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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Jul 18, 2020 0:29:23 GMT
Hhmmm. Clear with armor,rolls, main/off hand. If you still had increased damage with everything and not many tests, strange about my tests: different enemies, levels, armor, number of checks etc. Still the same result: nothing. Maybe my MofD is bugged. It can't be "nothing" all the time; close to + 20 % should be seen anyway. I don't know if it is possible a fix for one thing has messed with the damage from this ability. I did not word my post very precisely though, it may read like every hit with MoD was higher than every hit without, but the every there just meant every average for the weapon and crit or backstab was higher. For instance, the offhand regular hits were ~26-35 over time. With MoD the range was 30-42. So sometimes a MoD hit could be lower than a good regular hit, but on average it worked out to more damage. The damage numbers on screen should be within one. I think someone already did this, but it can be possible to find the memory address for hit points of a certain enemy and log the damage changes. Another thing though is that if there are too many effects at once, all of the damage numbers might not appear. I might have missed something, but I thought at this point the only difference was maybe with off-hand paralyze, where I get them to work off-hand, but you posted they didn't seem to work for you. And then maybe spell resist, but that is too hard to see at low spell resist anyway. Other than that, don't know which rune bit I might have missed in the posts. capn233 , have a huge (meaning several) question for you if you do not mind explaining again and again (as suspect since there is much information). About a rogue. Will explain first why ask. Read explanations, information in internet, made tests, checks in PTs. The thing is - read e.g. wiki in English, but after reading the same information in other languages got really confused about rogue attack, damage, weapons (you have mentioned daggers and full-sized weapon e.g.) - such things (there are more of them). Read about your "str-rogue" which just added confusion - the main word here. There are many guestions but the main e.g. 1) About Attributes connected with attack and damage. According to the English version (https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Attributes_(Origins)#Cunning) there is one explanation, but in other languages information was different or not full. Interested here is str + dex. According to wiki a) str and dex are important for rogues. What is what? Attack and damage I mean. Really, the damage and attribute calculations are basically the same for every class, except that a couple have ways to modify the calculation. That is, rogue can use cunning value instead of strength if Lethality talent is taken. Or Arcane Warrior can use magic instead of strength for damage if Combat Magic is obtained. Will group some things: It depends on weapon type. For 2h swords, axes, and mauls; or 1h swords, axes, or maces, only strength is used for the attribute based damage. For daggers, longbows, and shortbows, it adds half of strength and half of dexterity together, and uses that for the attribute based damage. Although more accurately, whenever a calculation uses an attribute, it is the displayed value - 10 (it basically doesn't count base attribute). But if it is a strength only weapon (like a 1h axe), then the dex will not improve damage, it can just boost attack. So that is more or less how strength rogue can work, it is just that since cunning is lower, you don't improve the rogue talents very much. Like Deft Hands, or whatever else scales with cunning. But with high strength score, you can wear heavier armor. Each point over the base value of 10 from either strength or dexterity adds 0.5 points to attack value. So if you have 20 strength and 20 dexterity, your attributes add 10 points to attack. If you had 30 strength and 10 dexterity, you would also get 10 points added to attack. Or the other way around, 10 strength and 30 dexterity is also 10 points added. This bonus to attack does not depend on weapon. Hopefully above made this more clear. The damage calculation is pretty complicated, that is why it is hard to do it by hand. I have a spreadsheet dainbramage made for comparing dps, and even so it is a chore to alter things to look at the numbers at different levels.
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jul 18, 2020 14:26:03 GMT
I don't know if it is possible a fix for one thing has messed with the damage from this ability. I did not word my post very precisely though, it may read like every hit with MoD was higher than every hit without, but the every there just meant every average for the weapon and crit or backstab was higher. For instance, the offhand regular hits were ~26-35 over time. With MoD the range was 30-42. So sometimes a MoD hit could be lower than a good regular hit, but on average it worked out to more damage. Alright. More detailed description is always good. Though the fact remains: my MofD did nothing, even if see at "average". Given a chance, will check with other PTs. The damage numbers on screen should be within one. You mean if I e.g. have electro damage + damage to darkspawn + fire damage = it all should work (exapmle WITHOUT ParRunes in th main hand so damage runes should workd in off-hand)? If so how should it look like on the screen? Just higher white number that includes basic damage + other damage runes? I might have missed something, but I thought at this point the only difference was maybe with off-hand paralyze, where I get them to work off-hand, but you posted they didn't seem to work for you. And then maybe spell resist, but that is too hard to see at low spell resist anyway. Other than that, don't know which rune bit I might have missed in the posts. Will repost with one note you have mentioned above: main hand - only ParRunes/ off-hand - only one type of rune (no "many effects anyway). Runes still under question are: to the darkspawn and to undead. 1) Darkspawn runes: do not understand what it was. Maybe you know. My post Dead TrenchesIn off-hand was crow dagger (15 crit) with two runes +10/6 damage to darkspawn (in Duncan dagger 8+8 SR - I used all the time in off-hand). Took the crow with damage to darkspawn as simply did not know if it could work considering the situation "runes in main-hand weapon work, in off-hand - no". What runes actually work in off-hand here is difficult to check (only damage type). Turns out in the area I was it was better to have "damage-runes". Did not return to the camp, just used that crow dagger, it has good stats anyway, and + 4 dex is not a huge loss (even w/o it rushed through the area). As for how it works (runes + damage to darkspawn):- with backstabs (any type) - they do not work, checked many times; BUT very rare noticed it did make additional damage under stun like dirty fight I mean - that is strange - as simple damage (no stun or anything) - work just fine. 2) Undead runes: the same thing, only instead if "darkspawn" had "undead". BUT actually do not remember what was during the fight. I mean: had addinional numbers or no, or it was like with darkspawn runes (Redcliffe). And no saves to check it again. So here it is about two runes. With "darkspawn" it is really confusing. For 2h swords, axes, and mauls; or 1h swords, axes, or maces, only strength is used for the attribute based damage. For daggers, longbows, and shortbows, it adds half of strength and half of dexterity together, and uses that for the attribute based damage. Although more accurately, whenever a calculation uses an attribute, it is the displayed value - 10 (it basically doesn't count base attribute). Damage based on str with full-sized + damage based on dex that uses BOTH str + dex with dagger - 10, but + 10 to attack? -------- So if understood right, e.g. such rogue as 50/50 str/dex with weapons "main hand - full-sized/off-hand - dagger", will have damage and attack from str and dex and weapons (with calculations), will have dodges (as have dex), and can use heavy armor?
