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Post by Sokemis on Mar 1, 2020 21:56:03 GMT
So while going through this thread and other links, I've discovered an artist that I love her Fenris art (as well as her other art). Most/all of these have probably been posted here at one point or another, but I hope you don't mind me putting them in one thread... Link to artist's page: Smilika on Deviant Art (I especially love the one of happy Fenris just enjoying a simple moment reading)
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 14, 2020 0:25:09 GMT
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 14, 2020 5:17:06 GMT
I was pro-mage. I sided with mages because of my sister. Fenris and I had one special night. He would tell me "I'm yours". He turned around and joined Meredith. Can't choose this guy again.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 14, 2020 9:08:29 GMT
I was pro-mage. I sided with mages because of my sister. Fenris and I had one special night. He would tell me "I'm yours". He turned around and joined Meredith. Can't choose this guy again. You need 100% friendship/rivalry + his personal quest, QB to join to defend the mages immediately, or ~80% friendship (I'm not sure about rivalry) to join later, if Hawke convinces him. He needs someone who cares about him. If he doesn't trust enough, he will follow his fear.
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Post by Sokemis on Sept 14, 2020 11:49:57 GMT
Also, don't give up on the romance after he walks out in Act 2. His romance doesn't "lock in" until Act 3. Just don't sleep with/start a romance with anyone else (I think that includes sleeping with Zevran or anyone at the Rose, but not sure on that), and you can reconnect with him after killing Danarius.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 14, 2020 11:51:28 GMT
I was pro-mage. I sided with mages because of my sister. Fenris and I had one special night. He would tell me "I'm yours". He turned around and joined Meredith. Can't choose this guy again. I did that the first time I played - Hawke set Fenris on fire at the end, twas tragic 😭 Now I make sure everybody's locked into friendship/rivalry before the end of Act III
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 14, 2020 12:15:03 GMT
As others said, locking on 100% friendship/rivalry and completing Act 3 Questioning Beliefs is the safest bet to keep Fenris around even when siding with mages (that's the case with everyone when choosing the path they do not approve of). There's only small window of rivalry points (more than 50%, less than 100% iirc) were top option doesn't work, in other cases he rejoins the party. Worth noting it's the only dialogue option that'll make him rejoin, the other two make him refuse. Now I make sure everybody's locked into friendship/rivalry before the end of Act III I'm usually locked in with almost everyone by the end of Act II, quest managing ftw
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 14, 2020 16:51:38 GMT
Also, don't give up on the romance after he walks out in Act 2. His romance doesn't "lock in" until Act 3. Just don't sleep with/start a romance with anyone else (I think that includes sleeping with Zevran or anyone at the Rose, but not sure on that), and you can reconnect with him after killing Danarius. He walked out in Act 3. I did do his companion quest. Always do those things. Still turned on me, even saying he'd meet me on the battlefield.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 14, 2020 16:58:49 GMT
I was pro-mage. I sided with mages because of my sister. Fenris and I had one special night. He would tell me "I'm yours". He turned around and joined Meredith. Can't choose this guy again. I did that the first time I played - Hawke set Fenris on fire at the end, twas tragic 😭 Now I make sure everybody's locked into friendship/rivalry before the end of Act III It's funny going through without knowing how anything will turn out or what choices will make the most desirable outcome.
I played DA2 last (and first) time a few years ago. All I remember is that I fought Arishok, there was something about Isabela that related to him and that Anders started the mage rebellion. Hardly anything. I know I had no interest in Fenris at the time. Zevran, OTOH, when he showed up...
Maybe I'll give it a shot on a future PT. I do want to finish up my current PT of DAI (which I'm cutting short and heading to the final confrontation), importing the DA2 PT and playing again. Then going back to finish the DAO I have in motion (which is also better than I remember), importing to DA2 where I might try out Fenris again and then import into DAI.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 14, 2020 17:42:46 GMT
Also, don't give up on the romance after he walks out in Act 2. His romance doesn't "lock in" until Act 3. Just don't sleep with/start a romance with anyone else (I think that includes sleeping with Zevran or anyone at the Rose, but not sure on that), and you can reconnect with him after killing Danarius. He walked out in Act 3. I did do his companion quest. Always do those things. Still turned on me, even saying he'd meet me on the battlefield. For a fullfilled romance you should achieve 100% friendship/rivalry, when his QB triggers. He should trust Hawke, and hard to achieve his trust.
