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Post by bloodmagereaver on Jul 22, 2021 19:22:40 GMT
Well... So now people are saying mages and possibly humans are because of ancient elves too? Not exactly, I am pretty sure humans can be mages without mixing with elves but the Veil seems to have played a role in humans coming to Thedas.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 23, 2021 7:44:40 GMT
So now people are saying mages and possibly humans are because of ancient elves too? I'm not saying that human necessarily can't be mages without being elf bloodied. The people of Par Ladi are said to be highly magical and they seem to have no elf connection. The same may also be true of the Voshai since their ships have never had any elves on them. What I am specifically trying to explain is the human Dreamers who first appeared almost straight after the Quickening, when the elves appeared to have lost their magic. This has always struck me as odd but even more so in the light of Solas' revelation that the Quickening was caused by him raising the Veil and this resulted in a catastrophic reduction in contact with the magic of the Fade. Now if the humans were receiving their magical ability from somewhere other than the Fade, then I can understand this not having such an impact on them as it did on the elves but why would it give rise to human Dreamers suddenly appearing on the scene? Admittedly there is also mention of blood magic and this does derive its power from somewhere other than the Fade but until they make up their minds about exactly how and where it derives its power from the matter is open to speculation. Also, there is a school of thought in Thedas itself that the early humans were taught blood magic by the elves, not the Old Gods, although in some ways both could be true until we know what exactly the Old Gods were/are. There is also the problem that Solas maintained that blood magic weakens the connection with the Fade, which is precisely the opposite of what Dreamers are, individuals who can enter the Fade at will and derive their power directly from it. So something doesn't add up.
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Jul 23, 2021 11:21:12 GMT
Well... So now people are saying mages and possibly humans are because of ancient elves too? I'm not saying that human necessarily can't be mages without being elf bloodied. The people of Par Ladi are said to be highly magical and they seem to have no elf connection. The same may also be true of the Voshai since their ships have never had any elves on them. What I am specifically trying to explain is the human Dreamers who first appeared almost straight after the Quickening, when the elves appeared to have lost their magic. This has always struck me as odd but even more so in the light of Solas' revelation that the Quickening was caused by him raising the Veil and this resulted in a catastrophic reduction in contact with the magic of the Fade. Now if the humans were receiving their magical ability from somewhere other than the Fade, then I can understand this not having such an impact on them as it did on the elves but why would it give rise to human Dreamers suddenly appearing on the scene? Admittedly there is also mention of blood magic and this does derive its power from somewhere other than the Fade but until they make up their minds about exactly how and where it derives its power from the matter is open to speculation. Also, there is a school of thought in Thedas itself that the early humans were taught blood magic by the elves, not the Old Gods, although in some ways both could be true until we know what exactly the Old Gods were/are. There is also the problem that Solas maintained that blood magic weakens the connection with the Fade, which is precisely the opposite of what Dreamers are, individuals who can enter the Fade at will and derive their power directly from it. So something doesn't add up. Blood magic is capable of breaching the Fade physically and also bind spirits. If it does make it harder to enter the Fade in dreams the setback is only temporary because the Seven Priests of legend made sacrifices on a regular basis yet still could talk with spirits in dreams. The biggest proof that Solas is lying or ommiting something is that Falon Din the god of death was likely a blood mage who sacrificed millions for power yet could still do dreamer shenanigans like the rest of the Evanuris. Maybe blood magic could be used to turn the Mark of Fen Harel against him like the One Ring being conquered by another powerful being whose will could match Sauron's. There is certainly a way for the Inquisitor to rewrite the Mark and possibly control the orb of destruction for himself or herself but Solas would do every treatchery possible to avoid that. This is one of the things I wanna see next game, the protagonist climbing in power to match Solas and the Evanuris so that they crap their pants when you match them in combat.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 23, 2021 12:44:30 GMT
There is certainly a way for the Inquisitor to rewrite the Mark and possibly control the orb of destruction for himself or herself but Solas would do every treatchery possible to avoid that. This is one of the things I wanna see next game, the protagonist climbing in power to match Solas and the Evanuris so that they crap their pants when you match them in combat. The Inquisitor already had that godlike power when the anchor/mark was functioning properly. You could literally suck people or anything else into the Fade and likely the trauma of experiencing that wouldn't do the victim much good. You could also erect a barrier around your entire party that deflected objects back against your assailant (that was fun against the bolters in the Descent - which was released after JoH so I had already acquire the ability in that DLC) Which is why the writers realised they would have to take it away from them. Otherwise people would be asking, why didn't the Inquisitor just do the sucky thing on Solas and open up a rift in the middle of his body? That should fix the problem. Solas was wise to that though, he waited until the anchor started to misfire before he confronted you. To be honest though, if the PC is going to gradually acquire the powers of a god, where do they go after that? You are into "all power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" territory. If they truly want a new PC every game and they anticipate a sequel to DA4, once again they are going to have to strip those powers or alternatively make your old PC the new antagonist. Actually that would be interesting. There is a possibility that could be a direction they are taking. Last year we had a snippet of dialogue featuring Solas' VA where he said contemptuously: "They call me the Dread Wolf, what will they call you?" That could point to the new PC ending up with power to match that of Solas and being faced with the decision of what they are going to do with it.
