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Post by dayze on Apr 15, 2021 3:18:15 GMT
Possible Theory:
Malvernis could have been an old god baby from an earlier "pantheon"......I get the idea things tend to work in cycles in dragon age and similar spirits can be "born" more or less.
Mainly what makes me think this is that he transforms into a spectral dragon something like how the arch demon/old gods start out as dragons and posse other entities. Malvernis could have been taking on the "whisp" form of an ancient god that isn't relevant in the current pantheons of thedas.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 17, 2021 13:11:24 GMT
Going off at a slight tangent, I was looking up something about the Qunari in WoT1, because of our discussion about them on the Schmooples Den thread, and was struck by the following:
"because the Qunari have practiced selective breeding for thousands of years, no one can be certain of what the original kossith looked like."
Now this strikes me as odd. Whilst we have never been told categorically what era that Koslun lived in, we do know that kossith arrived on the coast of the Korcari Wilds around -410 and established a colony there. Now even assuming they were fleeing the domination of the Qun over their former culture, that only puts them 1200 years ago, hardly "thousands" of years. So if the Qun had been selective breeding for thousands of years, where were these kossith living that they hadn't been caught up in it? Plus it is widely thought in world that it was likely females from this colony that became the first ogre broodmothers. Of course this may be incorrect but nevertheless the ogres are similar enough in appearance to modern day Qunari that it does seem logical to assume this. However, if the Qun have been selectively breeding their race for thousands of years then that should not be the case because the kossith in the south should have been far removed from the Qunari breeding stock.
As mentioned on the other thread, I also find it odd that the Qun should refer to the renegades from their religion as Tal-Vashoth, considering that according to WoT, Tal-Vashoth is the name that the renegades give to themselves, meaning "True Grey Ones". The Tal-Vashoth clearly see themselves as being true representatives of their race. So why would the Qun also call them by this name? Surely they would use a derogatory term for those who have left the Qun. Since Sten regards them as fiends, why not the Qunari name for "monster" or simply "traitor"? The only answer I can come up with is that they are being ironic in calling them by the same name as the renegades call themselves. However, why would this term also be used for any race that has abandoned the Qun? To be honest I'm surprised they don't refer to them as "qalaba", which is apparently a qunari animal known for its stupidity or even "qalaba'bas", stupid thing.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 18, 2021 0:13:15 GMT
Going off at a slight tangent, I was looking up something about the Qunari in WoT1, because of our discussion about them on the Schmooples Den thread, and was struck by the following: "because the Qunari have practiced selective breeding for thousands of years, no one can be certain of what the original kossith looked like." Now this strikes me as odd. Whilst we have never been told categorically what era that Koslun lived in, we do know that kossith arrived on the coast of the Korcari Wilds around -410 and established a colony there. Now even assuming they were fleeing the domination of the Qun over their former culture, that only puts them 1200 years ago, hardly "thousands" of years. So if the Qun had been selective breeding for thousands of years, where were these kossith living that they hadn't been caught up in it? Plus it is widely thought in world that it was likely females from this colony that became the first ogre broodmothers. Of course this may be incorrect but nevertheless the ogres are similar enough in appearance to modern day Qunari that it does seem logical to assume this. However, if the Qun have been selectively breeding their race for thousands of years then that should not be the case because the kossith in the south should have been far removed from the Qunari breeding stock. As mentioned on the other thread, I also find it odd that the Qun should refer to the renegades from their religion as Tal-Vashoth, considering that according to WoT, Tal-Vashoth is the name that the renegades give to themselves, meaning "True Grey Ones". The Tal-Vashoth clearly see themselves as being true representatives of their race. So why would the Qun also call them by this name? Surely they would use a derogatory term for those who have left the Qun. Since Sten regards them as fiends, why not the Qunari name for "monster" or simply "traitor"? The only answer I can come up with is that they are being ironic in calling them by the same name as the renegades call themselves. However, why would this term also be used for any race that has abandoned the Qun? To be honest I'm surprised they don't refer to them as "qalaba", which is apparently a qunari animal known for its stupidity or even "qalaba'bas", stupid thing. I haven't read WoT and don't intend to, but the Qun could have existed for "thousands of years" without necessarily being the dominant force in their home country for all that time. Unless WoT or some lore document somewhere says otherwise, we don't even know for sure if they are the dominant force in their place of origin now. They might have