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Post by river82 on May 3, 2019 22:36:33 GMT
ALL the DA2 love interests were either morons or batshit crazy or both! The two companions who were emotionally stable, Varric and Aveline, were sadly not romance options. Bioware trolled hard in this game... Isabela is the lesser idiot of them and I even like her a lot. I still have PTSD from romancing Fenris - twice! For some insane reason I thought maybe if Hawke wasn't a mage this time and a mage hater herself he would be less of an insufferable asshole to her. But whoops, no! That was painful... Man, Bioware has turned me into a mage AND elf hater! Turned me from a free mages shouting tree hugger into a racist. And I'm not even sorry after all the shit that keeps happening thanks to their arrogance and stupidity, lol. My Lavellan is coming for you, Solas, with her murder knife... Bioware did a good job getting people to symapthise with mages in Origins. Afterward they did a real good job of getting people to hate mage's guts. It's to the point that I'd side with the templars at any given opportunity merely because I know Bioware wants me to side with the mages. Welp, nobody tells me what to do ...
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Post by Catilina on May 3, 2019 23:23:32 GMT
Another Mage–Templar war I love it! And love, how people love the "grey" decisions, the "neutrality". Seems Bioware did a good work to make the oppression, genocide as "grey" option. And suggests that's "boring politics", if someone speaks against the oppression – just whines, nothing more. But someone who thinks, that's a valid option, just wise. I can't wait, when people will accept the slavery in Tevinter, because of the rebellion would cause chaos in Tevinter. Grey Neutrality(TM) for the win! The change is the chaos itself! (The acceptance of the neutrality sometimes the best way to support the tyrants.) river82 : if yiu feel, the Bioware forces you to sympathize the mages, I think, rather YOU feel they deserve the support. Bioware doesn't suggest that.
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Post by Catilina on May 3, 2019 23:50:53 GMT
ALL the DA2 love interests were either morons or batshit crazy or both! The two companions who were emotionally stable, Varric and Aveline, were sadly not romance options. Bioware trolled hard in this game... Isabela is the lesser idiot of them and I even like her a lot. I still have PTSD from romancing Fenris - twice! For some insane reason I thought maybe if Hawke wasn't a mage this time and a mage hater herself he would be less of an insufferable asshole to her. But whoops, no! That was painful... Man, Bioware has turned me into a mage AND elf hater! Turned me from a free mages shouting tree hugger into a racist. And I'm not even sorry after all the shit that keeps happening thanks to their arrogance and stupidity, lol. My Lavellan is coming for you, Solas, with her murder knife... Neither Anders nor Fenris weren't "morons" or "batshit crazy". And I don't understand what turned you into a racist mage hater in DA2. If the mages are arrogant and stupid, how you can call the Templars/Seekers?
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Post by Iakus on May 3, 2019 23:59:21 GMT
If the mages are arrogant and stupid, how you can call the Templars/Seekers? There was plenty of stupid to go around, tbh. Me, if I had the option, I would have had Hawke leave that batsh*t crazy town after "All that Remains"
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Post by Catilina on May 4, 2019 0:05:10 GMT
If the mages are arrogant and stupid, how you can call the Templars/Seekers? There was plenty of stupid to go around, tbh. Me, if I had the option, I would have had Hawke leave that batsh*t crazy town after "All that Remains" Remember: Hawke didn't want to go there, it was Leandra. Hawke warned her, that's not the best idea. But later, probably Hawke started to love that place. (Probably the less dogshit was the reason or that rat urine in The Hanged Man? Or that nice estate and the title with a shiny medal?)
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Post by Iakus on May 4, 2019 0:16:06 GMT
There was plenty of stupid to go around, tbh. Me, if I had the option, I would have had Hawke leave that batsh*t crazy town after "All that Remains" Remember: Hawke didn't want to go there, it was Leandra. Hawke warned her, that's not the best idea. But later, probably Hawke started to love that place. (Probably the less dogshit was the reason or that rat urine in The Hanged Man? Or that nice estate and the title with a shiny medal?) My Hawke didn't. He stayed for Leandra's sake. And after she was gone he wanted nothing more than to be rid of the place. Let the Qunari have it for all he cared.
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Post by Catilina on May 4, 2019 0:19:33 GMT
Remember: Hawke didn't want to go there, it was Leandra. Hawke warned her, that's not the best idea. But later, probably Hawke started to love that place. (Probably the less dogshit was the reason or that rat urine in The Hanged Man? Or that nice estate and the title with a shiny medal?) My Hawke didn't. He stayed for Leandra's sake. And after she was gone he wanted nothing more than to be rid of the place. Let the Qunari have it for all he cared. Yes, it would be a nice option, and game over.