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Post by capn233 on Jul 18, 2020 23:24:03 GMT
You mean if I e.g. have electro damage + damage to darkspawn + fire damage = it all should work (exapmle WITHOUT ParRunes in th main hand so damage runes should workd in off-hand)? If so how should it look like on the screen? Just higher white number that includes basic damage + other damage runes? Any of the damage runes in the off-hand should work for normal style off-hand hits. But I have never seen them work for backstab, off-hand hits. Main-hand runes have always worked for me (normal hit or backstab). I haven't noticed any exception to this based on combinations of runes. But I don't ever use Slow runes, so I can't say anything about them. Silverite - Darkspawn I might not understand what was observed. I thought you saw that they worked in off-hand if it was a normal hit, but did not work in off-hand for a backstab hit. If so, that is what I have seen. I don't know why it might have worked sometimes with a backstab. For mainhand, I think it should work for all main-hand hits. Cold Iron - Undead Should be the same as above. The attribute damage is calculated for each weapon individually. So if a rogue (or any character really) has Starfang in mainhand and Rose's in offhand then attribute damage works like this: Starfang: gets its attribute modifier multiplied by (strength - 10) only. Rose's Thorn: gets its attribute modifier multiplied by 0.5*[(strength-10)+(dexterity-10)] Since the character only has one attack score, the attack bonus from attributes is also 0.5*[(strength-10)+(dexterity-10)], and the attack score is used for both weapons. The reason you can still potentially do more damage with a fullsize in the mainhand than another dagger, even with a good deal of dexterity investment, is because the fullsize weapons have higher base damage.
**edit: one thing that is confusing / misleading in the game descriptions is that weapons will say "strength modifier," but that should really say "attribute modifier," since it is only purely strength for 2h and fullsize 1h weapons.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jul 19, 2020 6:59:27 GMT
Any of the damage runes in the off-hand should work for normal style off-hand hits. But I have never seen them work for backstab, off-hand hits. Main-hand runes have always worked for me (normal hit or backstab). I haven't noticed any exception to this based on combinations of runes. But I don't ever use Slow runes, so I can't say anything about them. I meant your other note The damage numbers on screen should be within one. Thus was my post further about that. Some accident then. Yes, forgot about slow runes. Have never noticed anything anywhere from them. The attribute damage is calculated for each weapon individually. So if a rogue (or any character really) has Starfang in mainhand and Rose's in offhand then attribute damage works like this: Starfang: gets its attribute modifier multiplied by (strength - 10) only. Rose's Thorn: gets its attribute modifier multiplied by 0.5*[(strength-10)+(dexterity-10)] Since the character only has one attack score, the attack bonus from attributes is also 0.5*[(strength-10)+(dexterity-10)], and the attack score is used for both weapons. So "-10" to everything. Good to know. Thank you for your help.
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Post by capn233 on Jul 19, 2020 21:20:44 GMT
Some accident then. Yes, forgot about slow runes. Have never noticed anything anywhere from them. The Silverite and Undead runes should be accurate on screen, I don't think the enemy types have resistance to them like the flat 5% elemental resistance on Nightmare (which is why +5 fire rune is "4" on screen, or really 4.75). Of course elemental runes can be scaled lower if enemy has more than the default resistance, like demon class is 50% fire resistant.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jul 21, 2020 10:57:35 GMT
The Silverite and Undead runes should be accurate on screen, I don't think the enemy types have resistance to them like the flat 5% elemental resistance on Nightmare (which is why +5 fire rune is "4" on screen, or really 4.75). Of course elemental runes can be scaled lower if enemy has more than the default resistance, like demon class is 50% fire resistant. That is understandable, yes, but you have not explained your other line, if it is not difficult The damage numbers on screen should be within one. ------ Alright, maybe any advice? Have another no-pot-solo, but it is in your other thread "Shapeshifter". Started it as pot-PT, but later turned out it was no-pot, so continued as no-pot. Described PTs and the build in that thread (what, how, when etc). And now have been trying to pass one encounter for several days: "Five Pages, Four Mages". At first thought there should not be any problemes with my super spells. And there is not. No-resist is the probleme - paralyzed in 99% of attemps. Have tried everything already (tactics, balms, etc), but no resist, spam, level - such things - make this impossible. Try every day several times during the day with million of reloads each time. Nothing helps. Now launch that encounter hoping for simple luck or bug (which can be in DAO). Really want to continue SS PT even without full understanding of that spec, but have plans for it anyway, checks, comparisons, many things to do. But simply stuck. Maybe any advice and thoughts about it? If not, will continue hoping for luck.
