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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 15:51:10 GMT
I can't agree. ME1 is subpar to the rest Andromeda included. Andromeda is what ME1 should have been imho. Did you watch Terminator: Dark Fate?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 15:51:52 GMT
So, do some Anthem skins count as "nothing" for purposes of this thread? To me? Yes. I don't play Anthem.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 7, 2019 15:53:14 GMT
I can't agree. ME1 is subpar to the rest Andromeda included. Andromeda is what ME1 should have been imho. Did you watch Terminator: Dark Fate? Please don't mention that.... ABOMINATION. Like ever.
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Post by Ascend on Nov 7, 2019 15:55:31 GMT
All you've said in this whole long diatribe is that YOU didn't find the characters and story in Andromeda interesting. You haven't (and actually no one here has) been able to objectively state WHY specifically the characters in Andromeda are subpar to the characters AS PRESENTED IN ME1. Firstly, when I say characters, I'm referring to all characters, not just squad mates. Yes, ME1 did not do that great with squad mates after you recruited them, but honestly, I do not see how the Andromeda squad mates are superior. To me, the most memorable squad mate of Andromeda is Liam, and that's because of how bad he is... Peebee was ok, and the rest were boring. But compare Saren to the Archon. Or Udina to...?? Anderson...? There's no Andromeda equivalent of those characters. Even the council, which was designed to be hated, has its place in ME1 and has no real equivalent in Andromeda. Oh yeah, that forgettable Salarian who's name I can't remember and the face is tired chick... There's no Thorian moment in Andromeda, no Sovereign moment... And if you go to a larger scale, the 'characters' are still superior in ME1. Take the Geth compared to the Kett. Or the Protheans to the Jardaan. All those were implemented in a superior manner in ME1. The characters in Andromeda had far more depth and we were given far more intricate insights into their backgrounds than we EVER got in ME1. The characters in ME1 are paper dolls by comparison. Really? In ME1 the squad mates were more a representation of their whole species, which is understandable considering it was a fully new universe. Most of their background came from the interactions with them before you recruited them. Let's take a look. Kaiden is boring. No doubt. Ashley is actually a good character, because she is her own thing. She's arguably racist (or speciesist) and has an attitude, but loves poetry and cares for family. Wrex, obviously quite aggressive and definitely not modest, he's the most driven of all the squad mates. Interestingly, he's most likely the best character after you recruited him. Tali represents sort of a beggar-like species, or at least that's how they're seen. She's on a pilgrimage to prove herself to her people. Her main trait is her curiosity and insight into technology. Liara is the most connected to the main plot, and represents a 'teenager' of her species. Her main traits are her shyness combined with her intelligence. Garrus is a very principled individual, which ties into how the Turians are. But he is having internal doubts regarding certain things, which arguably makes him shallow. I did not feel that way about him though. I remember all that, and those are summaries. By comparison... Cora is a biotic that was on some sort of Asari commando team and that is the motivation to find the Asari Ark. Drack is a grandpa with comic relief. Vetra is an ex smuggler/mercenary that takes care of her sister. She is only liked because she's a female Turian. I doubt many would like her so much if she was a male Turian. Liam is the worst squad mate in Mass Effect history. Half the time he's completely impossible to understand. And basically he's a confused security guard. Jaal is a good representation of his species, as in being emotionally honest. He's a resistance fighter in protection of his species. Peebee is... My favorite Andromeda squad mate, simply because she has a non-typical attitude which I actually can sympathize with. Yes, they have loyalty missions, and yet here, they failed to be memorable for me. The most memorable one was Liam's. It actually had good humor, which is why it is the most memorable, but, it did not improve upon his character at all. The other memorable one is Peebee's, because in some intricate manner it gives the sense of being slightly relevant to the overarching plot. The rest, I don't even remember... And that says a lot about how 'good' these characters really are. It was ME2 that brought actual character development into Mass Effect. I never said anything else. Tali and Garrus would not