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Post by dirtydiscolux on May 4, 2019 0:54:43 GMT
Remember: Hawke didn't want to go there, it was Leandra. Hawke warned her, that's not the best idea. But later, probably Hawke started to love that place. (Probably the less dogshit was the reason or that rat urine in The Hanged Man? Or that nice estate and the title with a shiny medal?) My Hawke didn't. He stayed for Leandra's sake. And after she was gone he wanted nothing more than to be rid of the place. Let the Qunari have it for all he cared. I wanted to be rid of Kirkwall at the start of ACT3. IMO, there was no incentive for my Hawke to stick around. I could not have cared less about Kirkwall. I just wanted to take Merrill and leave.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on May 4, 2019 1:13:06 GMT
My Hawke didn't. He stayed for Leandra's sake. And after she was gone he wanted nothing more than to be rid of the place. Let the Qunari have it for all he cared. I wanted to be rid of Kirkwall at the start of ACT3. IMO, there was no incentive for my Hawke to stick around. I could not have cared less about Kirkwall. I just wanted to take Merrill and leave. I second that. and, eewww, Anders. He was better off in DAO:A.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 4, 2019 1:29:17 GMT
If the mages are arrogant and stupid, how you can call the Templars/Seekers? There was plenty of stupid to go around, tbh. Me, if I had the option, I would have had Hawke leave that batsh*t crazy town after "All that Remains" I wanted nothing more than to head back to Ferelden once the blight was ended. One of the (many) reasons I found it so difficult to play DA2. Going to Kirkwall to escape the blight was like out of the frying pan...
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Post by dirtydiscolux on May 4, 2019 2:05:40 GMT
There was plenty of stupid to go around, tbh. Me, if I had the option, I would have had Hawke leave that batsh*t crazy town after "All that Remains" I wanted nothing more than to head back to Ferelden once the blight was ended. One of the (many) reasons I found it so difficult to play DA2. Going to Kirkwall to escape the blight was like out of the frying pan... I can live with the reused assets but having literally no reason to stay in Kirkwall once the blight was over was such a massive oversight, IMO. I know they were crunched for time, but it was just so absurd that my Hawke would stick around. Blight over + striking it rich in the deep roads = leaving Kirkwall. I did not care about the mage/templar bullshit at all.
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Post by masterwarderz on May 4, 2019 2:11:06 GMT
I wanted to be rid of Kirkwall at the start of ACT3. IMO, there was no incentive for my Hawke to stick around. I could not have cared less about Kirkwall. I just wanted to take Merrill and leave. I second that. and, eewww, Anders. He was better off in DAO:A. There he can die like a hero surrounded by darkspawn corpses, in DA II he dies in generic alley 2,956 with a constipated look on his face. While hilarious Osama Bin Anders does sort of ruin the character, they turned him into kinda a moronic parody. Which again funny, not so much anything other then that besides a whole lot of stupid.
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Post by masterwarderz on May 4, 2019 2:12:29 GMT
My Hawke didn't. He stayed for Leandra's sake. And after she was gone he wanted nothing more than to be rid of the place. Let the Qunari have it for all he cared. Yes, it would be a nice option, and game over. Like a knife in the back and a sudden bout of constipation.
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Post by river82 on May 4, 2019 6:08:47 GMT
river82 : if yiu feel, the Bioware forces you to sympathize the mages, I think, rather YOU feel they deserve the support. Bioware doesn't suggest that. They don't force me to sympathise, but they do want people to sympathise. Take for example the amount of time spent on mages and their plight compared with showing the templars point of view, which is a technique used to develop sympathy. Think about who the most important character in DA:2 was, who the enemy is (from that character's point of view) and whose 'side' we got the most exposure to. It's pretty obvious exactly where Bioware wants you to place your sympathies. And being the contrarian I am … not a chance.
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Post by Felya87 on May 4, 2019 9:44:15 GMT
I wanted nothing more than to head back to Ferelden once the blight was ended. One of the (many) reasons I found it so difficult to play DA2. Going to Kirkwall to escape the blight was like out of the frying pan... I can live with the reused assets but having literally no reason to stay in Kirkwall once the blight was over was such a massive oversight, IMO. I know they were crunched for time, but it was just so absurd that my Hawke would stick around. Blight over + striking it rich in the deep roads = leaving Kirkwall. I did not care about the mage/templar bullshit at all. It made even less sense if Hawke was a mage. Why would she stay in a town that is becaming more and more dangerous to mages (or because of them) by the day? She got money, no more relatives that live with her, and even the romantic side was either better getting away from Kirkwall too, or left there at all and Hawke getting a new more sane love. I always go back there, but I feel DA2 had too much one-note characters, and too much "he/she has gone Craaaaazyyyyy!!!" motivation for characters.
