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Post by colfoley on Nov 18, 2020 4:06:12 GMT
While perhaps slightly unrelated reading @buckledemon's post did make me realize a potential bridge solution for this apparent contradiction.
What Lyrium actually does is it makes the Fade/ Veil 'maleable', it does not inherently weaken or strengthen it but it gives people a slight boost in their ability to affect and influence it. IE Templars/mages can use it to help them reinforce reality/ dispel magic while others can use it to help create their spells.
Meanwhile Red Lyrium is just...inherently destructive to those bonds?
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Post by rras1994 on Nov 18, 2020 13:01:48 GMT
While perhaps slightly unrelated reading @buckledemon's post did make me realize a potential bridge solution for this apparent contradiction. What Lyrium actually does is it makes the Fade/ Veil 'maleable', it does not inherently weaken or strengthen it but it gives people a slight boost in their ability to affect and influence it. IE Templars/mages can use it to help them reinforce reality/ dispel magic while others can use it to help create their spells. Meanwhile Red Lyrium is just...inherently destructive to those bonds? So Lyrium is kinda like a fuel, like oil or gas would be in real world equivalent which you can use as an energy source to sort of do what you want (blood would also be and I do find it interesting that to change the fade they decided to use physical beings life force as what’s required to change the fade which maybe is what drives spirits to want physicality?) So maybe the blighted red lyrium absorbs energy rather than gives it off, which maybe is why “The Void” is where the blight seems to have come from in Elhven myths and a void is just an absence of matter which then acts as vacuum sucking things in due to negative pressure gradient..... like red lyrium maybe?
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 18, 2020 18:23:50 GMT
Side note but this might also be tied to the Litany of Adralla, which allows non-mages to counter mind control from blood magic and demons. Unlike Seeker powers this has to be continually repeated to be effective. It is not a case of one recital and you have protection forever. Seekers make themselves Tranquil by willfully removing their connection to the Fade. We know it can be forcefully done, so I don't think it's that far fetched that someone, especially ones so dedicated to "emptying" themselves could do the same. Actually this seems even more far fetched to me. That someone can suppress their emotions to such an extent they appear tranquil is one thing but to say that someone can deliberately disconnect themselves from the Fade by sheer willpower is something else. Also why would this be a demonstration of faith to a faith spirit? Otherwise, if another Seeker is needed to attract the spirit to them, it is their faith that is the beacon and I am right in saying that effectively the spirit is being tricked into touching the mind of the "tranquil". Remember everything we know about true tranquil is that they effectively seem to forget their self before they are cut off from the Fade. If Karl could "forget" only moments before asking to be killed because he couldn't bare being tranquil again ("why are you looking at me like that?), how does the tranquil Seeker even remember why they are there, let alone that they have faith in the Maker? Nor would it be a powerful feeling of faith but simply a fact they are aware of. I do not think that Seekers are still possessed, as that probably would have been mentioned by Cassandra. Well she didn't know the ritual makes her tranquil until she read it in a book, so may be she doesn't know she is possessed either. Since all beings have an inherit connection to the Fade, this rejoining of the body with the Fade is responsible for their new, magic-like abilities. It does not grant full magehood, but it's just enough to give them a few "spells" e.g. burning Lyrium. It is not the quantity of spells but what they can do with them that seems odd to me because they so closely mimic blood magic spells that apparently are only possible if you have some sort of connection with a spirit (demon) of the Fade. Blood mages are not permanently possessed either but because of the connection required to perform these spells it makes them at greater risk of being possessed. So what I was suggesting is that the relationship between the Seeker and the spirit is exactly the same as the relationship between a blood mage and a demon. This being the case, it seems possible to use the connection with a faith or other benign spirit to protect a mage from possession, just as a Seeker is. Apparently the Seekers must have thought so too because they discovered the effect on mages through a failed Seeker rite on a mage. So if you are correct and a second Seeker is needed to ensure the spirit is attracted to the tranquil Seeker, perhaps the reason it failed was deliberate. Except that Ameridan would seem to have been there and it was entirely accidental but he immediately realised the dangerous abuse that could be made of the knowledge. They promised him it would never be used as a punishment. Something that has happened frequently down the years both in southern Thedas and Tevinter. If the Rite of Tranquility is based on the Seeker Initiation Ritual then it would seem that it is some external force that is making the person tranquil, not some sort of willpower on the part of the Seeker. I would need to check but I'm pretty sure Cassandra said to the Inquisitor that she was made tranquil during the ritual, not she made herself tranquil. I would also still like to know why faith spirits only seem attracted to people with faith in the Maker, particularly considering the writers say they will never prove his existence one way or the other. In which case, it should not be a case of the spirit only being attracted to a devotee of the Maker because that would validate his existence. If someone has a strong faith in the Avvar gods or the surviving Old Gods or the Dalish gods or even the pantheistic faith of Rivain, that person should also be attractive to a faith spirit. So in theory any of these religions could also have Seeker type initiates with similar powers. Nor would they need to be mages for the relationship to be established.