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Jul 24, 2021 3:52:24 GMT
Well... There is certainly a way for the Inquisitor to rewrite the Mark and possibly control the orb of destruction for himself or herself but Solas would do every treatchery possible to avoid that. This is one of the things I wanna see next game, the protagonist climbing in power to match Solas and the Evanuris so that they crap their pants when you match them in combat. The Inquisitor already had that godlike power when the anchor/mark was functioning properly. You could literally suck people or anything else into the Fade and likely the trauma of experiencing that wouldn't do the victim much good. You could also erect a barrier around your entire party that deflected objects back against your assailant (that was fun against the bolters in the Descent - which was released after JoH so I had already acquire the ability in that DLC) Which is why the writers realised they would have to take it away from them. Otherwise people would be asking, why didn't the Inquisitor just do the sucky thing on Solas and open up a rift in the middle of his body? That should fix the problem. Solas was wise to that though, he waited until the anchor started to misfire before he confronted you. To be honest though, if the PC is going to gradually acquire the powers of a god, where do they go after that? You are into "all power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" territory. If they truly want a new PC every game and they anticipate a sequel to DA4, once again they are going to have to strip those powers or alternatively make your old PC the new antagonist. Actually that would be interesting. There is a possibility that could be a direction they are taking. Last year we had a snippet of dialogue featuring Solas' VA where he said contemptuously: "They call me the Dread Wolf, what will they call you?" That could point to the new PC ending up with power to match that of Solas and being faced with the decision of what they are going to do with it. The idea that we become some sort of dark lord figure to Thedas by the end of DA4 sounds appealing. Like I put into the DA4 plot thread, I think our protagonist will lose his/her body to the force behing the Taint who calls himself the Maker because we take control of the Black City. We will then be revived in a depowered state by our companions to fight our possessed old body.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 5, 2021 4:39:33 GMT
Here's a theory, not really based on anything but speculation: We eventually will start off as a Qunari. If not in DA4, then we will in another game.
Think about it: Qunari, as in people who follow the Qun, can be any race technically. It would also give a good justification to have the option to play qunari (the race). And, as we've seen in the games, there's Qunari of all stripes, so to speak. There's ones that are very rigid and ones that are less strictly "devout" and everything in between. It would also give a sense of tension between us and other characters, given that we've come from the enemy nation. We could also have a good inner conflict relating to how we grew up and our loyalties and faith.
Even more than that, there's room for different origins there as well. Perhaps, if we play a male character, we could be either from the military or a Ben-Hassrath, while as a woman we could have been under the Arigena as a merchant or tradesman (perhaps a blacksmith?) or we could be a Ben-Hassrath. Meanwhile, if we're a mage, we'd be a Saarebas that somehow got loose and have a completely different narrative experience than the other classes.