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Post by Catilina on May 4, 2019 10:43:42 GMT
DA2 about the Mage–Templar issues. Who doesn't care about that, probably doesn't really like the whole game. What remains, if you put off that from the formula? My favourite part of the Dragon Age. The Templars are better enemies, than the Darkspawn, more personal, the Drakspawn only brainless monsters (except the Architect.) river82 I see your point. You think, that as Hawke, who born in the apostate family, the game forces you to protect your kind. Not forces, in fact, the game try to convince you that even as a mage, the Templar path is a valid choice. The developers were surprised, how much player chose the mages over the Templars. Some people still able to say, that the mad criminal "Meredith has a point"...
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Post by witchcocktor on May 4, 2019 12:33:41 GMT
The mage-templar issue is one of the biggest flaws and annoyances in the Dragon Age world. I hate it, it sucks, I wish it never existed. It's the reason I'll never play mages in DA.
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Post by Catilina on May 4, 2019 12:38:13 GMT
The mage-templar issue is one of the biggest flaws and annoyances in the Dragon Age world. I hate it, it sucks, I wish it never existed. It's the reason I'll never play mages in DA. The Mage–Templar issue is the best part of the Dragon Age!
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Post by Hier0phant on May 4, 2019 14:45:34 GMT
The sad part is that i find him to be less reprehensible than Isabela. Really? So issabela who is a pirate and sleeps with anyone is more reprehensible then anders who takes in a spirit when he knows it's a bad idea and eventually blows up a huge church and kills lots of innocent people including all the mages at the gallows who die in the following battle. Not to mention knowingly started a war that caused countless innocent people to die. Seriously that isn't worse then a slutty pirate who has someone after her because she freed slaves even though it put her in alot of danger. Not to mention that if hawk does anders quest in act 3 then he USED her to commit such an act without knowing. Yeah he loved hawk alright.
Isabela led the Qunari to Kirkwall after stealing their sacred text. The Arishok who was fed up after searching for the tome for years goes ape on Kirkwall's citizenry, and could have potentially set off another world war. Isabela initially chose to skip town with the tome instead of deescalating the stituation. Ordered a shipment of slaves she was transporting to be drowned in order to escape the Orlesian navy, knowingly gave Bran the clap not giving a damn because Anders could just magic it away, and tries to corrupt the sweet innocent Bethaney. Isabela's a shitter.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 4, 2019 15:12:22 GMT
river82 : if yiu feel, the Bioware forces you to sympathize the mages, I think, rather YOU feel they deserve the support. Bioware doesn't suggest that. They don't force me to sympathise, but they do want people to sympathise. Take for example the amount of time spent on mages and their plight compared with showing the templars point of view, which is a technique used to develop sympathy. Think about who the most important character in DA:2 was, who the enemy is (from that character's point of view) and whose 'side' we got the most exposure to. It's pretty obvious exactly where Bioware wants you to place your sympathies. And being the contrarian I am … not a chance. I don't think I've ever felt so set-up and manipulated in a game as I did with DA2. Hawke is the child of an apostate who grew up in a family trying to stay one step ahead of teh evulz templars coming for daddy (and sister and possibly your character). Apparently because Greagoir and Irving were so awful, giving respected senior mages leave to help fight the blight or pursue their botanical hobby in the Wending Wood or attend a conference in Cumberland or serve in some noble's courts... while trying to deal with the hellscape unleashed by a few malcontents in the confines of their own tower. The family portrait was complete with a sweet, high-friendship apostate sister and a snarly high-rivalry templar wanna be brother. Not forces, in fact, the game try to convince you that even as a mage, the Templar path is a valid choice. The developers were surprised, how much player chose the mages over the Templars. Wholesale slaughter of a bunch of innocents - some children, many of whom aren't even trying to fight back - in response to the actions of one completely unrelated abomination is hardly a reasonable choice to offer players. The mage-templar issue is one of the biggest flaws and annoyances in the Dragon Age world. I hate it, it sucks, I wish it never existed. It's the reason I'll never play mages in DA. I liked it as background flavor (ala DAO), but got sick to death of being beaten over the head with it in DA2. I got it in DAO. That either side would seek more power or abuse their position was hardly a revelation that I needed to be presented with over and over and over with every possible permutation examined in great gory detail. I don't ever play mages in DA, either. Partly because of the lore, partly because of the ugly robes. I did try a mage in DA2 once (mostly so I could have a healer past Act 1 without having to listen to Anders' constant whining), but it was really hard for me to get past just how ludicrous it is for a mage to be walking around in Kirkwall (Cullen: Mages aren't people like you and me...). The story/lore v gameplay separation in that game took my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point - and beyond. Barrels of blood, exploding giblets, and ninja flips don't do much to enhance any sense of realism in a game that purports to deal with deep, dark subject matter. I think this vid kinda says it all: I think the worst of it was the fact that the ending of DA2 guaranteed we'd have to continue with mages v templars as main text well into DA's future.
