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Post by Absafraginlootly on Feb 12, 2020 9:51:53 GMT
If elves/the evanuris were originally spirits I wonder if when Mythal rallied the gods against Falon'din and bloodied him in his own temple what they actually did was kill him, causing him to reform, as spirits like Solas's friend wisdom do. Perhaps she did the same to Andruil when she "stole" her knowledge of the void? Killing her so she would no longer remember the knowledge of the void when she returned. Maybe when you live for thousands of years you need the occasional reboot, if you should become corrupted? In both of those examples the other gods are in agreement with Mythal because they are threatened too. Perhaps her murder was also an unanimously agreed reboot, one that Solas believed unjustified? In which case was it a ploy to get her out of the way so that others could get away with something they couldn't while she was around - something so bad that Solas felt the need to put the veil up? Or maybe Mythal really did need a reboot for some reason... If they did reboot each other then perhaps Dirthamen's practise of storing secrets inside his followers was his way of getting around it - so he could make sure he didn't lose anything.
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Post by azarhal on Feb 24, 2020 14:33:00 GMT
If they did reboot each other then perhaps Dirthamen's practise of storing secrets inside his followers was his way of getting around it - so he could make sure he didn't lose anything. I've been thinking about this and it's now I think that it's not that different from what Flemeth does in DA2 with the amulet. She just needed a little piece of her soul in an object to be brought back. And now that I realize this, she might have done that trick again at the end of DAI. She pushed a bit of her soul through the portal so she can respawn eventually despite Solas absorbing all the rest. And what if all the Enuvaris were prepared like that? The only reasons they aren't back already is that their followers who knew about the object/items/secret to use died before they could do it or they lost the objects used to respawn their master in Solas's Rebellion.
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Post by ellehaym on Feb 24, 2020 16:20:40 GMT
If they did reboot each other then perhaps Dirthamen's practise of storing secrets inside his followers was his way of getting around it - so he could make sure he didn't lose anything. I've been thinking about this and it's now I think that it's not that different from what Flemeth does in DA2 with the amulet. She just needed a little piece of her soul in an object to be brought back. And now that I realize this, she might have done that trick again at the end of DAI. She pushed a bit of her soul through the portal so she can respawn eventually despite Solas absorbing all the rest. And what if all the Enuvaris were prepared like that? The only reasons they aren't back already is that their followers who knew about the object/items/secret to use died before they could do it or they lost the objects used to respawn their master in Solas's Rebellion. There's also that other "Mythal" that sprung out of the Well of Sorrows and into the Eluvian and broke it to prevent Corypheus from using it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 24, 2020 19:26:33 GMT
And what if all the Enuvaris were prepared like that? Well Solas does say in Trespasser that the "First of my People" aren't easily killed (permanently) which is why he opted for banishment instead as a way to permanently remove them from the world. I have also previously suggested that the 7 dragons imprisoned underground, that Tevinter know as the Old Gods, may be the split soul representatives of each of the Evanuris, just like Corypheus. He had to have got the idea from somewhere and it would seem he only linked with the dragon after Hawke released him, so possibly after he got the orb from Solas which is where he got the knowledge from, as he did the Well of Sorrows. If the Evanuris had split their souls in this way, it would account for why Solas gets so worked up at the idea of killing them, because the soul would then be free to be reunited with the original. Flemeth's idea of capturing the soul with the Dark Ritual would also prevent this.
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Post by dayze on Apr 19, 2020 4:11:46 GMT
Here's some crazy theories for you:
Theory One:
The "Dark Wolf" of DAO: Awakening was a piece of the Dread Wolf(The Awakening refers not to The Mother and her Children but to Solas?)
Both elves; both have a network of agents, both work for "oppressed groups" and doing so by getting their hands dirty.
Crazy Theory Two:
The Dread Wolf is not Solas; or more like Solas is the "tail" the Dread Wolf bit off to escape the guard dog in one of elven tales. And the Dread Wolf is the "Fade Beast" main part that carried on.....possibly having a similar relationship with Solas as the Zathrian and Witherfang.
Crazy Theory Three:
When Alistair kills Yavana you can she her spirit as dragon-like claws grabbing onto him and a couple of the fingers are entering his body at the very tips. So right now Alistair is either possessed by Yavana or her spirit is riding around in his body waiting for a good time to leap to a better host.
Crazy Theory Four:
Here there be Giants; I want to say various larger than usual skulls and coffins were hanging around DAI, there is even that one pile of large skulls with a slice of cheese on it....which did it seem like DAI kind of had a cheese thing going on?
In Descent a soldier comes back babbling about various things but one of them is a giant skeleton on a throne.
DA2 has that large Rock Wraith and it's large skeleton.
When Flemeth gets killed it is in front of an unusually large eluvian.....made for unusually large people?