I know the Qun is something that seems pretty alien to the fanbase, but I feel like it's an obvious direction to streamline the protagonist's varying backgrounds relating to race and also make our backstory more important to the narrative. I don't know if they'd actually do something like this, but.... It's an idea.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 5, 2021 6:02:23 GMT
Here's a theory, not really based on anything but speculation: We eventually will start off as a Qunari. If not in DA4, then we will in another game. Think about it: Qunari, as in people who follow the Qun, can be any race technically. It would also give a good justification to have the option to play qunari (the race). And, as we've seen in the games, there's Qunari of all stripes, so to speak. There's ones that are very rigid and ones that are less strictly "devout" and everything in between. It would also give a sense of tension between us and other characters, given that we've come from the enemy nation. We could also have a good inner conflict relating to how we grew up and our loyalties and faith. Even more than that, there's room for different origins there as well. Perhaps, if we play a male character, we could be either from the military or a Ben-Hassrath, while as a woman we could have been under the Arigena as a merchant or tradesman (perhaps a blacksmith?) or we could be a Ben-Hassrath. Meanwhile, if we're a mage, we'd be a Saarebas that somehow got loose and have a completely different narrative experience than the other classes. I know the Qun is something that seems pretty alien to the fanbase, but I feel like it's an obvious direction to streamline the protagonist's varying backgrounds relating to race and also make our backstory more important to the narrative. I don't know if they'd actually do something like this, but.... It's an idea. People just on this very forum have such wildly different imaginings of how the Qun actually works in practice that I almost want to see this just for the resulting debates and outrage.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 5, 2021 7:30:34 GMT
Here's a theory, not really based on anything but speculation: We eventually will start off as a Qunari. If not in DA4, then we will in another game. This is not beyond the bounds of possibility either. Instead of the "Dark Lord" outcome, what if the Qun actually succeed in their efforts (first hinted at in Trespasser) to actually strengthen the Veil still further? The suppression of magical abilities that followed would remove the other nations' main weapon against the Qun forces: free mages. It has been something of a disappointment in the current story line that the Qun seem to be making such advances across Tevinter virtually unopposed. This is apparently because of the effect of internal power struggles within the Magisterium. However, the Tevinter aristocracy have always engaged in power politics and that didn't stop them from keeping the Qun at bay in the past. Generally, the rule is that when threatened by an external enemy, people tend to pull together for their own survival. The Qun made drastic inroads into Tevinter territory during the Steel Age because they took everyone by surprise. That is no longer the case. Tevinter and the Qun have never not been at war. Tevinter didn't sign the Llomerryn Accord, they have constantly fought over the island of Seheron (which is in a strategically significant location) and the Qun have made regular attacks on the Tevinter mainland, particularly in the east. Thus you would assume that Tevinter would have a standing army there ready to be deployed as needed. We have also been told that Tevinter spies keep a constant watch on what is happening on Par Vollen, including changes in leadership or the build up of forces, so they can anticipate the level of threat to themselves. When the Qun have attacked the mainland, it is always the Tevinter superior magical firepower than has been instrumental in stopping them. Thus recent events have not been consistent with the previous narrative. However, returning my previous idea, if the source of magic was suddenly cut off or drastically reduced, the Qun would find it much easier to conquer Tevinter and, once the Imperium had fallen, the rest of the nations would likely follow as well. If the DA4 protagonist had been responsible for this by thwarting Solas in rather drastic fashion by actually mirroring what he did in ancient times, it would explain his words to them in the VA clip. They think they are saving the world from his threat but instead they destroy their civilisation by opening the way to the Qun. So the next game could begin with everyone under the rule of the Qun but with pockets of resistance throughout Thedas. The aim of the next protagonist would not only be to unite these factions into a cohesive force but to bring back the magic.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2021 12:55:38 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 5, 2021 16:39:58 GMT
Returning magic to the world is a pretty used storyline though... I would agree but then there are very few totally original plot lines in fantasy, just reworking of old ones through altered setting and make up of society. Of course, we could end up with "magic returning to the world" in DA4 if Solas gets his way, since apparently current Thedas is a pale imitation of what went before, even though the limits on what we can do with magic have been constantly changing since DAO. Mind you, that is usually because some sort of ancient magical artifact is what makes it possible to "break the rules". There is also the tendency to avoid answering pertinent questions like, for example, how exactly did Solas manage to accomplish such reality changing magic and simultaneously outwit a whole cohort of god-like magical beings? To be honest, I would rather they scaled back somewhat on the scope of what magic can do and stopped using ancient dodads to explain the anomaly. Letting Solas succeed isn't really going to help matters but finishing what he started back in ancient times would redress the balance.
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Aug 7, 2021 11:11:34 GMT
Well...
While I understand that some find the Qun interesting and may argue for a Thedas under the Qun scenario, this just doesn't work for a character driven narrative.
The Qun advocates for the obliteration of individual desires and compulsory collective devotion not to mention they rely on a centralized planned economy.
It's basically fantasy communism and fighting a war of resistance against a twisted ideology is long and boring because you don't have clear villains other than the occasional enemy commander you need to defeat to liberate an area.
What I want to see from the Qun is for it to be exposed for it's non-sense and collapse like communism does.
Like any central planned economy, the Qun certainly have shortages of basic goods which are likely hidden from the public by the Ben Hassrath.
Par Vollen while boasting a massive military like the Soviet Union must have difficulty giving the average citizen a bare minimal standard of living hence their reluctance on launching another massive military campaign that will drastically drain their resources.