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Post by Catilina on May 4, 2019 15:36:51 GMT
Polka Dot 1. Carver's not a "wannabe Templar", that's his wrong choice, I think he regretted already, if he became one thanks to Aveline and his naive defiance. If he become a Grey Warden, he hates if Hawke supports the Templars – their enemies. 2. Carver is great. I love him as a Templar and as a Grey Warden too. The only real reason to a mage Hawke to side the Templars at the end is that little bastard Carver. 3. The game tries to convince people, that the Templars in DA2 is just as a good choice, like the mages (this isn't right, but they still try to suggest). 4. My first origin was Circle Mage. I found the Kinloch Hold awful, Irving is an opportunist old bastard, who expected from his apprentice to betray his/her best friend, and sacrificed his apprentice, even if s/he was loyal to him and to the Circle. Greagoir – well a Templar, not better that the others, but not even worse. He wanted to kill my Warden, and this was mutual. 5. The best end in DA2 that glorious exile, and hope, the rebellion will destroy that terrible system. This is the happy end. Hawke can lose everything but fight for the right cause. 6. To play as a mage is fun. Hawke will not use conflagration in the public streets. Just use your imagine. Hawke even don't forced to wear robes. 7. Anders doesn't "whine". He just talked about real problems. Everything what he said proved.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 4, 2019 15:40:32 GMT
Can we not have yet another pointless Mage-Templar debate? There are dozens of threads for that already.
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Post by witchcocktor on May 4, 2019 15:41:39 GMT
They don't force me to sympathise, but they do want people to sympathise. Take for example the amount of time spent on mages and their plight compared with showing the templars point of view, which is a technique used to develop sympathy. Think about who the most important character in DA:2 was, who the enemy is (from that character's point of view) and whose 'side' we got the most exposure to. It's pretty obvious exactly where Bioware wants you to place your sympathies. And being the contrarian I am … not a chance. I don't think I've ever felt so set-up and manipulated in a game as I did with DA2. Hawke is the child of an apostate who grew up in a family trying to stay one step ahead of teh evulz templars coming for daddy (and sister and possibly your character). Apparently because Greagoir and Irving were so awful, giving respected senior mages leave to help fight the blight or pursue their botanical hobby in the Wending Wood or attend a conference in Cumberland or serve in some noble's courts... while trying to deal with the hellscape unleashed by a few malcontents in the confines of their own tower. The family portrait was complete with a sweet, high-friendship apostate sister and a snarly high-rivalry templar wanna be brother. Not forces, in fact, the game try to convince you that even as a mage, the Templar path is a valid choice. The developers were surprised, how much player chose the mages over the Templars. Wholesale slaughter of a bunch of innocents - some children, many of whom aren't even trying to fight back - in response to the actions of one completely unrelated abomination is hardly a reasonable choice to offer players. The mage-templar issue is one of the biggest flaws and annoyances in the Dragon Age world. I hate it, it sucks, I wish it never existed. It's the reason I'll never play mages in DA. I liked it as background flavor (ala DAO), but got sick to death of being beaten over the head with it in DA2. I got it in DAO. That either side would seek more power or abuse their position was hardly a revelation that I needed to be presented with over and over and over with every possible permutation examined in great gory detail. I don't ever play mages in DA, either. Partly because of the lore, partly because of the ugly robes. I did try a mage in DA2 once (mostly so I could have a healer past Act 1 without having to listen to Anders' constant whining), but it was really hard for me to get past just how ludicrous it is for a mage to be walking around in Kirkwall (Cullen: Mages aren't people like you and me...). The story/lore v gameplay separation in that game took my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point - and beyond. Barrels of blood, exploding giblets, and ninja flips don't do much to enhance any sense of realism in a game that purports to deal with deep, dark subject matter. I think this vid kinda says it all: I think the worst of it was the fact that the ending of DA2 guaranteed we'd have to continue with mages v templars as main text well into DA's future. The biggest issue for me is that they took a class I love, gave it a huge amount of lore baggage and also merged all possible mage classes together. There is no real noticeable difference between a mage who uses just ice mage, all elemental magic equally, rift magic or necromancy. It's all the same, they are all just mages and the only noticeable difference between their culture is how they are treated in different nations/clans/areas. The whole issue is so drawn out, and there is no end in sight. There is no resolve, and there won't be. It's going to keep on going until the end of the series. My secret hope that Solas will do something in DA4 which will end up with everyone becoming mages, magic powers completely disappearing into thin air or mages becoming less of a threat leaving only the loud tiny tiny minority to protest against mages. But I don't see that happening lol.
