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Post by Syv on Jun 11, 2019 23:06:11 GMT
Did people read Mass effect Initiation ? Alec Ryder didn't doubt one bit about Cora. Alec Ryder planned first Cora to be the next Pathfinder at his death, after experimenting the first SAM called SAM-1 with her, if everything would have happened very well. He wanted to check first if the transfer from him to her could happen and if the adaptation between Cora and SAM-1 ( the first SAM he created without all the improvements he made with his own SAM ) could work. One of the reasons why he integrated SAM-1 to her body while she was going to investigate for him. But it happened that the experience with the SAM -1 tied to her, ( not his own personal ) didn't work as it should, with a brutal degradation of the AI toward the end of the book, which would have ended hurting Cora in a biological way if he didn't act before it was too late, removing the AI from her. Hence Alec Ryder learned and was then certain that actually, only someone from his genetic heritage could inherit ( so, one of the Ryders ) SAM. And he would have to choose between the twins who should have to carry that big burden, who would have to become the next human Pathfinder. He didn't tell the truth to Cora, because she was already sad. It's not a choice. And never Cora would understand why Alec Ryder she respected so much didn't choose her for the succession, why he chose his son or daughter instead of her, despite being commander in second, more ready than he/ she was, hurting her so much. Because Alec died before telling her the truth... or rather because he kept the truth for him... Nothing to do with judgment over competence, nothing to do with having to prepare carefully his succession as pathfinder between several potential candidates. His only choice was one of his children, nothing else, whether they were ready or not, whether they were competent or not, were skilled or not. The formidable technology he developped was ironically limited in a way, and therefore limited his choices. I haven't read that book, no. Does it say anything about why the human Pathfinder absolutely must have an integrated AI? Because none of the others do, and it's kind of the premise all that logic is working from. I'm not reading anything here that suggests he couldn't have made Cora Pathfinder and given SAM to one of his kids on the team. All other Pathfinders have implants allowing them to communicate with SAM, there are four other SAMs for arks Paarchero, Natanus, Leusinia and Keelah Si'yah, although the Hyperion SAM is the most advanced with more powerful, capabilities. This is a result of Alec modifying and upgrading him separately until the Hyperion's departure. The trick is that all the SAMs are based on Alec Ryder's technology, everything comes from his mind. The SAMs he developped and gave to the other Pathfinders of other races are simply standard compared to his own personal SAM ( I don't know how many he created and tried to improve with all his experiences before being satisfied with the one he got and considered almost perfect ), that he modificated so much, that this AI is overall way more powerful, reactive, independent, quicker and smarter than any other SAM, more able to totally connect and harmonize with an organic body and to improve the mental and physical abilities of its human receptacle. You would say that that old fox Alec, as a human soldier with a military mind wanted to keep an advantage for himself and the human race , as much as he was fond of always improving his AI, as a hardened scientist and believer. He wanted to avoid the mistake with AI/ the Geths rebelling against the Quarians, so his experiences happened after the idea on his mind that the AI as much as the organic body to which he is linked to should need each other to survive, should feel the need to help each other, their fate and life depending on having both of them being functional, preventing then an inevitable war. So all these personal experiences or modifications have on one hand very much improved his SAM, and the connection to his body compared to the other SAMs, but at the same time, it totally requires now having his genetic heritage for his succession as his experience with Cora demonstrated. That's the cost of having made the connection between him and SAM so good I would state. That's one of the particular things that is interesting with the human pathfinder and its SAM, the AI couldn't be transfered to any other human without its genetic heritage.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 12, 2019 4:26:01 GMT
Did people read Mass effect Initiation ? No. I wonder what percentage of us did.
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Post by biggydx on Jun 12, 2019 5:28:54 GMT
I haven't read that book, no. Does it say anything about why the human Pathfinder absolutely must have an integrated AI? Because none of the others do, and it's kind of the premise all that logic is working from. I'm not reading anything here that suggests he couldn't have made Cora Pathfinder and given SAM to one of his kids on the team. IIRC, all of the pathfinders do indeed have an AI unit attached to them. However, these AI's are not as advanced as SAM. Here's a wiki description; which was likely pulled from the in-game codex: Pathfinders are the "tip of the spear" for exploring new worlds. While planetary surveying is typically a long-term, multiple-team process, the Initiative found an alternative, thanks to Alec Ryder's AI research: an individual equipped with the best training and technology available, and an AI partner that can run complex studies in seconds and a hundred test simulations a minute.
