Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,875 Likes: 49,330
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iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 25, 2020 22:28:41 GMT
They almost never even acknowledged each other's presence! They had interactions with each other, in missions and even on the Normandy. But not in the way ME3 did them. The only interactions on the Normandy (save for the two confrontations) are the "welcome aboard" dialogues, which were limited to Miranda and Jacob.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 25, 2020 22:35:11 GMT
The only interactions on the Normandy (save for the two confrontations) are the "welcome aboard" dialogues, which were limited to Miranda and Jacob. That's still, like, 15 more than ME1 had on the Normandy. I wanted elevator rides with Jack and Miranda. Banter like the one between the characters in ME1 on elevators. There may not be a biotic inhibitor strong enough to save me from that, but I'd like to see it, nonetheless.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 25, 2020 22:51:11 GMT
The only interactions on the Normandy (save for the two confrontations) are the "welcome aboard" dialogues, which were limited to Miranda and Jacob. That's still, like, 15 more than ME1 had on the Normandy. I wanted elevator rides with Jack and Miranda. Banter like the one between the characters in ME1 on elevators. There may not be a biotic inhibitor strong enough to save me from that, but I'd like to see it, nonetheless. I’m pretty sure elevator rides were one of those casualties of negative feedback, which I’m sure is why they added that little joke banter between Garrus and Tali if you walk around the Citadel.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 25, 2020 22:52:04 GMT
I’m pretty sure elevator rides were one of those casualties of negative feedback, which I’m sure is why they added that little joke banter between Garrus and Tali if you walk around the Citadel. I know.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,864 Likes: 3,472
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Sept 26, 2020 1:08:50 GMT
That's still, like, 15 more than ME1 had on the Normandy. I wanted elevator rides with Jack and Miranda. Banter like the one between the characters in ME1 on elevators. There may not be a biotic inhibitor strong enough to save me from that, but I'd like to see it, nonetheless. I’m pretty sure elevator rides were one of those casualties of negative feedback, which I’m sure is why they added that little joke banter between Garrus and Tali if you walk around the Citadel. An area where Bioware consistently screws up. They get negative feedback and cut the content without ever understanding the feedback. People were never upset elevators existed or that there was banter on them. It was the ridiculous loading times become more apparent in the elevator that takes 5 minutes to go down one level.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,864 Likes: 3,472
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Sept 26, 2020 1:10:09 GMT
I think most people agree. ME2 is a weird one in that its the most well received ME2 even though it has some serious story flaws. It was just executed really well. Doesn't it have to HAVE a story in order to have story flaws? I mean, it had great characters, who had FA to do aside from their personal mission. They almost never even acknowledged each other's presence! the story was poorly done seven samurai.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 26, 2020 6:59:49 GMT
I think most people agree. ME2 is a weird one in that its the most well received ME2 even though it has some serious story flaws. It was just executed really well. Doesn't it have to HAVE a story in order to have story flaws? I mean, it had great characters, who had FA to do aside from their personal mission. They almost never even acknowledged each other's presence! I think this is where the game ultimately starts to lose its luster for me on subsequent playthroughs. With the exception of some characters like Mordin and Legion, who actually have real story relevance (other than the built-in Cerberus lot) just don't feel like any of the followers are particularly motivated for much of anything. Like, I'm never really given a reason to get Jack, because there's no clear purpose for her character that I would be planning to put to use beyond "Powerful Biotic go Boom", but I'm sure I could scrounge up some asari commandos to do that without having to make deals with a prison barge. Why am I getting a desert iguana man with super space asthma? Heck if I know, but he calls me Siha, so that's cool.
