Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 29, 2019 17:34:50 GMT
There has been a lot of recent righteous hand wringing about abusive crunch time from major AAA developers like BioWare, Epic Games, Activision, EA, and the rest of the usual suspects and none of the gaming pundits and journalists have given some vague that gaming devs, coders, programmers, animators, and etc. should unionize and while I fully 100% support that but that is something that the people working inside the gaming industry would have to do and the only solution seems to be buy indie games and boycott the AAA guys neither of which would generate positive help from my end.
First most indie games that I have seen don't appeal to me and some indie devs are just as bad as AAA guys not for crunch but being bigots and censor critics who dare *gasp* criticize their work.
Second: boycott would only work if the fandom actually boycott a game and honestly I don't see that happening anytime and even IF a boycott of the next BioWare game (for example) was done and successful all that would do would most likely have EA close BioWare down and then put all those low level people out of work.
So what can I or we do to help stop abusive crunch in positive way, without harassing people on social media, because I really don't know what to do help.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 29, 2019 17:53:43 GMT
Pray?
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sjsharp2010
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 29, 2019 18:12:01 GMT
This is moe ra question for the employee unions I think rather than whqat ew can do as consumers because all we can do as consumers is decide whether the product they haqve made is worth purchasing or not. If it is buy it if it isn't leave it.
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LogicGunn
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
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Post by LogicGunn on Apr 29, 2019 18:17:35 GMT
It's a good question.
The thing most likely to trigger change in large companies is money. Crunch time exists partly because profit is so important. The problem with any boycott is getting people to agree en masse both the boycott and the message, and communicating with the devs the reason. An actual boycott is untenable with the sheer volume of gamers, but with a large enough group of people, something like a Pre-order boycott could have an impact provided the message was loud and clear.
Similarly, the collective voice of youtube gaming gurus could have an impact, but IMHO they rarely do anything other than upload bitchfests, I'd say it's even less likely they'll do something constructive with their collective platform.
Really, the most impactful thing would be from within the industry, not without.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 29, 2019 18:29:31 GMT
Honestly, I don't think it is really up to the gamers to bail devs out of this one. This has to happen on the level of the industry itself, they need proper unions, reliable legal representation and other things that need to be organized by them. One problem from our side is that it is really difficult to determine where the truth really lies in terms of what actually happens behind the scenes. For every report of people saying the conditions are intolerable, there is another saying it's not that bad. Where is the actual balance then? It's tough for us to know.
The one thing, that I'd say we as gamers should really do is to learn some patience, especially when it comes to updates. The recent story about the Fortnite team at Epic seems to indicate that GaaS titles especially mean crazy crunch for prolonged periods of time. It certainly doesn't help if gamers go crazy on reddit, twitter, etc. whenever a patch/update is delayed by a couple of days. Unfortunately, knowing the internet, preaching sanity, patience and a modicum of understanding to online communities is completely useless.
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Post by CHRrOME on May 1, 2019 20:12:52 GMT
That's their problem not ours. I'm not gonna advocate for better working conditions for them, I have my own stuff to deal with and they sure as fuck don't give a damn. And I have it rougher than they do guaranteed, I'll tell you that much. We should do nothing, because it's not on us.
Why people all of a sudden think they should feel bad and "do something about" the crunch time or abuse or bullying in the gaming industry? Because some """"gaming journalist"""" made a side article of an already existing article about current working conditions and they act like we should do something about it. For fuck sake, don't people have more urgent things to care about in their own lives?
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on May 2, 2019 14:34:37 GMT
I am going to echo that it is beyond us, but if we want to do something its not boycotting EA, Activision, or Epic its boycotting them all and show them its not just the publishers and developers we have problems with its even the ones we like. When Andromeda was released there were employees from CDPR making jokes about how they were in crunch before Andromeda's crunch started and my guess they probably never left crunch mode. The problem is people will excuse that behavior because they believe CDPR is the "good guy" or other publishers that make games they claim to like. I remember a lot of people going to defend Rockstar when it was reported about the several 100 hour weeks management was boasting about doing. When they allowed people to post to social media people believed that it was the honest truth what they were getting and not talking about how employees might not be posting due to being concerned about their jobs like they do about anything positive reported about EA.
In reality its going to take developers to make the choices to not accept crunch, but at the same time crunch has been an ingrained into game development since the very beginning for there was crunch even for Jade Empire so it won't be quick or easy to change. I wouldn't lean too heavily into unions either, companies have been finding ways around unions and laws and there is a public dislike for unions which has allowed the idea of "right to work" legislation to start to popup especially in areas where people feel wronged by unions.
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Post by river82 on May 4, 2019 9:01:09 GMT
I plan to do absolutely nothing. Let developers fix their own industry. whether it's through unionisation or whatever else. Maybe if gaming journalists and developers weren't so busy wringing their hands about gamers or "nasty youtubers" they'd have done more (and raised more awareness) around the abysmal, emotionally damaging conditions they're expected to work in. We've known about this for many years now, that people were being worked till they were mentally ill, but "toxic gamers (defined as anybody who doesn't kiss developers arseholes once a day and twice on Sunday) are the enemies, we must all concentrate on that"
Not like I could do much anyway but I'm especially not lifting a finger to help an industry and/or media who look upon people like me with disdain.
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Post by river82 on May 4, 2019 9:07:28 GMT
I love the incompetence of most gaming journalists by the way. They say to gamers "we have seen the other side of the coin and it's horrible", yeah, good job bringing those conditions to light, cause that wasn't in the public interest AT ALL.
Useless.
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mmoblitz
N3
USN-Retired
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Post by mmoblitz on May 5, 2019 10:38:14 GMT
I don't like unions personally as they come with their own set of problems. As far was the OP question, I have no idea, but unions will only bring in problems in the long run.
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Post by Upggrade on May 5, 2019 13:40:04 GMT
That's their problem not ours. I'm not gonna advocate for better working conditions for them, I have my own stuff to deal with and they sure as fuck don't give a damn. And I have it rougher than they do guaranteed, I'll tell you that much. We should do nothing, because it's not on us. Why people all of a sudden think they should feel bad and "do something about" the crunch time or abuse or bullying in the gaming industry? Because some """"gaming journalist"""" made a side article of an already existing article about current working conditions and they act like we should do something about it. For fuck sake, don't people have more urgent things to care about in their own lives? Agreed, I care about the end product, that's it. If they don't like their working conditions they can go somewhere else.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 8, 2019 11:15:17 GMT
Is easy: Make the World a better place and job well done.
No need to thank me - this advice is free.
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