Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 1, 2019 17:39:14 GMT
You may have an argument with the Dragon Age franchise there, but that has never been the case with Mass Effect. Only because a couple of the ME games predate Bio adopting that design principle. I suppose you could try to make an argument that Bio shouldn't apply that principle to the ME series, but I can't envision what such an argument would look like be. Why shouldn't Bio do this? Edit: Well, actually, it would look like someone trying to cover up homophobia or something unsavory like that. Given the way Bio feels about such things, I imagine it would be dismissed out of hand anyway. Nice attempt to insinuate homophobia in the argument, there. Seriously Alan, even trolling, you used to be better than this? Not to mention you completely deflected from the point too. Why do I even bother responding to you anymore?
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 2, 2019 2:47:12 GMT
Mass Effect 5 you say?...we have dismissed that claim....we are still waiting for ME4,....Andromeda was nothing more than a glorified side quest with the cast from Scooby Doo.... No it wasn't. It's a good game and it is number 4. You can not like it but it's the 4th ME like it or not.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 2, 2019 2:48:15 GMT
Pandering to the loudest and often the most stupid, worst, and toxic parts of the fanbase will KILL a series faster than anything. In my opinion, they are listening to the most stupid, worst and toxic parts, but not of the fanbase. Nope. Thankfully they aren't pandering to the whining loud minority.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 2, 2019 2:55:37 GMT
Mass Effect 5 you say?...we have dismissed that claim....we are still waiting for ME4,....Andromeda was nothing more than a glorified side quest with the cast from Scooby Doo.... Hey, that's an insult.... .... To Scooby Doo! Comparing that classic kids cartoon show to that dribble.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 2, 2019 14:54:36 GMT
In my opinion, they are listening to the most stupid, worst and toxic parts, but not of the fanbase. Nope. Thankfully they aren't pandering to the whining loud minority. No U
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 3, 2019 10:01:15 GMT
Seems an unnecessary petition as I'm sure the 5th game in the franchise is already in early development (as hinted by Casey and others). Doubt we'll hear anything official until well after the 4th Dragon Age game is out.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 3, 2019 21:04:41 GMT
Only because a couple of the ME games predate Bio adopting that design principle. I suppose you could try to make an argument that Bio shouldn't apply that principle to the ME series, but I can't envision what such an argument would look like be. Why shouldn't Bio do this? Edit: Well, actually, it would look like someone trying to cover up homophobia or something unsavory like that. Given the way Bio feels about such things, I imagine it would be dismissed out of hand anyway. Nice attempt to insinuate homophobia in the argument, there. Seriously Alan, even trolling, you used to be better than this? Not to mention you completely deflected from the point too. Why do I even bother responding to you anymore? Wait a second. I specifically said that it would look like homophobia, as opposed to actually being such. I thought my edit would have cleared up the ambiguity there. My point was that if you want Bio to disavow this game design principle, it will be an inherently tough fight for you; you'll have to overcome suspicion that your argument is a pretext. (This is a subtype of the issue Johnathan Haidt has been talking about lately. When people proceed from different value axioms, the other side's arguments look like obvious lies, and their policy proposals look like, for instance, pointless cruelty.) I didn't intend to deflect either. I didn't take a position on the argument because you didn't make it yet; why shouldn't that policy apply to ME games? The MEU is as inclusive as Thedas, if not more so.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 3, 2019 21:37:16 GMT