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Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 26, 2020 8:17:06 GMT
Doesn't it have to HAVE a story in order to have story flaws? I mean, it had great characters, who had FA to do aside from their personal mission. They almost never even acknowledged each other's presence!I think this is where the game ultimately starts to lose its luster for me on subsequent playthroughs. In ME3 they started fixing this a bit, and got into good area with DAI and MEA for me. I didnt do most of the companion missions last time in ME2, I didnt finish the game either because I remembered what was there in the end. Game feels rushed today and all the flaws and removal of things setup in 1 just makes me feel bad.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 26, 2020 18:32:05 GMT
I think this is where the game ultimately starts to lose its luster for me on subsequent playthroughs. In ME3 they started fixing this a bit, and got into good area with DAI and MEA for me. I didnt do most of the companion missions last time in ME2, I didnt finish the game either because I remembered what was there in the end. Game feels rushed today and all the flaws and removal of things setup in 1 just makes me feel bad. As a habitual completionist I ultimately find myself just succumbing to my urges and doing everything anyway. I even found all the stupid medals and whatnot in ME1 in subsequent playthroughs, for reasons. This is why full renegade plays are a nice escape. It allows me to enjoy a refreshingly cool tall glass of negligence.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,864 Likes: 3,472
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ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Sept 26, 2020 19:38:17 GMT
In ME3 they started fixing this a bit, and got into good area with DAI and MEA for me. I didnt do most of the companion missions last time in ME2, I didnt finish the game either because I remembered what was there in the end. Game feels rushed today and all the flaws and removal of things setup in 1 just makes me feel bad. As a habitual completionist I ultimately find myself just succumbing to my urges and doing everything anyway. I even found all the stupid medals and whatnot in ME1 in subsequent playthroughs, for reasons. This is why full renegade plays are a nice escape. It allows me to enjoy a refreshingly cool tall glass of negligence. Its an addiction for me, I know its pointless and yet I track all the stuff down. I know MEA is a better game if I ignore 1/2 that crap, and yet I do every one I find. And then drive around randomly if in a different play through one that randomly popped up before hasn't yet.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 26, 2020 21:33:42 GMT
In ME3 they started fixing this a bit, and got into good area with DAI and MEA for me. I didnt do most of the companion missions last time in ME2, I didnt finish the game either because I remembered what was there in the end. Game feels rushed today and all the flaws and removal of things setup in 1 just makes me feel bad. As a habitual completionist I ultimately find myself just succumbing to my urges and doing everything anyway. I even found all the stupid medals and whatnot in ME1 in subsequent playthroughs, for reasons. This is why full renegade plays are a nice escape. It allows me to enjoy a refreshingly cool tall glass of negligence. Don't have to be renegade though being renegade I find to be better than paragon. Another way to avoid doing the completionist stuff is do a speedrun. I do it from time to time when playing the trilogy. It mixes things up. Speedruns is the number 1 thing I liked about MEA.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 26, 2020 21:55:21 GMT
As a habitual completionist I ultimately find myself just succumbing to my urges and doing everything anyway. I even found all the stupid medals and whatnot in ME1 in subsequent playthroughs, for reasons. This is why full renegade plays are a nice escape. It allows me to enjoy a refreshingly cool tall glass of negligence. Don't have to be renegade though being renegade I find to be better than paragon. Another way to avoid doing the completionist stuff is do a speedrun. I do it from time to time when playing the trilogy. It mixes things up. Speedruns is the number 1 thing I liked about MEA.
I don't commit entirely to either end of that morality spectrum. Full paragon's mostly a bit of a snooze, renegade's a tryhard jerkass that can sometimes feel like dumb-evil, and I find neither particularly fulfilling if I'm actually trying to take the story and characters seriously. A full renegade run is essentially my speedrun, since if I'm going to just skip a lot of stuff, might as well just be a jerk and get as many people killed as possible. Heck, my renegade Sheploo dies on the Collector base, which I think is a fitting end. Dragon Age: Origins did this much better though. It wasn't constrained by the renegade/paragon dialogue check system, most notably ME2's system that can actively punish you for trying to make a more rounded off character. Man, I miss being able to put points in character stats like charisma or coercion.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,940 Likes: 17,667
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 27, 2020 1:23:24 GMT
It wasn't constrained by the renegade/paragon dialogue check system, most notably ME2's system that can actively punish you for trying to make a more rounded off character. Man, I miss being able to put points in character stats like charisma or coercion. How to keep the loyalty of Jack, Miranda, Tali and Legion was annoying AF.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 27, 2020 2:02:36 GMT