originally come to Par Vollen because they were driven out of their homeland. Or, another simple explanation, who says the Kossith who settled in the Korcari wilds had escaped the effects of the "selective breeding"? Just because they referred to themselves as Kossith doesn't mean they were visibly any different than Qunari are. They may have simply been reclaiming the name as an act of defiance against the authoritative state they fled. It doesn't take that many generations of "selective breeding" to radically alter the appearance of a population. Humans live longer so the effects aren't as easy to observe, but look at dog breeds. People created (and still do create) dog breeds as a business or even just a hobby. One person could, through selective breeding, create several types of wildly different-looking dogs in one human lifetime. And what does it mean to be "original Kossith" anyway? In the context of our own reality, it's a nonsensical phrase. You can't have an "original human", we evolved over millions of years into what we know ourselves as now, and the lines between us and our predecessors (if indeed there are any) are blurry at best. The only way there can be any "original" Kossith is if they were created spontaneously by magic, which is definitely possible in the context of Thedas, but we don't know if that is what happened.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Apr 19, 2021 14:51:33 GMT
Going off at a slight tangent, I was looking up something about the Qunari in WoT1, because of our discussion about them on the Schmooples Den thread, and was struck by the following: "because the Qunari have practiced selective breeding for thousands of years, no one can be certain of what the original kossith looked like." Now this strikes me as odd. Whilst we have never been told categorically what era that Koslun lived in, we do know that kossith arrived on the coast of the Korcari Wilds around -410 and established a colony there. Now even assuming they were fleeing the domination of the Qun over their former culture, that only puts them 1200 years ago, hardly "thousands" of years. So if the Qun had been selective breeding for thousands of years, where were these kossith living that they hadn't been caught up in it? Plus it is widely thought in world that it was likely females from this colony that became the first ogre broodmothers. Of course this may be incorrect but nevertheless the ogres are similar enough in appearance to modern day Qunari that it does seem logical to assume this. However, if the Qun have been selectively breeding their race for thousands of years then that should not be the case because the kossith in the south should have been far removed from the Qunari breeding stock. As mentioned on the other thread, I also find it odd that the Qun should refer to the renegades from their religion as Tal-Vashoth, considering that according to WoT, Tal-Vashoth is the name that the renegades give to themselves, meaning "True Grey Ones". The Tal-Vashoth clearly see themselves as being true representatives of their race. So why would the Qun also call them by this name? Surely they would use a derogatory term for those who have left the Qun. Since Sten regards them as fiends, why not the Qunari name for "monster" or simply "traitor"? The only answer I can come up with is that they are being ironic in calling them by the same name as the renegades call themselves. However, why would this term also be used for any race that has abandoned the Qun? To be honest I'm surprised they don't refer to them as "qalaba", which is apparently a qunari animal known for its stupidity or even "qalaba'bas", stupid thing. The Qunari aren't from Par Vollen, that's the first place they conquered in the Steel Age when they crossed the Northern ocean (from an unnamed place that was somehow "destroyed" forcing their exile). The Qunari don't talk about that place... For all we know, the Tal-Vashoth still rule that land and just kicked out the Qunari, a fantasy take on religious persecution...
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 19, 2021 18:15:46 GMT
The Qunari aren't from Par Vollen, that's the first place they conquered in the Steel Age when they crossed the Northern ocean (from an unnamed place that was somehow "destroyed" forcing their exile). The Qunari don't talk about that place... For all we know, the Tal-Vashoth still rule that land and just kicked out the Qunari, a fantasy take on religious persecution... I know they aren't from Par Vollen but that is why the comment about "thousands of years of selective breeding" doesn't make sense. If they had been doing it successfully for thousands of years then the majority of the population wherever they came from should be Qunari. If they had to flee persecution, then it was only after several thousands of years of apparently being okay. That seems odd. Also there are those Kossith back in -410 Ancient. Were they fleeing the Qunari or were they just an expeditionary group? So if the Qunari were fleeing anyone, I would have thought it was the original Kossith race rather than renegades from their own breeding programme, which is what Tal-Vashoth are. Presumably the Kossith must also have their own language, since Qunlat was (allegedly) developed by the Qun. There are definitely a lot of unanswered questions about the origins of the Qunari and I'm hoping that we may learn more next game, together with the origins of the human race. Is it merely coincidence that both groups came from across the sea and landed on Par Vollen?