even be characters had they not been fleshed out in ME2. Garrus, probably true. Tali, not so much. Many people liked Tali even in ME1. With Jaal, we were not told about his politics or his family relationships in a single conversation of dialogue, we were SHOWN over several quests how interacted with his mentors (the Moshae) and his family (his brothers and sisters), and his old-time adversary (Aksul). We were shown his level of influence among his friends (in the Resistance) and others (while recruiting members for the Resistance). We were even shown in "dreams" - the star chart in his room. All true, and, this was kind of a given considering they were really the only new species introduced, aside from the Kett. Anything less would have been a (bigger) failure. But is all this really superior to say, Wrex in ME1? Remember Wrex and Fist and all the build-up up to that moment? Leaving just a small snippet here... Not only do we see Wrex's attitude, in these two minutes, listen how many story elements are connected here... We were also snown multiple sides to PeeBee and Liam. Peebee, yes. Liam has no sides. But in ME1 we were also shown multiple sides to Ashley, Wrex, and yes, even Garrus. As for the story, Andromeda's story has a slow intro... but an immense potential to build into a great Trilogy. ME, on the other had opened with it's best story and then, as you suggest, fizzled on that front... leading directly to an ending that was disappointing and destined to be disappointing from the start BECAUSE ME1 kept alluding to "great things" that Bioware had no idea how to go about fulfilling. You said it exactly right... Potential. ME1 also had immense potential which was ultimately ruined in the sequels, but its own merit regarding plot and story was not sacrificed in the process. That is the main thing ME1 did right. It built a new world with a bunch of potential follow-ups and still managed to be engaging by itself. Blaming ME1 for BioWare's failures doesn't make any sense in my book, because everything was in place to make things better... ME2 did the opposite, which is be extremely engaging by itself but killed a lot of potential in the process. And I still don't get how people don't see this. They added a lot of limiting lore, even confusing lore, which ultimately ME3 could not resolve. The real issue is not ME1. Far from it. In fact, it's something completely different, and that is the fact that for every game after ME1, BioWare was focused on making new players feel welcome within the Mass Effect universe, rather than writing the best sequels they could. It could also be seen in their advertising, with them and the voice actors saying that ME2 and ME3 are both each perfect games to jump into and that playing the previous ones are not required. It is extremely hard if not impossible, to have a coherent trilogy story and at the same time not wanting to rely at all on the main plot of the prior game. Considering we're still in a down trend regarding BioWare's capabilities, I cannot count on this potential that Andromeda gave coming to fruition. The "lofty" unknowable Reapers in ME1 only disappointed as we learned more about them, stripped of their mystery... in the end they became a small boy behaving badly, which stripped Shepard of his might. Andromeda makes no such lofty promises about the antagonist... so the trend can be that the enemies get more and more powerful as we unravel who they really are. However, I sincerely get the impression though that what ME fans wanted was to again just be told "this is unknowable and mysterious" for 50-100 hours with a "voodoo" power seeking to take over your mind in the universe... so they could just hype up that "mystery" in their own minds. (and throw in a few husks (read zombies... because any game with zombies sells... and the only real problem with the Kett is they weren't zombie enough to be zombies)... because that's ALL that ME1's story really did.Really? There is zero innovation regarding the Kett or anything in Andromeda, really. I don't even know what 'not zombie enough' means. It's quite clear that exaltation is practically the same thing as the indoctrination of the trilogy, except done in a different manner and maybe for a different purpose. The Jardaan are either a new form of reapers, or the Protheans, but again, it's the same initial setup. The Scourge is the same concept as the Dark Energy plot that was ultimately dropped. The remnant vaults are basically Prothean Beacons that change the weather. It's all the same mysteries in a different package, and there are many more, including characters. The difference is that ME1 resolved a lot of the mysteries, while Andromeda didn't resolve almost any of them. Even Anthem has the same setup of some mysterious ancient race leaving stuff behind. BioWare