With AI support, Pathfinders can determine within hours whether a planet is suitable for habitation, and direct the Nexus as to what colonist block stands the best chance there. Pathfinders are trained to improve the viability of potential planets, initiate first contact with unknown species, find suitable outpost sites, and handle any external threats before the first colonist touches soil.
The presence of a Pathfinder is a reassurance that a planet can be settled safely and with a high expectation of success.
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TabithaTH
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by TabithaTH on Jun 15, 2019 7:54:26 GMT
Since 'Training' is polling at the highest right now, I wonder how people would feel about having the main character having pre-established training (w/ a particular group). Or, would you'd rather they be self-taught from the beginning and then grow to become more experienced and specialized as the game progresses? I always liked that Shepard was a seasoned soldier when starting ME1, it made me believe that S/He would have been chosen for the job in the first place. I think I'd prefer if the "tutorial" part of the game was more like in Origins, where you have a mini mission that is completely independent on the main story. Story wise, it only serves to show whomever that you are capable and worthy of recruitment. Then things can happen (like in Origins) to force you into/you can slowly build your rep until you have a bigger role in the organization. Personally though, I think I'd be happier with a smaller covert team which had some orders from above, but at the same time autonomi to get occasional (mutually exclusive) main missions as well as optional side missions. Also, if you want to redeem Solas then (theoretically) all you need is a fade silver-tongue to convince him that people are worth not killing. If you want to kill him, however, I have a hard time seeing how they'll manage this without the aide of something/one magical and special. If the plot has to involve something of this nature, then I'd prefer it if the PC has to venture out and find some artifact (especially if it is so someone else can use it). I don't want to have yet another special power that i didn't somehow earn/choose throughout the story. If the PC has to be special, I'll accept (as an example) if they happen to be the only scholar of Evanuris. At least then they'd have had to study for many years prior to the main story, as opposed to falling into a well of sorrows and suddenly knowing everything about ancient Elvhen lore just as such lore is needed the most.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Jun 15, 2019 12:39:42 GMT
I wouldn't be opposed to a Shepherd like origin, where we choose our background, a defining moment in our lives and a role model we look up to. I think Cyberpunk 2077 is doing something similar for its character creation. I think us being a specialist in a certain field is unfeasible because in almost every Bioware game, it is our companions who are unique, qualified and are extremely competent in their field of expertise. Our main job as the Player Character is to mold these widely varied individuals into a cohesive and effective team.
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Post by x19dude95 on Jul 18, 2019 1:51:12 GMT
Nothing. Make them Like Hawke.
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Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Post by biggydx on Jul 18, 2019 2:44:08 GMT
Nothing. Make them Like Hawke. Wouldn't that just be the "Training" option. Technically, Hawke already has some level of combat training prior to escaping Fereldan. There's also the training they get when they join up with that Merc company upon reaching Kirkwall.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 18, 2019 3:28:58 GMT
Nothing. Make them Like Hawke. Wouldn't that just be the "Training" option. Technically, Hawke already has some level of combat training prior to escaping Fereldan. There's also the training they get when they join up with that Merc company upon reaching Kirkwall. plus she and the Arishock were interesting ideological foils.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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PSN: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Aug 4, 2019 14:35:13 GMT
I don't think the new PC should be the one to deal with Solas, the Inquisitor has personal stakes tying them to him, would make no sense for some unrelated person to directly determine his fate. That said, aside that I'd prefer someonne who's specialness is limited to what the Inquisitor had going for them pre-Anchor, just an exceptionally competent and strong/skilled/powerful warrior/rogue/mage.
Which btw, that's what Hawke was too. Hawke was special in that s/he was an exceedingly strong fighter/powerful mage. Your sibling (Carver at least, Idr if Bethany does) tells Aveline the reason they survived Ostagar, and the darkspawn horde at Lothering is Hawke, he even says that while he his himself a very skilled warrior, he's not his sister (or brother). The mercenary company you join for year grows immensely because Hawke works for them. S/he defeats the military leader of the Qun in single combat (essentially meaning no warrior from Par Vollen is better than Hawke) and in Legacy you fight and kill an ancient darkspawn Magister, which makes a mage Hawke one of the most skilled and powerful mages in the history of Thedas.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 4, 2019 22:48:00 GMT
The Inquisitor only has a personal stake if you roleplay them that way. My Inquisitors don't regard Solas any differently than they would regard any other world-ending threat. That he was once a friend/ally is irrelevent.