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 14, 2020 17:49:03 GMT
Also, don't give up on the romance after he walks out in Act 2. His romance doesn't "lock in" until Act 3. Just don't sleep with/start a romance with anyone else (I think that includes sleeping with Zevran or anyone at the Rose, but not sure on that), and you can reconnect with him after killing Danarius. He walked out in Act 3. I did do his companion quest. Always do those things. Still turned on me, even saying he'd meet me on the battlefield. His companion quest and Questioning Beliefs are two different quests. The former starts as long as you recruited him, the latter only on 100% friendship/rivalry.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 14, 2020 17:50:46 GMT
I did that the first time I played - Hawke set Fenris on fire at the end, twas tragic 😭 Now I make sure everybody's locked into friendship/rivalry before the end of Act III It's funny going through without knowing how anything will turn out or what choices will make the most desirable outcome. I played DA2 last (and first) time a few years ago. All I remember is that I fought Arishok, there was something about Isabela that related to him and that Anders started the mage rebellion. Hardly anything. I know I had no interest in Fenris at the time. Zevran, OTOH, when he showed up... Maybe I'll give it a shot on a future PT. I do want to finish up my current PT of DAI (which I'm cutting short and heading to the final confrontation), importing the DA2 PT and playing again. Then going back to finish the DAO I have in motion (which is also better than I remember), importing to DA2 where I might try out Fenris again and then import into DAI.
Have fun! You're making me want to revisit DAO (and Zevran) again. Maybe I'll whip up a dwarf prince for him. And fwiw, I think DA2 is aaaabsolutely worth playing again if you can't remember much about it. Who knowws, maybe you'll see it - and Fenris - with new eyes?
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 14, 2020 18:27:36 GMT
It's funny going through without knowing how anything will turn out or what choices will make the most desirable outcome. I played DA2 last (and first) time a few years ago. All I remember is that I fought Arishok, there was something about Isabela that related to him and that Anders started the mage rebellion. Hardly anything. I know I had no interest in Fenris at the time. Zevran, OTOH, when he showed up... Maybe I'll give it a shot on a future PT. I do want to finish up my current PT of DAI (which I'm cutting short and heading to the final confrontation), importing the DA2 PT and playing again. Then going back to finish the DAO I have in motion (which is also better than I remember), importing to DA2 where I might try out Fenris again and then import into DAI.
Have fun! You're making me want to revisit DAO (and Zevran) again. Maybe I'll whip up a dwarf prince for him. And fwiw, I think DA2 is aaaabsolutely worth playing again if you can't remember much about it. Who knowws, maybe you'll see it - and Fenris - with new eyes? I just finished a run. I meant that I remembered nothing from the first time I played a few years back. This time around I enjoyed it so much that want to play again. I admit I don't really understand the rivalry/friendship thing and that's probably what hurt my relationship with Fenris.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 14, 2020 18:30:29 GMT
He walked out in Act 3. I did do his companion quest. Always do those things. Still turned on me, even saying he'd meet me on the battlefield. For a fullfilled romance you should achieve 100% friendship/rivalry, when his QB triggers. He should trust Hawke, and hard to achieve his trust. Then I don't understand the rivarly part. I would think it would make Fenris 100% hate Hawke. Very confusing.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 14, 2020 19:26:37 GMT
For a fullfilled romance you should achieve 100% friendship/rivalry, when his QB triggers. He should trust Hawke, and hard to achieve his trust. Then I don't understand the rivarly part. I would think it would make Fenris 100% hate Hawke. Very confusing. He tries, but can't. But seriously: I found it a little better as a mage Hawke – while not rude (okay, he's ruder to Hawke). It interesting, if Hawke helps him in everything while try to convince him, not only he's who deserve freedom... also, Fenris' romance is a roller-coaster. Hawke doesn't know, why Fenris left – and as a mage, can imagine this was Fenris' reason... while, as you said as well: Fenris shows he still attracts to Hawke (loves in fact). So: rivalry is very much imaginable in their case. IF Hawke helps him, and don't keep Orana as a slave, but pays for her work.
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Post by Sokemis on Sept 14, 2020 22:47:03 GMT
Also, don't give up on the romance after he walks out in Act 2. His romance doesn't "lock in" until Act 3. Just don't sleep with/start a romance with anyone else (I think that includes sleeping with Zevran or anyone at the Rose, but not sure on that), and you can reconnect with him after killing Danarius. He walked out in Act 3. I did do his companion quest. Always do those things. Still turned on me, even saying he'd meet me on the battlefield. I meant as far as the romance goes. If you give the Fenris romance another shot, don't get discouraged when he walks out after he and Hawke sleep together in Act 2, he always does that (first time I played I thought I had screwed up the romance). If he's wearing the red wrist band afterwards, and if he is the one to comfort Hawke after Leandra dies (given that you slept with him before All That Remains), then you are probably still on the right track. If you don't sleep with/romance anyone else before the Act 3 meeting with Danarius, it's still possible to rekindle the romance and lock it in when talking to him afterwards. Then I don't understand the rivarly part. I would think it would make Fenris 100% hate Hawke. Very confusing. Stole the below from the Wiki, because it explains it as well as I can. But basically, one way you can look at 100% Rivalry is he may disagree with Hawke's views/decisions, but he still 100% respects and trusts them. "As a general rule, the way friendship and rivalry works is that friendship means agreeing with and supporting the follower in what they want to do, no matter how crazy, illogical or dangerous to self and/or others. Rivalry means opposing their big cause, often for the right reasons. So it's very possible to be a better friend to someone by choosing the rivalry path, since you're trying to stop them from giving in to their own self-destructive whims. It's not always the most intuitive, but friendship does not necessarily equal doing the "right" thing and rivalry as doing the "bad" thing. It's just as likely to be the other way around."
