melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Apr 18, 2019 0:43:20 GMT
Here is the thing. Sony, is imposing limitations on acceptable sexual explicit content for Playstation games. This may or may not impact DA4, depending on the studio's vision of the end-game romance whirlwind.
Will Microsoft follow suit? Or, will Bio simply animate another scene for the PlayStation leaving the real goodies elsewhere?
Comments?
Can you post the full article? The link is to WSJ which requires a sub/log-in to read more than two sentences.
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 18, 2019 1:07:58 GMT
Meh too. Bioware has never really had the touch for sex scenes. Their writing generally isn't either elegant or ballsy enough to make it more than a perfunctory climax to a romance arc, and their animation isn't impressive enough to make it anything other than awkward visually. I'm more concerned about other games. The Witcher series and the upcoming Cyberpunk (seem to) handle sex and nudity with a lot more nonchalance, befitting grittier and more raw storytelling. It'd be a shame if their style was cramped by executives terrified of pearl-clutching parents. I wouldn't blame anyone for treating sex and violence differently, though. Most of us in the western world don't have a real relationship with violence and what it really means and feels like, so watching it happen on a screen and just enjoying the adrenaline rush and getting off some excess aggression by proxy is the simplest thing in the world, so long as it doesn't go too far - which it absolutely still could, way beyond anything ever shown in any video game to date. But we all have a certain weird relationship with sex, and it breeds insecurity like literally nothing else because it's such a deep motivation for a lot of how we act and think no matter who or where we are. And people disagree about it, vehemently, and attach wildly different meanings to it depending on their own experience of it and where they are in their lives, making it much easier to just it shove into a corner where we don't have to deal with it for a while and pretend it isn't, and shouldn't be, part of proceedings.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 18, 2019 1:10:46 GMT
Breeds insecurity? In who?
I know more people who find seeing violence disturbing.
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 18, 2019 1:14:30 GMT
Breeds insecurity? In who?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 18, 2019 3:30:56 GMT
Lol. The Western world has no relationship with violence, it just has violence happening in it all the time, and exports violence to other places.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 18, 2019 3:39:55 GMT
Guess no one remembers the fully-clothed sex scenes from Dragon Age 1&2 and ME 2&3. I mean c'mon now. Who doesn't get all hot and bothered when they see their partner taking a shower in their underwear?
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 18, 2019 4:54:43 GMT
Lol. The Western world has no relationship with violence, it just has violence happening in it all the time, and exports violence to other places. What cutting historical and sociopolitical insight.
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Post by Masque on Apr 18, 2019 9:06:59 GMT
Or, as a Solasmancer, no sex scene at all.
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Post by Felya87 on Apr 18, 2019 9:12:00 GMT
From what I read around, it's more about Sony deciding to start cutting off/at least having less lampant loli and underage looking sexualized women that are common in many japanese games, so to be seen less "pervy" from the occident market.
Since I doubt BioWare is ever going with the "twelve years old girl, but is actually a thousands years old dragon so you can perv on her with no remorse", I see no problem here.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Apr 18, 2019 10:18:47 GMT
From what I read around, it's more about Sony deciding to start cutting off/at least having less lampant loli and underage looking sexualized women that are common in many japanese games, so to be seen less "pervy" from the occident market. If this is the reason beyond that I can tell you it's a lost battle. Anti-lolicon decree has existed since 2010 in Japan and do you know what changed after it? Nothing. They continue to exist in any kind of media and you won't get rid of them anytime soon. In the end it will result in Sony bothering western devs for showing a tit of a 30yo in a game while eastern players will continue to enjoy their hyper-sexualized teenagers, which are present in almost every anime, manga and game. And just to be clear, I have nothing against the latters, I am just pointing out that censorship is more likely to catch small fishes rather than clash against an entire collectivity.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 18, 2019 14:47:53 GMT
Guess no one remembers the fully-clothed sex scenes from Dragon Age 1&2 and ME 2&3. I mean c'mon now. Who doesn't get all hot and bothered when they see their partner taking a shower with their underwear on? Let's face it: sex scenes in video games are just overall cr*p.