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Post by capn233 on Jul 21, 2020 21:37:37 GMT
The Silverite and Undead runes should be accurate on screen, I don't think the enemy types have resistance to them like the flat 5% elemental resistance on Nightmare (which is why +5 fire rune is "4" on screen, or really 4.75). The damage numbers on screen should be within one. All enemies have 5% elemental resistance, that is to fire, electricity, cold, nature, and spirit. The specific class can add on more or tweak it. What I meant by "within one" was just that the damage on screen was within one point of actual damage. So for a GM Lightning rune against an Ogre, it displays +4. It is rated at +5, but since 5% resistance to the element, it is scaled to 4.75. The display isn't rounding really, it is truncating, so it just drops anything after the decimal. So +4 displayed is within one point of the actual damage (actually only 0.75 different). There shouldn't be resistance to Cold Iron and Silverite, they should show the rated damage. You need a spell that is basically insta-cast to lock the Mage, at least if your spell resistance is so low. Glyph of Paralysis on the mage might work. Or if you had Force Field, that should work. Other than that, I don't know that there will be a great way through this encounter, the mage can spam a lot of spells.[/quote]
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jul 24, 2020 9:22:04 GMT
All enemies have 5% elemental resistance, that is to fire, electricity, cold, nature, and spirit. The specific class can add on more or tweak it. What I meant by "within one" was just that the damage on screen was within one point of actual damage. So for a GM Lightning rune against an Ogre, it displays +4. It is rated at +5, but since 5% resistance to the element, it is scaled to 4.75. The display isn't rounding really, it is truncating, so it just drops anything after the decimal. So +4 displayed is within one point of the actual damage (actually only 0.75 different). There shouldn't be resistance to Cold Iron and Silverite, they should show the rated damage. Now clarified. Interesting: was there some real probleme to show real numbers (I mean some technical complications during game creation) or it is from the category "lazy/no time". Even if the number is not huge and actually those are details if to think of that, it still matters to me e.g. to see the damage I can add. You need a spell that is basically insta-cast to lock the Mage, at least if your spell resistance is so low. Glyph of Paralysis on the mage might work. Or if you had Force Field, that should work. Other than that, I don't know that there will be a great way through this encounter, the mage can spam a lot of spells.[ Yeah, my great spells include that one too fo combo. Yesterday after million of reloads finally got lucky: that hostile mage behavior played part in it mostly. But thank you for thinking of option in any case. Now can continure Shapeshifter PT.
------
Edited.
Last "DW Rogue-no-pot-solo-PT".
Not doing anything about calculations as have wanted was bothering me (got tired of that feeling already).
Calculated some damage from cun-depending passsive and DW-tree.
CUN: took the final attubute with final gear - 78
Took
- The tainted Blood - Bard "Song of Courage" - Exploit weakness passive - DWE + DWM
Note: did not use MofD + 20 % as did not notice it was working in my cases.
After calculations got additional damage
18.6 (TB) + 5,4 (bard) + 11, 764 (EW) + 2 (DWE) + 4 (DWM) = 41, 764 damage
The avrg damage with paralyzed enemies was 100-120.
If made right calculations (everywhere) it is aboout 35 % of the damage (took 120).
Only do not know if it is good or bad to have such numbers.
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Post by capn233 on Oct 27, 2020 23:07:03 GMT
Was considering doing a "fists" solo, but I haven't decided if I want to try to do it with no health pots.
Otherwise, started with the notion that it would be a dwarf nominally SnS warrior build since the character would have a shield equipped (for bonuses). But then I was thinking since I couldn't use weapon talents, it might make more sense to go rogue, even though warrior gains more health and damage per level (and also stamina, but that shouldn't matter for fists). Also warrior can gain a lot of spell resist in a chunk with Templar and KCP, but rogue has stealth and could maybe keep a set of daggers with runes to hold in hands just for resist.