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 15, 2020 6:23:08 GMT
I meant as far as the romance goes. If you give the Fenris romance another shot, don't get discouraged when he walks out after he and Hawke sleep together in Act 2, he always does that (first time I played I thought I had screwed up the romance). If he's wearing the red wrist band afterwards, and if he is the one to comfort Hawke after Leandra dies (given that you slept with him before All That Remains), then you are probably still on the right track. If you don't sleep with/romance anyone else before the Act 3 meeting with Danarius, it's still possible to rekindle the romance and lock it in when talking to him afterwards. Walking out after sex wasn't the issue. In-battle when clicking on Fenris he still says "I'm yours". It's when the battle against Meredith is about to hit and Fenris switches sides that it bothers me. If he'd stuck around and watched me execute Anders (which in itself was very upsetting to me) maybe he'd have seen things differently in regard to Hawke. The reason I had to side with mages is because Bethany is one and I wasn't going to stand by and watch the Templars kill her. Fenris is an idiot if this isn't blatantly obvious. Stole the below from the Wiki, because it explains it as well as I can. But basically, one way you can look at 100% Rivalry is he may disagree with Hawke's views/decisions, but he still 100% respects and trusts them. Thanks, but it's still very weird. Does not at all mirror real life. Yes, I know it's a game but they're all essentially humans with human behavior. Sure, you could defend the rights of a person to say what they want, even if disagreeing - but that doesn't make for friendship.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 15, 2020 17:26:34 GMT
Oops, went on another art dive
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Post by Sokemis on Sept 15, 2020 21:08:05 GMT
dmc1001 Gotcha, I missed that part about him still saying "I'm yours" up until the end. I didn't realize you had continued the romance, that's my bad. Yeah, ouch, that would add an even bigger sting to his siding against you at the end. And especially since you're fighting to protect Bethany, since somewhere along the line he make a comment that seems like Bethany is one of the few mages he likes and trusts.
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 16, 2020 6:37:48 GMT
Oops, went on another art dive That last one I love not serious Fenris art. This is one of my personal favourites. Tell me purple Hawke wouldn't do that author's tumblr
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 16, 2020 18:15:28 GMT
"As a general rule, the way friendship and rivalry works is that friendship means agreeing with and supporting the follower in what they want to do, no matter how crazy, illogical or dangerous to self and/or others. Rivalry means opposing their big cause, often for the right reasons. So it's very possible to be a better friend to someone by choosing the rivalry path, since you're trying to stop them from giving in to their own self-destructive whims. It's not always the most intuitive, but friendship does not necessarily equal doing the "right" thing and rivalry as doing the "bad" thing. It's just as likely to be the other way around." I disagree with the way this explained because of how it played out in the game. I know it is how the writers explained the friendship/rivalry but it doesn't necessarily come across to me as a good thing if you are opposing them all the time. For example, with Fenris, I'm really not sure how you get him to rivalry. First time through I thought it was headed that way before we went to the Deep Roads because I was so supportive of mage freedom, being a mage myself, but then I refused to do any deal with the demon there, which I think earned me approval (can't remember exactly), then I did his personal quest in Act 2 and we were back on track the other way. Giving him the book about Shartan and offering to teach him to read also helped (it always annoyed me that was a heart option as though a friend wouldn't do that as well). I took him everywhere with me so he was helping me rescue mages and of course eventually admits that Hawke is a good mage and resumed our romance, although it did take the length of Act 3 and the Sword of Mercy to finally get there. Still whether a lover or as was later the case, simply a friend, it seemed a much better experience that the angry sounding Fenris I've seen on-line with the rivalry path. Why is that meant to be better? As for Anders, I've never been able to rivalry him and remain true to myself, in other words be supportive of mage freedom. It is not enough, in my experience, simply to criticise his union with Justice, which is the only thing that did sometimes seem a bit dodgy. Very often he is locked in on friendship well before the end of Act 2, so very little that I said was going to make a bit of difference to anything after that. In Act 3 you can totally refuse to co-operate with fetching his ingredients but he still remains your friend and he still turns up and bombs the Chantry. The way I see it is the only way you are going to rivalry him is to constantly criticise mage freedom and be unsupportive of mages as well as condemn his choice over Justice. Quite apart from the fact that I don't see why Anders would even want to hang around with you if you were so totally opposed to his mission, it seems to be that you have to make him more unstable in his relationship with Justice as a result. Essentially you can destroy him on the rivalry path, particularly if you choose to support Meredith and yet still maintain a romance with him, forcing him to kill the mages. So how is that a better path for Anders than friendship? At the end of the friendship path you can still tell him he was wrong and execute him if you feel that is the right thing to do and he accepts that as just for what he did but he is still Anders when he dies, not some broken wreck. I've never been able to rival either Isabella (just don't get enough friendship so she's gone after Act 2) or Varric. I'd love to know how his relationship is better for being rivalled. To my mind the only person for whom the above quotation is even remotely true is Merrill and to be honest having her destroy the eluvian at the end after everything we'd been through was just stupid. I wasn't against mending the damn mirror, just using a demon to help with it. Just hang on a bit, dear, and we'll find a way to fix it eventually (get's out crystal ball - yep, if you just wait long enough Briala is going to wake them all up).
