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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 29, 2019 19:46:10 GMT
We may have the next mass effect game NOT be on frostbite! Apperantly the new star wars game that is coming out is going to be on unreal engine 4 (I think it is four) Instead of frostbite. The company that made it is owned by EA just like bioware is and managed to convince EA not to use the dreaded frostbite engine. So perhaps the next star wars game gives us "new hope" for not getting another mass effect made by the frostbite engine.
I just had to fit in a star wars pun in there even though it was painfully crammed in.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 29, 2019 19:51:49 GMT
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 29, 2019 19:59:43 GMT
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 29, 2019 20:10:05 GMT
Well, I have a few comments: 1. Why Respawn is allowed to use other engines while BioWare "is not" is actually a good question. Speculation is that Respawn already had the gameplay prototypes working (possibly with another story on top) before they got acquired by EA in 2017 and therefore were allowed to finish the project in that engine. Another possibility has some special place within EA. Titanfall 2 and Apex Legends also do not use Frostbite. Either with those titles as well, they were started before the EA acquisition or they can do it for some other reason. 2. Getting DA/ME/Anthem to work with Frostbite was a hugely painful process, especailly because they always pretty much started from scratch (see the Kotaku articles). However, now that they have gameplay loops working, one might question if it is better to abandon frostbite now and start from scratch yet again in another engine or to keep it at this point. Obviously that would depend on the exact contents of a new game. Personally, I wouldn't mind a new Mass Effect that basically uses a very similar gameplay foundation as Andromeda and where the development focuses on getting the details, characters and story right. 3. One person who pushed Frostbite company wide for EA was Soederlund, who is no longer with EA. Therefore, the Frostbite mantra might change in general. Then the question remains as to what the higher-ups at BW itself may decide.
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Post by kumazan on Apr 30, 2019 8:30:52 GMT
Well, I have a few comments: 1. Why Respawn is allowed to use other engines while BioWare "is not" is actually a good question. Speculation is that Respawn already had the gameplay prototypes working (possibly with another story on top) before they got acquired by EA in 2017 and therefore were allowed to finish the project in that engine. Another possibility has some special place within EA. Titanfall 2 and Apex Legends also do not use Frostbite. Either with those titles as well, they were started before the EA acquisition or they can do it for some other reason. 2. Getting DA/ME/Anthem to work with Frostbite was a hugely painful process, especailly because they always pretty much started from scratch (see the Kotaku articles). However, now that they have gameplay loops working, one might question if it is better to abandon frostbite now and start from scratch yet again in another engine or to keep it at this point. Obviously that would depend on the exact contents of a new game. Personally, I wouldn't mind a new Mass Effect that basically uses a very similar gameplay foundation as Andromeda and where the development focuses on getting the details, characters and story right. 3. One person who pushed Frostbite company wide for EA was Soederlund, who is no longer with EA. Therefore, the Frostbite mantra might change in general. Then the question remains as to what the higher-ups at BW itself may decide. IIRC, it was mentioned in one of Schreier's recent articles about BioWare that it was Aaryn Flynn's choice to move to Frostbite, knowing that they'd have to, eventually. I suppose Respawn will have to follow suit at some point, though of course as you say with Söderlund's departure that might no longer be the case. Now, as for BW moving away from Frostbite, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 30, 2019 9:01:13 GMT
Well, I have a few comments: 1. Why Respawn is allowed to use other engines while BioWare "is not" is actually a good question. Speculation is that Respawn already had the gameplay prototypes working (possibly with another story on top) before they got acquired by EA in 2017 and therefore were allowed to finish the project in that engine. Another possibility has some special place within EA. Titanfall 2 and Apex Legends also do not use Frostbite. Either with those titles as well, they were started before the EA acquisition or they can do it for some other reason. 2. Getting DA/ME/Anthem to work with Frostbite was a hugely painful process, especailly because they always pretty much started from scratch (see the Kotaku articles). However, now that they have gameplay loops working, one might question if it is better to abandon frostbite now and start from scratch yet again in another engine or to keep it at this point. Obviously that would depend on the exact contents of a new game. Personally, I wouldn't mind a new Mass Effect that basically uses a very similar gameplay foundation as Andromeda and where the development focuses on getting the details, characters and story right. 3. One person who pushed Frostbite company wide for EA was Soederlund, who is no longer with EA. Therefore, the Frostbite mantra might change in general. Then the question remains as to what the higher-ups at BW itself may decide. EA holds SW licence, not Respawn. Respawn would have only begun working on SW if mandated by EA. And at that time Söderlund, Mr Frostbite, was still at EA. Respawn having Apex Legends already prototyped makes more sense with that argument, but SW game not so much.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 30, 2019 10:45:46 GMT
Are there still people who honestly believe there will be another Mass Effect after Anthem has Bioware teetering on the edge of being disbanded and absorbed into other EA studios like Montreal?