Another important change is that technology in Thedas has improved dramatically since the Steel Age to the point that while Qunari still have an edge it's not significant enough to beat a coalition of say Orlais and Ferelden.
It's true that if magic got dampened further the Imperium could fall to the Qun but most other nations in Thedas aren't so reliant on magic and with gunpowder now avaiable for other nations after Trespasser the Qunari are kind of deadlocked.
In regards to why the Imperium is currently losing to the Qun it is all the Venatori's fault.
The Venatori took a large amount of troops and mages from the Imperium to fight their pointless war for the Elder One and concurrently murdered several honest and competent Tevinter soldiers and commanders who refused to join them.
It's a no brainer that Tevinter would be significantly weaker after everything that happened since Corypheus.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 7, 2021 12:10:03 GMT
The Venatori took a large amount of troops and mages from the Imperium to fight their pointless war for the Elder One and concurrently murdered several honest and competent Tevinter soldiers and commanders who refused to join them. I would disagree with this assessment. The Venatori were a group of cultists and whilst they did have some adherents in the Magisterium, for example Alexius and Erimond, it seemed mostly composed of those just below the top echelon of Tevinter society, or in the case of Calpernia considerably below, who wanted to advance themselves faster than could be achieved by normal methods. Even so, most of the Altus members would seem to have stayed in Tevinter during Corypheus' campaign and awaited developments, ready to jump to support him if successful or disown him if not. For example, if we defeat Alexius, the Magisterium promptly disown him, likely prompted by the Archon to do so, who regarded the Venatori as a threat to his power. In fact, according to the comic series Mage Killer, he took steps to remove prominent members of the Venatori in Tevinter. So the Venatori would not have been utilising the main forces of the Imperium in their campaign and these would have remained largely unaffected by his failure. With the constant threat from the Qun, there should have been a sizeable standing army on the east side of the Imperium, particularly when their spies started to report the Qun were building up forces ready for an invasion (initially this would have been intended for the south but the spies wouldn't necessarily know that). In the comic series people seemed to fear an imminent invasion and yet apart from a few scouts there was no military presence in the area. One thing that puzzled me about the narrative post our defeat of Corypheus in 9:42 is how much of a force the Venatori continued to be. Whilst those who longed for a return to the Imperium of old wouldn't change their sentiments in private, the defeat of their "god" would have shaken their movement as a whole. Plus that occurred back in 9:42. The loss of any mages in the south would be offset by young mages graduating in the north. Unlike the south, Tevinter has actively promoted the production of mages and they have always been the chief weapon against the Qun. Dorian and Maevaris were able to recruit a fair number of younger mages joining the Magisterium in the period leading up to the Exalted Council. These Lucerni are meant to be enthusiatic young patriots, wanting to fight corruption in their leadership. Where were they when the Qun invaded? Plus, however divided the Magisterium might be, the Qun would be a unifying threat. The moment their intelligence sources told them the Qun were on the move, Tevinter should have mobilised better than they did in the comics. The Qun launched a major offensive against Tevinter back in 9:11 and yet Tevinter were able to halt it before it even took Qarinus. Yet we are to believe that Tevinter is now so disorganised, the Qun had swept down the east coast unchallenged. It's true that if magic got dampened further the Imperium could fall to the Qun but most other nations in Thedas aren't so reliant on magic and with gunpowder now avaiable for other nations after Trespasser the Qunari are kind of deadlocked. How much have the southern nations advanced? Gunpowder is only known to a select few; otherwise why were we still relying on ballisters when storming the fortress at Adamant? Driving back the Qun in the past was a combination of naval power, the Felicisima Armada, and land forces bolstered by mages from the Circles. Why are the Crows so concerned about the Qun if they can match them for technology? Now the south did lose a lot of their mages in the rebellion , so they are at a disadvantage even as things stand. Orlais and Ferelden have never had to contend with a direct attack of the Qun in the past, just would have contributed forces to the Exalted Marches against them. Nevertheless, I still think a sensible strategy for the Qun would be to take out Tevinter first before turning their attention back on the south.