I haven't actually finished an entire solo with dwarf commoner (did the origin, but didn't go past that), so thought maybe I would do that one. Although there really isn't a great reason to do it from a practical standpoint since loot, XP, and gold is not so good in comparison to most other origins.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Oct 28, 2020 10:02:01 GMT
Was considering doing a "fists" solo, but I haven't decided if I want to try to do it with no health pots. Otherwise, started with the notion that it would be a dwarf nominally SnS warrior build since the character would have a shield equipped (for bonuses). But then I was thinking since I couldn't use weapon talents, it might make more sense to go rogue, even though warrior gains more health and damage per level (and also stamina, but that shouldn't matter for fists). Also warrior can gain a lot of spell resist in a chunk with Templar and KCP, but rogue has stealth and could maybe keep a set of daggers with runes to hold in hands just for resist. I haven't actually finished an entire solo with dwarf commoner (did the origin, but didn't go past that), so thought maybe I would do that one. Although there really isn't a great reason to do it from a practical standpoint since loot, XP, and gold is not so good in comparison to most other origins. As understand you have done fighting anyway, even not much. What was the strategy for "fists" solo with several enemies? (during escape in Origin e.g.) Added: if excitment is present (or something similar to this notion), where does it manifest? Intersting idea.
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Post by capn233 on Oct 28, 2020 23:37:14 GMT
Played it a bit after I made the post. I did part of the Dwarf Commoner origin with "fists," used a warrior and started to build it like SnS sort of. Took Powerful and Shield Bash at creation. I only played it through the Proving. Actually I couldn't beat the third fighter without a health pot.
Anyway even with that small amount of combat, it wasn't particularly fun. No talents and just punching things might get way too repetitive. I wouldn't get any real usable talents with this class.
I will probably restart as a rogue and see how that is. I don't think it would be quite as monotonous.
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Post by capn233 on Nov 1, 2020 12:51:20 GMT
Played a bit more, and tried a few other things. I don't know why I had so much trouble with the third proving fighter (silent sister) earlier, if it was missing animation cancels or what, but I could beat her without pots with the build when I reran through a couple more times on the warrior with all strength.
And then it was still manageable all the way to the Beraht fight. Build after the Proving was Powerful, Precise Striking, Shield Bash, Dual Weapon Sweep (assigned for this origin/class), all attributes to strength. The problem here was still the lack of any CC power whatsoever. Since the tree is really "weapon and shield," and not "fist and shield," can't use the offensive talents with just the shield equipped. So there is no way to really avoid stuns or damage. I did get annoyed and equip Battledress + Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering, + High Regard, at which point the fight was passable without too much effort.
Retried a warrior character, putting all initial attributes into Dexterity, and took Precise Striking and Shield Defense at creation. Unlike Bash, could activate Shield Defense with just a shield but no sword. With points in dex and Shield Defense up, I was dodging a lot of hits in the Proving. Problem was that with low strength, I was only punching for 1-2 points of damage per hit (fists only scale with strength, so I couldn't damage them fast enough.
Decided to go ahead and try rogue. Initial attributes all into strength, Dirty Fighting, Below the Belt and Stealth at creation. You don't have to have anything equiped to use any of these abilities, and with one stun and one interrupt / debuff this character felt much more powerful than the above, and more fun since it wasn't auto-attack only. Damage was good in part because fists get backstab bonus, so I could use Dirty Fighting and flank. The Beraht fight required a whole lot of kiting, but after the two mooks were killed, I could simply kite Baraht, use Dirty Fighting when off cooldown, and either punch at him twice or mix in Below the Belt once.
Continued this character through Korcari. So far I have cleared the map through the bridge with the Emissary. Skill point was saved at Level 3 (could get more Rogue talents anyway), and at 4 I took Deft Hands 2 and Deadly Strike (also can activate with fists). Used one Acid Flask in the spot where four genlock rogues ambush you. Otherwise it was a game of pulling one or two repeatedly. The Alpha Wolf was beaten using the nearby chest, where I would stun with Dirty Fighting, used Below the Belt, and then move back to the chest while they were on cooldown, repeat.
This character won't be able to beat Gazarath in a "fair" manner (similar to how the above warrior couldn't beat Beraht), so I don't know if I will skip or cheese it.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Nov 1, 2020 13:58:20 GMT
It seems with a warrior it is like boxing using the same boxing tricks like block/shield wall or something; nothing else to do. With a rogue talents more like aikido according to the description. And it seems more fun, can use some talents at least, suitable for a rogue. You will proceed as a rogue without checking a warrior, capn233?
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Post by capn233 on Nov 2, 2020 0:42:55 GMT
I don't know what else to check with warrior unfortunately. The problem is that any of the available CC powers require a weapon equiped. If I could use Bash or Pummel without a sword / axe / dagger in main hand then it would be straight forward. If I did use a weapon + shield as one weapon set just to use the shield talents, then switch back to no weapon + shield set for attacks it could be done, although it isn't quite fists only. Only other alternatives would be to drink health potions, or use a few starting DLC items (Battledress of the Provocateur, Cinch, Lion's Paw).
The rogue I have taken to the Tower of Ishal so far. Since Gazarath is not vulnerable to stun at all, only knockdown, there really isn't a practical way to beat him in melee with a rogue using no health. All of the rest of Korcari was possible with fists using no health pots. It was just very tedious.
For the outside approach to Ishal, I used the script to drop the party completely. Still tedious. The first room of the first floor is going to be a problem, it is hard to break it and you can't just drop out of combat. I think I will have to use a few grenades to pass the first room.