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Post by yogsothoth on Nov 19, 2020 2:23:48 GMT
Unlike Seeker powers this has to be continually repeated to be effective. It is not a case of one recital and you have protection forever. I was more so referring to the actual mechanics of the Litany rather than the process. That it can allow anyone, Spirit-possessed or otherwise, to disrupt blood magic or a demon's abilities might mean that it is similar to how Seekers' abilities work. This would just be down to how biology/anatomy works in Dragon Age. We know souls exist and seem to exist in the Fade. When people sleep, they transfer their consciousness to the Fade where they dream. I don't think it is that much of a leap that people who strain themselves as much as they would doing the Rite of the Seekers, which involves extremely long periods of fasting, praying and meditation, would allow the tether between the body and the soul to either snap or "give way" so the two separate. In the real world, extreme stress can result in many different health problems, or it could be like monks who work on having more precise control of their bodies through various exercises and meditation. I believe the process of willfully becoming Tranquil would be similar to one of the above. The Rite is described as being a test for the initiate's faith in the Maker to see them through the most difficult trials. Someone who is going through the trial is probably going to rely on their faith as much as they possibly can to get them through, and it's that devotion that draws the interest of a faith spirit. Reading through the codex entry again, it says "The rite was required to achieve the true peace that could draw a spirit of faith from the depths of the Fade. A difficult task, considering a Tranquil mind is all but invisible to these beings. The candidate must be pure. If the candidate proved worthy, the spirit would touch his mind... and he would be freed from Tranquility as well as made into a Seeker in truth. If he proved unworthy, Tranquility was permanent." So the initiate draws in the spirit, and if the spirit considers them worthy, it touches them and restores their mind, making them a Seeker. It's still unclear whether or not another Seeker is involved, but the Spirit of Compassion that became Cole managed to slip over into the real world, so a Spirit of Faith which is more powerful could probably do the same. I don't think Tranquils getting amnesia is really pertinent. That just seems to mostly be a bonus for the Lord Seeker so that only he remembers what the rite entails (since we're told that only the Lord Seeker knows the secret to reversing Tranquility). I would imagine that the book would be clear that Seekers are possessed rather than merely "Spirit-touched" and Cassandra read at least the entire section on reversing Tranquility, I don't think she would have kept that bit to herself. The only known alternate to making someone Tranquil is the Lyrium brand, which is just using the Titan's known ability of cutting off Fade access. None of the Seekers have the brand, and there's no other mention of how they become Tranquil beyond their months-long vigil. So either the Seekers or the faith spirit removes the brand after the Rite, or it is purely a willpower thing. I'm leaning towards the latter because I believe that if the Seekers were actually branded in order to become Tranquil, that would have been made more clear by Cassandra. Saying she was made Tranquil does not necessarily preclude that she made herself Tranquil. Becoming Tranquil does cause amnesia, so she would have just forgotten about becoming Tranquil and only remembering the faith spirit as her "faith realized" moment. Tranquility seems to be a mostly Andrastian thing, so I doubt there's many opportunities for spirits to interact with Tranquils in other societies.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 19, 2020 8:16:09 GMT
Tranquility seems to be a mostly Andrastian thing, so I doubt there's many opportunities for spirits to interact with Tranquils in other societies. With regard to this one, the Seekers must have got their ideas from somewhere. We know there are ancient humans societies, like the Avvar and the Rivaini that have a close connection with spirits and when the Seekers were first around many of the barbarian tribes believing in the Maker did so in conjunction with their current beliefs. Also given the aversion the current Templars have towards any magic involving spirits, only barely tolerating Spirit Healers and regarding spirits warriors as little different to abominations, it seems highly unlikely that the idea to use a faith spirit in this way came from the early Chantry stalwarts but rather the Seekers brought the ideas from their interactions with other spirit based faiths. Which is why I feel that whatever is possible for Seekers should also be possible for those faiths at least.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Nov 19, 2020 11:53:15 GMT
Tranquility seems to be a mostly Andrastian thing, so I doubt there's many opportunities for spirits to interact with Tranquils in other societies. With regard to this one, the Seekers must have got their ideas from somewhere. We know there are ancient humans societies, like the Avvar and the Rivaini that have a close connection with spirits and when the Seekers were first around many of the barbarian tribes believing in the Maker did so in conjunction with their current beliefs. Also given the aversion the current Templars have towards any magic involving spirits, only barely tolerating Spirit Healers and regarding spirits warriors as little different to abominations, it seems highly unlikely that the idea to use a faith spirit in this way came from the early Chantry stalwarts but rather the Seekers brought the ideas from their interactions with other spirit based faiths. Which is why I feel that whatever is possible for Seekers should also be possible for those faiths at least. While I agree theres no reason for a spirit of faith to be maker-faith exclusive, that doesn't necessarily mean that other groups practise tranquility rituals. Spirit healers, spirit warriors, avvar and rivaini all interact with spirits on friendly and willing terms. And by various different means. So I don't see why the only way to interact with one could be through the tranquility ritual. If the seekers expression of faith (a year of fasting, prayer, and isolation) draws the Spirit of Faith to them during the months of the final vigil (presumably some part of the ritual allows them to cross the veil), then it is probably because of the expression of faith this devotion and emptying of themselves of anything else represents - rather then being because being tranquil is a requirement of drawing a faith spirit. A different yet equally strong expression of faith from someone of a different culture would presumably also allow them to draw forward a spirit of faith.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Nov 19, 2020 12:27:27 GMT
The whole process reminds of the descriptions of spirits healer and warrior actually
Overall the seekers abilities make me think of a spirit warrior whose had to go through a particularly arduous trial to prove themselves worthy of one of the most powerful and hardest to contact spirits.