Bioware went from throwing everything they got at Anthem to save themselves to now throwing everyone at DA4 and praying for success once again. I'm not even convinced DA4 will be released if they can't sort out their management issues and EA notices. If I were EA and DA4's development seemed even remotely like a repeat of the aimless development of their previous 2 games, I'd shut them down at last, mid-development. EA has done this before too with that other Star Wars game. Bioware imo is in no position to think about another MAss Effect game.
Another engine won't save them if DA4, which WILL be developed with Frostbite, isn't a smashing hit. Bioware seems too proud to abandon Frostbite and admit they can't get a handle on it anyway. They were too proud to ask Austin for help when Anthem was on fire.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 30, 2019 13:21:42 GMT
The company that made it is owned by EA just like bioware is and managed to convince EA not to use the dreaded frostbite engine From what I heard, development on Fallen Order had started before the EA acquisition. As in Respawn had gone to EA/Disney with the pitch, they green lit it and production began on it, so they didn't have access to Frostbyte, or were not mandated, yet. Respawn's next game, may or may not be made in Frostbyte, depending on how well Fallen Order performs and what Respawn intends to do. If I were EA and DA4's development seemed even remotely like a repeat of the aimless development of their previous 2 games, I'd shut them down at last, mid-development I got the impression that, when Soderlund visited Bioware for Anthem the second time, if the game wasn't to his satisfaction, he would have cancelled it then and there and I don't even want to know where Bioware would be today. Since the DA4 reboot from Joplin to Morrison, Bioware got an extension to DA4's development. So DA4 got another 4 years of development for it, since the reboot, but they will still have to impress, uh, who replaced Sonderlund? Blake Jorgensen? Anyway, him. They will still have to impress him with their game. I don't know how they'll do it. They'll need to pull off some "Last Of Us" type of shit to impress EA's people. If they even care about that. Maybe they need to make a nice looking MTX store, instead. With lots of bling.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 30, 2019 14:11:24 GMT
[t EA holds SW licence, not Respawn. Respawn would have only begun working on SW if mandated by EA. And at that time Söderlund, Mr Frostbite, was still at EA. Respawn having Apex Legends already prototyped makes more sense with that argument, but SW game not so much. As I wrote, the speculation was that Respawn had prototypes for a melee focused action adventure in UE4 ready when they joined EA, which was then converted into a SW game. But of course, it's all speculation.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 30, 2019 19:29:17 GMT
Actually, I think that this part would actually be good news if it applied to future BioWare projects. Despite my affection for Inquisition and Andromeda, I think Frostbite itself did Bio no favors at all. I'd much rather they have an engine they'd have an easier time using. Heck I'd sacrifice some environmental details just to get a smooth-running Bio game so long as it gives me enough content to keep me busy for a while. That being said, I don't really see it happening, and BioWare is clearly in deep with this engine.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 30, 2019 19:43:50 GMT
We may have the next mass effect game NOT be on frostbite! Apperantly the new star wars game that is coming out is going to be on unreal engine 4 (I think it is four) Instead of frostbite. The company that made it is owned by EA just like bioware is and managed to convince EA not to use the dreaded frostbite engine. So perhaps the next star wars game gives us "new hope" for not getting another mass effect made by the frostbite engine.