If I end up getting too frustrated, I might switch gears and do a different type of solo, not allowing consumables at all, but allowing one or two DLC items. Probably would finally do a Ranger solo with that rule set.
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Nov 4, 2020 14:37:41 GMT
How you describe "fist -PT", must say you have really great patience. The word "tedious" is frightening already after some "no-pot-solo-PTs". If such 'fist-PT'proceed, it will be really interesting to know your reaction to it. Can imagine. --- Confess, thought of Warrior-Archer-solo and traps-solo. Think "trap-rogue-PT" could be interesting and educational since I, for example, do not use them and do not know types of traps. Tempting actually. Maybe will try. ------ Great you are back with new ideas, capn233.
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Post by capn233 on Nov 5, 2020 3:30:28 GMT
Build order so far
1. Stealth, BtB (Combat 1, Combat 2); +5 str 2. Deft Hands 1 (Combat 3); +3 str 3. -saved-; +3 str 4. Deadly Strike, Deft Hands 2 (Combat 4) 5. Combat Movement, +3 str J. Stealth 2 6. -saved- (Coercion) 7. Assassin, Mark of Death; +2 str, +1 cun 8. Deft Hands 3, Stealth 3 (Coercion 2); +3 cun
...
Should mention that in Ostagar I bought the Heavy Chainmail set along with a backpack and grenades before going into the Wilds.
Ishal's first room was the most annoying since I couldn't drop out of combat, so had to lure a coupe at a time but not take too much damage. Used an Acid Flask to help damage the Emissary. Dirty Fighting stun then "back-punch." Hit level 6 in there and could not take any rogue talents (as the next ones weren't available until level 8). Ogre took a long time, but was done in melee: Dirty Fighting, punch, punch, run in a circle, repeat. That is more or less foolproof since DF always stuns.
Dog encounter - used an acid flask and fire bomb to weaken a lot of enemies
Lothering Bandits - used an acid flask, fire bomb, and soulrot bomb to weaken / kill mooks.
In town I helped the unscrupulous merchant, then bought a fire bomb and swift salve. Recruited Leliana and Sten, took care of the trap and health potion quest, and then dealt with the mob. Could fight two at a time with luring. Similarly, at the exit, could lure a darkspawn or so at a time. Level 7 I took Assassin, although it took me a while to decide. I am not sure what the second spec will be yet.
After stopping by camp, went to Bann Loren's land. Activated stealth before traveling, didn't get any road encounter. I interrupted the bad guys, and was able to beat them by fighting near a large tree near the back where you can fight one at a time mostly (the two archers move closer for some reason). Then went to Ostagar.
Idea here was to get at least Cailan's boots for dodge. I played through the first part of the map (obtaining Maric's Blade, the shield and the boots). Used an electric and spirit resist for the elite mage near the beginning. Otherwise it was luring and kiting where I usually had to fight a clump of 3 or so by kiting around columns near where the "war council" table is (near where you enter). Equipped Cailan's boots, and replaced Havard's with Cailan's Shield.
Went back to Lothering and got Gentle Path on the way. Activated Bandits Everywhere and took them out. Bandit Leader had to be fought along with a mabari and an archer, I kited them near the ramp area, killing the mabari, then the rogue, then the leader. Took care of the spiders, then did the wolf and bear quest. Stopped by camp, then went to Denerim.
In the market district I activated quests with the Chanter, Mages and the bartender. Fought the duel. Got a Back Alley random encounter on the way to the Pearl. Beat the Crimson Oars (made them empty their pockets), and picked up a body. In the ambush, Kylon tanked basically everything for me. Hit level 8. In the Market, finished Solving Problems, and then dealt with the Oars.
I had wanted to get Combat Stealth and either go to the tower or go to Frostback / Orzammar for gear. But since I am not using weapons, I am not sure I should bother with the latter. Have about 40 gold. I am not sure I will have enough armor rating or regen to beat Uldred if I go right to the Tower though.
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Nov 6, 2020 8:12:06 GMT
Idea here was to get at least Cailan's boots for dodge. I played through the first part of the map (obtaining Maric's Blade, the shield and the boots). Used an electric and spirit resist for the elite mage near the beginning. Otherwise it was luring and kiting where I usually had to fight a clump of 3 or so by kiting around columns near where the "war council" table is (near where you enter). Equipped Cailan's boots, and replaced Havard's with Cailan's Shield. After getting "dodge"-things here, was the difference really noticeable? Mean it really helped with further encounters? Ask also because of SS-Mage from your other thread as after getting some (not all) dodge-things during PT can't say it is such a difference. PTs are different though interesting as it is.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 6, 2020 22:57:06 GMT
Idea here was to get at least Cailan's boots for dodge. I played through the first part of the map (obtaining Maric's Blade, the shield and the boots). Used an electric and spirit resist for the elite mage near the beginning. Otherwise it was luring and kiting where I usually had to fight a clump of 3 or so by kiting around columns near where the "war council" table is (near where you enter). Equipped Cailan's boots, and replaced Havard's with Cailan's Shield. After getting "dodge"-things here, was the difference really noticeable? Mean it really helped with further encounters? Ask also because of SS-Mage from your other thread as after getting some (not all) dodge-things during PT can't say it is such a difference. PTs are different though interesting as it is. Character is a bit more durable with them. He doesn't really have a high defense rating, and chance to dodge seems to make him get hit fewer times. Besides that, the boots have +1 armor enchant, and armor rating is higher than I could get with most other boots anyway.