Crazy Theory Five:
The Profane and the Forgotten are the same entities. This is going by how the text for them goes, has the same feel to it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 19, 2020 11:20:21 GMT
The Profane and the Forgotten are the same entities. This is going by how the text for them goes, has the same feel to it. Not sure about them being the same but I have been giving some thought to that Ancient Thaig in the light of what we now know about Mythal and her connection with the Deep Roads and the dwarves. I always thought the idol reminded me of Flemeth so it comes as no surprise that the idol probably depicts Mythal doing something significant. So was it created before or after her death? Access to the Ancient Thaig had been prevented due to the darkspawn occupying the Deep Roads. However, apart from the golems guarding the door, there seemed nothing else to prevent entry, which seems a bit odd. From what I recall, the profane are meant to be the souls of dwarves who have been rejected by the Stone. This makes sense considering these dwarves would appear to have been placed in thrall to Mythal after she destroyed a Titan. Were they sealed into the Thaig whilst still alive and then died there? In which case could the idol itself have been the reason it was sealed. Was this the place mentioned in Trespasser? In which case was the idol the result of what the other Evanuris did to Mythal? When Solas discovered it, that is when he and his followers sealed the place? He used his own orb to create the Veil but now this has been destroyed is that why he needs the idol, to give him the power for his ritual? On the other hand, if the idol is the property of Mythal and her worshipers, may be only she can use it safely. Hence Solas needing to absorb her essence in order to do so. The modern dwarfs claim that the golems were the creation of Caridin, using his Anvil of the Void, but it now seems more likely that he probably found the Anvil during a foray into the Deep Roads and the instructions on how to use it as the Ancient Thaig and its golems pre-date the First Blight. Could the Anvil have been the property of June, an Evanuris we know little about apart from Dalish folklore saying he was a sort of smith or god of crafting and the Memory of the followers of Sylaise creating the Grand Sonallium as a gift to than "clever" June for a particular favour he had done for her. When Flemeth gets killed it is in front of an unusually large eluvian.....made for unusually large people? Have you got World of Thedas 1? On page 38/39 there is a double page picture that seems to be depicting the Deep Roads with normal sized explorers being confronted by a gigantic figure. Is it a statue, a spirit or an actual entity that we have yet to encounter? Whatever the case it is certainly neither a dwarf or a darkspawn. The Dread Wolf is not Solas; or more like Solas is the "tail" the Dread Wolf bit off to escape the guard dog in one of elven tales. And the Dread Wolf is the "Fade Beast" main part that carried on.....possibly having a similar relationship with Solas as the Zathrian and Witherfang. This is not such a crazy theory. The relationship between Zathrian and Witherfang or the Lady of the Forest and Witherfang could give us some insights into what is going on with Solas. Actually that latter relationship between the Lady and Witherfang is probably more pertient. Zathrian was merely given longevity by his connection with the spirit via the spell but before the Veil all elves were immortal and the First of them somewhat difficult to kill as well. However, with the Lady and Witherfang they are two aspects of the same being and the Spirit has control over which aspect is present at any given time. I think the same is true of Solas. He admits that he adopted the persona of the Dread Wolf to intimidate his enemies and encourage his friends. The Evanuris also warn how the Dread Wolf is almost more dangerous in his "humble guise" of a wise wanderer who leads the unwary astray with his words. So clearly there are two sides to him and the side you see depends on how he wishes to deal with you; gain your trust in order to advance his agenda or simply destroy you. I also believe that the Fade Beast aspect has always been around even when his body was sleeping out the millennia. The Dalish folklore speaks of Fen'Harel stalking the Fade and they claim he imprisoned the other gods so he could have exclusive control over it. It seems to me this is based on more than looking at a few drawings in ruins and half remembered tales. I think that Dalish Keepers may have encountered the Dread Wolf in the Fade, even if only at a distance, and it was fear of him in particular that made the Dalish wary of using any magic that involved spirits. Note, it was the consensus of the hahren'al (gathering of the elders at the Arlathvhen) that what Zathrian had done was a crime against nature, which makes one wonder where he got the knowledge of the spell from if it wasn't normal Dalish magic.
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Post by annia on May 3, 2020 10:28:28 GMT
I just watched a rather interesting theory video from saria. It was called Dragon Age 4 Theory: Lyrium is a Silver Cord. She has a way of presenting information that usually manages to help me not to understand a thing unless I watch video like ten times. I didn't actually watch the entire thing ten times, but she compared bible texts to thedas lore and comes to the conclusion that dragon age lore draws from the bible regarding to the way mind, body and spirit are split from one another. I didn't find her theory that lyrium is the world's silver thread that connects it to the fade, holds foundations and bodies together very compelling because the world, the Fade and the Titans are older than the veil. We know so little about the Titans that the only thing we can be sure of is that they and their blood is important. What I did find very interesting were the Dragon Age references that she had dug up to support her theory. 1. the Watchguard of the Reaching, 2. Merrill's story of Fen'Harel, 3. Cole's lines about the Stone. I would recommend you check her theory in Youtube since I don't consider myself the best person to explain her theories.