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Aug 7, 2021 19:24:11 GMT
Well... The Venatori took a large amount of troops and mages from the Imperium to fight their pointless war for the Elder One and concurrently murdered several honest and competent Tevinter soldiers and commanders who refused to join them. I would disagree with this assessment. The Venatori were a group of cultists and whilst they did have some adherents in the Magisterium, for example Alexius and Erimond, it seemed mostly composed of those just below the top echelon of Tevinter society, or in the case of Calpernia considerably below, who wanted to advance themselves faster than could be achieved by normal methods. Even so, most of the Altus members would seem to have stayed in Tevinter during Corypheus' campaign and awaited developments, ready to jump to support him if successful or disown him if not. For example, if we defeat Alexius, the Magisterium promptly disown him, likely prompted by the Archon to do so, who regarded the Venatori as a threat to his power. In fact, according to the comic series Mage Killer, he took steps to remove prominent members of the Venatori in Tevinter. So the Venatori would not have been utilising the main forces of the Imperium in their campaign and these would have remained largely unaffected by his failure. With the constant threat from the Qun, there should have been a sizeable standing army on the east side of the Imperium, particularly when their spies started to report the Qun were building up forces ready for an invasion (initially this would have been intended for the south but the spies wouldn't necessarily know that). In the comic series people seemed to fear an imminent invasion and yet apart from a few scouts there was no military presence in the area. One thing that puzzled me about the narrative post our defeat of Corypheus in 9:42 is how much of a force the Venatori continued to be. Whilst those who longed for a return to the Imperium of old wouldn't change their sentiments in private, the defeat of their "god" would have shaken their movement as a whole. Plus that occurred back in 9:42. The loss of any mages in the south would be offset by young mages graduating in the north. Unlike the south, Tevinter has actively promoted the production of mages and they have always been the chief weapon against the Qun. Dorian and Maevaris were able to recruit a fair number of younger mages joining the Magisterium in the period leading up to the Exalted Council. These Lucerni are meant to be enthusiatic young patriots, wanting to fight corruption in their leadership. Where were they when the Qun invaded? Plus, however divided the Magisterium might be, the Qun would be a unifying threat. The moment their intelligence sources told them the Qun were on the move, Tevinter should have mobilised better than they did in the comics. The Qun launched a major offensive against Tevinter back in 9:11 and yet Tevinter were able to halt it before it even took Qarinus. Yet we are to believe that Tevinter is now so disorganised, the Qun had swept down the east coast unchallenged. It's true that if magic got dampened further the Imperium could fall to the Qun but most other nations in Thedas aren't so reliant on magic and with gunpowder now avaiable for other nations after Trespasser the Qunari are kind of deadlocked. How much have the southern nations advanced? Gunpowder is only known to a select few; otherwise why were we still relying on ballisters when storming the fortress at Adamant? Driving back the Qun in the past was a combination of naval power, the Felicisima Armada, and land forces bolstered by mages from the Circles. Why are the Crows so concerned about the Qun if they can match them for technology? Now the south did lose a lot of their mages in the rebellion , so they are at a disadvantage even as things stand. Orlais and Ferelden have never had to contend with a direct attack of the Qun in the past, just would have contributed forces to the Exalted Marches against them. Nevertheless, I still think a sensible strategy for the Qun would be to take out Tevinter first before turning their attention back on the south. The Venatori had a significant number of troops even if they were a minor part of the Imperium not to mention how much of a power struggle they caused within Tevinter itself. While power schemes have always been part of Tevinter history, the scale which Corypheus mobilized a disgruntled part of Tevinter society is unprecedented. Even if the bulk of Corypheus forces was composed of mind controlled southerners, the impact he had weakening the north should not be underestimated. As for gunpowder, the Qunari spent nearly two centuries preventing any other faction in Thedas from having it and actively murdered those who developed comparable tecnologies. However, at the end of Trespasser the secret to making Gatlok was exposed and every faction seeking to replicate it will develop gunpowder quickly. The Qunari won't be able to mantain their technological edge for more than a few decades at best which is why for them to conquer Thedas and mantain it under control it would be very difficult.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 7, 2021 20:00:34 GMT