***
Bought Gorim's Shield for a whole 0.25 HP regen. This is hardly noticeable. If added to Maric's sword I would be up to 1.0, but can't run the sword when punching things obviously. Shield is cheap though, but it also has a pretty low defense rating. On the other hand, the +10 and +20 bonus to ranged defense with Havard's Aegis and Cailan's Shield also seemed noticeable in the early parts of the game with archers.
Frostback Mountains / Orzammar
Just walked around the bounty hunters.
Imrek - I first kited him and the 2H away from the mage, then hit stealth. Looped around and killed the mage before they could get back to me, and I ran to the tent. Imrek walked up first, at this point I just used Dirty Fighting and punched a couple times, then backed up to where he couldn't get to me. After he was dead, I decided to fight the 2H in more open area so I could get backstab punches.
Talked to people, activated main quest line. Went to the Proving just to retrieve the letters for 15 gold, and hit a Key to the City scroll.
Dust Town Ambush - activated stealth, ran to the back area near my old house. From there, could break the group up into one or two at a time.
Key to the City - with it on I went to 20 cunning, so with Deft Hands 3 I could unlock the chest with Gloves of Diligence (+4 armor enchant).
Bought Shadow of the Empire (+2str, +2dex). Usually don't buy this, but it has higher armor than my heavy chainmail did, and I figured since this character doesn't buy weapons I could blow the 20 gold, and I wouldn't be able to buy anything else useful before the Circle. Left for the Lake
Have You Seen Me - boss level abom, can stun reliably with Dirty Fighting but duration is low. Kited him around the tent as needed.
Lake Calenhad / Circle Tower
Spoiled Princess - bought Swift Salve and Incense of Awareness x 2
Quartermaster - bought Swift Salve
Used an Acid Flask on the Greater Rage Demon in the last room on the first floor. Skipped a fair number of optional rooms in order to try to get to the Fade faster. Very generally, Combat Stealth can be abused a lot to make the tower manageable. Boss abomination fought somewhat similarly to the one in the side quest above.
Fade - always a solo anyway. The Burning Man punching worked pretty decently as well. Hit Level 9, Coup De Grace and +3 dex.
Desire Demon with Templar - this is the one right before Sloth, went back to kill after the Fade. At the beginning of the fight, used a Shock and then Soulrot grenade, and tried to finish the demon quickly. Then stealthed, and beat the rest of the units basically one on one.
Greater Rage / Shades - can abuse stealth to break this room into one v one. Used a lesser fire resist and an acid flask here.
Uldred - used a bit of a "loophole" here to beat him without poultices and with basically no health regen. I had fought enough of the enemies and got enough XP from rooms I skipped so I was within around 100 XP of level 10 such that if I killed the third abomination that starts with Uldred I would hit Level 10 during the fight. Idea was to weaken it with the other two, but kill the other two immediately, while damaging Uldred. Then when my health was too low, kill the last one and get the level up (with health refill). One thing I had forgotten, or not noticed was that Uldred's Massive Attack will hit / damage the abominations.
Before entering, activated Incense and Lesser Spirit resist. When the fight started, immediately used Swift Salve and ran to Uldred. Then Littany when aboms close, Mark of Death on Uldred, then Fire Bomb on all abominations and Uldred, then Soulrot on two abominations and Uldred. Then punch Uldred and use Dirty Fighting on Abomination to help keep it on other side of Uldred. Instead of trying to just punch Uldred in the front, I would flank as he swung so I could get "back-punches." For Massive Attack, ran around back and punched. It seemed like if I did this well, then he would also get into a mode where he would try to do a lot of massive attacks in a row, and if I had good enough micro I could damage him without being hit.
Eventually got him down to nearly nothing, and threw a freeze bomb to make sure. Through the fight, kept SS and IA active.
I am not sure if Archon's small regen bonus would have been worth the loss of bit of armor rating from Shadow. I tried it a couple times but died. It at least wasn't enough to make up for mistakes with micro.
Sold stuff to Quartermaster - ~59 gold
To Honnleath
Roadside encounter (mages) - they did most of the work on the darkspawn
Sulcher's Pass - got the control rod. Wanted to see if I could get the Helm of Honnleath
Zevran Encounter - abused Combat Stealth a lot. Mage must be killed first
Honnleath - everything was pretty easy getting to the cellar. But I was hoping I would pick up a couple grenades and a cold resistance, and didn't get any loot like that. The Kitty fight went very poorly, so I reloaded from before the last fight.
To Denerim
Civil War - lot of npc allies, just "backpunched."
Gentle Path popped up again. Was wondering when "Bloody Plains" would pop in, but I can probably beat it now.
Denerim - turned in quests, did the first two marks and break ins for Crime Wave. Had ~82 gold
Back Alley Justice - more Combat Stealth abuse.