She refers to a quest in Origins in the Circle Tower called Watchguard of the Reaching, which refers to biblical text ecc 12:6, which mentions silver thread, golden bowl, the fountain and the broken pitcher. Apparently the bowl is a reference to hearing the voice of god within yourself. She procedes to connect the concept of bowl to reaching to the furthest part of the fade. It is mentioned in the puzzle in Watchguard of the Reaching. To complete the puzzle you need to click the statues in the following order:
The statue holding a bowl in the Common Room The statue holding a sword pointing UP in the Common Room The statue holding a sword pointing DOWN in the Common Room The statue holding a shield in the central room.
Apparently there is a Ritual of the Reaching that mages may use trying to reach the Black City in their dreams, but apparently the bowl isn't enough to accomplish this.They also need to sever the connection between their bodies and spirit (the silver cord[also mentioned in one of the quest notes]) The quote she refers to, refers to brethren of the air, which sounds like an old Elvhen reference to spirits to me. This makes me think that the mages are trying to recreate an older ritual, which might have had significant differences. If the ritual is old enough, it would predate the veil and would have accomplished different things in those days.
Merril mentions a very specific sword in the story she tells about the Dreadwolf:
"A Blade that would end the war.
He Told the Creators that it was forged in heavens and the Forgotten Ones that it was hidden in Abyss."
This made me wonder if this is actually a reference to the creation of the veil and maybe the sword mentioned was actually the Lyrium Idol that even Meredith was able transform into a sword temporarely. We know from Tevinter Nights that Solas considers the Lyrium Idol as his.
Stone, still there, silent,
but reaching for the blood that still walks. No dreams with the cord cut. You sell it.
To me this reference has always referred to the dwarves who used to be a part of the Titan. We just don't know how they got separated. The way saria linked these concepts together made me consider that severance of the dwarves and the creation of the veil might be connected. Solas has this dialogue with Varric where he asks very pointedly if he misses the Stone. After we found out more about the Titans in the Trespasser DLC, I've started to think that this line is probably more significant than we know. Now that I've started to connect the two together in my mind, I'm wondering if the separation of the dwarves might not be Solas's doing and he is asking to find out if the victims of his plan are still suffering for his mistakes.
To recap: To create the veil, Solas needed to reach really high to wrap the veil around the entire Black City, making it out of reach of anyone, until the Magisters managed to pierce his protections and release the Blight contained within. I'm assuming that the Titans were already asleep since the Elves had access to lyrium as we found out in Trespasser. To Reach the Black City he somehow needed to sever the dwarves from their Titan or at least to tap into the power of their Titan. Maybe he meant to sever a single dwarf, because he didn't consider them as real people, but it backfired on him since the severance of the entire hivemind would have probably created a backlash. Maybe the sword was made of Lyrium to make sure that it would be able to separate the entire hivemind from their Titan. If my theory is correct, we know that this is what happened, but we don't know if this was actually the plan. The reason I'm considering all these maybes is the following Flementh quote: "Things happened that were never meant to happen". This kind of event would probably create a great deal of power, which would have been useful for the creation of the veil, or it might be the very reason why Solas was out of action for ages to come. The reason there is dwarven architecture in Skyhold is that it was once a very significant place for dwarves as well. The place where their civilization began so to speak, since the separation happened there. Since Solas was in Uthenera after his ritual, it makes sense to me that the Idol would end up in dwarf-hands and be taken to the Deep Roads.
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Post by dayze on May 3, 2020 23:23:50 GMT
Another possibility for their being dwarven architecture in Skyhold is that it was originally underground.
When Corypheus gets his game on; the stones and what not start levitating and floating around him.
Maybe back in the day; it got raised all the way out of the ground and became a mountain or even an entire range of mountains.
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Post by yogsothoth on May 5, 2020 20:42:14 GMT
Bored at work, random thoughts:
There are parallels being made between the Titans-Dwarves, Blight/Darkspawn, and now the Cekorax. All three are shown longing to collect or be a part of something greater: Titans want to reconnect to the dwarves, the Darkspawn are inherently trying to spread the Blight, and the Cekorax is collecting the heads of citizens and adding it to itself. There is also a hivemind element with all of these creatures. The dwarves were originally a hivemind shared by the Titan, the Archdemons/Magisters control the lesser Darkspawn through the Calling/some song (and the Grey Warden tapping into this when they experience the Calling), and the heads that the Cekorax collects become a part of it through which it can communicate. I conjecture that the Titans originate from the Void, same as it was suggested Cekorax is from "beyond this world and the Fade." I have posited previously that I believe that the Darkspawn is essentially a corrupted form of the Titan-Dwarf connection. Lyrium has a song, Red Lyrium is Lyrium corrupted by the Blight, the Darkspawn are drawn to songs (both Archdemons pre-corruption and post-corruption), etc.