Since the old Inquisition invented the process i wonder if it was originally conceived by one of their mage members as a way to empower their holy warriors.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 19, 2020 15:17:48 GMT
A different yet equally strong expression of faith from someone of a different culture would presumably also allow them to draw forward a spirit of faith. This is what I was getting at really. Emptying yourself of emotion as an expression of faith might be one way of attracting a faith spirit because of your devotion but it seems unlikely that is the only way. After all, Wynne attracted a faith spirit that revived her and then co-existed with her but she was never tranquil. However she never acquired the same powers as a Seeker, only the protection from mind control and possession that I assume would come from already having a spirit connected with your mind. It is not the protective part of what the faith spirit bestows that puzzles me but the other bit that mimics powerful blood magic spells. However, since apparently a demon is required to produce those effects, then it would seem some part of having a spirit share is power with you. Which would mean that prolonged meditation is not an essential part of the process, just one way of attracting a faith spirit. Since the old Inquisition invented the process i wonder if it was originally conceived by one of their mage members as a way to empower their holy warriors. How they hit upon the ritual is the biggest part of the mystery to me. Did a Seeker undertake a long fast and meditation as part of their initiation anyway and then quite by accident one of them attracted a faith spirit that touched their mind? If so, how did they know it was a spirit and not simply the Maker granting them powers? Alternatively, if attracting a faith spirit was common knowledge among the ancient tribes, then originally it might have been part of normal religious practice not necessarily connected with the Maker. By that I mean receiving magical powers even though you aren't a mage. I remember that Ameridan referred to consulting with a spirit in one of his memories, which would suggest he had a positive relationship with a spirit, though not necessarily because he was a Seeker, but it seems as though the ritual had been around for some time and it was only the ritual failing and its consequent affect on the mage that he was witness to. I notice that Amund Skywatcher in multiplayer seems to have some degree of elemental magic even though he is a warrior, although this is different from the sort of assistance given to a spirit warrior, so it would seem that receiving magical powers from spirits of the Fade was more commonly found among the ancient tribes and the only reason they are unknown outside of the Seekers is possibly because of that group suppressing the information and the Chantry as a whole having a negative attitude towards interacting with spirits. It is part of the reason I find the Avvar so interesting and why I hope we will eventually be able to interact with, if not recruit, a Rivaini wise woman or Fog Dancer/Warrior, because they all seem to come from ancient traditions that were persecuted into the fringes of society. Whilst we haven't been told that the Fog People have a positive relationship with spirits, I suspect that they do.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 20, 2020 21:55:28 GMT
Had another crazy theory that may be the reason the Dalish are so wary of any magic involving spirits has nothing to do with their fear of possession but everything to do with their fear of Fen'Harel. After all, they believe that the Dread Wolf patrols the Beyond feasting upon souls of the dead, which I assumed was based on actual experience of mages encountering him there. Then it occurred to me that may be back in the time of the Dales, some of their mages attempted summoning and binding spirits and got the sort of reaction those Mortalitasi did in Tevinter Nights: "From this moment, should you ever bind a spirit, then your life is mine." However, not wanting to admit to angering the Dread Wolf, they simply made a general prohibition against doing any magic involving spirits because all spirits are dangerous.