Turned in Blood Mage Relative quest, the above, and talked to Kylon for the bonus. ~93 gold
Left for Orz and got Gentle Path yet again
Orzammar
Bought Lifegiver
Dalish Camp / Forest
Sign of Safe Passage, Ironbark, Lost to the Curse, returned Deygan
Left for Honnleath and got the Starmetal encounter.
--
1. Stealth, BtB (Combat 1, Combat 2); +5 str 2. Deft Hands 1 (Combat 3); +3 str 3. -saved-; +3 str 4. Deadly Strike, Deft Hands 2 (Combat 4) 5. Combat Movement, +3 str J. Stealth 2 6. -saved- (Coercion) 7. Assassin, Mark of Death; +2 str, +1 cun 8. Stealth 3, DH3 (Coercion 2); +3 cun 9. Coup De Grace; +3 dex 10. Lethality (Stealing 2); +3 str (42str, 23dex, 23cun)
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Nov 7, 2020 9:27:04 GMT
If you have time, could you, please, make an image or 2/3 of some encounter with fists?
Having fun with this PT it seems, no?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 7, 2020 23:50:08 GMT
If you have time, could you, please, make an image or 2/3 of some encounter with fists? Having fun with this PT it seems, no? I can take some. I have been hopping around a bit after the Tower, did part of the Brecilian Forest and Ruins through the dragon, but character is now in Haven.
Yeah I suppose it is entertaining. There is one issue that has seemed to crop up where I am not sure if it is a bug or just unlucky streaks. It seemed like against a few elite enemies if I was animation canceling the punches, and tried to sneak in a Stealth for an extra crit, then I would get a long string of missed punches until I moved and then tried to attack again. The boss Abomination in the tower, and then recently the Black Vials Revenant in the tower were enemies where that seemed to happen.
I suppose my hit rate wasn't great against them to begin with, but against the Revenant I ended up dying after getting it to like 5% health because all of my punches after that just started to miss. Maybe terrible luck, but it was nearly 20 misses in a row.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 8, 2020 23:47:40 GMT
Instead of just screenshots, recorded a few things. Will upload them overnight. Wish I had recorded Uldred, I looked and there is a save I made post Fade, so can get back to him if I am motivated. *** HonnleathKitty - could stealth at the beginning, activated a lesser fire resist, sniped a Rage demon, then ran and re-stealthed. Went back to the entrance, waited for a little regen, and then dropped stealth. Kitty and a Rage made their way to me. Used MoD on Kitty, then dropped an Acid Flask, which did not kill the Rage at this level. Killed the rage and then Kitty. Resisted a single spell. Was running Havard's for 4% spell resist, and then Creationist Belt + Apprentice Amulet for +10 and +5 fire resist. Level 11, can't get a talent but could add 3 str. Went to Camp. Dark ForestNot much to say here, but I did equip Varathorn's amulet at the end for 20% nature resist. Lured the queen and a couple away, then finished the last ones. Brecilian Forest and RuinsI traded for all the items with the Hermit, so I don't think I will be able to fight him. Would have been annoying anyway. So far I have skipped the Mage's Treasure Revenants. In the ruins I used Varathorn's when poisonous spiders were around. Went to the dragon, who I beat the slow way by using the tree on the left as a spot where I could back into to avoid damage as needed. DenerimGot Gentle Path on the way here. Turned in Sign of Safe Passage, Negotiation Aids. Then I stole from Master Tilver, and had 56g 58s 65c. Went into Genitivi's house and talked to, and killed Weylon. Then went to the Pearl and killed Padan and co. Lake Callenhad, TowerLow Road - stealth, kill blight wolves, then killed Berserkarn. At the lake I finally activated the Mage quests here, and turned in Herbal Magic right away. Killed the Deserters and the Witness. Level 12 - Master Stealth and Exploit Weakness, Coercion 3 and +3str. Went back to Orzammar very quickly to activate Precious Metals (stole 20g from Rogek first). Shah Wyrd - died pretty quickly. Was fortunate the friendly mages didn't nuke me. Black Vial Revenant - here is where I had another string of long misses that I thought may be related to something with fists rather than just attack score. Irving's office - picked up the stuff here. Great Hall - Desire Demon with multiple bewitched Templars - I guess since I had killed Uldred already, the Desire Demon was gone. But the Templars were here. Broke into groups with stealth. Activated Five Pages Four Mages. Sold Godwin the lyrium, then blackmailed him (+60+8 gold), and had 106g 29s 77c. On the way out, did Summoning Sciences. Camp, Road to HavenSold loot, bought Spellward (down to 30g 14s 26c). Trade Route (Five Pages Four Mages) - stealth, kill mage. Then I killed the lackey's and finally the forger. HavenBrought Sten into the beginning for a little extra approval. Then put him back in camp. Shop - bought a Swift Salve, the Shock Trap and Mild Lure Plans (don't actually have traps skill yet). Looted chest for Antivan Boots (+4 spell resist) Recorded fight with Eirik, although it is probably pretty boring. I went through this quest line into the Temple until obtaining Ancient Elven Gloves (+4 spell resist). I thought this would be boring due to having great gear for this level and abusing stealth, but I had two close calls from being overly aggressive and or lazy. Could just stealth so it wasn't a big problem. To the Forest and RuinsCareless Accusations - recorded this too. Killed mage first, moved behind a tree and killed the melee, then killed the archer. Ruins were not bad with current setup, just needed to not fight all enemies simultaneously. At the Arcane Warrior Gem hit Level 13. Skipped the Revenant. Boss Arcane Horror - I have no idea how to beat this guy in melee solo, so I used a longbow. Lair of the Werewolves - overwhelm from a Shadow Wolf left me at ~60% health or so. Fought in small groups, corner to the left of the door is where I go for the first few. Zathrien - recorded this, used all my spell resist gear (Havard's +4, Ancient Elven Glv +4, Antivan Boots +4, Spellward +30, Key to the City +4) for 56% total. But this was pretty anticlimactic, the total video time is 30 seconds. Stealth, moved behind, Mark of Death, then Dirty Fighting, then back-punch. He didn't target me.
