aren't saying that the forum is too biased against the game the be a good representation of the player base than what are they saying.
Just look at your own response to when someone said people could vote twice. You said oh, no wonder why the numbers are so skewed. Which means you automatically assumed that people voted more than once, and all the ones that did voted negatively. Why, because you believe that the people there are biased against the game.
No? I’m just saying that it might play a factor in the possible skewing of the Stats. My feelings towards the Anthem subreddit were irrevelant. That’s not true. In this Age of Special Snowflakes, feelings are never irrelevant.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 18, 2019 22:32:48 GMT
Why shouldn't it be held to scrutiny? Assuming the integrity of the data, the poll is representative of how the sub feels, and I've explained why.
Apart from that, there have been recent conspiracy theories and unconfirmed rumors upvoted into the thousands, which were subsequently picked up by media and had to be later corrected. That does diminish credibility such that I wouldn't take any news generated out of there at face value without checking it. But that's just good practice anyway in the social media age.
It's plausible Anthem had a drop off of playerbase. It's plausible gamers are angry (about Anthem/EA, about bugs, about GAAS, etc). It's plausible clickbaity journalists are taking advantage of the situation to make money, because negativity sells and generates clicks. But why wouldn't I think the sub might have a clickbait problem currently, and news items out of there ought to held to a standard? I wouldn't have probably cared if it weren't for the fact it showed up in my Google news feed..
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Post by clips7 on Apr 19, 2019 2:29:16 GMT
As far as the poll is concerned, yeah the person who created it should have had parameters in place that only allow for you to vote once. I've seen polls here that stated, "you can choose more than one option...etc"....so that was just sloppy oversight by the person that created the poll and any time your polling strategy is compromised, it opens you up to skepticism. That said, there are folks here who view any type of just criticism as toxic..... ....i don't want Bioware to fail, but it was their choice to cut off a huge portion of the fan base with this game, dive into unknown territories with this loot game and then implement a sloppy post launch with little to no content and a game riddled with bugs and glitches and you don't feel folks have a legit reason to be upset? I'm sure Anthem has its audience....even those that are RPG fans, but alot of those rpg fans that would have purchased Anthem if it was a traditional RPG in the sense of Mass Effect and other Bioware games, have not purchased this game strictly because, this is not their type of game. Maybe Bioware will attract fans from other players that like loot games, but the first impression has already been corrupted with its release and those players from other better crafted loot games have come and gone. My point is that i feel even with the player base Anthem has with its loyal Bioware fans, and newcomers it tries to pull from other looter games, i think the overall base is still smaller than what it would have been if Anthem was a solid SP experience. Myself as an example (not that i represent the entirety of Bioware fans) was initially excited for Anthem, even giving it a chance when they stated they had something for the SP crowd....*lol*.....but the looter aspect just isn't my thing, and the story is lacking depth....that's one sale of Anthem not being purchased because of it not being a traditional SP RPG... This game is going to require transactions to keep it alive and a decent player base is the only way that is going to happen since the bottom line in this entire scenario is Anthem making money for EA.....patches are not cheap and cost EA thousands of dollars...EA will allow the bleeding for so long and if they feel the game is getting no traction, they will cut their loses....i don't think they would fold Bioware, but Anthem would definitely get axed. We'll see how the updates and next live-stream fares tho....since these new strongholds are supposed to be when Anthen finally starts to get some interesting content.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 19, 2019 3:18:32 GMT
Why shouldn't it be held to scrutiny? Assuming the integrity of the data, the poll is representative of how the sub feels, and I've explained why. Apart from that, there have been recent conspiracy theories and unconfirmed rumors upvoted into the thousands, which were subsequently picked up by media and had to be later corrected. That does diminish credibility such that I wouldn't take any news generated out of there at face value without checking it. But that's just good practice anyway in the social media age. It's plausible Anthem had a drop off of playerbase. It's plausible gamers are angry (about Anthem/EA, about bugs, about GAAS, etc). It's plausible clickbaity journalists are taking advantage of the situation to make money, because negativity sells and generates clicks. But why wouldn't I think the sub might have a clickbait problem currently, and news items out of there ought to held to a standard? I wouldn't have probably cared if it weren't for the fact it showed up in my Google news feed.. It's funny, one thousand votes isn't a large enough sample to represent the player base, but a post that gets a thousand upvotes is enough to represent a community of almost 200K ppl. I figure the same percentage of ppl here thought that EA was using an algorithm to make ppl spend more money, or think that Bioware sabotaged their own livestream. Is that thinking representative of this forum as a whole? Like I said before the only reason people circled the wagons about this survey was because of the results that 50% ppl quit the game. None of the other answers raise the eyebrow but that one. So people wanted to rush in a defend the game. People who are dissatisfied with something are always more likely to respond to something that is more of a customer satisfaction survey. Has nothing to do with demographics, where the survey was given, or anything like that. It's just basic human nature. The only question is how much do you weigh that it the results. Even if you knock that numbers down to 30%, and that's being generous. 30% of the player base leaving wouldn't be any better in the overall grand scheme of things. One thing that always amazes me when I read posts is when people will say, yeah the game was released in a terrible state, yeah it has limited content, yeah the loot system can be improved, but it'll get better when they patch it and release more content. It'll be better in six months or in a year. Then these same people will turn around and act like it just totally out there that people would have stop playing the game in it's current state. The state that they just listed a laundry list of things wrong with.