At the same time, spirits are fragmentary by their very nature, only representative of one idea/emotion/vice/virtue. We also know that spirits can be split in the physical sense, as seen with Wisps and Flemeth/Mythal. The original purpose of the Legion of the Dead was said to be to cleanse the Stone of the Gangue. They did so by chipping, or creating fragments, away the Gangue from the Stone. The Gangue was also said to be translated to "impure spirit-of-the-stone." Cole also says of the Gangue demons in the Hissing Wastes "They were dwarves. They think they still are." I take this to mean then that the Stone is the origin of both Dwarves and spirits. The Stone would be pure Spirit/Fade energy, or just a giant Spirit. The Titans, being the shapers of the Stone, are able to manipulate this energy and using their form of blood magic (which has been suggested as necessary to give beings physical form) created Dwarves, making a complete being and adding them to their hivemind. If there was an incomplete Dwarf, they remained as part of the Stone, becoming the Gangue as a fragmentary "demon." I believe this process to be similar to spirit binding as practiced by the Mortalitasi and Tevinter nobles, whereby a spirit using blood magic is given physical form.
Further, I think the Fade is essentially the mindscape of the Titans. Spirits and mages are able to freely shape the Fade by pure thought. When the world and Fade were one, the Titans were able to shape the land as they wanted because it was their own mind. When Solas created the Veil, he sundered the Titans from their own minds, putting them basically in a coma. They are no longer capable of conscious thought, but still have unconscious ones since they still long for the Dwarves (similar to the Tranquil). As a part of the Descent DLC, the Breach as caused one Titan to start to wake up. This is due to it regaining it's access to it's mind, whereby it is placated by reconnecting to Valta.
I don't remember if I ever said how I think the Evanuris tied into this, but I'll leave it here for now.
TL;DR: The Titans are essentially blood mages from the Void who Solas made Tranquil through the Veil, and they were responsible for creating Spirits by accident.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on May 7, 2020 20:55:56 GMT
The Evanuris mostly likely became “Gods” after striking down the Titans. I also reckon whatever they mined for is what gave them their godlike powers. What I think is telling is how the Evanuris treated their deaths- Mythal is associated with mercy, and Elgar’nan with adulation. The writers aren’t hiding the fact that Elgarn’nan hates Titans. Why?
There’s a reoccurring theme of Love, Jealousy, and Betrayal with Mythal’s death. Flemeth says that she knew the hearts of men before Mythal came to her, also stating it being the reason why she came to her. Titans were shaking Elvhen cities - based on her very nature, maybe Mythal was the only god that found a peaceful solution rather than striking one down.
Maybe Mythal calmed the Titan’s heart and they worked in peaceful unison, giving all the land - Deep Roads and above - to both Dwarves and Elves. Mythal would then have something unique that the other Evanuris did not, and even more noteworthy, she would actively be working with the enemy of her lover, Elgarnan, through a special bond.
I think Arlathan plays a significant role in this - it could very well be the Titan’s heart itself - but I don’t have much to speculate beyond that.
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Post by dayze on May 7, 2020 22:37:04 GMT
The Evanuris mostly likely became “Gods” after striking down the Titans. I also reckon whatever they mined for is what gave them their godlike powers. What I think is telling is how the Evanuris treated their deaths- Mythal is associated with mercy, and Elgar’nan with adulation. The writers aren’t hiding the fact that Elgarn’nan hates Titans. Why? There’s a reoccurring theme of Love, Jealousy, and Betrayal with Mythal’s death. Flemeth says that she knew the hearts of men before Mythal came to her, also stating it being the reason why she came to her. Titans were shaking Elvhen cities - based on her very nature, maybe Mythal was the only god that found a peaceful solution rather than striking one down. Maybe Mythal calmed the Titan’s heart and they worked in peaceful unison, giving all the land - Deep Roads and above - to both Dwarves and Elves. Mythal would then have something unique that the other Evanuris did not, and even more noteworthy, she would actively be working with the enemy of her lover, Elgarnan, through a special bond. I think Arlathan plays a significant role in this - it could very well be the Titan’s heart itself - but I don’t have much to speculate beyond that. Hmm.....would that mean the titan was her "Bard lover" factoring in that lyrium sings and Elgarnan was her jealous husband that tricked her and a Titan into a "peace meeting" of some kind only to betray her, presumably imprison her in the fade (or maybe just kill her and reduce her to wisp status for awhile)? As something like how Flemeth's own origins came about. Maybe that's exactly why Mythal choose flemeth to join with, the more similar the history, the more similar the personality the less jarring and extreme the joining and the more the spirit (and I suppose the mortal as well) retains their "true" self.