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Post by xerrai on Nov 23, 2020 5:04:01 GMT
Had another crazy theory that may be the reason the Dalish are so wary of any magic involving spirits has nothing to do with their fear of possession but everything to do with their fear of Fen'Harel. After all, they believe that the Dread Wolf patrols the Beyond feasting upon souls of the dead, which I assumed was based on actual experience of mages encountering him there. Then it occurred to me that may be back in the time of the Dales, some of their mages attempted summoning and binding spirits and got the sort of reaction those Mortalitasi did in Tevinter Nights: "From this moment, should you ever bind a spirit, then your life is mine." However, not wanting to admit to angering the Dread Wolf, they simply made a general prohibition against doing any magic involving spirits because all spirits are dangerous. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Solas as not all that active in the fade when he put up the veil. To quote Solas, he was stuck in a "dark and dreamless sleep". Which I always took to mean that he was put into a dormant state even by dreaming standards. Unable to interact with or even explore the fade in a meaningful way until a lot of time passed. A dormancy that likely lasted several ages. He clearly became active in the fade later. His various stories from the qunari baker to Flemeth's cottage seem like enough evidence to that. As is Felassan's movement in the Dragon Age which clearly shows a certain amount of reorganization/action on his part. The question is 'when'? Based on the very incredibly limited evidence we have, I would place his fade activity starting in early Dragon Age or maybe the late Blessed Age. I feel like even though time is fluid in the fade, Solas needed actual time to research modern thedas, learn its language, etc. That being said, I wouldn't put it past one of his followers (elf or spirit) to try and scare off mages from binding spirits using his image. Or it could have a spirit who developed based on Dalish folklore of Fen'Harel, thus creating another "Dread Wolf" that prowled the fade. Or, if the Skyhold-lingering Regret is any indication, it could have been a demon that was formed from Solas's anti-binding sentiments.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 23, 2020 18:59:32 GMT
Based on the very incredibly limited evidence we have, I would place his fade activity starting in early Dragon Age or maybe the late Blessed Age. If he wasn't conscious most of the time, I wonder what made him reactivate in the Fade? Was there some sort of alarm attached to his orb that warned him when it was nearly charged? It had to have been at least 20 years before the events of DAI because Felassan was in circulation that long at least. It would seem his initial task probably revolved around information gathering and only later involved trying to get the eluvian network up and running again. Solas did say he had a long running relationship with the spirits of Wisdom and Purpose, so it may be there were other spirits of the Fade as you suggest who maintained the aura of the Dread Wolf in the Fade. I just feel that Dalish mages must have encountered something there or why would they specifically teach that Fen'Harel got rid of the other gods so he could have the Beyond to himself and then say he prowls there? The home of their gods was the Eternal City (that others know as the Golden City) and they believe he locked the Creators in there but if they had never encountered the Dread Wolf in the Fade, why would they assume he was there rather than somewhere in the Waking World.
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Post by xerrai on Nov 23, 2020 20:29:27 GMT
Based on the very incredibly limited evidence we have, I would place his fade activity starting in early Dragon Age or maybe the late Blessed Age. If he wasn't conscious most of the time, I wonder what made him reactivate in the Fade? Was there some sort of alarm attached to his orb that warned him when it was nearly charged? It had to have been at least 20 years before the events of DAI because Felassan was in circulation that long at least. It would seem his initial task probably revolved around information gathering and only later involved trying to get the eluvian network up and running again. Solas did say he had a long running relationship with the spirits of Wisdom and Purpose, so it may be there were other spirits of the Fade as you suggest who maintained the aura of the Dread Wolf in the Fade. I just feel that Dalish mages must have encountered something there or why would they specifically teach that Fen'Harel got rid of the other gods so he could have the Beyond to himself and then say he prowls there? The home of their gods was the Eternal City (that others know as the Golden City) and they believe he locked the Creators in there but if they had never encountered the Dread Wolf in the Fade, why would they assume he was there rather than somewhere in the Waking World. I have no idea if he set an alarm or anything, but maybe the after effects of putting up the veil simply wore off over time? Or perhaps it was tied to the orb like you said? Or perhaps his followers (or Flemeth?) did something to help him wake up? I can't really say for sure. As for what the Dalish saw. Well they didn't neccesarily have to see the real Dread Wolf. Ancient folklore often associated Fen'Harel with dreams, so it could simply be a matter of Dalish folklore taking after it, and the fade reflecting that belief. He didn't have to actually be there per se, the Dalish just had to see something resembling what they thought was him. Although for argument's sake. Let's say the Dalish did see 'something' in the fade that could not just be explained by spirit imitation of Dalish folktales. And that this 'something' was apparently dangerous enough to warrant thier anti-spirit policies. Under that assumption, I would theorize that they saw something similar or related to Sha Wyrd. A demon made from "powerful but undirected thoughts" that was found near the Black City. It was also noted to be something that was said not be 'of the mortal, nor the native fade'. Given Solas's presumed affiliation with the Black City, he may have unwittingly unleashed an 'echo' of his being near that location to act as a guard or powerful deterrent for any would-be fade travelers who tried t get close. That could easily include early Dalish dreamers trying to enter the Eternal City. Or...now that I am reading Sha Wyrd's codex entry with your original theory in mind. Maybe Solas was indeed acting the fade, but he was bound to the Black City's surrounding regions. Regions that, for all intents and purposes, is inaccessible to the majority of demons, spirits, dreamers, etc. and is noted to operate differently from the regular fade. All while Solas himself was barely aware of anything. If he was aware of anything at all. ( link)"Today we passed even further, far beyond any reach of man. The inverted glow of the Black City was always on the horizon of perception, but a path eludes, as always. Untraveled in memory, living or otherwise, there is a pull, and whispers abound. Something great is there. And away from this, always in peripheral, another mind, untethered. Tomorrow I will reach out with my full attention, and try to rescue him from his listing. Can someone else have come this far? The wonders we will share." But it should be noted this could just as easily be attributed to Sha Wyrd itself or wisp!Mythal roaming around given the age of the entry.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Nov 24, 2020 1:17:37 GMT
If we're looking for specific things to have potentially woken Solas ( rather then him just having recovered enough from making the veil)...