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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 18, 2019 15:09:18 GMT
'' imposing limitations on acceptable sexual explicit content ''
So what's acceptable?
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Post by Iakus on Apr 18, 2019 15:30:32 GMT
'' imposing limitations on acceptable sexual explicit content '' So what's acceptable? What's explicit?
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Post by biggydx on Apr 18, 2019 16:17:42 GMT
Guess no one remembers the fully-clothed sex scenes from Dragon Age 1&2 and ME 2&3. I mean c'mon now. Who doesn't get all hot and bothered when they see their partner taking a shower with their underwear on? Let's face it: sex scenes in video games are just overall cr*p. I've always wondered how awkward its gotta be for the animators. Narrative Director: "Yeah, so I'm gonna need you to make sure his hand is grabbing her ass in this next scene" Animator: "Am I a joke to you?"
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 18, 2019 16:53:53 GMT
Honestly... I'm indifferent regarding how the love scenes are presented; a simple fade to black would be fine by me.Same. Honestly, I thought some of the romances in Andromeda went too far. Cora's had blatant sex, complete with full body shot of mRyder thrusting in to her. Jaal's was a lot, too. It wasn't the nakedness so much as the blatant porn that bugged me.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 18, 2019 16:56:36 GMT
Honestly... I'm indifferent regarding how the love scenes are presented; a simple fade to black would be fine by me. Same. Honestly, I thought some of the romances in Andromeda went too far. Cora's had blatant sex, complete with full body shot of mRyder thrusting in to her. Jaal's was a lot, too. It wasn't the nakedness so much as the blatant porn that bugged me. Don't forget Peebee. At least the other two scenes are somewhat avoidable.
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Post by Kabraxal on Apr 18, 2019 17:03:29 GMT
Honestly... I'm indifferent regarding how the love scenes are presented; a simple fade to black would be fine by me. Same. Honestly, I thought some of the romances in Andromeda went too far. Cora's had blatant sex, complete with full body shot of mRyder thrusting in to her. Jaal's was a lot, too. It wasn't the nakedness so much as the blatant porn that bugged me. You call that porn? And what is this strange stigma with sex? It is laughs le to associate it as weird and less acceptable as violence and death.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 18, 2019 17:08:20 GMT
Same. Honestly, I thought some of the romances in Andromeda went too far. Cora's had blatant sex, complete with full body shot of mRyder thrusting in to her. Jaal's was a lot, too. It wasn't the nakedness so much as the blatant porn that bugged me. Don't forget Peebee. At least the other two scenes are somewhat avoidable. Ah yes, Peebee. The asari who rides your pelvis regardless of the equipment available. lol Her's isn't as bad to me cus you don't see both naked bodies at once in the shot, I think? But only just.
Same. Honestly, I thought some of the romances in Andromeda went too far. Cora's had blatant sex, complete with full body shot of mRyder thrusting in to her. Jaal's was a lot, too. It wasn't the nakedness so much as the blatant porn that bugged me. You call that porn? And what is this strange stigma with sex? It is laughs le to associate it as weird and less acceptable as violence and death. I'm pretty sure there isn't even blood in Andromeda, so its not like explicit violence and death is a huge deal in it. Plus, the violence and death you are talking about (in Bioware games anyway) is usually justified self defense or defense of innocents, typically on a battlefield. That's good vs evil, adventuring type stuff. Which, yes, is more acceptable to me than a sex scene that is borderline porn or actual porn.
And yes, that scene in the Cora romance at least is definitely porn. Jaal going down on Ryder also qualifies, though they do cut away right before he gets there, so its slightly less so. You still hear it, though.
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Post by Kabraxal on Apr 18, 2019 17:18:24 GMT
Don't forget Peebee. At least the other two scenes are somewhat avoidable. Ah yes, Peebee. The asari who rides your pelvis regardless of the equipment available. lol Her's isn't as bad to me cus you don't see both naked bodies at once in the shot, I think? But only just.