It wasn't constrained by the renegade/paragon dialogue check system, most notably ME2's system that can actively punish you for trying to make a more rounded off character. Man, I miss being able to put points in character stats like charisma or coercion. How to keep the loyalty of Jack, Miranda, Tali and Legion was annoying AF. Yeah, it was ME2 that got me to start hating that whole system. I initially had no trouble in the beginning because I leaned heavily on paragon, only hitting the occasional renegade interrupt when it suited me, but I decided to just be a bit more blunt with some NPC’s, though avoiding the extra violence, and I was surprised how unforgiving it was if you got to the Jack/Miranda conflict too early. I was like...what the hell, all this stuff you do for them and it can be meaningless just because the blue and red bars are too close together. Regardless of what anyone might say of Andromeda, but I just do not miss this system at all and hope it stays gone, and I was glad that game didn’t have it.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,940 Likes: 17,667
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 27, 2020 2:34:35 GMT
How to keep the loyalty of Jack, Miranda, Tali and Legion was annoying AF. Yeah, it was ME2 that got me to start hating that whole system. I initially had no trouble in the beginning because I leaned heavily on paragon, only hitting the occasional renegade interrupt when it suited me, but I decided to just be a bit more blunt with some NPC’s, though avoiding the extra violence, and I was surprised how unforgiving it was if you got to the Jack/Miranda conflict too early. I was like...what the hell, all this stuff you do for them and it can be meaningless just because the blue and red bars are too close together. Regardless of what anyone might say of Andromeda, but I just do not miss this system at all and hope it stays gone, and I was glad that game didn’t have it. That part I don't like. I do like the parts where I can punch reporters, stab enemy mechanics in the back and shove mercs (they'll basically all evil) out the window. Maybe it doesn't need to line up so much with things like how to break up an argument but I don't want it gone entirely.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 27, 2020 2:37:34 GMT
Yeah, it was ME2 that got me to start hating that whole system. I initially had no trouble in the beginning because I leaned heavily on paragon, only hitting the occasional renegade interrupt when it suited me, but I decided to just be a bit more blunt with some NPC’s, though avoiding the extra violence, and I was surprised how unforgiving it was if you got to the Jack/Miranda conflict too early. I was like...what the hell, all this stuff you do for them and it can be meaningless just because the blue and red bars are too close together. Regardless of what anyone might say of Andromeda, but I just do not miss this system at all and hope it stays gone, and I was glad that game didn’t have it. That part I don't like. I do like the parts where I can punch reporters, stab enemy mechanics in the back and shove mercs (they'll basically all evil) out the window. Maybe it doesn't need to line up so much with things like how to break up an argument but I don't want it gone entirely. Thing is, the interrupt system itself has been demonstrated to be able to operate independently of any morality meters. Personally, I think coercion or charisma stats are just a superior system and allows us more control over our character.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 7, 2020 14:02:39 GMT
I think most people agree. ME2 is a weird one in that its the most well received ME2 even though it has some serious story flaws. It was just executed really well. Doesn't it have to HAVE a story in order to have story flaws? I mean, it had great characters, who had FA to do aside from their personal mission. They almost never even acknowledged each other's presence! The way I look at Mass Effect 2 is that its an anthology of short stories with the background thread of The Collectors running through them. To me the game centered on the companions and everything else was a secondary aspect. The other thing is for me Mass Effect 2 also acknowledged your romance option more then any other BioWare game for after you have completed the arc you could invite them up to your cabin which is a really low bar to overcome and they never have. I think how the different aspect of romances in Mass Effect 2 shows a lot of the issues I have with the story in recent BioWare games where that content feels more connected to the players and their choices. I still remember having a conversation with Mordin about Miranda and where she could be placing a bug or his other comments about the people you are choosing to romance. Where like you mentioned in other aspects of the game the companions barely interact with one another.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 7, 2020 21:56:52 GMT
Doesn't it have to HAVE a story in order to have story flaws? I mean, it had great characters, who had FA to do aside from their personal mission. They almost never even acknowledged each other's presence! The way I look at Mass Effect 2 is that its an anthology of short stories with the background thread of The Collectors running through them. To me the game centered on the companions and everything else was a secondary aspect. The other thing is for me Mass Effect 2 also acknowledged your romance option more then any other BioWare game for after you have completed the arc you could invite them up to your cabin which is a really low bar to overcome and they never have. I think how the different aspect of romances in Mass Effect 2 shows a lot of the issues I have with the story in recent BioWare games where that content feels more connected to the players and their choices. I still remember having a conversation with Mordin about Miranda and where she could be placing a bug or his other comments about the people you are choosing to romance. Where like you mentioned in other aspects of the game the companions barely interact with one another. I feel like DA still did acknowledgement better, mainly because there was a lot more dialogue around these options, and party banter also acknowledged your choice when the LI was actually in the party, Inquisition rather extensively if you’re lucky enough for it to kick in more frequently.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,875 Likes: 49,330
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Post by Iakus on Oct 8, 2020 15:32:48 GMT