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Post by yogsothoth on May 7, 2020 23:03:48 GMT
The Evanuris mostly likely became “Gods” after striking down the Titans. I also reckon whatever they mined for is what gave them their godlike powers. What I think is telling is how the Evanuris treated their deaths- Mythal is associated with mercy, and Elgar’nan with adulation. The writers aren’t hiding the fact that Elgarn’nan hates Titans. Why? I maintain that the "war" that caused the Evanuris to be seen as gods was against the Great Dragons, not the Titans. The first act ascribed to Elgar'nan was throwing down the Sun. Yavana said that dragons once ruled the sky. It would be weird to analogize the Titans, beings who are associated with earth and water, with the Sun instead of dragons. I also think the Titans would be too powerful for Spirits to be able to take down, since they can counteract the Fade with their Blood Magic. The Evanuris would turn to another source of blood, the Great Dragons. This would also be why the dragon form is reserved for the Evanuris only, something that even Mythal takes seriously enough to judge those outside of the Evanuris as worthy of punishment by Elgar'nan. Another thing, we know that Andruil was said to have a weapon that's speculated to be forged from Red Lyrium, or at least something containing the Blight, and now Solas has been revealed to be the owner of the Red Lyrium idol. Since Dragons are naturally resistant to the Blight, this could explain how they are able to use these objects without immediately becoming Blighted themselves. I would also like to add that I think that Elgar'nan obtained dragons' blood by killing them, but Mythal was given the blood willingly. We know dragons willingly give their blood to select people, as seen by the Cult of Andraste in Haven. We also know that Mythal taught Morrigan Shapeshifting through watching animals, and becoming as them. Finally, Yavana, a daughter of Mythal/Flemeth, was keeping a Great Dragon, along with other dragons, safe and hidden away. Side tangent based on this idea, I also think it's possible that Mythal was actually the one that was considered both an Evanuris and a Forgotten One. The Forgotten Ones believe that godhood is determined through actions, not by what one is. The Evanuris seem to use the dragon form at the very least as a delineation for determining godhood. Solas describes Mythal's actions as being unlike the other Evanuris. Further, if both groups found out about Mythal double-crossing both sides and mutually agreed to kill her, it would explain why Solas locked away both groups and not just the Evanuris. One problem: we have been explicitly told that Mythal killed at least one Titan. I subscribe to the "Arlathan = Black City" theory, and that Arlathan was built out of a Titan's corpse that the other Titans then used to taint the Lyrium, creating Red Lyrium and ultimately the Blights when the Magisters eventually made their way there.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on May 8, 2020 0:05:15 GMT
I maintain that the "war" that caused the Evanuris to be seen as gods was against the Great Dragons, not the Titans.[/quote] Elgarn’nan is specifically mentioned as being first among the gods after striking a Titan down: dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Vir_Dirthara:_Signs_of_VictoryMythal is also celebrated in another codex. Regardless, there is still a noteworthy difference between how Mythal and Elgarn’nan are portrayed in relation to Titans. Yes, in a codex. We are also told in a codex that the Dread Wolf locked away all Elvhen gods, including Mythal, to The Beyond. We of course learn this to not exactly be true. Based on her very nature she is a protector of this world and it’s beings - killing something intrinsic to the makeup of Thedas itself goes against what she represents, so I think there’s way more to that codex than what is said.
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Post by yogsothoth on May 8, 2020 0:58:16 GMT
In dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Old_Elven_Writing it describes the death of the Titan as being a mercy for the Dwarves. It has been suggested that Mythal has an interest in the Dwarves as seen with Sandal. Presumably, her killing the Titan was originally either to free the Dwarves or stop them from disrupting Elves/Spirits, but when Lyrium was found, the other Evanuris proceeded to kill others while Mythal was merely concerned about the Dwarves/Elves/Spirits.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 8, 2020 16:27:32 GMT
Presumably, her killing the Titan was originally either to free the Dwarves or stop them from disrupting Elves/Spirits, but when Lyrium was found, the other Evanuris proceeded to kill others while Mythal was merely concerned about the Dwarves/Elves/Spirits. Except that the giant lyrium mine we discover in Trespasser had a statue of Mythal and her side-kick Fen'Harel overlooking it, suggesting that she regarded it as her domain. So I don't think she had no interest in lyrium itself but rather used it to create her cities, including what eventually became the Golden City of Arlathan. The reason the throne in that city is empty is that it belonged to Mythal. It was also likely one of those structures that straddled the Fade and the material world, so was broken in two when the Veil went up. Alternatively it was always in the Fade and could only be reached by eluvian. It is said to have seven gates, which would be one for each of the original Evanuris. Dalish legends also say that only the "best" of the ancient elves went there. In other words the chosen of the gods. The Avvar also have a legend of the gods where the live atop a high mountain and eventually get so fed up with visitors that the Lady of the Skies (who I equate with Mythal) lifted it up where normal mortals could no longer reach it. Another thing, we know that Andruil was said to have a weapon that's speculated to be forged from Red Lyrium, or at least something containing the Blight, and now Solas has been revealed to be the owner of the Red Lyrium idol. Andruil was famed for her spear which was created when "She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold." That sounds more like it was created from ordinary lyrium. In the Dalish legends of the fight between Elgar'nan and the sun, the stars are created by the drops of its blood shed in the fight. This sounds more like a Titan, particularly since lyrium has a silvery white glow in its raw form. However, it is possible that Great Dragon blood could also have similar properties. However, later Andruil was said to have created weapons of darkness from the essence of the Void, so that may well have been red lyrium or whatever created the Blight.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on May 11, 2020 3:03:54 GMT
I’ve been thinking about what defines elf blood. Keirnan spots it right away in an Elvhen Inquisitor, and whatever it is seems to be is specific to The Fade. If Elves were originally spirits, then, theoretically, something gave them blood that pumped through their physical body. Could it have been Mythal?