Nice attempt to insinuate homophobia in the argument, there. Seriously Alan, even trolling, you used to be better than this? Not to mention you completely deflected from the point too. Why do I even bother responding to you anymore? Wait a second. I specifically said that it would look like homophobia, as opposed to actually being such. I thought my edit would have cleared up the ambiguity there. My point was that if you want Bio to disavow this game design principle, it will be an inherently tough fight for you; you'll have to overcome suspicion that your argument is a pretext. (This is a subtype of the issue Johnathan Haidt has been talking about lately. When people proceed from different value axioms, the other side's arguments look like obvious lies, and their policy proposals look like, for instance, pointless cruelty.) I didn't intend to deflect either. I didn't take a position on the argument because you didn't make it yet; why shouldn't that policy apply to ME games? The MEU is as inclusive as Thedas, if not more so. Your edit is what BROUGHT UP HOMOPHOBIA TO BEGIN WITH!!!. My point was that Bioware is extremely hypocritical when it comes to their game design principle. They're trying to have it both ways, retcon and alter some things that are asked for and "artistic integrity" for others. But attempting to insinuate that NOT giving into the hypocrisy "makes you look homophobic" is a clear attempt to make people either back off or shift to defend themselves from a rather ugly insinuation.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 3, 2019 21:43:50 GMT
do i need to get the popcorn for this thread as well?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 3, 2019 22:37:02 GMT
do i need to get the popcorn for this thread as well? Don't forget the pizzas and beer! 😉
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Post by ComingOfShadows on Aug 3, 2019 23:36:51 GMT
That is the meanest petition i recall reading. Insulting someone while telling them to make something for you. lol. I can agree with some of the sentiments but the way its written... thats just silly
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Post by Phantom on Aug 4, 2019 0:48:23 GMT
do i need to get the popcorn for this thread as well? Don't forget the pizzas and beer! 😉 There will be plenty of pizza, beer(all stripes), other snacks and other drinks as well.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 4, 2019 0:51:32 GMT
Don't forget the pizzas and beer! 😉 There will be plenty of pizza, beer(all stripes), other snacks and other drinks as well. Yay! 😅
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Post by Phantom on Aug 4, 2019 0:56:28 GMT
There will be plenty of pizza, beer(all stripes), other snacks and other drinks as well. Yay! 😅 no problem
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 1:19:34 GMT
I'm partial to Mike's Hard Lemonade and, instead of popcorn and pizza, I'd prefer potato chips, but only the kind with the ripples, OK?
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Post by Phantom on Aug 4, 2019 1:32:24 GMT
I'm partial to Mike's Hard Lemonade and, instead of popcorn and pizza, I'd prefer potato chips, but only the kind with the ripples, OK? that is perfectly alright.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 5, 2019 10:48:17 GMT
Nope. Thankfully they aren't pandering to the whining loud minority. Is that why they are going from one resounding success to the next? In all honesty, who do you think they are listening to and pandering to and if they are, why aren't their games receiving the critical acclaim of the past, nor the success that the rest of the business does?
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Post by clips7 on Aug 6, 2019 2:54:09 GMT
Mass Effect 5 you say?...we have dismissed that claim....we are still waiting for ME4,....Andromeda was nothing more than a glorified side quest with the cast from Scooby Doo.... No it wasn't. It's a good game and it is number 4. You can not like it but it's the 4th ME like it or not. C'mon Griffith....in posting that, you know there was some sarcasm/joking there... .....i respect that you and others like the game...regardless of how i felt about the game, i have always stated that while it wasn't a bad game, it wasn't a very good ME game and the game sales, and the cancellation of the DLC proves it. Is it unfair to compare it to the trilogy?....yeah a bit, but the game just based on its own merits, just wasn't that good.... Andromeda had a mediorce story with boring characters and rehashed ideas from the trilogy in terms of what the Kett was doing to the Angarians...(felt very much like what the Reapers was doing with other alien races/ transforming them..etc).....writing just wasn't up to the task of being interesting and compelling....there are still some interesting mysteries to be resolved in Andromeda, but if there ever is an Andromeda 2, the writing and character development needs to be a more cohesive and solid product.... Yes...all joking aside Andromeda is basically ME4.....