Perhaps he became alert when Maric woke the Mother of Dragons in 9:25 Dragon, 15 years before the events of The Masked Empire is 9:40 Dragon, and 16 years before the conclave and inquisition.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 24, 2020 18:50:33 GMT
Perhaps he became alert when Maric woke the Mother of Dragons in 9:25 Dragon, 15 years before the events of The Masked Empire is 9:40 Dragon, and 16 years before the conclave and inquisition. Then why was Felassan already active 5 years before that? If we assume that Felassan already slept out the majority of the intervening period, then something had to have awakened him. Since he was working for Solas, I would assume it was he who activated him. Yet there wasn't anything significant happening in the world at that time (that we know of). Ten years before Celene became Empress, the Architect was engaged in some dodgy activity, but if Solas was truly in a dark and dreamless sleep why would he be aware of any of this? If you leave Felassan out of the picture, then the discovery of the red lyrium idol may well have given Solas the necessary jolt to break him out of deep uthenera. We have a definite date for that 9:31 and a year later was have Morrigan messing around with the eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, which would probably have got him activating his agents when he realised the network had been compromised. It is Felassan awakening at least 12 years before that which has me puzzled. What reason would he have for emerging from uthenera if not at the command of the Dread Wolf? If it was simply someone intruding on the area of his refuge, then once dealt with he would surely have gone back to sleep. Yet he didn't. So he would definitely seem to have had a reason for staying awake. I'm probably overthinking it. I dare say when PW wrote Masked Empire he didn't really think about the implications of Felassan being awake that early if Solas really didn't revive from his dark and dreamless sleep until some 20 years later. Then again, perhaps Solas was just being lyrical and not literal about his sleep.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 25, 2020 4:58:26 GMT
Perhaps he became alert when Maric woke the Mother of Dragons in 9:25 Dragon, 15 years before the events of The Masked Empire is 9:40 Dragon, and 16 years before the conclave and inquisition. Then why was Felassan already active 5 years before that? If we assume that Felassan already slept out the majority of the intervening period, then something had to have awakened him. Since he was working for Solas, I would assume it was he who activated him. Yet there wasn't anything significant happening in the world at that time (that we know of). Ten years before Celene became Empress, the Architect was engaged in some dodgy activity, but if Solas was truly in a dark and dreamless sleep why would he be aware of any of this? If you leave Felassan out of the picture, then the discovery of the red lyrium idol may well have given Solas the necessary jolt to break him out of deep uthenera. We have a definite date for that 9:31 and a year later was have Morrigan messing around with the eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, which would probably have got him activating his agents when he realised the network had been compromised. It is Felassan awakening at least 12 years before that which has me puzzled. What reason would he have for emerging from uthenera if not at the command of the Dread Wolf? If it was simply someone intruding on the area of his refuge, then once dealt with he would surely have gone back to sleep. Yet he didn't. So he would definitely seem to have had a reason for staying awake. I'm probably overthinking it. I dare say when PW wrote Masked Empire he didn't really think about the implications of Felassan being awake that early if Solas really didn't revive from his dark and dreamless sleep until some 20 years later. Then again, perhaps Solas was just being lyrical and not literal about his sleep. I'd go with him not being literal when it comes to that.
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Post by ellehaym on Nov 26, 2020 21:31:17 GMT
This talk about Solas agents awakening before him reminds me of Sketch, which is a former companion of Leliana who now seems very sketchy given all the information we've received in the last few years. Codex entry for him is So he doesn't have the accent that most City or Dalish elf has. We later find out that some of Solas' agents in Tevinter Nights lacked the distinct city or Dalish accent and mannerisms. Sketch doesn't seem to care about the plight of Elves and seem to relate more to the plight of mages. Maybe thats because he doesn't seem modern Elves as part of "his people." Lastly, in Wot2, Leliana tries writes to Sketch Seems like she speculates that Sketch was just a guise and that he was placed in Orlais by an "old Empire" I'm not sure how they were awakened and I'd hope we learn on that later.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Nov 27, 2020 14:09:38 GMT
This talk about Solas agents awakening before him reminds me of Sketch, which is a former companion of Leliana who now seems very sketchy given all the information we've received in the last few years. Elan Ve'mal, the Elf who takes over from Adan in Skyhold has always struck me as very suspicious.