Besides, everybody keeps touting this "personal stakes" thing as if nobody else could EVER have a compelling, personal reason to want to stop Solas.
Why WOULDN'T BioWare be able to come up with motivation for a new character to become involved? They've been able to do that with EVERY OTHER GAME.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 4, 2019 22:56:58 GMT
The Inquisitor only has a personal stake if you roleplay them that way. My Inquisitors don't regard Solas any differently than they would regard any other world-ending threat. That he was once a friend/ally is irrelevent. Besides, everybody keeps touting this "personal stakes" thing as if nobody else could EVER have a compelling, personal reason to want to stop Solas. Why WOULDN'T BioWare be able to come up with motivation for a new character to become involved? They've been able to do that with EVERY OTHER GAME. they did it with Cory and the Inquisitor (sort of)
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 5, 2019 2:51:10 GMT
The Inquisitor only has a personal stake if you roleplay them that way. My Inquisitors don't regard Solas any differently than they would regard any other world-ending threat. That he was once a friend/ally is irrelevent. Besides, everybody keeps touting this "personal stakes" thing as if nobody else could EVER have a compelling, personal reason to want to stop Solas. Why WOULDN'T BioWare be able to come up with motivation for a new character to become involved? They've been able to do that with EVERY OTHER GAME. they did it with Cory and the Inquisitor (sort of) Look, I do not LIKE the inciting incident we were given in Inquisition, being bestowed with unique powers is tired and played out, ditto for amnesia. However, it was perfectly serviceable as a motivating factor for a character to get involved. Other people may disagree, but no one thing is going to work for everybody. Also, just to point it out, the inciting incident that provokes the protagonist to get involved in the larger conflict does not have to personally involve Solas at all. It's extremely common for protagonists of stories to merely be after revenge on someone else entirely, or a payday, or something else equally selfish, or to simply stumble in by accident. There is absolutely nothing required of a protagonist, except that they be the character the story is about.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 5, 2019 2:58:25 GMT
they did it with Cory and the Inquisitor (sort of) Look, I do not LIKE the inciting incident we were given in Inquisition, being bestowed with unique powers is tired and played out, ditto for amnesia. However, it was perfectly serviceable as a motivating factor for a character to get involved. Other people may disagree, but no one thing is going to work for everybody. Also, just to point it out, the inciting incident that provokes the protagonist to get involved in the larger conflict does not have to personally involve Solas at all. It's extremely common for protagonists of stories to merely be after revenge on someone else entirely, or a payday, or something else equally selfish, or to simply stumble in by accident. There is absolutely nothing required of a protagonist, except that they be the character the story is about.Amen. I kind of agree with you about Inquisition's inciting incident. It did give Corypheus and the Inquisitor a specific reason to be in conflict with one another, he wants the anchor, the anchor is attached to the Inquisitor...so the Inquisitor has to stop Cory in order to save her own skin. Its as effective a motivation as any. Just my probablem with it was A. We didn't get enough screentime between Cory and the Inquisitor...there are several ways this could have been accomplished but they really only had...two conversations the entire game. It was borderline criminal..especially with how awesome Hawke's relationship was with the Arishok. Then of course Cory was portrayed as a rage monster on screen (rightfully so in some ways) when if you pay attention to the lore he was thoughtful, considered, intelligent, dubious. The Inquisitor really did get a lot of their victories through luck, grit, and 'divine providence'.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 5, 2019 4:12:24 GMT
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Post by wickedcool on Aug 5, 2019 13:15:16 GMT
Immune to solas stone magic-
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Post by Iddy on Aug 5, 2019 13:19:58 GMT
I don't think the new PC should be the one to deal with Solas, the Inquisitor has personal stakes tying them to him, would make no sense for some unrelated person to directly determine his fate. That said, aside that I'd prefer someonne who's specialness is limited to what the Inquisitor had going for them pre-Anchor, just an exceptionally competent and strong/skilled/powerful warrior/rogue/mage. Yeah, well... Corypheus was Hawke's enemy first, but the next protagonist was the one who defeated him for good.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Aug 5, 2019 13:26:18 GMT
It's possible to have no personal stake with Solas sure, but in most cases he's at least a former ally who betrayed you, and unless you were on neutral terms, he's either that guy you hate who's now also trying to destroy the world (which is kinda weak stakes admittedly) or a former friend who you either still see as a misguided friend to redeem or a betrayer you want to kill, or a friend you're ready to potentially kill for the sake of the world. Or any of the previous 3 things but even more so if he was/is your lover instead of your friend.