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Post by Catilina on May 4, 2019 15:47:24 GMT
I don't think I've ever felt so set-up and manipulated in a game as I did with DA2. Hawke is the child of an apostate who grew up in a family trying to stay one step ahead of teh evulz templars coming for daddy (and sister and possibly your character). Apparently because Greagoir and Irving were so awful, giving respected senior mages leave to help fight the blight or pursue their botanical hobby in the Wending Wood or attend a conference in Cumberland or serve in some noble's courts... while trying to deal with the hellscape unleashed by a few malcontents in the confines of their own tower. The family portrait was complete with a sweet, high-friendship apostate sister and a snarly high-rivalry templar wanna be brother. Wholesale slaughter of a bunch of innocents - some children, many of whom aren't even trying to fight back - in response to the actions of one completely unrelated abomination is hardly a reasonable choice to offer players. I liked it as background flavor (ala DAO), but got sick to death of being beaten over the head with it in DA2. I got it in DAO. That either side would seek more power or abuse their position was hardly a revelation that I needed to be presented with over and over and over with every possible permutation examined in great gory detail. I don't ever play mages in DA, either. Partly because of the lore, partly because of the ugly robes. I did try a mage in DA2 once (mostly so I could have a healer past Act 1 without having to listen to Anders' constant whining), but it was really hard for me to get past just how ludicrous it is for a mage to be walking around in Kirkwall (Cullen: Mages aren't people like you and me...). The story/lore v gameplay separation in that game took my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point - and beyond. Barrels of blood, exploding giblets, and ninja flips don't do much to enhance any sense of realism in a game that purports to deal with deep, dark subject matter. I think this vid kinda says it all: I think the worst of it was the fact that the ending of DA2 guaranteed we'd have to continue with mages v templars as main text well into DA's future. The biggest issue for me is that they took a class I love, gave it a huge amount of lore baggage and also merged all possible mage classes together. There is no real noticeable difference between a mage who uses just ice mage, all elemental magic equally, rift magic or necromancy. It's all the same, they are all just mages and the only noticeable difference between their culture is how they are treated in different nations/clans/areas. The whole issue is so drawn out, and there is no end in sight. There is no resolve, and there won't be. It's going to keep on going until the end of the series. My secret hope that Solas will do something in DA4 which will end up with everyone becoming mages, magic powers completely disappearing into thin air or mages becoming less of a threat leaving only the loud tiny tiny minority to protest against mages. But I don't see that happening lol. This is a fair point, and the DAI is the worst from this angle. Every talent tree (not only the mage) are boring as hell compared the other two games. The companions also don't have special abilities. Cassandra is a simple Templar, nothing more. Pathetic.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,875 Likes: 49,330
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,330
Iakus
20,875
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iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on May 4, 2019 16:04:00 GMT
DA2 about the Mage–Templar issues. Who doesn't care about that, probably doesn't really like the whole game. What remains, if you put off that from the formula? My favourite part of the Dragon Age. The Templars are better enemies, than the Darkspawn, more personal, the Drakspawn only brainless monsters (except the Architect.) river82 I see your point. You think, that as Hawke, who born in the apostate family, the game forces you to protect your kind. Not forces, in fact, the game try to convince you that even as a mage, the Templar path is a valid choice. The developers were surprised, how much player chose the mages over the Templars. Some people still able to say, that the mad criminal "Meredith has a point"... Unfortunately you only really get to see Meredith's point if you're already siding with her. Preaching to the choir isn't a very good way to convince skeptics.
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