Inquisitor: Where did you receive your training?
Elan Ve'mal: I studied with Adan after he left the service of the King of Ferelden, well, after the King was no longer there to serve. Our college of associate tends to meet informally, I've since been fortunate enough to serve various heads of state. They are all as good as another, truth be told. My skills and contacts are better suited to more immediate need.
She's worked for numerous heads of state, all while maintaining a position that puts her completely beneath notice, making her perfectly placed to be utilised as a spy. At the same time, her work allows her to have numerous contacts across Thedas without it seeming overtly suspicious.
Inquisitor: I take it you're a city elf, not Dalish? Elan Ve'mal: It's... not a useful identifier. I am an Elf. I was raised away from the Dalish. No, I do not know their customs. Perhaps that was not immediately obvious. It's of little concern. I have skill enough to be evaluated by what I can do. My associates appreciate my work.
This is strange because saying City Elf would have been easier here, wouldn't it? Her insistence that she's an Elf comes across as somewhat defensive, as if she doesn't want to be considered kin to the City Elves that live in slums. At the same time, she seems to look down on the Dalish and their customs. It's very reminiscent of how Solas acts towards modern Elves, making me wonder if she's not another Ancient Elf or one of his agents. On the other hand, she could also be Qunari or part of some other faction, hence why she doesn't consider herself to be City or Dalish. Whatever the case, she then immediately seems to try to change the subject, as though she accidentally revealed too much.
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inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,664
gervaise21
10,783
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 27, 2020 19:06:32 GMT
This talk about Solas agents awakening before him reminds me of Sketch, which is a former companion of Leliana who now seems very sketchy given all the information we've received in the last few years. That entry in WoT2 does seem strange if we aren't meant to start questioning Sketch's background. It also seems odd that he turns up in Kirkwall during Act 2. What is he doing there? Then he is constantly pursued by different groups of assassins that we have to eliminate. He makes some cryptic remark about his reputation having caused the pursuit but this seems unlikely considering the only time anyone has heard of him previously was in the DLC. However, the assassins come from Denerim, Antiva (Crows?), the Qun, the Carta and Rivain. So has he been to all these places or upset groups connected with them? Unlikely for a simple apostate but very likely for an agent of Solas. I've also always been somewhat suspicious of Ariane from Wolf Hunt. She claims to be Dalish and that Morrigan stole a book about eluvians that had belonged to her clan for many years. However, Sabrae clan seemed initially unaware of the connection between the eluvian we find in the Dalish origin and the ancient elves, or it was something only known to the Keeper Marethari and her First Merrill. The Dalish mainly base their knowledge on an oral tradition and things they are able to find in old ruins. So where did the book come from? It seems hard to believe it was just lying around somewhere waiting to be found by Ariane's clan. However, if she had been an agent with the book, who joined a clan in order to use them, much as Felassan did, to try and find eluvians and get them working again, then that could better explain how the clan had the book. Mind you, how did Morrigan know they had it? I thought that perhaps Flemeth might have given the book to the clan for safekeeping and told Morrigan she had done so but then why would Morrigan want to use the network in that case if she was trying to hide from Flemeth? Still why did Ariane think to go first to Flemeth's hut when trying to find traces of Morrigan? So if not connected with Solas, I think at least she was connected with Flemeth in some way.
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11247
0
1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Buckeldemon on Nov 27, 2020 22:33:28 GMT
That entry in WoT2 does seem strange if we aren't meant to start questioning Sketch's background. It also seems odd that he turns up in Kirkwall during Act 2. What is he doing there? Then he is constantly pursued by different groups of assassins that we have to eliminate. He makes some cryptic remark about his reputation having caused the pursuit but this seems unlikely considering the only time anyone has heard of him previously was in the DLC. I suppose he's mostly just there as a gag... A cameo to break the Fourth Wall and says something to the effect "My reputation precludes me. Better stay away from storytelles." That second part seems to refer to his experience with Leliana, as well as taking a shot at Varric. I've also always been somewhat suspicious of Ariane from Wolf Hunt. She claims to be Dalish and that Morrigan stole a book about eluvians that had belonged to her clan for many years. However, Sabrae clan seemed initially unaware of the connection between the eluvian we find in the Dalish origin and the ancient elves, or it was something only known to the Keeper Marethari and her First Merrill. The Dalish mainly base their knowledge on an oral tradition and things they are able to find in old ruins. So where did the book come from? It seems hard to believe it was just lying around somewhere waiting to be found by Ariane's clan. However, if she had been an agent with the book, who joined a clan in order to use them, much as Felassan did, to try and find eluvians and get them working again, then that could better explain how the clan had the book. Her dialogue in the beginning of Witch Hunt seems a bit weird, if the wiki is accurate. On one hand, she says that her clan guarded this book since the days of Arlathan. Later she says and elven mage 'stole' it from the circle when fleeing.