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Post by dayze on Apr 19, 2021 18:43:15 GMT
Going off at a slight tangent, I was looking up something about the Qunari in WoT1, because of our discussion about them on the Schmooples Den thread, and was struck by the following: "because the Qunari have practiced selective breeding for thousands of years, no one can be certain of what the original kossith looked like." Now this strikes me as odd. Whilst we have never been told categorically what era that Koslun lived in, we do know that kossith arrived on the coast of the Korcari Wilds around -410 and established a colony there. Now even assuming they were fleeing the domination of the Qun over their former culture, that only puts them 1200 years ago, hardly "thousands" of years. So if the Qun had been selective breeding for thousands of years, where were these kossith living that they hadn't been caught up in it? Plus it is widely thought in world that it was likely females from this colony that became the first ogre broodmothers. Of course this may be incorrect but nevertheless the ogres are similar enough in appearance to modern day Qunari that it does seem logical to assume this. However, if the Qun have been selectively breeding their race for thousands of years then that should not be the case because the kossith in the south should have been far removed from the Qunari breeding stock. As mentioned on the other thread, I also find it odd that the Qun should refer to the renegades from their religion as Tal-Vashoth, considering that according to WoT, Tal-Vashoth is the name that the renegades give to themselves, meaning "True Grey Ones". The Tal-Vashoth clearly see themselves as being true representatives of their race. So why would the Qun also call them by this name? Surely they would use a derogatory term for those who have left the Qun. Since Sten regards them as fiends, why not the Qunari name for "monster" or simply "traitor"? The only answer I can come up with is that they are being ironic in calling them by the same name as the renegades call themselves. However, why would this term also be used for any race that has abandoned the Qun? To be honest I'm surprised they don't refer to them as "qalaba", which is apparently a qunari animal known for its stupidity or even "qalaba'bas", stupid thing. Maybe the Qunari look at anyone leaving the Qun as essentially the same thing; kind of like how Sten refers to the elves as people who excel at poverty or some such thing. The lack of respect is so extreme that simply "not" being Qunari is insult enough.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Apr 19, 2021 18:56:46 GMT
The Qunari aren't from Par Vollen, that's the first place they conquered in the Steel Age when they crossed the Northern ocean (from an unnamed place that was somehow "destroyed" forcing their exile). The Qunari don't talk about that place... For all we know, the Tal-Vashoth still rule that land and just kicked out the Qunari, a fantasy take on religious persecution... I know they aren't from Par Vollen but that is why the comment about "thousands of years of selective breeding" doesn't make sense. If they had been doing it successfully for thousands of years then the majority of the population wherever they came from should be Qunari. If they had to flee persecution, then it was only after several thousands of years of apparently being okay. That seems odd. Also there are those Kossith back in -410 Ancient. Were they fleeing the Qunari or were they just an expeditionary group? So if the Qunari were fleeing anyone, I would have thought it was the original Kossith race rather than renegades from their own breeding programme, which is what Tal-Vashoth are. Presumably the Kossith must also have their own language, since Qunlat was (allegedly) developed by the Qun. There are definitely a lot of unanswered questions about the origins of the Qunari and I'm hoping that we may learn more next game, together with the origins of the human race. Is it merely coincidence that both groups came from across the sea and landed on Par Vollen? It's possible the selective breading was started before the Qun was a thing, they just kept at it. DAI and some pre-game release comics have a few passing lines that suggest they were a slave race created by mages. The Kossith might have been the pre-slave race used.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2021 7:22:11 GMT
DAI and some pre-game release comics have a few passing lines that suggest they were a slave race created by mages. The Kossith might have been the pre-slave race used. There is also of course the possibility that the Kossith were the slave race created from another race. It all depends on how you interpret Kieran's words and how far back in history this occurred. If we are talking about a race that has existed "for thousands of years", then that could put it back in the era of the Evanuris. I'd also like to know more about Koslun and when exactly he lived. When he traveled the world studying different societies was this on the Continent of Thedas or elsewhere? Since he developed his philosophy as a way of life that can be applicable to any race, was he in fact from the race that first adopted it, or did he simply have his first success in convincing that race to abandon their own religion for his ideas?
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on May 4, 2021 9:34:00 GMT
More Andraste stuff (Why am I hopelessly obsessed with her?) but going over her lineage according to the Chantry: Her father was a Man called Elderath, an Alamarri chieftain (king?) of where northern Ferelden is. Her mother was a Ciriane Woman called Brona, from modern day Orlais. A half sister called Halliserre, who was born out of Elderath's advisor on Alchemy Matters ( Mythal?) and spoke of the Old Gods ( The Dark Ritual?) To me, the name Elderath is very similar to Elgar'nan, Mythal's husband in the Elven Pantheon. Assuming Brona was an invention on the part of Drakon and Orlais when the chantry was founded (and to give Orlais a deeper connection to the Prophet by making her their "mother") that would mean Andraste and Halisherre were at the very least direct sisters, possibly twins? It's interesting to think about, in the Elven Pantheon both Elgar'nan and Mythal had two daughters, one called Sylaise and the other Andruil, and unlike the other Evanuris, Sylaise seems to be wearing a crown here in her elven depiction and looks like she has hair unlike the others. Now who else do we know that fits those descriptions?