I just had to fit in a star wars pun in there even though it was painfully crammed in.
That's one. I just really hope that they don't screw up this time.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 30, 2019 23:38:12 GMT
I see no one here is a futurama fan. I named the title after the proffesor's line "good new everyone"!
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 30, 2019 23:43:45 GMT
I see no one here is a futurama fan. I named the title after the proffesor's line "good new everyone"! Yes, professor Farnsworth. I actually read the title in his voice.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 30, 2019 23:46:39 GMT
I see no one here is a futurama fan. I named the title after the proffesor's line "good new everyone"! Yes, professor Farnsworth. I actually read the title in his voice. AWESOME! When I came back here and saw that post I had forgotten about it and read it the same way.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on May 1, 2019 5:03:56 GMT
Since BioWare has switched voluntarily to Frostbite I don't see them going back and experiencing all the problems they have in the past again for I would bet that they would have the exact same problems adapting any game engine to what they need. This is a BioWare problem and not an EA problem, if Frostbite was the nightmare people claim it is I would expect more then just BioWare made games to be having the same level of problems with it.
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Post by river82 on May 1, 2019 7:38:29 GMT
Since BioWare has switched voluntarily to Frostbite I don't see them going back and experiencing all the problems they have in the past again for I would bet that they would have the exact same problems adapting any game engine to what they need. This is a BioWare problem and not an EA problem, if Frostbite was the nightmare people claim it is I would expect more then just BioWare made games to be having the same level of problems with it. "It was missing a lot of tools, a lot of stuff that was in Uncharted 1 ... It was going to be a year, or a year and a half’s work just to get the engine to do things that are assumed and taken for granted."
But what that meant is we obviously had to take the Frostbite Engine, because there was the internal initiative to make sure that everybody was on the same technology, but it was an engine that was made to do first-person shooters not third-person traversal cinematic games," Hennig said.
"So building all of that third-person platforming and climbing and cover taking and all that stuff into an engine that wasn't made to do that. We did a lot of foundational work that I think the teams are still benefiting from because it's a shared engine, but it's tough when you spend a lot of time doing foundational stuff but then don't get to go ta-da! [laughs] You know, here's the game."
The veteran producer lamented the game's cancellation, as it was "a lot farther along than people ever got a glimpse of". "And it was good, you know? But it just didn't make sense in EA's business plan, ultimately."
Amy Hennig - www.kotaku.com.au/2019/02/amy-hennig-talks-more-about-struggling-with-eas-frostbite-engine/
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on May 1, 2019 13:45:08 GMT
Since BioWare has switched voluntarily to Frostbite I don't see them going back and experiencing all the problems they have in the past again for I would bet that they would have the exact same problems adapting any game engine to what they need. This is a BioWare problem and not an EA problem, if Frostbite was the nightmare people claim it is I would expect more then just BioWare made games to be having the same level of problems with it. "It was missing a lot of tools, a lot of stuff that was in Uncharted 1 ... It was going to be a year, or a year and a half’s work just to get the engine to do things that are assumed and taken for granted."
But what that meant is we obviously had to take the Frostbite Engine, because there was the internal initiative to make sure that everybody was on the same technology, but it was an engine that was made to do first-person shooters not third-person traversal cinematic games," Hennig said.
"So building all of that third-person platforming and climbing and cover taking and all that stuff into an engine that wasn't made to do that. We did a lot of foundational work that I think the teams are still benefiting from because it's a shared engine, but it's tough when you spend a lot of time doing foundational stuff but then don't get to go ta-da! [laughs] You know, here's the game."
The veteran producer lamented the game's cancellation, as it was "a lot farther along than people ever got a glimpse of". "And it was good, you know? But it just didn't make sense in EA's business plan, ultimately."
