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Post by danien7 on Jul 20, 2019 19:03:13 GMT
Hello BioWare and Mass Effect community. We have created a petition to get 5 on the map. Please sign our petition if you believe in the cause. My current game hole (can’t find anything to play) lead me to this and if I’m going to wish and hope for a game I wanted it to be this. Thanks for the support chng.it/YR662GKZDZ
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Jul 20, 2019 19:35:33 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 20, 2019 20:17:35 GMT
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Post by Arcian on Jul 24, 2019 21:18:15 GMT
Hello BioWare and Mass Effect community. We have created a petition to get 5 on the map. Please sign our petition if you believe in the cause. My current game hole (can’t find anything to play) lead me to this and if I’m going to wish and hope for a game I wanted it to be this. Thanks for the support chng.it/YR662GKZDZWe haven't had a 4 yet, why are you jumping straight to 5?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 21:30:37 GMT
I don't like this part.
Bioware doesn't owe its fanbase anything. If you feel burned by anything, then stop buying their games. Sounds too much like victim mentality.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 24, 2019 21:45:47 GMT
Hello BioWare and Mass Effect community. We have created a petition to get 5 on the map. Please sign our petition if you believe in the cause. My current game hole (can’t find anything to play) lead me to this and if I’m going to wish and hope for a game I wanted it to be this. Thanks for the support chng.it/YR662GKZDZWe haven't had a 4 yet, why are you jumping straight to 5? Have to call it something. Whatever the name is, it won't be ME4. That number's taken.
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Post by tatann on Jul 24, 2019 22:15:33 GMT
We haven't had a 4 yet, why are you jumping straight to 5? Have to call it something. Whatever the name is, it won't be ME4. That number's taken. I don't remember playing a ME4, Andromeda is more like a spin off (also in terms of quality)
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Post by clips7 on Jul 25, 2019 1:43:44 GMT
Mass Effect 5 you say?...we have dismissed that claim....we are still waiting for ME4,....Andromeda was nothing more than a glorified side quest with the cast from Scooby Doo....
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 25, 2019 13:46:52 GMT
You can either actually try to convince Bio of something or try to snark at them. I presumed the purpose of the petition was the former.
OTOH, it was quite dismissive of ME:A, so maybe your read was correct. (I liked ME:A too much to sign it.)
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 25, 2019 15:22:34 GMT
Bioware doesn't owe its fanbase anything That goes both ways. The fanbase isn't obligated to support a company, when they see a dramatic drop in quality. The fanbase is not a charity foundation. Some people in the fanbase will legit not be financially able to shell out the $60-120 for Bioware's latest 5/10 title. And why would you even want to support such a practice? If you feel burned by anything, then stop buying their games Don't like it don't buy it? Worked great for Battlefield V. What where the reports again? Trailing CoD preorders by 85%? And this years CoD was one of the lowest selling CoDs in years, barely inching past 2016's Infinite Warfare, the lowest selling CoD in a decade. Unlike the comic book industry, which has imploded in recent years and shrunk to an unprecedented degree, AAA gaming is a multi-million dollar industry and as per Amy Hennig, EA wants billion dollar ideas to rake in money to support the exponential growth that the suits and shareholders want. And EA isn't the kind of publisher that usually hands out favours when you fail. It is a wonder Bioware is still alive at this point and I believe a lot will depend on how DA4 will be received, both critically and commercially. I don't think EA will tolerate a 3 for 3. Sounds too much like victim mentality. It's not victim mentality. The relationship between the fanbase and the company is symbiotic. If you let your fanbase die off or shrink to the point that your company is not being sustained, it will result in the death of both. Unless you are happy with that prospect, which I can't imagine why you would be, why would you want that?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 21:23:17 GMT
If you're talking about the money, I don't have a problem paying for games. No game this gen costs $120 anyways. I didn't buy Bioware's latest game, Anthem, because I wasn't interested in it.
Bioware has done just fine not pandering to their most vocal customers. Look at Mass Effect 3. The most vocal customers wanted a completely new ending, but didn't get it. Bioware gave them the finger and life went on. People to this day still whine about the ending, but that's because they still aren't satisfied because they didn't get what they wanted.
People want to go back to the Milky Way for one reason--a sequel to ME3. And to them, to create a sequel, you need to fix the ending mess, because the franchise can't move forward. I'll bet you $5 that the next Mass Effect game won't be a sequel to ME3 and Bioware will stick to their guns, instead of pandering to what their fans want.
They will do just fine financially, because all those people who didn't like ME3's ending, bought up all the DLC, despite being upset. Instead of saying, I didn't like how I was treated by this developer, so I'm going to take my money to another developer.