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 4, 2021 15:02:04 GMT
I really dislike the notion of Mythal being the mastermind behind, or even just involved in every important event that ever happened in history. To me, it makes the setting smaller and less rich, not better.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 4, 2021 17:11:26 GMT
Her mother was a Ciriane Woman called Brona, from modern day Orlais. Assuming Brona was an invention on the part of Drakon and Orlais when the chantry was founded This seems unlikely since we actually get to meet Brona in the Gauntlet in DAO. What I found interesting at the time was that she intimated she had a dream when Andraste was in the womb that she would die through betrayal. This is was her riddle: "Echoes from a shadow realm; whispers of things yet to come. Thoughts strange sister dwells in night, is swept away by dawning light." When you answer "dreams", she continues: "A dream came upon me as my daughter slumbered beneath my heart; it told of her life and her betrayal and death. I am sorrow and regret. I am a mother weeping bitter tears for a daughter she could not save." This is something that has never been mentioned in Chantry lore so it sounded like something genuinely from the memories of her mother's spirit or a spirit connected with her mother. However, it was curious that her mother seemed to have had an insight into her daughter's future life which did prove true. So was Brona's sorrow and regret because she dismissed the premonition as false and never told Andraste of the danger? Or did her mother not see who would betray Andraste but only that she would be. Did she think it would be Hallisare's mother who would be the betrayer and that is why she had her exiled (or killed). Was Brona responsible for the death of Hallisare, perhaps as a result of doing some sort of deal with a demon in the hope of protecting her daughter? Then there is Brona's sword. This was given to Andraste by her mother and then passed on to Shartan after he saved her at the Battle of Valarian Fields. Did Brona give Andraste the sword as an artifact to protect her and Andraste gave it away? Had Brona in fact told Andraste she would one day be betrayed and she believed her sacrifice would be necessary to free the slaves (which did in fact prove to be the case at least whilst Hessarian lived)? Was the sword named Glandivalis by Shartan, as the Sister Petrine's story maintains, or was the sword already called Glandivalis, as seems to be the case in the Canticle of Shartan that comes from Dalish oral tradition. If the latter then it would seem Andraste possessed an elven sword, called "Believer" (or possibly Faithful), based off the translation of the ancient elven text where the word Glandival is used, which belonged to her mother, who originally came from southern Orlais, very close to what became the Dales. Then the scholars claim that the Canticle of Shartan contains elements of an old elven folktale about a trickster warrior who fought against tyrants. I'm pretty sure the writers have to be hinting at something in all that.
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Post by xerrai on May 4, 2021 17:28:48 GMT
I really dislike the notion of Mythal being the mastermind behind, or even just involved in every important event that ever happened in history. To me, it makes the setting smaller and less rich, not better. Ditto. That being said, her popping up occasionally and semi-unintentionally affecting history would be acceptable. For example, if she was approached by early Seekers to help refine their ritual in exchange for a heavy price would be an interesting tidbit. In all likelihood she didn't know how large they would become or even if they would become tied to Andrastianism at all, much less Drakon's version of it given his hard stance on magic and which variations of it would be allowed. At most she viewed it as a possibility, but the rest of it was mostly left up to the whims of chance and history. In the end I think he series would be better served if Mythal was only important to historical events that were directly tied to the preservation of ancient things. Like high dragons. I think we can all reasonably assume their continued existence can probably be tied to Yavana and her secret dragon sanctuary to help replenish their dwindling population. Using the Theiran family to preserve the dragon blood would be another decent example, as his rise to power and royalty can easily be reasoned to be a means to encourage the preservation of a continued bloodline. But construing her as the mastermind behind Andraste's rebellion? Or as the manipulator of early Nevarrans into developing their necromantic ways? Or somehow forcing the early kossith to come to Thedas? That seems like too much. In the end I think Flemythal would be better served as being exactly what she described herself in DAI. A person who primarily "nudges" history as an occasional occurrence as opposed to constantly "shoving" it in a design she likes. A planner who adapts to how the world stage sets itself as opposed to being the one who secretly dictates it from the shadows.