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 19, 2019 4:54:39 GMT
Why shouldn't it be held to scrutiny? Assuming the integrity of the data, the poll is representative of how the sub feels, and I've explained why. Apart from that, there have been recent conspiracy theories and unconfirmed rumors upvoted into the thousands, which were subsequently picked up by media and had to be later corrected. That does diminish credibility such that I wouldn't take any news generated out of there at face value without checking it. But that's just good practice anyway in the social media age. It's plausible Anthem had a drop off of playerbase. It's plausible gamers are angry (about Anthem/EA, about bugs, about GAAS, etc). It's plausible clickbaity journalists are taking advantage of the situation to make money, because negativity sells and generates clicks. But why wouldn't I think the sub might have a clickbait problem currently, and news items out of there ought to held to a standard? I wouldn't have probably cared if it weren't for the fact it showed up in my Google news feed.. It's funny, one thousand votes isn't a large enough sample to represent the player base, but a post that gets a thousand upvotes is enough to represent a community of almost 200K ppl. I figure the same percentage of ppl here thought that EA was using an algorithm to make ppl spend more money, or think that Bioware sabotaged their own livestream. Is that thinking representative of this forum as a whole? Like I said before the only reason people circled the wagons about this survey was because of the results that 50% ppl quit the game. None of the other answers raise the eyebrow but that one. So people wanted to rush in a defend the game. People who are dissatisfied with something are always more likely to respond to something that is more of a customer satisfaction survey. Has nothing to do with demographics, where the survey was given, or anything like that. It's just basic human nature. The only question is how much do you weigh that it the results. Even if you knock that numbers down to 30%, and that's being generous. 30% of the player base leaving wouldn't be any better in the overall grand scheme of things. One thing that always amazes me when I read posts is when people will say, yeah the game was released in a terrible state, yeah it has limited content, yeah the loot system can be improved, but it'll get better when they patch it and release more content. It'll be better in six months or in a year. Then these same people will turn around and act like it just totally out there that people would have stop playing the game in it's current state. The state that they just listed a laundry list of things wrong with. I did say the poll was representative of the sub, but not the playerbase as a whole across platforms. Rumor/conspiracy theory posts getting 1k+ upvotes are relevant because they are attracting media attention as sources, which aren't being fact checked, and this happened more than once recently. The point about 50% quitting garnered more attention because it was headlined in a news article. The pattern is that the sub has a clickbait problem. I wouldn't have mentioned it, because it doesn't matter, but you asked how anyone could think there might be bias. I can't say, but perhaps some are trying to be fair to those who are disappointed, by acknowledging the full laundry list of flaws and complaints, even if they didn't agree or weren't personally effected as much by them all. If you are talking about a handful of people in a community trying to be civil and polite with one another.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 19, 2019 5:57:07 GMT
Why shouldn't it be held to scrutiny? Assuming the integrity of the data, the poll is representative of how the sub feels, and I've explained why. Apart from that, there have been recent conspiracy theories and unconfirmed rumors upvoted into the thousands, which were subsequently picked up by media and had to be later corrected. That does diminish credibility such that I wouldn't take any news generated out of there at face value without checking it. But that's just good practice anyway in the social media age. It's plausible Anthem had a drop off of playerbase. It's plausible gamers are angry (about Anthem/EA, about bugs, about GAAS, etc). It's plausible clickbaity journalists are taking advantage of the situation to make money, because negativity sells and generates clicks. But why wouldn't I think the sub might have a clickbait problem currently, and news items out of there ought to held to a standard? I wouldn't have probably cared if it weren't for the fact it showed up in my Google news feed.. Like I said before the only reason people circled the wagons about this survey was because of the results that 50% ppl quit the game. None of the other answers raise the eyebrow but that one. So people wanted to rush in a defend the game. That’s your speculation, people already stated the flaws of the survey I mean the mods of the subreddit removed it for a reason.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 19, 2019 6:44:56 GMT
Hm... What is interesting is that there is no counter-poll from those that disagree with the method taken by the first one. I mean, conduct your own poll if you are so put off by the first one. Let's see where that takes us.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 19, 2019 6:53:11 GMT
Like I said before the only reason people circled the wagons about this survey was because of the results that 50% ppl quit the game. None of the other answers raise the eyebrow but that one. So people wanted to rush in a defend the game. That’s your speculation, people already stated the flaws of the survey I mean the mods of the subreddit removed it for a reason.