River Crossing - recorded this too, stealth and tree cheese.
Dalish Camp - just saved there.
-- 1. Stealth, BtB (Combat 1, Combat 2); +5 str 2. Deft Hands 1 (Combat 3); +3 str 3. -saved-; +3 str 4. Deadly Strike, Deft Hands 2 (Combat 4), +3 str 5. Combat Movement, +3 str J. Stealth 2 6. -saved- (Coercion), +3 str 7. Assassin, Mark of Death; +2 str, +1 cun 8. Stealth 3, DH3 (Coercion 2); +3 cun 9. Coup De Grace; +3 dex 10. Lethality (Stealing 2); +3 str (42str, 23dex, 23cun) 11. -saved-; +3 str 12. Stealth 4, Exploit Weakness (Coercion 3); +3 str 13. -saved-, +3 str (51)
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 10, 2020 3:35:42 GMT
Did go back and redo Uldred. Probably should not have thrown the freeze bomb at the end, but I was getting tired again Level 9 Uldred Level 12 Eirik Level 12 Careless Accusations Level 12 Zathrien Level 13 River Crossing
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Nov 10, 2020 11:07:55 GMT
Thank you for videos (for the second Uldred encouner as well, finally could watch how it all looks). Tell the truth the description of "fist PT" is very far from reality. It indeed looks entertaining and very unusual actually. -- Reminded me of another BW game - Neverwinter Nights, the first part - the same things (builds/gear/team/solo/etc): my first PT was a monk in a robe running really fast and punching enemies with some enchanted mittens. Was damn funny and entertaining as well. -- Yeah I suppose it is entertaining. There is one issue that has seemed to crop up where I am not sure if it is a bug or just unlucky streaks. It seemed like against a few elite enemies if I was animation canceling the punches, and tried to sneak in a Stealth for an extra crit, then I would get a long string of missed punches until I moved and then tried to attack again. The boss Abomination in the tower, and then recently the Black Vials Revenant in the tower were enemies where that seemed to happen.
I suppose my hit rate wasn't great against them to begin with, but against the Revenant I ended up dying after getting it to like 5% health because all of my punches after that just started to miss. Maybe terrible luck, but it was nearly 20 misses in a row. I usually have that kind of luck with Revenants or some elites with the same misses in a row or "almost dead but died myself" - sort of things. It seems for you it is a rare thing. ------ Noticed rather many dodges in videos with strength - rogue build as understand. Actually dodges are noticeable here at least (ref. to the post with question about using "dodge-boots"). Thanks again.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 10, 2020 22:51:47 GMT
So I think it turns out Deadly Strike doesn't really work with fists. You can activate it, and it uses stamina, but the standard punch animation is performed and I doubt it is buffing attack.
One other bit is that I realized that I probably should have tried to steal Vartag's Champion Shield (+12 defense). May have been better for some of the earlier game bits.
***
Log continued...
Denerim
Hillside Path (Wynne)
Took the scrolls to the cleric, turned in Careless Accusations and Restocking the Guild, and talked to Ignacio.
Went to camp and talked to people, and bought both the Tome of Physical Technique and a backpack. After I did that, I thought I should have just bought it from the Circle Tower vendor. Oh well.
Soldier's Peak
Decided to just knock this out because I wasn't really all that motivated to do main plot quests and thought this wouldn't be too bad. I used a lesser fire resist in both of the fights in the main hall. Other than that, I switched to spell resist gear against the final desire demon. Had good luck resisting spells.
Hit level 14. With saved point from 13, and the tome, could get the first three Duelist abilities.
Sold stuff in camp.
Swung by the Kadan Fe camp and killed them.
Urn Temple / Caverns
Rocky Road - got this encounter on the way their. Tried out Warden Commander chest. It has more armor than Shadow, but I am not sure the +15 crit / backstab damage is beating +2 str at all. I need to look into that more with the formula.
Caverns - Stealth, kill...
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Nov 11, 2020 16:25:58 GMT
Decided to just knock this out because I wasn't really all that motivated to do main plot quests Already not so entertaining? If you continue this "Fist PT", could you, please, make some more videos of different encounters?
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