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 276 Likes: 238
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on May 4, 2021 21:16:33 GMT
I really dislike the notion of Mythal being the mastermind behind, or even just involved in every important event that ever happened in history. To me, it makes the setting smaller and less rich, not better. Ditto. That being said, her popping up occasionally and semi-unintentionally affecting history would be acceptable. For example, if she was approached by early Seekers to help refine their ritual in exchange for a heavy price would be an interesting tidbit. In all likelihood she didn't know how large they would become or even if they would become tied to Andrastianism at all, much less Drakon's version of it given his hard stance on magic and which variations of it would be allowed. At most she viewed it as a possibility, but the rest of it was mostly left up to the whims of chance and history. In the end I think he series would be better served if Mythal was only important to historical events that were directly tied to the preservation of ancient things. Like high dragons. I think we can all reasonably assume their continued existence can probably be tied to Yavana and her secret dragon sanctuary to help replenish their dwindling population. Using the Theiran family to preserve the dragon blood would be another decent example, as his rise to power and royalty can easily be reasoned to be a means to encourage the preservation of a continued bloodline. But construing her as the mastermind behind Andraste's rebellion? Or as the manipulator of early Nevarrans into developing their necromantic ways? Or somehow forcing the early kossith to come to Thedas? That seems like too much. In the end I think Flemythal would be better served as being exactly what she described herself in DAI. A person who primarily "nudges" history as an occasional occurrence as opposed to constantly "shoving" it in a design she likes. A planner who adapts to how the world stage sets itself as opposed to being the one who secretly dictates it from the shadows. This assumes of course Mythal really was the mastermind behind Andraste's rebellion, and didn't do it on her own agency after Mythal got taking out of the picture by someone else before Andraste met her. (her betrayal by the other Evanuris?) Whoever slew Dumat must've been aware of the Dark Ritual or performed it (Either Elderath/Elgar'nan or someone else) because the Warden who slew the Archdemon has never been identified. Then that means Elderath must've been a Grey Warden at the very least, as he (and Mythal) would've wanted himself to survive making the Killing Blow. Ironic now that I think that if Elderath really was a King and Mythal was his lover, then that would mean they had the polar opposite relationship that Alistair and Morrigan had in DA:O. If the First Warden really was one of the 7 Magisters like I think he/she was, then they must've been around at the time of the First Blight and knew Andraste's parents. I was looking over the Tarot cards in Inquisition recently, and this crazy theory I've got largely stems from the tarot for the Normal Difficulty option. I remember people thinking it was supposed to be Mythal and Elgar'nan, but more then anything I think it's supposed it's supposed to be Andraste and Shartan during the days of the exalted march against Tevinter. But why then is Shartan holding a staff that looks like the one Falon'din had? And why does he look like Solas with a crewcut?
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 5, 2021 0:34:39 GMT
I really dislike the notion of Mythal being the mastermind behind, or even just involved in every important event that ever happened in history. To me, it makes the setting smaller and less rich, not better. Ditto. That being said, her popping up occasionally and semi-unintentionally affecting history would be acceptable. For example, if she was approached by early Seekers to help refine their ritual in exchange for a heavy price would be an interesting tidbit. In all likelihood she didn't know how large they would become or even if they would become tied to Andrastianism at all, much less Drakon's version of it given his hard stance on magic and which variations of it would be allowed. At most she viewed it as a possibility, but the rest of it was mostly left up to the whims of chance and history. In the end I think he series would be better served if Mythal was only important to historical events that were directly tied to the preservation of ancient things. Like high dragons. I think we can all reasonably assume their continued existence can probably be tied to Yavana and her secret dragon sanctuary to help replenish their dwindling population. Using the Theiran family to preserve the dragon blood would be another decent example, as his rise to power and royalty can easily be reasoned to be a means to encourage the preservation of a continued bloodline. But construing her as the mastermind behind Andraste's rebellion? Or as the manipulator of early Nevarrans into developing their necromantic ways? Or somehow forcing the early kossith to come to Thedas? That seems like too much. In the end I think Flemythal would be better served as being exactly what she described herself in DAI. A person who primarily "nudges" history as an occasional occurrence as opposed to constantly "shoving" it in a design she likes. A planner who adapts to how the world stage sets itself as opposed to being the one who secretly dictates it from the shadows. From my perspective, the Theirin's having dragon blood or whatever was already pushing it. That in itself is already too many layers of special specialface on one character (Alistair). Being an orphaned bastard prince should have been enough, he didn't need to be a half-elf with dragon blood and all this other bullshit. It's lazy and juvenile and lame. And when I say I don't want Mythal to be behind everything, what I really mean is I don't want everything to keep coming back to ancient elves in general. I think that would be just as bad. When you make everything that ever happened ever revolve around a few super-special characters, you rob the setting and the story of any sense of verisimilitude it once had. As it is, I think Dragon Age already does this way too much within the actual games with all its crossovers and returning characters and cameos.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 15, 2021 7:50:53 GMT
I may have mentioned this before but I recalled this mosaic (actually it is a carving not a mosaic) to mind and, as when I first considered the subject matter, it struck me as odd: I think this one is called "Freed Are Slaves," which is exactly the kind of "saying words but meaning different things" I expect from a Tevinter. There's lies in the carving, too, but I'll come back to that.