Not sure how a new PC can really have strong motivations to oppose him beyond stopping an apocalypse that could apply to all possible races/backgrounds.
Corypheus was technically a Hawke villain that someone else killed I guess, but Corypheus doesn't have personal stakes with anyone, he's an evil dickhead who wants to wreck the world because he's an evil dickhead, his rivalry with the Inquisitor is one-sided unless you headcanon that it isn't.
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Post by x19dude95 on Aug 5, 2019 13:38:03 GMT
Nothing. Make them Like Hawke. Wouldn't that just be the "Training" option. Technically, Hawke already has some level of combat training prior to escaping Fereldan. There's also the training they get when they join up with that Merc company upon reaching Kirkwall. True. But I was saying don't make them the Jesus type character. Make it so anyone could do mission but we just get shucked into it.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
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Post by Doominike on Aug 5, 2019 14:38:32 GMT
Well you kinda have to at least be some kind of super badass if nothing else. If you're just some average soldier there's no way you even remotely stand a chance against anyone or anything that halfway qualifies as a boss.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 5, 2019 15:30:14 GMT
Look, I do not LIKE the inciting incident we were given in Inquisition, being bestowed with unique powers is tired and played out, ditto for amnesia. However, it was perfectly serviceable as a motivating factor for a character to get involved. Other people may disagree, but no one thing is going to work for everybody. Also, just to point it out, the inciting incident that provokes the protagonist to get involved in the larger conflict does not have to personally involve Solas at all. It's extremely common for protagonists of stories to merely be after revenge on someone else entirely, or a payday, or something else equally selfish, or to simply stumble in by accident. There is absolutely nothing required of a protagonist, except that they be the character the story is about. I remember threads about how DA:O handled this. A lot of people felt that some origins didn't work very well. Leaving aside altruism, should a Dalish elf or either dwarf personally care about a Blight? For dwarves this is Tuesday, and a Dalish tribe can simply leave and let Ferelden burn, as the Warden's tribe does. At least a city elf, mage, and human noble are actually Fereldan citizens, nominally -- although if a city elf wanted to see the whole place go down, I wouldn't blame her. I thought the origins worked OK for dwarves too, but maybe not as intended. Being a Grey Warden is a path to power and influence which the dwarves otherwise wouldn't have. Not all that relevant to DA4 since what Solas intends is going to be highly relevant to everybody.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 5, 2019 15:32:44 GMT
Well you kinda have to at least be some kind of super badass if nothing else. If you're just some average soldier there's no way you even remotely stand a chance against anyone or anything that halfway qualifies as a boss. Agreed. Maybe Training shouldn't be an option, since any PC will have to be a highly-skilled personal combatant.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 5, 2019 22:49:10 GMT
Look, I do not LIKE the inciting incident we were given in Inquisition, being bestowed with unique powers is tired and played out, ditto for amnesia. However, it was perfectly serviceable as a motivating factor for a character to get involved. Other people may disagree, but no one thing is going to work for everybody. Also, just to point it out, the inciting incident that provokes the protagonist to get involved in the larger conflict does not have to personally involve Solas at all. It's extremely common for protagonists of stories to merely be after revenge on someone else entirely, or a payday, or something else equally selfish, or to simply stumble in by accident. There is absolutely nothing required of a protagonist, except that they be the character the story is about. I remember threads about how DA:O handled this. A lot of people felt that some origins didn't work very well. Leaving aside altruism, should a Dalish elf or either dwarf personally care about a Blight? For dwarves this is Tuesday, and a Dalish tribe can simply leave and let Ferelden burn, as the Warden's tribe does. At least a city elf, mage, and human noble are actually Fereldan citizens, nominally -- although if a city elf wanted to see the whole place go down, I wouldn't blame her. I thought the origins worked OK for dwarves too, but maybe not as intended. Being a Grey Warden is a path to power and influence which the dwarves otherwise wouldn't have. Not all that relevant to DA4 since what Solas intends is going to be highly relevant to everybody. Well, regardless of whether or not your character personally cares about the Blight, every Origin culminates in your character eventually having no option but to join the Grey Wardens. And while Darkspawn in general may be a daily problem for dwarves, all the information we are given (which we have no choice but to trust at the time, since little/no alternative is presented), is that the amassing of a force of this size is, at the very least, an unusual occurence that potentially threatens the entire world. But as I said, nothing is going to work for everybody. If you've accidentally or deliberately created a character who is resistant to getting involved in the conflict that constitutes the main plot, then there's nothing to be done about it.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 6, 2019 0:14:33 GMT
I think that might be one of the reasons they should try and make multiple points of contention between any potential *new* protag and Solas. Solas could've killed your family *and* is a threat to your city *and* is a threat to the world...for instance...which could give your character multiple points of contention to care about the overall fight. Your character could love their father so is out for revenge against Solas who killed him or he may hate his family causing him to not really care.