has only one story left to tell apparently. And this is exactly why I find it quite absurd to somehow blame ME1 for how the reapers ended up. BioWare has no creativity left. They regurgitate the same thing in a different form. And even worse, you somehow think that as we learn more about the Jardaan or Scourge or whatever else, that somehow the antagonist will improve rather than go down the drain. There is no indication that will be the case... Unfortunately. So, at some point, someone will remaster ME1. The bigger question is whether it will ultimately be as satisfying to the fans as they've built it up in their own minds to be. I'm betting not. I'm betting the "fans" will be more disappointed by a redone ME1 than they were by Andromeda... and saddened that I'm probably losing out on the potential to go farther into an entirely new story with Andromeda in the process. However, c'est la vie... life goes on. That will all depend on whether they manage to capture what ME1 did right. I think you're blowing the negative aspects of ME1 way out of proportion. The biggest complaint the game received back then was that its performance (as in framerate) was not great. That obviously did not help the gameplay and was one of the reasons the Mako was hard to control. If they simply replace the Mako with a Nomad + Guns, implement ME3 or Andromeda Gameplay (or even ME2), update the graphics and leave everything else exactly the same, that game will easily be the best Mass Effect game ever released. The original Mass Effect didn't have guides out there on how to actually enjoy the game... As a bonus, leaving these here from the same Youtuber... Seems like a fair comparison. "Happy" N7 Day...
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 7, 2019 16:01:17 GMT
I can't agree. ME1 is subpar to the rest Andromeda included. Andromeda is what ME1 should have been imho. Yea hfor me MEA would be wha twe got for ME1 I think if it were made today. For me the only thing ME1 matches the other gaes with isstory the rest is pretty weak compared with the other games. I played ME1 first even though I got 1 and 2 at the sam etime but I enjoyed the overall experiemnc eof 2 far more than I did ME1. Everything just played and felt generally better. Stil does tbh. I played ME1 at launch but once ME2 came out I much prefered that over ME1. It just plays so much better.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 7, 2019 16:02:08 GMT
I can't agree. ME1 is subpar to the rest Andromeda included. Andromeda is what ME1 should have been imho. Did you watch Terminator: Dark Fate? Not yet. Plan to though.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 16:07:31 GMT
Do you know that Terminator is now on ice, because of it?
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Post by tatann on Nov 7, 2019 16:09:31 GMT
So, do some Anthem skins count as "nothing" for purposes of this thread? Anything Anthem counts as nothing ;-)
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 7, 2019 16:10:32 GMT
Do you know that Terminator is now on ice, because of it? Or six feet under, if the numbers are right.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 7, 2019 16:23:36 GMT
So, do some Anthem skins count as "nothing" for purposes of this thread? Well, adding a few skins to a game that is widely regarded as a failure and that likely most of us don't play is not exactly nothing, no. I guess it's like seeing a guy drown in rough seas and giving him an encouraging wave and a shout of "good luck". It's not nothing, but also definitely not what he was hoping for.
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Post by Ascend on Nov 7, 2019 16:24:22 GMT
Can't say I agree with this. The first Mass Effect had its problems, sure, but it had multiple things that none of the follow-up games could match. Whether you agree with that or not, the first Mass Effect despite doing a lot of things wrong, did the most important things right. It's the reason the series became a success in the first place. Andromeda is a different beast that barely did anything right, which is why the series feels dead right now. If the first Mass Effect ever was like Andromeda, most likely the second game would have never been made... Comparing Andromeda to ME1 is a disservice to the Mass Effect name.
They did two things right in Andromeda. Environmental graphics and the gameplay. One might think that those are two very important things in a game, but obviously those are not for the likes of Mass Effect. ME1 with its mediocre gameplay was vastly more successful, and with good reason. It had interesting villains, a great plot with great twists, an interesting world, interesting enough characters... All those are things that Andromeda lacks, and characters aside, the follow-up games created a mess of everything else.