Subject aside, I like this. It's workmanlike, but in a good dwarven way. It repeats because the carver knows what she's good at, so she does it again and again. Makes me think she has more than a passing knowledge of the Stone.
That said, there's two sets of hands involved, one old, one new. Take this magister. He's glowing because he's fresh. Newer. Same with his trophies flanking him. Carved down from more complex figures. And the flat next to them - seems plain, doesn't it? The bottom is filled with detail, but this is left an open field? No, that's just what it is now, but there's shadows for a clever eye. So, what was here if not this handsome magister wanting his cod stuffed? Someone else instead of him and his friends, and two more figures on each side. Seven total.
Only the top was changed. The Qunari haven't been touched; that's old wear down there. When it was first done and hundreds of years later, yoked Qunari prisoners still fit. I don't suppose it's for the same reasons.
I can only say the what, not the why. I can guess that someone wanted to be a Tevinter hero and paid to have their face carved on an antiquity. I mean, that's a crime against ancestors where I'm from, but I don't expect Tevinters to obey dwarven honor. Or their own, really. They've been at war a long time, so I understand wanting to seem big. Orzammar's the same with the darkspawn, unfortunately.So clearly it would seem that, at some point in the last 300 years since the Qunari appeared on the scene, a Magister paid for someone to alter an old mosaic to make it look as though it was celebrating his triumph in battle with the Qun, although it seems hard to understand why it was entitled "Freed are the Slaves" unless it was either meant to be ironic or the marching qunari in the bottom half are meant to be Tal'Vashoth who are now willingly fighting for Tevinter. However, that aside, if this was really a much older carving depicting Kossith/Qunari, when was it created? Apparently it originally had 7 figures presiding over the marching ranks, which suggests either the 7 high priests of the Old Gods (if its crafting was in the time of ancient Tevinter) or 7 Evanuris or their high priests (if it actually dated to a much earlier elven period). In which case the title of the carving has most likely also changed and the marching kossith (which is what they were originally in the ancient period) probably are slaves of those watching over them. Now it is possible that next game we will discover it was ancient Tevinter who were responsible for creating the kossith. Corypheus is clearly aware they were not a naturally occurring race and calls them a "mistake". It could have been done in his time since they appeared in southern Thedas only some 15 years before the assault on the Black City. OGB Kieran also expresses regret at what was done to their people to a Vashoth Inquisitor. Since he has the memories of an Old God, that would perhaps be a further pointer to Tevinter being responsible. However, it is also possible that the Old Gods are connected with the ancient elves in some way (although there is nothing in (Dalish or human) lore connecting them according to Solas) and Corypheus also obtained knowledge both from the orb and presumably Dumat (since he knew about the connection between the elves and the Fade before he went to the Black City). We also know that Ghilan'nain seemed to be obsessed with creating new powerful creatures and may have done experiments on intelligent races as well, either elves or humans. It is also possible that the sarcophagus introduced in the comic series is going to be shown to have been involved in some way or something similar to it. I get the feeling that there is going to be some major revelation concerning its origins in the final instalment of Dark Fortress, which is only a couple of weeks away, but in the interim, do you think this mosaic is significant concerning the origins of the kossith?
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Post by ellehaym on May 17, 2021 19:00:59 GMT
I don't think its a coincidence that DA2 Qunari horns looked like the newly designed Flemeth.
As for why there were supposed to be 7 individuals, maybe they are the Evanuris minus Solas and Mythal? It could have been created after her murder and I think Solas war with them probably took many years, perhaps decades or even centuries.