And the reason is?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 19, 2019 10:17:40 GMT
Like I said before the only reason people circled the wagons about this survey was because of the results that 50% ppl quit the game. None of the other answers raise the eyebrow but that one. So people wanted to rush in a defend the game. That’s your speculation, people already stated the flaws of the survey I mean the mods of the subreddit removed it for a reason. Did you even bother to read why the poll was taken down, or any of the threads about why people voted the way they did? Obviously not. If you haven't even taken the time to play the full version of the game you're defending, why would you take the time to look at anything else.
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Thrombin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Apr 19, 2019 11:13:59 GMT
I notice 78% of the voters in the poll were significanlty into looter/shooters. I myself am having a great time with the game and haven't ever played a single looter/shooter mentioned on their list (with the exception of Destiny 1 which I gave up on because I didn't like the roleplaying aspects or presentation of the story).
So we know that 53% of mostly looter/shooter lovers left the game but we have very little idea how many kept with it who were attracted by Bioware's strengths on the roleplaying/story side. I may be wrong but I expect the demographic on question 2 might be quite different when applied to this forum and the other answers might vary because of that.
Of course they'll need to progress the story to continue to hold the interest of that group though, loot system improvements or no loot system improvements!
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 19, 2019 12:26:54 GMT
There are maybe 2-3 hours of story content in Anthem. If someone wanted to play this game mostly for story/roleplaying, then they probably went to play other games much faster than looter shooter fans.
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cypherj
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 19, 2019 13:08:51 GMT
There are maybe 2-3 hours of story content in Anthem. If someone wanted to play this game mostly for story/roleplaying, then they probably went to play other games much faster than looter shooter fans.
I don't know about this. My best friend moved on, and I was still willing to give it a chance. He said, and I think I posted this before. Why would I play a looter shooter, when the loot sucks. Then asked would I play an RPG, where the characters and story suck. So he has a checklist of things he's looking for in a looter shooter just like I do for SP RPGs.
So when the Division II came out he bolted to something that checked off more things on his list. I can't say for sure that the Division II is better because I haven't played it, and with Anthem being my first looter-shooter this is the only example I have of one. But I trust my best friend's opinion.
It's not far fetched to think that looter shooter vets went back to what they were playing, or onto the newest one if they thought those games did things better.
The reason I ultimately stopped was because the rewards for advancing through the endgame content weren't worth the increased time and effort involved. There's no reason to play this game past GM1, and the rewards for the larger endgame quests aren't worth the time it would take to complete them.
With my luck with quickplay, I honestly doubt I would even be able to complete the required number.
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Post by solomace on Apr 19, 2019 14:54:31 GMT
That’s your speculation, people already stated the flaws of the survey I mean the mods of the subreddit removed it for a reason. Did you even bother to read why the poll was taken down, or any of the threads about why people voted the way they did? Obviously not. If you haven't even taken the time to play the full version of the game you're defending, why would you take the time to look at anything else. Still not bought it? Surely you jest. I thought it would have been a purchase straight away as soon as they got called out.
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