Some of them even bought Andromeda, despite being burned, and will continue to buy their games no matter how much they release something they don't like.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 25, 2019 21:40:12 GMT
If you're talking about the money, I don't have a problem paying for games. No game this gen costs $120 anyways. I didn't buy Bioware's latest game, Anthem, because I wasn't interested in it.
Bioware has done just fine not pandering to their most vocal customers. Look at Mass Effect 3. The most vocal customers wanted a completely new ending, but didn't get it. Bioware gave them the finger and life went on. People to this day still whine about the ending, but that's because they still aren't satisfied because they didn't get what they wanted.
People want to go back to the Milky Way for one reason--a sequel to ME3. And to them, to create a sequel, you need to fix the ending mess, because the franchise can't move forward. I'll bet you $5 that the next Mass Effect game won't be a sequel to ME3 and Bioware will stick to their guns, instead of pandering to what their fans want.
They will do just fine financially, because all those people who didn't like ME3's ending, bought up all the DLC, despite being upset. Some of them even bought Andromeda, despite being burned, and will continue to buy their games no matter how much they release something they don't like.
Saying "Bioware can sh*t on their customers all they like, because their customers are dumb" isn't exactly endearing to either side.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 21:43:05 GMT
Saying "Bioware can sh*t on their customers all they like, because their customers are dumb" isn't exactly endearing to either side. Well, don't let them shit on you then. Take your money to a different developer. But, people will go, oh, but Bioware is the only developer who makes games I like, so I don't have a choice. Well enjoy being shit on then, that's your problem.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 25, 2019 21:47:23 GMT
Saying "Bioware can sh*t on their customers all they like, because their customers are dumb" isn't exactly endearing to either side. Well, don't let them shit on you then. Take your money to a different developer. But, people will go, oh, but Bioware is the only developer who makes games I like, so I don't have a choice. Well enjoy being shit on then, that's your problem. I did. I haven't bought a Bioware game Day One since ME3. And I haven't touched Anthem. Instead I go to smaller publishers and indie games. Some of the best games I've enjoyed in recent years have been Kickstarters I backed. That doesn't mean I don't want Bioware to start making the games that made them famous in the first place again.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 25, 2019 21:48:09 GMT
You can either actually try to convince Bio of something or try to snark at them. I presumed the purpose of the petition was the former. OTOH, it was quite dismissive of ME:A, so maybe your read was correct. (I liked ME:A too much to sign it.)So do I tbh.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 21:53:39 GMT
That doesn't mean I don't want Bioware to start making the games that made them famous in the first place again. Fame doesn't last forever. Everyone goes through their ups and downs.
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Post by Serza on Jul 25, 2019 22:05:31 GMT
Hello BioWare and Mass Effect community. We have created a petition to get 5 on the map. Please sign our petition if you believe in the cause. My current game hole (can’t find anything to play) lead me to this and if I’m going to wish and hope for a game I wanted it to be this. Thanks for the support chng.it/YR662GKZDZWe haven't had a 4 yet, why are you jumping straight to 5?
Me thinks this question is exactly what the OP wanted to bait us into.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 26, 2019 12:58:24 GMT
they still aren't satisfied because they didn't get what they wanted Promised. Not wanted, promised. People want to go back to the Milky Way for one reason--a sequel to ME3 Untrue. People want to go back, because the new galaxy produced nothing worthwhile. As a result the fanbase has shrunk, Bioware's name has suffered and their attempts to trade their old "core" audience for a new, 12 year old one has not proved fruitful, in so far. The point is you don't trade a good thing for something inferior. If Andromeda has wowed everyone and had provided people with something to get on board, I wouldn't be here having this discussion with you, I would be playing Andromeda and its DLCs. They will do just fine financially I find that veeeeeery hard to believe. As per the Schreier article, Bioware is at the very bottom of EA's corporate food chain, getting the least amount of support for their game possible and I highly doubt the execs will allow for a 3rd Bioware misstep. There is a chopping block where Bioware is about to rest their head on and the only thing keeping them alive is the chance a dragon (Age) will show up, wreck havoc and stop the execution. Yes, I made a Skyrim allegory. Some of them even bought Andromeda, despite being burned, and will continue to buy their games no matter how much they release something they don't like. So you're saying Bioware is releasing shit products and are brutally milking what's left of their fanbase dry because they think they're idiots. Hanako Ikezawa and @upagain would disagree with you on the quality of Bioware's products and most certainly on their level of intelligence. Well, don't let them shit on you then. Take your money to a different developer. But, people will go, oh, but Bioware is the only developer who makes games I like, so I don't have a choice. Well enjoy being shit on then, that's your problem. Oh, I have. I haven't bought a single Bioware game since ME2. I'm not here to defend Bioware, I'm here to change Bioware.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2019 13:45:39 GMT
Excuse this forum's weird quoting system.