It will be curious to see how far BioWare takes this sort of thing.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 6, 2019 13:57:36 GMT
I remember threads about how DA:O handled this. A lot of people felt that some origins didn't work very well. Leaving aside altruism, should a Dalish elf or either dwarf personally care about a Blight? For dwarves this is Tuesday, and a Dalish tribe can simply leave and let Ferelden burn, as the Warden's tribe does. At least a city elf, mage, and human noble are actually Fereldan citizens, nominally -- although if a city elf wanted to see the whole place go down, I wouldn't blame her. I thought the origins worked OK for dwarves too, but maybe not as intended. Being a Grey Warden is a path to power and influence which the dwarves otherwise wouldn't have. Not all that relevant to DA4 since what Solas intends is going to be highly relevant to everybody. Well, regardless of whether or not your character personally cares about the Blight, every Origin culminates in your character eventually having no option but to join the Grey Wardens. And while Darkspawn in general may be a daily problem for dwarves, all the information we are given (which we have no choice but to trust at the time, since little/no alternative is presented), is that the amassing of a force of this size is, at the very least, an unusual occurence that potentially threatens the entire world. But as I said, nothing is going to work for everybody. If you've accidentally or deliberately created a character who is resistant to getting involved in the conflict that constitutes the main plot, then there's nothing to be done about it. My point was more that Orzammar is likely better off if the Blight continues for a while, since those darkspawn are going to the surface. Yeah, the Blight consuming the world would be a problem, but you can reasonably bet that Orlais et al. will win the thing even if Ferelden goes down first. And being Joined doesn't mean that you have to accept the organization's mission. I'd have liked a dialog option with Alistair at the first camp where the Warden tells Alistair "sorry, dude, but KMAG YOYO," and the game immediately ends. (Or launches the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC if you have it.) Haven't seen this in too many games; Storm of Zehir is the most recent one I can remember.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 6, 2019 16:26:38 GMT
Well, regardless of whether or not your character personally cares about the Blight, every Origin culminates in your character eventually having no option but to join the Grey Wardens. And while Darkspawn in general may be a daily problem for dwarves, all the information we are given (which we have no choice but to trust at the time, since little/no alternative is presented), is that the amassing of a force of this size is, at the very least, an unusual occurence that potentially threatens the entire world. But as I said, nothing is going to work for everybody. If you've accidentally or deliberately created a character who is resistant to getting involved in the conflict that constitutes the main plot, then there's nothing to be done about it. My point was more that Orzammar is likely better off if the Blight continues for a while, since those darkspawn are going to the surface. Yeah, the Blight consuming the world would be a problem, but you can reasonably bet that Orlais et al. will win the thing even if Ferelden goes down first. And being Joined doesn't mean that you have to accept the organization's mission. I'd have liked a dialog option with Alistair at the first camp where the Warden tells Alistair "sorry, dude, but KMAG YOYO," and the game immediately ends. (Or launches the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC if you have it.) Haven't seen this in too many games; Storm of Zehir is the most recent one I can remember. Deadfire if you tell Berath to basically f*ck off at the beginning, she leaves and lets you die, game over (though it does tell you you reincarnate into some kind of animal) Torment, Tides of Numenera if you make absolutely no attempt to save yourself the game lets you die, and even trolls you by saying your life meant absolutely nothing. At any rate, even a dwarf or Dalish might have an interest in stopping the Blight, given every previous one has lasted for decades or more, involved a number of nations being overrun, and there is absolutely no reason to think Orlais could handle this one by itself.The Blight could very well spread to Orlais, the Free marches, Nevarra, Antiva, etc. This would be bad for the Dalish in those areas, and trade with the surface would certainly be disrupted for Orzammar.
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