Amy Hennig - www.kotaku.com.au/2019/02/amy-hennig-talks-more-about-struggling-with-eas-frostbite-engine/ Which is pretty close to what I am trying to say. Developers are having to build their own tools for the engine, but in the end the engine is doing what they want it to do. Do you think that BioWare wouldn't have to make their own tools for another game engine? At least they can share what the other studios under EA are doing for the tools that aren't exclusive to them.
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Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on May 1, 2019 14:52:42 GMT
We may have the next mass effect game NOT be on frostbite! Apperantly the new star wars game that is coming out is going to be on unreal engine 4 (I think it is four) Instead of frostbite. The company that made it is owned by EA just like bioware is and managed to convince EA not to use the dreaded frostbite engine. So perhaps the next star wars game gives us "new hope" for not getting another mass effect made by the frostbite engine.
I just had to fit in a star wars pun in there even though it was painfully crammed in.
I think that was a major problem for MEA. It got off the ground poorly with graphics, the team tried to do one thing, failed, scrapped it and came up with something else. People got pissed and didn't buy the game. Lots of anti-MEA videos and negative reviews unfortunately work against other people buying it. Scrapping DLC didn't hurt.
Unreal worked great on the entire MET. ME2 was churned out in 3 years and ME3 in 2 years. MEA got 5 years. That's telling.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on May 1, 2019 20:49:46 GMT
We may have the next mass effect game NOT be on frostbite! Apperantly the new star wars game that is coming out is going to be on unreal engine 4 (I think it is four) Instead of frostbite. The company that made it is owned by EA just like bioware is and managed to convince EA not to use the dreaded frostbite engine. So perhaps the next star wars game gives us "new hope" for not getting another mass effect made by the frostbite engine.
I just had to fit in a star wars pun in there even though it was painfully crammed in.
I think that was a major problem for MEA. It got off the ground poorly with graphics, the team tried to do one thing, failed, scrapped it and came up with something else. People got pissed and didn't buy the game. Lots of anti-MEA videos and negative reviews unfortunately work against other people buying it. Scrapping DLC didn't hurt.
Unreal worked great on the entire MET. ME2 was churned out in 3 years and ME3 in 2 years. MEA got 5 years. That's telling.
I remember a lot of "This looks like a PS1 game" and other graphical complaints against BioWare with Mass Effect 2 and 3. They were going to transition to a new engine with Inquisition and beyond. Nothing I have seen proves that BioWare wouldn't have had tool creation issues with using a different engine for instead of growing gradually like they did with Mass Effect they would have jumped straight into too much on a new engine like they did with Andromeda. They just might have been different problems they would have encountered.
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N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 1, 2019 21:59:16 GMT
I think that was a major problem for MEA. It got off the ground poorly with graphics, the team tried to do one thing, failed, scrapped it and came up with something else. People got pissed and didn't buy the game. Lots of anti-MEA videos and negative reviews unfortunately work against other people buying it. Scrapping DLC didn't hurt.
Unreal worked great on the entire MET. ME2 was churned out in 3 years and ME3 in 2 years. MEA got 5 years. That's telling.
I remember a lot of "This looks like a PS1 game" and other graphical complaints against BioWare with Mass Effect 2 and 3. They were going to transition to a new engine with Inquisition and beyond. Nothing I have seen proves that BioWare wouldn't have had tool creation issues with using a different engine for instead of growing gradually like they did with Mass Effect they would have jumped straight into too much on a new engine like they did with Andromeda. They just might have been different problems they would have encountered.
BioWare has never been known for cutting edge graphics. Sure their games look nice and even good but from KOTOR on they've focused on story, universe, character, art style and combat rather than super photo-realistic Ultra 4k HD graphics, and again that level of graphics have never been their strong suit no matter what the engine they were using Unreal, Eclipse, Frostbite, or any other gaming engine. Have any BioWare games since KOTOR won an award for their graphics if so please tell me which one. There graphics are good but none were great.
All of 3 of the Dragon Age games and ALL 3 games of the MET had their fair share of bugs and animation errors. I mean ME1 has aged horrible, and even when it was new the graphics sucked with long load times, framerate drops, and pops, that were never as bad as any of the animation errors of MEA had and they were never fixed the graphical problems in ME1, but they fix the most graphics and animation errors in MEA which IMHO looks AWESOME for over a year now and is IMHO the best overall BioWare game to date.