I mean, Mythal literally called for Solas to have a body - that suggests she knows of a method. Could she have used her own blood? Perhaps she technically didn’t birth her so-called children, instead she simply gave them physical form through her blood. The other gods probably did the same once they became gods, but technically it’d still be Mythal’s blood. Quite literally the All - Mother, as Solas would say.
Which brings me to my next tin-foil point - Elvhen blood is characterized by it being made up of Mythal’s own blood. This may be what ends up defining, according to Solas, who survives the new world, that being Elves whose blood isn’t diluted to the point of being impure. My assumption is that Solas can sense it, which is why he points out Charter as being special, and possibly even Sera as well.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 11, 2020 13:20:21 GMT
My assumption is that Solas can sense it, which is why he points out Charter as being special, and possibly even Sera as well. I think in Sera's case she is too far removed, which is why Solas says he pities her. However, there has to be something still in the blood of modern elves that is different because the Crossroads could sense it. In Masked Empire it wasn't that Briala could see stuff that the other morals couldn't but that the environment of the Crossroads actively responded to her (something they couldn't really show in game). Briala was also unaffected by the strange ambience that afflicted the humans there, including the elf-blooded Michel So I will admit that however diluted modern elves are in their blood it still does mark them out as different from other races. Corypheus was also aware of this back when he was still the High Priest of Dumat. He told his servant he specifically needed elven blood for his ritual because of its greater potency. With regard to the origins of the races, in the original comic book The Silent Grove, Yavana claims that the blood of dragons is the blood of the world. Now they could have backtracked on this but she claims that in hunting down and killing the dragons mankind was destroying itself. So the theory above about dragon blood isn't as crazy as it sounds. Of course, the writers could have decided to swap Titans for dragons but there are some important attributes that dragons possess including an ability to resist the blight, if not indefinitely then for a very long time. So if spirits needed any sort of blood to become mortal beings, then may be it was dragon blood. Hence the most popular creature for the First of the People to change into. In fact when Flemeth is talking to Hawke in DA2, she actually says "How do you know I'm not a dragon?" The Arishok tells Alistair that all the ancient heroes of humankind owed their power to dragons. The Qunari definitely know more about this than has been let on but with all the hints about their draconic heritage it seems possible that they owe their origins to ancient humans who imbibed rather too much dragon blood, whether voluntary or forced. This made them more draconic and then was passed on to their descendants.
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Post by yogsothoth on May 11, 2020 22:53:57 GMT
Except that the giant lyrium mine we discover in Trespasser had a statue of Mythal and her side-kick Fen'Harel overlooking it, suggesting that she regarded it as her domain. Or the dwarves put up the statues to honor Mythal, like how they honor their ancestors who have done great deeds. I was referring to the latter. Though the star-weapon I think has interesting implications for another idea I had where the Stone = the Sun. My assumption is that Solas can sense it, which is why he points out Charter as being special, and possibly even Sera as well. However, there has to be something still in the blood of modern elves that is different because the Crossroads could sense it. In Masked Empire it wasn't that Briala could see stuff that the other morals couldn't but that the environment of the Crossroads actively responded to her (something they couldn't really show in game). Briala was also unaffected by the strange ambience that afflicted the humans there, including the elf-blooded Michel So I will admit that however diluted modern elves are in their blood it still does mark them out as different from other races. Corypheus was also aware of this back when he was still the High Priest of Dumat. He told his servant he specifically needed elven blood for his ritual because of its greater potency. Presumably there's still a touch of Spirit/Fade in elf blood. It would explain why hybrids with Elves always end up the other race, the other races blood essentially reinforcing reality and essentially being the dominant genes to the Elven/Fade recessive genes. I'd say their pointed ears point towards Qunari being Elves that took too much dragon blood, especially given the story of Ghilan'nain trying to get non-Evanuris elves to take the form of Dragons.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 12, 2020 11:09:29 GMT
I'd say their pointed ears point towards Qunari being Elves that took too much dragon blood, especially given the story of Ghilan'nain trying to get non-Evanuris elves to take the form of Dragons.