You call that porn? And what is this strange stigma with sex? It is laughs le to associate it as weird and less acceptable as violence and death. I'm pretty sure there isn't even blood in Andromeda, so its not like explicit violence and death is a huge deal in it. Plus, the violence and death you are talking about (in Bioware games anyway) is usually justified self defense or defense of innocents, typically on a battlefield. That's good vs evil, adventuring type stuff. Which, yes, is more acceptable to me than a sex scene.
You can kill a helpless person and let another be assassinated. Yet sex is less acceptable? Our values are completely different apparently.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 18, 2019 17:24:24 GMT
Breeds insecurity? In who? I know more people who find seeing violence disturbing. My sex life is defined by insecurity. I like to RP heroes with no such issues. '' imposing limitations on acceptable sexual explicit content '' So what's acceptable? What's explicit? If Devil May Cry is any indication, the answer is nudity.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 18, 2019 17:37:18 GMT
Then cyberpunk 2077 would be outlawed from sony real quick and it has already been anounced it will be out on all major consoles. It is probably just sony looking to the future and basically saying no porn games. I don't think biowares sex scenes would even be on their radar. SO the fear that all romances are gonna be like joshpheines are pointless. People forget that their were games that were rated A a while ago but they never caught on since only certain places sold them. I don't ever remember seeing one but I think that is what sony would be talking about. So if it fits in the rated M category you will be fine.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 18, 2019 17:39:15 GMT
From what I read around, it's more about Sony deciding to start cutting off/at least having less lampant loli and underage looking sexualized women that are common in many japanese games, so to be seen less "pervy" from the occident market. Since I doubt BioWare is ever going with the "twelve years old girl, but is actually a thousands years old dragon so you can perv on her with no remorse", I see no problem here. Ah, that makes more sense. Because Japan has a completely opposite relationship with violence and sex than the US. They really love hypersexualized stuff but don't like blood much. Germany too censors violence a lot but not so much nudity. I think the US is a very particular case of sex shaming that we in Europe don't understand with our nude beaches and whatnot. The stuff I see in Japanese games at work... Usually results in asking them to maaaaybe tone down the pedophile vibe a bit?? My favorite example of totally fucked up to my European sensibilities was that one character from Xenoblade Chronicles 2. A 10 year old boy named Floren I think who dresses like a girl. The outfit has a big heart on his butt and when you unlock this character, the animation has some kind of sparkle shoot out of his ass. I kid you not! I don't remember if they change that before release or not. But that's where I personally draw the line. That's just messed up and I support removing this shit. Melon boobs and naked butts I couldn't care less about. That's just silly but imo not offensive because the Japanese hypersexualize the guys too. The more taboo you put on sex and the female body the more rape and violence against women you see. (Yes, I mean Islam.) You can read about tribal cultures where men and women are all naked. They have a super low number of rape! In some of these cultures only prostitutes (!) wear clothes. Think about that! When the white man came to these tribes and starting putting clothes on these women they started committing suicide! They felt so ashamed! You wrap a woman from top to bottom, you get men fantasizing and obsessing about what's beneath... An American friend of mine who's a nude photographer told me all these identical stories of the women who come to him. Often from repressed backgrounds. Once they got passed their insecurities and dropped their clothes something inside of them broke free. They started crying how amazing it feels. They became confident and full of joy. Some didn't want to put their clothes back on. They felt so liberated. Of course some of their controlling husbands didn't like it. So they had to stop. And all their confidence went poof. These are true stories. Nakedness is the most natural thing in the world. And women are most respected in societies that don't try to hide and suppress their femininity. The difference between the sexes is a thing of beauty and we should show it more! I get why Sony would want to do something about all the thinly veiled pedophilia in a lot of Japanese games. And I kind of want it gone too. BUT consider what happens when the audience for that gets their harmless outlet taken away? Kind of similar to making prostitution illegal. Sucks for the prostitutes who get knocked around and have no protection against violence. And where do all the men go and get sex otherwise then? Maybe a few get it in less consensual ways... I don't mind trading sex. It's a business and many do so by choice. The moment you put a taboo on something the problem gets WORSE. My two cents of the day.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 18, 2019 17:40:02 GMT