The Qunari won't be able to mantain their technological edge for more than a few decades at best which is why for them to conquer Thedas and mantain it under control it would be very difficult. I think you underestimate the degree to which they could control the general populace if they removed the leadership, which was the whole point of the Dragon's Breath plot. Yes, there would always be pockets of resistance, which is where a plot line to restore freedom to Thedas might come in, but the Ben'Hassrath would largely be able to neutralise the rebellious elements in society. At best Thedas would probably become like Seheron, with the Qun pretty much in control in the urban areas but under constant harassment from rebels trying to undermine them, with the latter having their bases out in the wilds. To be honest, though, ordinary folk probably wouldn't notice much difference, particularly in places like Orlais where the nobility think they have the right to treat commoners as they please and very often abuse that privilege. They might actually think a society where they didn't have to constantly fear a Chevalier riding in was an improvement, especially if they were actually better provided for than previously. Of course, it would be different in Ferelden, which has a different system of governance where even the king rules by consent of the freeholders, as expressed through the Banns. If Orlais couldn't break them, I doubt the Qunari could either.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2021 2:09:51 GMT
The Qunari won't be able to mantain their technological edge for more than a few decades at best which is why for them to conquer Thedas and mantain it under control it would be very difficult. I think you underestimate the degree to which they could control the general populace if they removed the leadership, which was the whole point of the Dragon's Breath plot. Yes, there would always be pockets of resistance, which is where a plot line to restore freedom to Thedas might come in, but the Ben'Hassrath would largely be able to neutralise the rebellious elements in society. At best Thedas would probably become like Seheron, with the Qun pretty much in control in the urban areas but under constant harassment from rebels trying to undermine them, with the latter having their bases out in the wilds. To be honest, though, ordinary folk probably wouldn't notice much difference, particularly in places like Orlais where the nobility think they have the right to treat commoners as they please and very often abuse that privilege. They might actually think a society where they didn't have to constantly fear a Chevalier riding in was an improvement, especially if they were actually better provided for than previously. Of course, it would be different in Ferelden, which has a different system of governance where even the king rules by consent of the freeholders, as expressed through the Banns. If Orlais couldn't break them, I doubt the Qunari could either. I think people would notice not being allowed to have a family or romantic relationships anymore, and potentially being forced into new careers because "our assessment determines you are better placed elsewhere".
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2021 2:11:31 GMT
Anyway.
DA Crazy Theory Centre: In next game, maybe guns?
Actual FFXIV Online: Guess what motherfuckers, in the next expansion you're going to the GODDAMN MOON
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Post by xerrai on Aug 8, 2021 3:46:04 GMT
Anyway. DA Crazy Theory Centre: In next game, maybe guns? Actual FFXIV Online: Guess what motherfuckers, in the next expansion you're going to the GODDAMN MOON Guns in Dragon Age actually isn't entirely out of the question seeing as the Qunari and a few other powers (quite notably seen when Anders created a magically-set explosive for Kirkwall's Chantry) are heavily implied to have gunpowder or something close to it. The qunari especially can theoretically make that leap since they have functional canons already, and what are canons except really really big guns? That said, if we the player DO get functional guns, they better be reminiscent of actual early guns. The kind that were liable for misfiring or breaking after every use. And that's on top of taking forever to reload. In game mechanics that would translate to an obscenely large cooldown and repeatedly buying a new gun just to shoot the damn thing once or twice. The catch? The damage of a successful hit was obscene, enough for a one hit KO if it lands since a landing bullet is just that effective. It actually sounds pretty neat. But we better not have a "gunslinger" class who are firing accurate shots everywhere repeatedly.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2021 3:58:10 GMT
Anyway. DA Crazy Theory Centre: In next game, maybe guns? Actual FFXIV Online: Guess what motherfuckers, in the next expansion you're going to the GODDAMN MOON Guns in Dragon Age actually isn't entirely out of the question seeing as the Qunari and a few other powers (quite notably seen when Anders created a magically-set explosive for Kirkwall's Chantry) are heavily implied to have gunpowder or something close to it. The qunari especially can theoretically make that leap since they have functional canons already, and what are canons except really really big guns? That said, if we the player DO get functional guns, they better be reminiscent of actual early guns. The kind that were liable for misfiring or breaking after every use. And that's on top of taking forever to reload. In game mechanics that would translate to an obscenely large cooldown and repeatedly buying a new gun just to shoot the damn thing once or twice. The catch? The damage of a successful hit was obscene, enough for a one hit KO if it lands since a landing bullet is just that effective. It actually sounds pretty neat. But we better not have a "gunslinger" class who are firing accurate shots everywhere repeatedly. The point I was making was that other games freely do crazy shit *just because it is fun*. I have no actual opinion about guns in DA, except that OF COURSE people in here would want a million billion "historically accurate" caveats that make them as shitty and un-fun as possible, as you have just amply demonstrated.