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Post by Sokemis on Sept 16, 2020 23:37:18 GMT
gervaise21 I'm not positive on other ways to earn rivalry with Fenris (even my mage supporting Hawkes have had him locked in to friendship early in Act 2*), besides supporting mages and slavers, and being "mean" to him, but the dragon age wiki has an approval guide for each companion. I know making Orana a slave nets a lot of rivalry points (not that I've ever done it), and I think not going after Hadriana right away yields a fair amount too. As far as the gifts, I think they can give you either friendship or rivalry points, depending on which way you're already leaning. *granted I did purposely leave him behind on some missions. And I think I broke even with him in Feynriel's Act 1 quest by letting Feynriel go to the Dalish but then killing the slavers. I know I've rivaled Merrill once and Sebastian, and I think I was able to successfully rival Isabella and still have her past Act 2, but I've never done a rival romance - they just seem like toxic relationships to me and don't see the appeal of them.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 17, 2020 14:49:11 GMT
I've never done a rival romance - they just seem like toxic relationships to me and don't see the appeal of them. I agree with you over this. Romancing someone whose aims in life are so contrary to your own, seems weird. I've only ever romanced anyone on the friendship path. Rivalry is okay for working together but not beyond that. Mind you I did have a really strange experience involving Fenris and Merrill that I recounted on the old boards. It all came about because of how you have to reach a certain point on the friendship/rivalry scale before the next stage of the relationship/romance will trigger. Now way back in Act 1 I said to Merrill she had nice eyes. It was only a minor flirt and my Hawke did that with everyone once but no more than that. When Isabella took it the wrong way and turned up for sex, he told her no thank you. Anyway, he settled on romancing Fenris and we'd reached all the way into Act 3, we'd made up and so it seemed like our romance would be locked in. Then I upset Merrill enough that I finally reached the rivalry trigger for her romance and she turned up on my doorstep apparently thinking we were in a relationship and most hurt if I tried to dissuade her. Out of pure curiosity I thought I'd let it go on, just to see what the game would do with it, though I'm pretty sure it had to be a bug. Anyway, in the Gallows it was Fenris who was my devoted lover as we went into the fray against the Templars and Merrill seemed just a supporter, but then in the epilogue Varric said it was Merrill who stayed with me. So even Varric was confused about the details of my love life. Still, no harm done because we had the Keep for the carry over into DAI, because I'm not sure what the game files would have done with that if it had been a direct upload.
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Post by phoray on Sept 20, 2020 22:56:37 GMT
I was pro-mage. I sided with mages because of my sister. Fenris and I had one special night. He would tell me "I'm yours". He turned around and joined Meredith. Can't choose this guy again. You need 100% friendship/rivalry + his personal quest, QB to join to defend the mages immediately, or ~80% friendship (I'm not sure about rivalry) to join later, if Hawke convinces him. He needs someone who cares about him. If he doesn't trust enough, he will follow his fear. I need to try a playthrough with the 80% because I think it's believeable he would initially join Meredith in the heat of the moment, only to bail when he faces killing his lover. I love drama
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Dreadnaw Rising
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phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Sept 20, 2020 23:01:11 GMT
I rival romanced Fenris with a sociopathic aggressive Hawke. I don't think it was weird, I think it worked for this particular relationship- they thrived together in their unhealthiness and codependency. It was really cool to roleplay that.
It's just too bad they put so many words in Hawke's mouth come DAI, he would never have sacrificed for anyone or railed against blood magic, so never got to bring him forward.
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