You can kill a helpless person and let another be assassinated. Yet sex is less acceptable? Our values are completely different apparently. I don't know what helpless person you are referencing there (tell me in a spoiler, please?), but there's nothing particularly bloody about the assassination from what I recall. So I don't think it technically falls under the kind of violence you are baffled people would leave uncensored while censoring nudity. Before we talk about this any further, am I correct in summing up your position on this as "Sex doesn't hurt anyone. Violence is the depiction of hurting someone. Hurting someone is bad, so if you are going to censor anything, you should censor that."?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 18, 2019 17:47:04 GMT
From what I read around, it's more about Sony deciding to start cutting off/at least having less lampant loli and underage looking sexualized women that are common in many japanese games, so to be seen less "pervy" from the occident market. Since I doubt BioWare is ever going with the "twelve years old girl, but is actually a thousands years old dragon so you can perv on her with no remorse", I see no problem here. Ah, that makes more sense. Because Japan has a completely opposite relationship with violence and sex than the US. They really love hypersexualized stuff but don't like blood much. Germany too censors violence a lot but not so much nudity. I think the US is a very particular case of sex shaming that we in Europe don't understand with our nude beaches and whatnot. The stuff I see in Japanese games at work... Usually results in asking them to maaaaybe tone down the pedophile vibe a bit?? My favorite example of totally fucked up to my European sensibilities was that one character from Xenoblade Chronicles 2. A 10 year old boy named Floren I think who dresses like a girl. The outfit has a big heart on his butt and when you unlock this character, the animation has some kind of sparkle shoot out of his ass. I kid you not! I don't remember if they change that before release or not. But that's where I personally draw the line. That's just messed up and I support removing this shit. Melon boobs and naked butts I couldn't care less about. That's just silly but imo not offensive because the Japanese hypersexualize the guys too. The more taboo you put on sex and the female body the more rape and violence against women you see. (Yes, I mean Islam.) You can read about tribal cultures where men and women are all naked. They have a super low number of rape! In some of these cultures only prostitutes (!) wear clothes. Think about that! When the white man came to these tribes and starting putting clothes on these women they started committing suicide! They felt so ashamed! You wrap a woman from top to bottom, you get men fantasizing and obsessing about what's beneath... An American friend of mine who's a nude photographer told me all these identical stories of the women who come to him. Often from repressed backgrounds. Once they got passed their insecurities and dropped their clothes something inside of them broke free. They started crying how amazing it feels. They became confident and full of joy. Some didn't want to put their clothes back on. They felt so liberated. Of course some of their controlling husbands didn't like it. So they had to stop. And all their confidence went poof. These are true stories. Nakedness is the most natural thing in the world. And women are most respected in societies that don't try to hide and suppress their femininity. The difference between the sexes is a thing of beauty and we should show it more! I get why Sony would want to do something about all the thinly veiled pedophilia in a lot of Japanese games. And I kind of want it gone too. BUT consider what happens when the audience for that gets their harmless outlet taken away? Kind of similar to making prostitution illegal. Sucks for the prostitutes who get knocked around and have no protection against violence. And where do all the men go and get sex otherwise then? Maybe a few get it in less consensual ways... I don't mind trading sex. It's a business and many do so by choice. The moment you put a taboo on something the problem gets WORSE. My two cents of the day. Damn that got dark REAL quick.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 18, 2019 17:49:00 GMT
Then cyberpunk 2077 would be outlawed from sony real quick and it has already been anounced it will be out on all major consoles. It is probably just sony looking to the future and basically saying no porn games. Or it means the nudity in Cyberpunk 2020 will be “covered.” In DMC, they used bright lights to cover the character’s naked bodies.
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