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Post by xerrai on Aug 8, 2021 4:44:30 GMT
Guns in Dragon Age actually isn't entirely out of the question seeing as the Qunari and a few other powers (quite notably seen when Anders created a magically-set explosive for Kirkwall's Chantry) are heavily implied to have gunpowder or something close to it. The qunari especially can theoretically make that leap since they have functional canons already, and what are canons except really really big guns? That said, if we the player DO get functional guns, they better be reminiscent of actual early guns. The kind that were liable for misfiring or breaking after every use. And that's on top of taking forever to reload. In game mechanics that would translate to an obscenely large cooldown and repeatedly buying a new gun just to shoot the damn thing once or twice. The catch? The damage of a successful hit was obscene, enough for a one hit KO if it lands since a landing bullet is just that effective. It actually sounds pretty neat. But we better not have a "gunslinger" class who are firing accurate shots everywhere repeatedly. The point I was making was that other games freely do crazy shit *just because it is fun*. I have no actual opinion about guns in DA, except that OF COURSE people in here would want a million billion "historically accurate" caveats that make them as shitty and un-fun as possible, as you have just amply demonstrated. That's cool. I was of course offering my personal opinion. But bear in mind that I have already considered that we would get another "Varric"-type character in the next game as well. That a person (or future DA4 companion) has access to new advanced technology because they have certain connections. That connection can be a lone genius like Bianca or a technologically advanced society like the qunari who could feasibly have researched similar tech for a couple of decades if not more. So long as the explanation for how person X has advanced to tech Y, then I won't have too many complaints.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 8, 2021 7:40:02 GMT
I have no actual opinion about guns in DA, except that OF COURSE people in here would want a million billion "historically accurate" caveats that make them as shitty and un-fun as possible, as you have just amply demonstrated. Making weapons not 100% accurate doesn't necessarily equate to "not fun", although if your definition is fun is just being able to shoot stuff then I really don't know what you are doing playing RPG. There are plenty of other games where running around having fun shooting things is the main aim. Nevertheless, I have played an RPG game where they had both magic and weapons, Arcanum (of steamworks and magic obscura). The graphics weren't great but the mechanics of combat did work okay. On the whole you needed to decide if you were going to focus on magic or technology or you ended up a jack of all trades but master of none. Plus it was a feature of the world that if you advanced too much in magic then technology would malfunction, which I thought was an intriguing concept. So if you were too far advanced in magic, there was a chance that if you tried using a gun it would blow up in your face. If you opted for the path of technology then you would gradually become more proficient in using guns. At the beginning there was a greater chance you might miss your target but as you progressed up the levels your aim would become better and at the equivalent of master level your accuracy was near enough 100% and you were also able to use more sophisticated guns that required skill to operate effectively. That to me seems a sensible compromise between "realism" and "fun". So if they were to adopt a similar system in Thedas I wouldn't object. It makes sense that the technology would gradually develop. To be honest it seems strange that the Qunari haven't come up with guns already. Clearly the writers were thinking of something along those lines at one time for the Iron Bull, although looking at it closely it does seem to operate more on a pulley system more akin to a mini ballister rather than actual gun powder. Perhaps they decided that it was going to be too complicated to implement such a concept in DAI but that doesn't preclude them from doing so in the future. Having the world divided along the lines of magic versus technology would open it up to a lot of new ideas and plot lines. For example, instead of being reliant on lyrium mining and crafting magical weapons, the dwarves (particularly the surface dwarves perhaps) diversify and start specialising in technology and so acquire wealth and status topside because of it, may be even establishing dwarven kingdoms on the surface. We know dwarves are capable of this from Bianca. Bianca the dwarf is said to be technologically gifted and yet it would seem that the only use she has made of her natural skills is create Bianca the weapon. In fact given how long Varric has been using Bianca, it does seem strange that no one has thought to try and copy the design.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 8, 2021 7:57:35 GMT
Well... While I understand that some find the Qun interesting and may argue for a Thedas under the Qun scenario, this just doesn't work for a character driven narrative. The Qun advocates for the obliteration of individual desires and compulsory collective devotion not to mention they rely on a centralized planned economy. It's basically fantasy communism and fighting a war of resistance against a twisted ideology is long and boring because you don't have clear villains other than the occasional enemy commander you need to defeat to liberate an area. What I want to see from the Qun is for it to be exposed for it's non-sense and collapse like communism does. Like any central planned economy, the Qun certainly have shortages of basic goods which are likely hidden from the public by the Ben Hassrath. Par Vollen while boasting a massive military like the Soviet Union must have difficulty giving the average citizen a bare minimal standard of living hence their reluctance on launching another massive military campaign that will drastically drain their resources. Another important change is that technology in Thedas has improved dramatically since the Steel Age to the point that while Qunari still have an edge it's not significant enough to beat a coalition of say Orlais and Ferelden. It's true that if magic got dampened further the Imperium could fall to the Qun but most other nations in Thedas aren't so reliant on magic and with gunpowder now avaiable for other nations after Trespasser the Qunari are kind of deadlocked. In regards to why the Imperium is currently losing to the Qun it is all the Venatori's fault. The Venatori took a large amount of troops and mages from the Imperium to fight their pointless war for the Elder One and concurrently murdered several honest and competent Tevinter soldiers and commanders who refused to join them. It's a no brainer that Tevinter would be significantly weaker after everything that happened since Corypheus. I didn't say that this hypothetical Qunari protagonist would remain with the Qun, just that it'd be a way of collapsing the various origins into one singular origin they could apply to all versions of the protagonist. Hypothetically, they could end up leaving it, if Bioware wanted the protagonist to. I disagree that it "doesn't work for a character-driven narrative."