I think a lot of the problem is that companies like CDPR and their ilk has turned RPGs into a graphical arms race (much like the FPS genre) and BioWare struggles to keep up with them in a department that again, was never strong suit to begin with, and EA being a shit company and with the apparent problems with getting help to use and make Frostbite engine easier and better for RPGs isn't helping them or any of the other EA studios.
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Post by smilesja on May 1, 2019 22:15:48 GMT
Are there still people who honestly believe there will be another Mass Effect after Anthem has Bioware teetering on the edge of being disbanded and absorbed into other EA studios like Montreal? Wait it's on the edge on being disbanded? Link?
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N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 2, 2019 0:22:47 GMT
"It was missing a lot of tools, a lot of stuff that was in Uncharted 1 ... It was going to be a year, or a year and a half’s work just to get the engine to do things that are assumed and taken for granted."
But what that meant is we obviously had to take the Frostbite Engine, because there was the internal initiative to make sure that everybody was on the same technology, but it was an engine that was made to do first-person shooters not third-person traversal cinematic games," Hennig said.
"So building all of that third-person platforming and climbing and cover taking and all that stuff into an engine that wasn't made to do that. We did a lot of foundational work that I think the teams are still benefiting from because it's a shared engine, but it's tough when you spend a lot of time doing foundational stuff but then don't get to go ta-da! [laughs] You know, here's the game."
The veteran producer lamented the game's cancellation, as it was "a lot farther along than people ever got a glimpse of". "And it was good, you know? But it just didn't make sense in EA's business plan, ultimately."
Amy Hennig - www.kotaku.com.au/2019/02/amy-hennig-talks-more-about-struggling-with-eas-frostbite-engine/ Which is pretty close to what I am trying to say. Developers are having to build their own tools for the engine, but in the end the engine is doing what they want it to do. Do you think that BioWare wouldn't have to make their own tools for another game engine? At least they can share what the other studios under EA are doing for the tools that aren't exclusive to them. Yeah and now they've gone through the groundwork of having t obuild those tools they shouldn't need to go through that again given they now have got them set up fo rDA and ME and of course Anthem. Building a game in a nwe engine that wasn' timnitially built for it was always going t obe hard because you will always need t obuild the tools first befoer any work can begin. Now the tools are there and in place now it's moer a question of what Bioware can do now the ycan divert more attention to the game itself and the story they want to tell tha nworry about the engine the game is running on. The first initia lgames DAI MEA and Anthem were all going t obe difficult projects given the mechanics had to be built from the ground upI think they jus tgot lucky with DAI in that they somehow got everything to click there given it sold well and earned Game of the Year status. Considering I personally thought that would be the mos tdifficult of the 2 main ~IP's to transfer over I htink it shows how much effort was put into it. With MEA I think it's moer wha twent on behind the scenes that ended up hurting that game but with moer time in the oven(say another 6 months) I don't think it would have had as many issues as it came out with especially given it looks and plays pretty well now. It'salso possible based on what I've read the same could be said for Anthem in that it was mismanaged but I'm not so sure on that one. This is just my opinion though
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legbamel
N3
Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
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legbamel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
legbamel
Legbamel
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Post by legbamel on May 2, 2019 2:33:34 GMT
Are there still people who honestly believe there will be another Mass Effect after Anthem has Bioware teetering on the edge of being disbanded and absorbed into other EA studios like Montreal? Wait it's on the edge on being disbanded? Link? Is "hyperbolically" a word? If so, then yes.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on May 2, 2019 16:27:23 GMT
I see no one here is a futurama fan. I named the title after the proffesor's line "good new everyone"! Never watched an episode after the one with Fry's dog.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 2, 2019 16:33:28 GMT
I see no one here is a futurama fan. I named the title after the proffesor's line "good new everyone"! Never watched an episode after the one with Fry's dog. That was a pretty good episode.
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