I don't recall saying "we promise there will be x and y in the game, least they never said the word "promise" in those statements". Did you really expect all your decisions to come into play at the very last minute of the game which would shape into 16 radically different endings?
Bioware left their core audience at the curb, because they were insatiable. They even said "we want the Call of Duty audience". They're famous for that line.
I find that hard to believe.
I didn't find Andromeda to be a shit product. I didn't like Anthem, but that's okay.
You can't change Bioware, you can only change yourself.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 26, 2019 14:09:46 GMT
I find that hard to believe. It's not completely crazy. While Bio is an AAA developer, as they've always wanted to be -- some of their older fans wish they had evolved into a niche developer, or perhaps "stood still and became a niche developer" is the way to phrase that -- they're on the low end of that field. Bio games are pretty small compared to other EA stuff, and it's not irrational for Bio games to get less capital of all types than bigger EA games. OTOH, EA bought Bio because they want to play in that space. Shut Bio down and they'd have to buy somebody else.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 26, 2019 14:13:21 GMT
I don't recall saying "we promise there will be x and y in the game, least they never said the word "promise" in those statements". Did you really expect all your decisions to come into play at the very last minute of the game which would shape into 16 radically different endings.
Right, the specific mention of the word promise. If my dad said that he'd come to my baseball game and didn't come, then I shouldn't be disappointed because he didn't specifically use the word promise. When Casey came out and said "nobody will get the same ending", that wasn't a promise. Was it the cost of transparency? Also, shifting the blame on the consumers, that is victim complex. Bioware left their core audience at the curb, because they were insatiable. They even said "we want the Call of Duty audience".
Well, evidently they failed to get that audience, or their latest releases would be getting that [looks at Blops 4's sales] 14 million copies sold. I find that hard to believe. Suit yourself. I didn't find Andromeda to be a shit product. I didn't like Anthem, but that's okay.
I was merely elaborating on your words. You can't change Bioware, you can only change yourself. I can't change myself enough to be able buy 5 million copies of each Bioware game and match EA's expectations of MTX revenue, nor should I. My life goal isn't to make The SirPetrakus Charity Foundation for Ill Begotten EA Devs. It's not my job to dig them out of every 5-7/10 title they release. My job, as part of their dwindling fanbase, is to offer a constructive and well rounded suggestion that the devs can work on to produce a game that is a 8-9/10. So unless you can spare a couple hundred billion dollars, we're at a standstill.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2019 14:15:20 GMT
The world doesn't revolve around Bioware's fanbase.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 26, 2019 14:54:09 GMT
If you're talking about the money, I don't have a problem paying for games. No game this gen costs $120 anyways. I didn't buy Bioware's latest game, Anthem, because I wasn't interested in it.
Bioware has done just fine not pandering to their most vocal customers. Look at Mass Effect 3. The most vocal customers wanted a completely new ending, but didn't get it. Bioware gave them the finger and life went on. People to this day still whine about the ending, but that's because they still aren't satisfied because they didn't get what they wanted.
People want to go back to the Milky Way for one reason--a sequel to ME3. And to them, to create a sequel, you need to fix the ending mess, because the franchise can't move forward. I'll bet you $5 that the next Mass Effect game won't be a sequel to ME3 and Bioware will stick to their guns, instead of pandering to what their fans want.
They will do just fine financially, because all those people who didn't like ME3's ending, bought up all the DLC, despite being upset. Instead of saying, I didn't like how I was treated by this developer, so I'm going to take my money to another developer.
Some of them even bought Andromeda, despite being burned, and will continue to buy their games no matter how much they release something they don't like.
Pretty much this.
Pandering to the loudest and often the most stupid, worst, and toxic parts of the fanbase will KILL a series faster than anything.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 26, 2019 15:40:22 GMT
I find that hard to believe. It's not completely crazy. While Bio is an AAA developer, as they've always wanted to be -- some of their older fans wish they had evolved into a niche developer, or perhaps "stood still and became a niche developer" is the way to phrase that -- they're on the low end of that field. Bio games are pretty small compared to other EA stuff, and it's not irrational for Bio games to get less capital of all types than bigger EA games. OTOH, EA bought Bio because they want to play in that space. Shut Bio down and they'd have to buy somebody else. That's not what I am saying. ME2 was a step in an ambiguous direction, for example, even more so than ME1. For ME1, however, it wasn't the first RPG to incorporate shooting mechanics. By that time we had already had shooting in an RPG with VtM: Bloodlines. We weren't entirely sure how Bioware would go incorporating shooting mechanics at the time and there was a lot of doubt, or worry, if you will, about how they would go about implementing that. Janky is most likely the answer, but the end result was overall worth it and people went along with it. ME2 took us further down that route and while not perfect in its mechanics to fully satisfy either side of the hard core audience, found a very casual friendly middle ground that converge a lot of people. Unless I am mistaken, ME2 is, to this day, the most highly received ME title and one of the best received Bioware titles ever. But it displayed a clear evolutionary path for the franchise that didn't, however, pan out.