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 6, 2019 3:05:08 GMT
Nope. Thankfully they aren't pandering to the whining loud minority. Is that why they are going from one resounding success to the next? In all honesty, who do you think they are listening to and pandering to and if they are, why aren't their games receiving the critical acclaim of the past, nor the success that the rest of the business does? Andromeda was full of issues at launch and it had the added downside of being without Shep. It got mixed reviews from fans and critics but is overall liked from most. Some dont but most do from what I've seen. Anthem was just a colossal mistake and one that very well could be good just wasn't ready. They are releasing games before they should with EA pushing them to. Issue with Andromeda was a failed idea pushing them to abort and start fresh. Anthem just wasn't ready.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 6, 2019 3:07:45 GMT
No it wasn't. It's a good game and it is number 4. You can not like it but it's the 4th ME like it or not. C'mon Griffith....in posting that, you know there was some sarcasm/joking there... .....i respect that you and others like the game...regardless of how i felt about the game, i have always stated that while it wasn't a bad game, it wasn't a very good ME game and the game sales, and the cancellation of the DLC proves it. Is it unfair to compare it to the trilogy?....yeah a bit, but the game just based on its own merits, just wasn't that good.... Andromeda had a mediorce story with boring characters and rehashed ideas from the trilogy in terms of what the Kett was doing to the Angarians...(felt very much like what the Reapers was doing with other alien races/ transforming them..etc).....writing just wasn't up to the task of being interesting and compelling....there are still some interesting mysteries to be resolved in Andromeda, but if there ever is an Andromeda 2, the writing and character development needs to be a more cohesive and solid product.... Yes...all joking aside Andromeda is basically ME4..... Sorry sometimes hard to tell when its sarcasm. Personally I thought the story was decent and i liked most characters with one exception * pushes Liam out of airlock*.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 6, 2019 11:40:57 GMT
It got mixed reviews from fans and critics but is overall liked from mostWhere are you getting this from? Everyone I hear talking about Andromeda, is roasting the fuck out of it. Some dont but most do from what I've seen Again, where? Do you have numbers? Mark Darrah in that Eurogamer interview admitted himself that the game was deeply flawed, as per his own words and Bioware Montreal was later shut down. Even Bioware agrees that the game was terrible and EA decided to simply cut their loses and run. Issue with Andromeda was a failed idea pushing them to abort and start fresh. Anthem just wasn't ready. So you're saying that because the same thing happened twice, it won't happen a third time? On what grounds? Plausible doubt? I see a repeat offender.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 6, 2019 17:01:26 GMT
The problems were a bit different. ME:A's original vision proved to be technologically unfeasible. Anthem seems to have not really had a coherent vision in the first place. (If the devs had admitted to themselves that they were doing a Destiny clone, things would have gone much better.)
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 6, 2019 17:09:34 GMT
The problems were a bit different. ME:A's original vision proved to be technologically unfeasible. Anthem seems to have not really had a coherent vision in the first place. (If the devs had admitted to themselves that they were doing a Destiny clone, things would have gone much better.) Which is why I said you make a smaller title, buy yourself some time, build your tools, retain relevance, fix your brand name and build up you strength and then you go for the big one. You make go make an Andromeda original scope title for a second time, without the tools, with the reputation you have now, without a hook, with so much discontent and prejudice towards you and release a titles that's even 5% off mark, you're dead. Remake the foundation, adapt to the new technologies because next gen is right around the corner, show the audience you care, that you still got it and then move in for the kill. Right now is the time to heal.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 6, 2019 20:09:40 GMT
I just don't see that happening after DA2. A smaller title would make the project look like a bottom-feeding cash grab, and increase rather than decrease risk.I liked the DA2 concept, but when you execute well and the project fails anyway, the concept isn't workable.
Anyway, there's no reason to think that a smaller design changes anything about crunch practices. A smaller game gets a smaller budget. A hypothetical smaller ME game would end up in the same position as the larger one, with more devs moved over to DA5, Anthem 2, or whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 20:58:01 GMT
Andromeda was full of issues at launch and it had the added downside of being without Shep. It got mixed reviews from fans and critics but is overall liked from most. Some dont but most do from what I've seen. Anthem was just a colossal mistake and one that very well could be good just wasn't ready. They are releasing games before they should with EA pushing them to. Issue with Andromeda was a failed idea pushing them to abort and start fresh. Anthem just wasn't ready. Did some people hate Andromeda, because it didn't include Shepard? Bioware has been telling us for years that Shepard's story ends with ME3. So far, they've been true to their word.
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