That's true. May be this gave her another idea, instead of shapeshifting into the illegal form, just pump them full of dragon blood and see what happens. From what we now know of her, it does seem the sort of thing she might do. What do you make of those strange creatures we see in some of the rock murals? Could these all in fact be showing the results of her experiments? That strange hybrid creature in the second row now definitely has an explanation, possibly the lizard man too. These tough guys in the top row could be proto Kossith, after all not all Qunari have horns so they could have come later as a result of further "refinements" to the original model.
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Post by colfoley on May 12, 2020 11:35:04 GMT
Playing through the storm coast today and Cassandra, bizarrely in a cave, dropped the nugget that the reason the waking sea was called such is that it's where the maker's wrath awakened. Given that I half wonder if there is a connection between the maker and titans that's an interesting nugget given that the storm coast is at least near the location of the only known Titan.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 12, 2020 15:15:59 GMT
Playing through the storm coast today and Cassandra, bizarrely in a cave, dropped the nugget that the reason the waking sea was called such is that it's where the maker's wrath awakened I have never heard her say that but if it is linked to a cave then its possible we were attacked and so I always miss it. It is one of the infuriating things about them having companions talk about places randomly when strolling around them and then not put in a repeat if you get involved in a battle just as it triggers. Same with banter between companions. Having strolled around the Hissing Wastes for ages just in the hope of getting something, I nearly tore my hair out when, just as it happened, a spider or something else would intervene and I'd have to ignore fighting, because they kept on speaking, in order to catch it as I knew I'd never get it again. Anyway, that was an odd bit of lore for Cassandra to come up with. Presumably it had to be quite ancient because there was no other reason for it to be associated with the Maker by the Chantry other than it was actually an area that Andraste was closely associated with and may even have grown up, so was this where she had her vision of the Maker? I still go back and forth about the identity of the Maker who spoke with Andraste (there could still be a real supreme overlord deity who will never be confirmed or not). I'm pretty sure it wasn't something she imagined but some creature of the Fade did make contact. It could have been a Titan speaking through the Fade. I'm more inclined to think it might have been Solas since he could legitimately claim to the Maker of the current world when he raised the Veil, imprisoning the gods who had earned his wrath, and encouraged Andraste to free her people from slavery. That is the thing about the commission from the Maker according to the Canticle of Shartan as opposed to the Chantry. According to the elven oral lore from which it was translated, Andraste saw Shartan as an equal in the eyes of the Maker who like her had been called by him to liberate his people. "Truly, the Maker has called you, just as He called me, to be a Light for your People.......we shall tear down the unassailable gates and set all slaves free." There is nothing there about spreading faith in the Maker as the primary objective; something I am convinced was added later by Drakon. Also, since Andraste is first said to have been visited by the Maker when she called on her own gods for assistance without success and then asked if anyone could help her, it does fit the fact that in Uthenera he would be able to hear her call through the Fade. His insistence that all other gods were false would also chime with his own view on the matter. Turning his back on mankind originally, when they turned to worshipping false gods, also sounds about right. The alternative would be Mythal, responding to her call. She could also legitimately claim to be responsible for much of the creation of the world (as claimed by the Dalish) and more specifically the Golden City. It might well be that she was bored with the constant adulation of her first born, the elves, and so decided to be a bit more inventive and concentrate of something more substantial than the Fade. I think this is less likely though. I'm sure Mythal was chiefly responsible for creating the world of the elves, that Solas so longs for, which spanned both the Fade and the Earth, but I don't think she was necessarily responsible for the Earth itself which was already there when the spirits of the Fade decided to cross over and inhabit it, the First of them being Mythal and Elgar'nan. That would more likely be credited to the Titans, who then grew angry and the invasion of their realm.