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1033
0
Apr 25, 2024 11:04:50 GMT
31,222
colfoley
16,559
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 27, 2020 23:16:11 GMT
I've been musing more on the void this morning and this really sent me down a rabbit hole.
Now the Void is...a thing...that has been mentioned a couple of times. And given its connection and some of the things it has done it is implied, well at least my read, to be 'opposite' of the Fade. I have also associated it with the Deep Roads. Now the Deep Roads still have beenleft largely unexplored and full of wonders, according to what we have seen and from Valta's dialogue at the end of the Descent...but where is it and what is it?
I also had a theory a little while ago where I was musing on a change to my theory on Red Lyrium and where its ultimate origin was, I have theorized that it was either weaponized lyrium by the Elves or Lyrium from an enraged Titan because of the connection between red and the emotion of anger etc. Bit Star Wars maybe...
But now I wonder if Red Lyrium is not from an enraged Titan but from a dead/ necrotic Titan. And since 'death' operates differently for the higher beings of Thedas then it does for us mere 'mortals', or at least it does for Evanuris/ spirits...I think the same rule could apply to the Titans. So the Titan(s) in question are dead but either A. still able to produce Red Lyrium or B. it produced just enough Red Lyrium to make the Idol/ start the exposure Andruil and the Ancient Elvhen had to it, which then led to all of our problems.
The fun part is the Titan we ran into in Descent makes this theory really juicy. Because when we got to the Wellspring of an alive/ dormant Titan, everything was bright as heck with a blue lyrium guardian in the center of it. This is now theoriezed or directly referenced as to being why the Dwarves referred to 'falling into the sky' and all that fun stuff. But what if a 'dead' Titan's Well Spring instead of being just bright and light and stuff what if it is dark, dead, black, and with no external light source...remember the Well Spring was 'inside'a Titan it could look like easily an bottomless, black, void of nothing. Not a well spring. All except for a 'Red Lyrium' guardian at the heart, sufusing the entire area with an eerie red glow, which then reminded me of some of the artwork we have already seen for the next Dragon Age...
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Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Nov 28, 2020 6:14:32 GMT
I've also always been somewhat suspicious of Ariane from Wolf Hunt. She claims to be Dalish and that Morrigan stole a book about eluvians that had belonged to her clan for many years. However, Sabrae clan seemed initially unaware of the connection between the eluvian we find in the Dalish origin and the ancient elves, or it was something only known to the Keeper Marethari and her First Merrill. The Dalish mainly base their knowledge on an oral tradition and things they are able to find in old ruins. So where did the book come from? It seems hard to believe it was just lying around somewhere waiting to be found by Ariane's clan. However, if she had been an agent with the book, who joined a clan in order to use them, much as Felassan did, to try and find eluvians and get them working again, then that could better explain how the clan had the book. Not all Dalish have access to the same knowledge though. Some clans are more fluent in Elven than others, have Keepers capable of shapeshifting or have retained more "accurate" knowledge of their history. That's why most clans try to meet up every ten years or so to share their knowledge and knew discoveries with one another.
Until Masked Empire, it seems that most clans were generally unaware of the existence of Eluvians or otherwise considered them forgotten relics that were best left alone, especially after what happened to Tamlen began to circulated among the other clans (Ariane and Zathrian's clan both mention him).
(But I'll take any excuse to replay Witch Hunt to check if her story holds up)
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,664
gervaise21
10,783
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 28, 2020 8:53:23 GMT
The fun part is the Titan we ran into in Descent makes this theory really juicy. Because when we got to the Wellspring of an alive/ dormant Titan, everything was bright as heck with a blue lyrium guardian in the center of it. This is now theoriezed or directly referenced as to being why the Dwarves referred to 'falling into the sky' and all that fun stuff. But what if a 'dead' Titan's Well Spring instead of being just bright and light and stuff what if it is dark, dead, black, and with no external light source...remember the Well Spring was 'inside'a Titan it could look like easily an bottomless, black, void of nothing. Not a well spring. All except for a 'Red Lyrium' guardian at the heart, sufusing the entire area with an eerie red glow, which then reminded me of some of the artwork we have already seen for the next Dragon Age... This seems a sound theory. It also seems likely that what the Evanuris battled were the lyrium guardians rather than the titans directly but after Mythal caused the titans to go into slumber, ultimately they farmed it for lyrium too vigorously which corrupted/killed it. I did find it strange that they should refer to the interior of the titan as the Wellspring if it was not meant to be significant, considering that is how Andraste refers to the Maker. So if the opposite of the Wellspring is the Void, then it is likely to be the interior of a corrupted titan. Hence the Forgotten Ones said to be hiding out there and Andruil going crazy after entering it. It would also explain the differing sources of magical power with the Arch-demon and blighted Magisters drawing their power from their connection with a corrupted titan. I also feel that the City in the Fade is not actually there but there is simply a gateway to it that you can use to get there or may be it is nothing more than a reflection of the actual city deep within the earth. Hence it appearing Golden for so long because that is how the various races imagined the home of their gods to be and for the elves at least at one time that was true but once the Magister "broke in" they discovered its true corrupted state and the illusion in the Fade was broken. When I saw the Wellspring in the Descent I immediately thought of elven tree cities and then we discover in Trespasser that Mythal actually had a major influence in the Deep Roads (plus she is known for her cities), so it seemed likely to me that the Eternal City/Arlathan was found in interior of a titan. Do you suppose when Solas sealed the Evanuris away it was inside a corrupted titan?