Doesn't it have to HAVE a story in order to have story flaws? I mean, it had great characters, who had FA to do aside from their personal mission. They almost never even acknowledged each other's presence! The way I look at Mass Effect 2 is that its an anthology of short stories with the background thread of The Collectors running through them. To me the game centered on the companions and everything else was a secondary aspect. The other thing is for me Mass Effect 2 also acknowledged your romance option more then any other BioWare game for after you have completed the arc you could invite them up to your cabin which is a really low bar to overcome and they never have. I think how the different aspect of romances in Mass Effect 2 shows a lot of the issues I have with the story in recent BioWare games where that content feels more connected to the players and their choices. I still remember having a conversation with Mordin about Miranda and where she could be placing a bug or his other comments about the people you are choosing to romance. Where like you mentioned in other aspects of the game the companions barely interact with one another. Tell that to anyone who romanced Ashley or Kaidan. And you had to buy DLC for Liara. ME2 was less a second entry into a trilogy and more a standalone expansion pack. Or rather, a dlc bundle.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,899 Likes: 8,927
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 8, 2020 15:52:57 GMT
The way I look at Mass Effect 2 is that its an anthology of short stories with the background thread of The Collectors running through them. To me the game centered on the companions and everything else was a secondary aspect. The other thing is for me Mass Effect 2 also acknowledged your romance option more then any other BioWare game for after you have completed the arc you could invite them up to your cabin which is a really low bar to overcome and they never have. I think how the different aspect of romances in Mass Effect 2 shows a lot of the issues I have with the story in recent BioWare games where that content feels more connected to the players and their choices. I still remember having a conversation with Mordin about Miranda and where she could be placing a bug or his other comments about the people you are choosing to romance. Where like you mentioned in other aspects of the game the companions barely interact with one another. Tell that to anyone who romanced Ashley or Kaidan. And you had to buy DLC for Liara. ME2 was less a second entry into a trilogy and more a standalone expansion pack. Or rather, a dlc bundle. I am not talking about the romances from the prior games, just that when dealing with the romance options as presented in Mass Effect 2 I found they were done better.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Oct 11, 2020 12:40:57 GMT
That part I don't like. I do like the parts where I can punch reporters, stab enemy mechanics in the back and shove mercs (they'll basically all evil) out the window. Maybe it doesn't need to line up so much with things like how to break up an argument but I don't want it gone entirely. Thing is, the interrupt system itself has been demonstrated to be able to operate independently of any morality meters. Personally, I think coercion or charisma stats are just a superior system and allows us more control over our character. I liked the way ME1 did it. You could just fill a bar with points and then are able to talk through all the talking points. I would like something Like DA2 where your choices can influence dialouge in terms of whether you are sarcastic and such. However as someone who almost always plays paragon I really don't like the idea of not being able to see interactions because of that. For example in all my play throughs I never got to see the renegade response to tali and legions fight.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 15:31:33 GMT
Thing is, the interrupt system itself has been demonstrated to be able to operate independently of any morality meters. Personally, I think coercion or charisma stats are just a superior system and allows us more control over our character. I liked the way ME1 did it. You could just fill a bar with points and then are able to talk through all the talking points. I would like something Like DA2 where your choices can influence dialouge in terms of whether you are sarcastic and such. However as someone who almost always plays paragon I really don't like the idea of not being able to see interactions because of that. For example in all my play throughs I never got to see the renegade response to tali and legions fight. ME1’s was definitely better overall in the trilogy, but I still felt a bit constrained by that paragon and renegade system, since the bars dictated how many points you could invest in charm and intimidate throughout the game. I would have been much more satisfied if dialogue was totally up to us, not held back by the throwback dark and light side meter. I’d even go so far as to prefer a system where I can sacrifice stats that boost combat prowess just so I can prioritize being able to unlock more dialogue. ME2’s implementation of dialogue gets more and more unsatisfying with each revisit, and I’m glad we’ll never go back to that. As for DA2, I did like that some choices are specifically tied to choices made prior, or something investigated before you got to the next instance. Andromeda did have something like that, but very sparingly. I can’t recall off the top of my head where it happens other than having an extra dialogue option on Habitat 7 if you choose to investigate the Kett base prior to getting to that tower, but it’s there. I do enjoy the interrupt system because it can make for some entertaining interruptions that we can actively participate in. The nice thing about it is that with the way Mass Effect Andromeda presented it, these things can exist independent of any dialogue check system and still let you know exactly what’s going to happen, unlike the way it was implemented in the trilogy. They’re just there to be entertaining QTE instances that shake up interactions.
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