We saw a radical, sharp drop in reception by the gaming community of further titles, starting from DA2, which managed to alienate its core audience, primarily by being a very low budget title and significant lower quality than Origins was. It recouped its budget, no doubt, but it also damaged the brand and studio, which was also evident by Inquisitions sales, which enjoyed a very favourably positioned launch window, but didn't generate much higher sales compared to DA2, in spite of being released across 5 different platforms and being the ONLY high profile RPG title of the current console gen at the time. It not only showed that Bioware had failed to capture much, if any, of the rapidly expanding video game community, but also were left behind in terms of market penetration by their competition.
On the other side of the spectrum, the sci-fi side, Bioware released a very lukewarm received and generally mediocre The old Republic and while people held out for the A Team working on ME3, in spite of it getting some things right, it was egregious in other departments, the rush and crunch to finish is palpable in most everything that isn't Tuchanka and the writing (we fight or we die) took a very noticeable nosedive, concluding in a shitstorm of an ending, whereas it was expected to be the new standard by which all games would be judged. Coming into Andromeda, well, the studio was downsized and then merged with Motive, the SP game received nothing but basic level support and the MP has seen no patch since ... November 2018, which was only a nerf/buff update, if I recall and the last content pack it received was ... a lot before that. Oh, I forgot the crucial plot related patch that turned Jaal gay. That really fixed my qualms with Andromeda and definitely didn't compromise Bioware's artistic integrity. A lot of people, salty people, became even saltier after Andromeda ... which died for Anthem. And here we are now.
Nobody knows what's exactly in store for Anthem. I expect there will be a medium marketing push, I believe, once the patch lands with the Live Event that will be running for a whole ... four weeks? I don't remember precisely. Will this re-invigorate the Anthem user base? It might get some new users, what with reports of Anthem being on sale in stores for as little as $15 in some cases. I don't see it having a lasting effect, though, as the Cataclysm is a timed event. Which is probably why the 10 year cycle the game was originally planned to enjoy is now 7-10 years long according to Andrew Wilson, who also declared his love for engaging 12 year olds with his games. I expect that 7-10 years to be further trimmed to 4-7 years, to 3 years, to maybe a year, as we draw closer to March 2020. Which will be the one year mark.
From there we still have Dragon Age 4, which, from what I last heard, is shaping up rather nicely. Casey has been doing his best to fix the incredibly strained staff and low morale in the studio. Some were still pessimistic about the outcome, but others clearly believed in an upswing. The point is, even if DA4 is a good game, will it be a case of too little, too late? Can the name of Bioware, A Division of EA generate enough hype around their next game to drive up sales? The name Dragon Age? Do keep in mind that, by then, games like Death Stranding, Cyberpunk 2077 and even Final Fantasy 7 Remake will be released, perhaps setting their own standards in the industry, in terms of gameplay and story telling.
As Bioware tries to further homogenize their gameplay and streamline their story telling to address 12 year olds, as per Andrew Wilson's wishes, how well received do you expect that their next games will be in the highly competitive AAA gaming industry, when in so far, Bioware has demonstrated that they cannot keep up or catch up to their competition? How unlikely is it that Bioware will be taken behind the shed and Old Yellered like so many other EA studios before them? Slim? None? Do you expect EA to simply keep on pumping millions into them, with low margin RoI? When their stock price is down ~ 33% compared to last year? No. They will simply axe Bioware and move on to the next victim.
Do excuse me for my overly long essay, I didn't intend to start it out as such.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 26, 2019 15:57:43 GMT
The world doesn't revolve around Bioware's fanbase. You heard of this company, nVidia? NVidia is the predominant graphics card designer out there for PCs. Most PCs with a dedicated GPU have a nVidia GPU installed. Nvidia has this CEO, mr. Jensen Huang. About a year ago Mr. Huang got on a stage and announced nVidia's latest line of GPUs. With a few hiccups on launch, the cards mainly worked. But they were too highly priced, didn't offer enough of a performance uplift and were bloated with features that nobody really asked or cared for. As a result, nVidia, in their financial call, admitted that their revenue was considerably lower compared to other years because, in spite of higher margins, not enough people were buying their products. As a result, a few weeks ago, Mr. Huang got on stage and told their fanbase " we listened" and then went on to release a new line of cards that performed better than the previous ones, at the same price points. Now, nVidia doesn't have Papa EA to back them up, when they fuck up, so they rely entirely on their fanbase, but even so, how many screw ups do you think EA would have covered them, if they did? One? Two? Three? So you see, the world may not revolve around Bioware's fanbase, but Bioware's world, whether they like it or not, does.
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