What I like to know is if they were once on Thedas, how did they leave? Did they really just took a ship and sailed north? Or did the Evanuris have colonies beyond Thedas?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 19, 2021 13:59:53 GMT
What I like to know is if they were once on Thedas, how did they leave? Did they really just took a ship and sailed north? Or did the Evanuris have colonies beyond Thedas? That is something I've wondered about for some time. Humans are said to have come from somewhere else outside of the continent we know as Thedas, so where exactly did they originate and were the Evanuris ever active there? When Solas created the Veil did it impact on the entire world or just the Thedas bit of it? If the former, wouldn't people there have wondered what was going on? Or did the collective, selective amnesia that seems to have affected the races of Thedas impact throughout the globe? This is part of the problem I have with far reaching powers that can alter the entire fabric of reality; if there are places and civilisations beyond the bit we know, then shouldn't they be affect too and have a say in how to combat it? I suppose this is where the Executors come in. I do wonder, though, where they have been in the previous millennia. Did they always have agents keeping a watch on things but have only now decided to reveal themselves? I really do think we need to start getting some answers about the origins of both humans and kossith this time round, where they came from and what connection, if at all, they had with the ancient elves.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 19, 2021 14:10:59 GMT
I've found a trailer I've been seeking for a while. It is linked to the video that used to be on the old Bioware site that was offering a quick tour of southern Thedas with the title of "What is at stake/what we are trying to save" or something like that. Basically, though, the crux of the matter was that what we were trying to save was not some political set-up or civilisation but the world itself, with all its natural wonders, both beautiful and savage. I hope they will remember this in directing our motivations next game because I always took this to heart in DAI. People have suggested that the current world is so shitty, Solas may as well wipe it clean and start again, whereas I say that is purely down to political systems, not the natural world itself and the only justification for wiping that clean is that it is too corrupted with the blight to save. I need to be convinced of that fact though and I think it might still be possible to reverse the rot with the right kind of assistance plus discovering the root cause and dealing with it. Anyway, another thing I was wondering about was the dragon that appears at the very end of the trailer. It appears to be in the Fade. Now it could have something to do with our final battle with Corypheus and his floating rocks but I'm pretty sure that isn't his dragon. In fact it reminds me more of this one that appears to have emerged from a breach in the Veil from first ever DAI trailer with Morrigan. So is this a dragon we have yet to meet? Maybe one of the remaining Old Gods or an Evanuris?
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 19, 2021 15:30:41 GMT
The Qunari are a Republic, partly based off of Plato's Republic, and partly based off of the Aztecs.
*Drops mic.*
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Post by gervaise21 on May 19, 2021 16:07:14 GMT
The Qunari are a Republic, partly based off of Plato's Republic, and partly based off of the Aztecs. Really? I've always seen them as the "Communists" of Thedas with Koslun equated to Karl Marx and the current Qun a conglomerate of 20th century regimes in our world. The idea was meant to be a fairer society for all but somehow it never ends up that way, particularly when it comes to those who don't agree with the philosophy.
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Post by midnight tea on May 19, 2021 17:01:16 GMT
The Qunari are a Republic, partly based off of Plato's Republic, and partly based off of the Aztecs. Really? I've always seen them as the "Communists" of Thedas with Koslun equated to Karl Marx and the current Qun a conglomerate of 20th century regimes in our world. The idea was meant to be a fairer society for all but somehow it never ends up that way, particularly when it comes to those who don't agree with the philosophy. Considering that sometimes it's noted that Koslun sounds a lot like Solas and maybe there's a real connection there, does that make Solas 'the Karl Marx' of Thedas?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on May 19, 2021 18:58:13 GMT
Considering that sometimes it's noted that Koslun sounds a lot of like Solas and maybe there's a real connection there, does that make Solas 'the Karl Marx' of Thedas? Quite possibly. I've suggested elsewhere that maybe the reason Solas so hates the Qun is because he was Koslun and knows how they have perverted what he intended. However, that tends to be an unpopular theory on the basis that people would like something not to be taken from ancient elves, plus he was meant to have been asleep since he raised the Veil. Still, even if he wasn't actually Koslun, he could have influenced the real Koslun via his dreams and so it would still infuriate him because of what the Qun did with the philosophy. I am still curious to know more about the origins of the Qun, where they came from, what race Koslun was from and where he went when he travelled the world looking for the ideal society. If it wasn't Thedas, then that does suggest there is a whole wealth of civilisations beyond the sea just waiting to be discovered.
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Post by xerrai on May 19, 2021 19:07:10 GMT
Anyway, another thing I was wondering about was the dragon that appears at the very end of the trailer. It appears to be in the Fade. Now it could have something to do with our final battle with Corypheus and his floating rocks but I'm pretty sure that isn't his dragon. In fact it reminds me more of this one that appears to have emerged from a breach in the Veil from first ever DAI trailer with Morrigan. So is this a dragon we have yet to meet? Maybe one of the remaining Old Gods or an Evanuris? I always thought it was the Guardian of Mythal. The fire breathing high dragon that we end up using if Morrigan doesn't drink from the well? They certainly look the same. If it appeared in the final battle, that could easily account for why is near the breach on a floating rock. It would seem fitting that it appeared at the end of the trailer too, since the game makes reference to the dragon acquisition being "The Final Piece" needed to defeat Corypheaus.