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1033
0
Apr 25, 2024 11:04:50 GMT
31,222
colfoley
16,559
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 28, 2020 9:07:51 GMT
The fun part is the Titan we ran into in Descent makes this theory really juicy. Because when we got to the Wellspring of an alive/ dormant Titan, everything was bright as heck with a blue lyrium guardian in the center of it. This is now theoriezed or directly referenced as to being why the Dwarves referred to 'falling into the sky' and all that fun stuff. But what if a 'dead' Titan's Well Spring instead of being just bright and light and stuff what if it is dark, dead, black, and with no external light source...remember the Well Spring was 'inside'a Titan it could look like easily an bottomless, black, void of nothing. Not a well spring. All except for a 'Red Lyrium' guardian at the heart, sufusing the entire area with an eerie red glow, which then reminded me of some of the artwork we have already seen for the next Dragon Age... This seems a sound theory. It also seems likely that what the Evanuris battled were the lyrium guardians rather than the titans directly but after Mythal caused the titans to go into slumber, ultimately they farmed it for lyrium too vigorously which corrupted/killed it. I did find it strange that they should refer to the interior of the titan as the Wellspring if it was not meant to be significant, considering that is how Andraste refers to the Maker. So if the opposite of the Wellspring is the Void, then it is likely to be the interior of a corrupted titan. Hence the Forgotten Ones said to be hiding out there and Andruil going crazy after entering it. It would also explain the differing sources of magical power with the Arch-demon and blighted Magisters drawing their power from their connection with a corrupted titan. I also feel that the City in the Fade is not actually there but there is simply a gateway to it that you can use to get there or may be it is nothing more than a reflection of the actual city deep within the earth. Hence it appearing Golden for so long because that is how the various races imagined the home of their gods to be and for the elves at least at one time that was true but once the Magister "broke in" they discovered its true corrupted state and the illusion in the Fade was broken. When I saw the Wellspring in the Descent I immediately thought of elven tree cities and then we discover in Trespasser that Mythal actually had a major influence in the Deep Roads (plus she is known for her cities), so it seemed likely to me that the Eternal City/Arlathan was found in interior of a titan. Do you suppose when Solas sealed the Evanuris away it was inside a corrupted titan? i have presumed that Solas sent them into the Fade in Arlathan which was blighted.
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inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,664
gervaise21
10,783
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 28, 2020 10:15:09 GMT
i have presumed that Solas sent them into the Fade in Arlathan which was blighted. The problem I have is that if they were imprisoned in the Eternal/Golden City then surely when the Magisters broke in they escaped? Besides Corypheus said they found nothing there but "dead whispers". Which is why I feel that what we see in the Fade is not the real city but an illusion or it is merely a gateway to it. So the bit that the Magisters entered was like a lobby area, which was trapped in some way so if someone got in they would immediately be sent elsewhere so they didn't threaten the integrity of his prison. Alternatively, whilst they thought they were entering the Golden City in the Fade, in fact since that was their aim, they were taken wherever the Golden City really was. Of course, Solas says he created the Veil in order to entrap the Evanuris within the Fade but there is clearly more to it than that considering we were able to walk in the Fade physically, with apparently no ill effects. I have no doubt that the Golden City (wherever it is located) is also the Eternal City of the elven gods. I am not sure whether Arlathan is the same thing. Dalish legend says that only the best of the elves went there, which suggests that the Evanuris controlled who was allowed in. I also wonder if each domain of the gods had a capital that was also a precinct of Arlathan. So the city in Arlathan Forest was both an enclave of Andruil worshipers (according to Tevinter Nights it was her domain) but also a part of Arlathan, may be linked to a central hub by eluvian. This would fit with something that Cole says about beings that are trapped behind a mirror, so if the Veil cut off an eluvian gateway from the rest of the network, that would have trapped the Evanuris even though the rest of the network is able to be used.
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1130
0
Apr 16, 2024 15:03:09 GMT
431
wickedcool
659
Aug 22, 2016 13:08:32 GMT
August 2016
wickedcool
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Post by wickedcool on Nov 28, 2020 19:46:01 GMT
Crazy theory with nothing to back it-some of the statues In inquisition (hinterlands) are related to a certain story in tevinter nights. These statues seem to predate dao and are very bizarre. Parts of that 1 story seems to predate dao
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