People like to say that the ending of ME3 killed Mass Effect, but honestly, it was the overhyped success of ME2 that started it. The game was praised even when it didn't deserve to be. The problems became fun memes rather than real criticism. The lack of plot coherence, the increase of absurd events and explanations (like killing off the protagonist and reviving him/her for no real reason), the linearity and claustrophobic feel, the ignoring of important plot points of the previous game... Ultimately, the whole franchise suffered from it. Both Andromeda and ME3 are attempts to improve on ME2's and implement elements from ME1. But it seems they still have no idea what made ME1 so good, because, they either implement the ME1 aspects badly, or simply implement the wrong things...
ME2 improved three things mainly... The characters, the graphics and the gameplay. All the rest is inferior, so I cannot agree that the series 'grew' with the ME1 successors. The ones that played ME2 first (which is most likely the majority) ultimately feel that that is the best game of the franchise. But... For most people that played ME1 first, ME2 felt like a regression, despite the improvements.
All that being said... I actually welcome an Andromeda successor. But I do not expect it to be a great game. There have been too many subsequent failures in BioWare's recent track record. Andromeda was a chance for them to redeem themselves after the ME3 ending, they failed. Then there was Anthem, which gave high expectations, and, well, we all know how that turned out. It was basically Andromeda V2. So... At this point, I cannot trust the next game to be great, be it Dragon Age or Mass Effect. But I'm still open to it, and it can work... The elephant in the room is still there though.
As for N7 day... This is the first year where my care level is so "high", that I almost forgot it existed... So... Yeah. I'm not expecting anything really, although, almost anything is welcome, even though I'm extremely skeptical. I gave you a like. Why? As you can see, the rebuttal from folks who don't agree with what you posted about Andromeda They can share their rebuttals all they want. The fact is that ME1 set up the best trilogy in gaming and contributed to Mass Effect being a very valuable franchise. Andromeda nearly killed it. That's the bottom line.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 16:42:36 GMT
Do you know that Terminator is now on ice, because of it? Or six feet under, if the numbers are right. Terminator is now in the same condition as Mass Effect post Andromeda launch. Yes, literally "On Ice" was used, same as for Mass Effect: Andromeda. Even if you like Dark Fate, this is how bad things are for Terminator right now. If it were a success, we'd already be talking about a sequel, like we already are talking about the Joker. Now, no studio will make a Dark Fate 2. You can extrapolate what that means for Andromeda 2. If Andromeda was the real Mass Effect 1, there would have been no ME2 today.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 7, 2019 16:55:55 GMT
Or six feet under, if the numbers are right. Terminator is now in the same condition as Mass Effect post Andromeda launch. Yes, literally "On Ice" was used, same as for Mass Effect: Andromeda. Even if you like Dark Fate, this is how bad things are for Terminator right now. If it were a success, we'd already be talking about a sequel, like we already are talking about the Joker. Now, no studio will make a Dark Fate 2. You can extrapolate what that means for Andromeda 2. If Andromeda was the real Mass Effect 1, there would have been no ME2 today. Like T5:G, I personally despise T6:DF. They should have built on what T4:S set up (and set up MIR into a follow up movie). As for MEA, and ME in general, it should have been put on ice till they (BioWare) had a clear goal in mind. But, none of that matters now I guess.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 16:58:56 GMT
Terminator is now in the same condition as Mass Effect post Andromeda launch. Yes, literally "On Ice" was used, same as for Mass Effect: Andromeda. Even if you like Dark Fate, this is how bad things are for Terminator right now. If it were a success, we'd already be talking about a sequel, like we already are talking about the Joker. Now, no studio will make a Dark Fate 2. You can extrapolate what that means for Andromeda 2. If Andromeda was the real Mass Effect 1, there would have been no ME2 today. Like T5:G, I personally despise T6:DF. They should have built on what T4:S set up (and set up MIR into a follow up movie). As for MEA, and ME in general, it should have been put on ice till they (BioWare) had a clear goal in mind. But, none of that matters now I guess. Here's a goal for ME: survive. Survive as a franchise, survive as a title.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 7, 2019 17:01:19 GMT