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Post by colfoley on May 12, 2020 19:22:05 GMT
Playing through the storm coast today and Cassandra, bizarrely in a cave, dropped the nugget that the reason the waking sea was called such is that it's where the maker's wrath awakened I have never heard her say that but if it is linked to a cave then its possible we were attacked and so I always miss it. It is one of the infuriating things about them having companions talk about places randomly when strolling around them and then not put in a repeat if you get involved in a battle just as it triggers. Same with banter between companions. Having strolled around the Hissing Wastes for ages just in the hope of getting something, I nearly tore my hair out when, just as it happened, a spider or something else would intervene and I'd have to ignore fighting, because they kept on speaking, in order to catch it as I knew I'd never get it again. Anyway, that was an odd bit of lore for Cassandra to come up with. Presumably it had to be quite ancient because there was no other reason for it to be associated with the Maker by the Chantry other than it was actually an area that Andraste was closely associated with and may even have grown up, so was this where she had her vision of the Maker? I still go back and forth about the identity of the Maker who spoke with Andraste (there could still be a real supreme overlord deity who will never be confirmed or not). I'm pretty sure it wasn't something she imagined but some creature of the Fade did make contact. It could have been a Titan speaking through the Fade. I'm more inclined to think it might have been Solas since he could legitimately claim to the Maker of the current world when he raised the Veil, imprisoning the gods who had earned his wrath, and encouraged Andraste to free her people from slavery. That is the thing about the commission from the Maker according to the Canticle of Shartan as opposed to the Chantry. According to the elven oral lore from which it was translated, Andraste saw Shartan as an equal in the eyes of the Maker who like her had been called by him to liberate his people. "Truly, the Maker has called you, just as He called me, to be a Light for your People.......we shall tear down the unassailable gates and set all slaves free." There is nothing there about spreading faith in the Maker as the primary objective; something I am convinced was added later by Drakon. Also, since Andraste is first said to have been visited by the Maker when she called on her own gods for assistance without success and then asked if anyone could help her, it does fit the fact that in Uthenera he would be able to hear her call through the Fade. His insistence that all other gods were false would also chime with his own view on the matter. Turning his back on mankind originally, when they turned to worshipping false gods, also sounds about right. The alternative would be Mythal, responding to her call. She could also legitimately claim to be responsible for much of the creation of the world (as claimed by the Dalish) and more specifically the Golden City. It might well be that she was bored with the constant adulation of her first born, the elves, and so decided to be a bit more inventive and concentrate of something more substantial than the Fade. I think this is less likely though. I'm sure Mythal was chiefly responsible for creating the world of the elves, that Solas so longs for, which spanned both the Fade and the Earth, but I don't think she was necessarily responsible for the Earth itself which was already there when the spirits of the Fade decided to cross over and inhabit it, the First of them being Mythal and Elgar'nan. That would more likely be credited to the Titans, who then grew angry and the invasion of their realm. yeah I agree. Whether or not the Maker is real I find it funny how many of the things the Chantry ascribes to him would be Solas. Actually wouldn't that be interesting if Mythal only died because something Solas put her up to.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 12, 2020 20:27:17 GMT
Actually wouldn't that be interesting if Mythal only died because something Solas put her up to. Well even if he wasn't directly responsible in that way, he obviously was no longer at her side when it happened. He definitely seems to have been a sort of bodyguard or trusted ally as he is constantly depicted either at her side or on guard outside her sanctuary. So why was he not there to defend her? I think he feels a fair bit of guilt and regret about that. Was it his choice to be absent or was he carrying out some mission on her behalf or did one of the other Evanuris trick him into leaving?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 13, 2020 18:50:06 GMT
Whether or not the Maker is real I find it funny how many of the things the Chantry ascribes to him would be Solas Another amusing thing to reflect on is the conversation between Sebastian and Merrill about their respective beliefs, which is so fully of irony in hindsight. Sebastian: So what do you believe, Merrill? Merrill: Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan. Merrill: When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us. Sebastian: We say the same of the Maker. Sebastian: Perhaps they're only different names for the same divine force that created the world. Merrill: The Maker wants you to be elves? Yes, Merrill, the Maker does want them to be elves or at least is going to replace them with elves. Then the elves who survive will remember what it is to be truly elvhen and hey presto, what do you know, the gods will return! I'm not entirely sure the Dalish are going to enjoy the experience though.
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Post by dayze on May 14, 2020 2:58:12 GMT
I'd say their pointed ears point towards Qunari being Elves that took too much dragon blood, especially given the story of Ghilan'nain trying to get non-Evanuris elves to take the form of Dragons.
That's true. May be this gave her another idea, instead of shapeshifting into the illegal form, just pump them full of dragon blood and see what happens. From what we now know of her, it does seem the sort of thing she might do. What do you make of those strange creatures we see in some of the rock murals? Could these all in fact be showing the results of her experiments? That strange hybrid creature in the second row now definitely has an explanation, possibly the lizard man too. These tough guys in the top row could be proto Kossith, after all not all Qunari have horns so they could have come later as a result of further "refinements" to the original model.
Maybe; you have the first warrior elf with a sword and shield followed by the next elf with no weapons, but a similar color scheme and "dots" except on it's legs as compared to the upper body dots of the reptile people. Than the Pegasus is similar with the dots as well. Though the first two pictures could possibly be interpreted as the one with the sword initiating a battle with the unarmed one if they were on the same mural or wall. Also by the time you get to the second elf and continuing on to the Pegasus the background designs vaguely remind me of ancient dwarven runes. Than we get what seem to be four kinds of Halla; one made by the Sun god....two unhappy looking Halla and two Halla of unusual color scheme and the one that leads has I guess a star chart? Both the Sun Halla and the Star-Chart one also have five legs instead of the usual four or even the six legs of the Pegasus. The final Halla; is the implication here that Elves evolved from Dwarves? Or is it some form of prophecy about the Halla guiding the Dalish and their families during hard times and that is why they are all slumped and unhappy? That and almost vaguely simian looking.
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