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 8, 2021 13:34:19 GMT
I think people would notice not being allowed to have a family or romantic relationships anymore, and potentially being forced into new careers because "our assessment determines you are better placed elsewhere". The thing is they might quiet possibly not enforce this straight away but introduce changes over time, so each generation becomes more and more adjusted to accepting their philosophy. You will recall that up in Rivain apparently they still allowed the seers in the rural villages to continue to operate under their rule. Now this would seem to contradict their attitude towards bas mages, particularly as the seers allow themselves to become deliberately possessed with benign spirits (probably a bit like happens with the Avvar and their mage children). However, it makes sense if the Qunari had realised how attached the locals seemed to be to their seers and this was in contradiction with the beliefs of the ruling class in Diarsmund. So in order to undermine the rulers, they allow the locals enough autonomy that rule of the Qun seems preferable to the dictates of the Chantry influenced ruling class, thus avoiding any chance of the latter building up a resistance among the majority of the population. From what I remember, the reason the Qun finally agreed to a withdrawal from the mainland is the cost to ordinary people in the conflict. According to WoT, there is still a fair bit of adherence to the teaching of the Qun throughout Rivain outside of Chantry controlled area to the south and the influence of the Qun becomes stronger as you move closer to Kont-aar in the north. Yet the Rivaini also cling steadfastly to their local tradition of the wise women, which is why the Chantry never really made much progress there. So may be, when they are not dealing with their actual race, the Qun are more flexible about forcing all of their teachings on the local population, particularly if it is expedient for them not to do so.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 8, 2021 16:39:47 GMT
I think people would notice not being allowed to have a family or romantic relationships anymore, and potentially being forced into new careers because "our assessment determines you are better placed elsewhere". The thing is they might quiet possibly not enforce this straight away but introduce changes over time, so each generation becomes more and more adjusted to accepting their philosophy. You will recall that up in Rivain apparently they still allowed the seers in the rural villages to continue to operate under their rule. Now this would seem to contradict their attitude towards bas mages, particularly as the seers allow themselves to become deliberately possessed with benign spirits (probably a bit like happens with the Avvar and their mage children). However, it makes sense if the Qunari had realised how attached the locals seemed to be to their seers and this was in contradiction with the beliefs of the ruling class in Diarsmund. So in order to undermine the rulers, they allow the locals enough autonomy that rule of the Qun seems preferable to the dictates of the Chantry influenced ruling class, thus avoiding any chance of the latter building up a resistance among the majority of the population. From what I remember, the reason the Qun finally agreed to a withdrawal from the mainland is the cost to ordinary people in the conflict. According to WoT, there is still a fair bit of adherence to the teaching of the Qun throughout Rivain outside of Chantry controlled area to the south and the influence of the Qun becomes stronger as you move closer to Kont-aar in the north. Yet the Rivaini also cling steadfastly to their local tradition of the wise women, which is why the Chantry never really made much progress there. So may be, when they are not dealing with their actual race, the Qun are more flexible about forcing all of their teachings on the local population, particularly if it is expedient for them not to do so. And I would imagine that they have plans of eventually phasing out the seers. Still, it is curious. I would love to see firsthand how they deal with conquering a culture very different from their own.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 8, 2021 16:40:28 GMT
DA Crazy Theory Centre: In next game, maybe guns? Not Dragon Age but this looks like the sort of cross-over your are suggesting:
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2021 23:26:27 GMT
DA Crazy Theory Centre: In next game, maybe guns? Not Dragon Age but this looks like the sort of cross-over your are suggesting: I wasn't "suggesting" anything, so much as comparing and contrasting the uptight nerd-ery and lack of imagination in this fan forum with other video game franchises. I don't actually care if DA gets guns or not. The only place I'm invested in seeing a gun is in my mouth.
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