Like T5:G, I personally despise T6:DF. They should have built on what T4:S set up (and set up MIR into a follow up movie). As for MEA, and ME in general, it should have been put on ice till they (BioWare) had a clear goal in mind. But, none of that matters now I guess. Here's a goal for ME: survive. Survive as a franchise, survive as a title. Seeing as ME is on life support, that's about all it can do now.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 17:02:11 GMT
Here's a goal for ME: survive. Survive as a franchise, survive as a title. Seeing as ME is on life support, that's about all it can do now. And that would be considered a success.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 7, 2019 17:05:46 GMT
Seeing as ME is on life support, that's about all it can do now. And that would be considered a success. I don't envy the guy who make the next ME game and then it screws it up. Then again, it would be hilarious to watch the forums and YouTube explode. 😈
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 17:08:00 GMT
And that would be considered a success. I don't envy the guy who make the next ME game and then it screws it up. Then again, it would be hilarious to watch the forums and YouTube explode. 😈 If you ask people here, they just want a rehash of Andromeda, as the next game. So they want the game that put the franchise on ice, but again. Andromeda fans must really hate the idea of Mass Effect having a future.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 7, 2019 17:14:08 GMT
I don't envy the guy who make the next ME game and then it screws it up. Then again, it would be hilarious to watch the forums and YouTube explode. 😈 If you ask people here, they just want a rehash of Andromeda, as the next game. So they want the game that put the franchise on ice, but again. Andromeda fans must really hate the idea of Mass Effect having a future. If that happens, ME would end up on ice permanently. Mainly because I don't see it surviving a second time around. After all, Vass form Farcry 3 did say something about doing the same thing over and over again....
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 7, 2019 17:15:15 GMT
If it was dead they wouldn’t be saying things like this.
Casey Hudson @caseydhudson Happy #N7 day! We’ve been thinking a lot about where we’ve been in the Mass effect universe, and where we want to go next.
Hopefully it is a sequel to Andromeda.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 7, 2019 17:21:04 GMT
I don't envy the guy who make the next ME game and then it screws it up. Then again, it would be hilarious to watch the forums and YouTube explode. 😈 If you ask people here, they just want a rehash of Andromeda, as the next game. So they want the game that put the franchise on ice, but again. Andromeda fans must really hate the idea of Mass Effect having a future. I would say the fans of Andromeda would be unhappy if the next ME game didn't continue in Andromeda especially with Ryder.
ME will have a future. It's unknown at this time what Bioware will do for the next game. I could be wrong. They may already have an idea of what they want to do. Of course the focus is on the next DA game until it's released
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 17:21:14 GMT
and where we want to go next. Back to the Milky Way?
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 7, 2019 17:32:06 GMT
and where we want to go next. Back to the Milky Way? Back to miking franchises that are already concluded dry with outa rear-pulled stories.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 17:32:31 GMT
If you ask people here, they just want a rehash of Andromeda, as the next game. So they want the game that put the franchise on ice, but again. Andromeda fans must really hate the idea of Mass Effect having a future. I would say the fans of Andromeda would be unhappy if the next ME game didn't continue in Andromeda especially with Ryder.
ME will have a future. It's unknown at this time what Bioware will do for the next game. I could be wrong. They may already have an idea of what they want to do. Of course the focus is on the next DA game until it's released
I don't think they understand what happened with Andromeda. When something is put "on ice", it means it requires a drastic rework to go forward. Look at Dark Fate and how the projections for its return place it as vastly different to the Terminator we know. ME is guaranteed to return in a very, very different form. Depending on the force exerted on the franchise by EA execs, it could return in a way that it is fundamentally unrecognizable. But a Ryder Andromeda 2 right now is very, very dead.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
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SirSourpuss
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 17:33:49 GMT
Back to miking franchises that are already concluded dry with outa rear-pulled stories. It's either that or irrevocable death for ME right now. There's no new IP coming out of Bioware, like Anthem.
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