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Post by dayze on May 23, 2021 1:50:41 GMT
I really dislike the notion of Mythal being the mastermind behind, or even just involved in every important event that ever happened in history. To me, it makes the setting smaller and less rich, not better. Ditto. That being said, her popping up occasionally and semi-unintentionally affecting history would be acceptable. For example, if she was approached by early Seekers to help refine their ritual in exchange for a heavy price would be an interesting tidbit. In all likelihood she didn't know how large they would become or even if they would become tied to Andrastianism at all, much less Drakon's version of it given his hard stance on magic and which variations of it would be allowed. At most she viewed it as a possibility, but the rest of it was mostly left up to the whims of chance and history. In the end I think he series would be better served if Mythal was only important to historical events that were directly tied to the preservation of ancient things. Like high dragons. I think we can all reasonably assume their continued existence can probably be tied to Yavana and her secret dragon sanctuary to help replenish their dwindling population. Using the Theiran family to preserve the dragon blood would be another decent example, as his rise to power and royalty can easily be reasoned to be a means to encourage the preservation of a continued bloodline. But construing her as the mastermind behind Andraste's rebellion? Or as the manipulator of early Nevarrans into developing their necromantic ways? Or somehow forcing the early kossith to come to Thedas? That seems like too much. In the end I think Flemythal would be better served as being exactly what she described herself in DAI. A person who primarily "nudges" history as an occasional occurrence as opposed to constantly "shoving" it in a design she likes. A planner who adapts to how the world stage sets itself as opposed to being the one who secretly dictates it from the shadows. Don't totally disagree with you but factoring in the Avvar "andraste" Tyrdda Bright-Axe or whatever, and her connection the the "Lady of the Skies" with a knife-eared lover and Tyrdda also only having daughters ala Andraste plus the "LoTS" having a daughter with a variation of the Morrigan name......Or maybe these are all just "shards" of whatever creates spirits like Mythal/Flemeth. After all; most anger demons seem to more or less act the same, desire demons and so forth........maybe all "Mythal" Spirits act the same right down to creating the same scenarios'. Maybe it's not Mythal that is behind all of this but her "sisters" more or less. And for the thread here's another Crazy Theory: At some point in the chant it mentions that you are supposed to heed the call or the song of Wisdom and follow it, what are Pride demons also known as "Wisdom" Spirits? Perhaps the Maker created Pride Demons with the intent to "rule" over their mortal brethren?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 23, 2021 7:35:48 GMT
At some point in the chant it mentions that you are supposed to heed the call or the song of Wisdom "To my children venture, carrying wisdom, If they but listen, I shall return." This was the task he laid on Andraste, according to the Canticle of Andraste. Note it does not specifically mention a religious crusade but just spreading the knowledge. Also, it is not good enough just to recite the Chant parrot fashion; you need to listen and presumably act upon the wisdom (as that would prove you have listened). Since the majority of rulers in Thedas pay only lip service to the moral imperatives of the Chant, it is hardly surprising the Maker doesn't count spreading the Chant as fulfilling the condition for him to return. I don't think the Maker created Pride Demons because when he created the spirits, his first children, there were only spirits. According to the Chant his main problem was that the spirits didn't do anything but sing his praise and he wanted them to be creative, which is why he then created the material world, that would not be formless and ever changing like the Fade, and his second children, humans, to inhabit it who would be driven by a desire to constantly strive for something that could never be satisfied. It was only after the appearance of beings with emotions that the spirits started to identify with them, so if anything you could say that mortals created pride demons. Of course this has all been effectively rubbished by the revelation that there was once no Veil and spirits were able to move freely between the two planes of existence, so no need to experience the material world vicariously through the minds of mortals. Thus, based on the evidence of the Chant concerning spirits, if anyone was responsible for the creation of Pride Demons it was Solas (Pride himself) because the creation of the Veil did not simply change the nature of the elves but spirits as well. I'd also mention that as Solas was effectively the creator of the current state of existence and his two friends in the Fade were Wisdom and Purpose (the two things particularly valued by the Maker according to the Chant), it does suggest that the "Maker" who spoke to Andraste and urged her to free all the slaves was in fact Solas speaking from Uthenera. May be if people had heeded "his" wisdom then when he finally revived it would have been as Wisdom but instead when he awoke he was still Pride.
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