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Post by Iakus on Nov 6, 2019 18:52:16 GMT
And then you get the same game, that doesn't even allocate more resources to get a better Priority Earth, like gothpunkboy89 wanted, because that is all the issue he has with ME3. A better Priority Earth. Hmmm. Get rid of the goodbyes. Get rid of the suicide run, I mean beam run. Have all squadmates involved in the fight. Show some of the war assets in action. In b4 Hanako, alan etc all go nope again Post whatever idea you want. Don't worry about what others say about it. Some will like the idea. Some won't, and some will just shrug their shoulders. Sovereign had Saren and the tank-bred krogan to handle that.Vigil even states that the Reapers were not invincible, and could be brought down with sufficient firepower. Yet the reaper wasn't taking any damage, even after losing it's shields, until an itsy-bitsy-tennie-weenie frigate, with a fighter on each side, destroy the reaper. Along comes ME3 showing a ship fire two shots at a reaper destroying two of it's legs. And Saren had a geth arm the whole game, not just when Sovereign "upgraded" him. I wouldn't take the graphics of ME1 entirely at face value.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 6, 2019 18:54:02 GMT
Oh, believe me, ME3 needs a total rewrite. But what I would really like would be an ME2 that actually bridged ME1 and ME3, and wasn't just a bunch of side missions. I don't know if that would demonstrably help. ME2 was, either by design or by accident, a well received game and considering what we got after it, I don't know if getting a different ME2 would have worked in ME2's favour. I mean, we'd still get cramped hallways and chest high walls, because that was the trend at the time. At least the way it was structured, narratively and cinematically, it was all so very tight knit that it worked. A difficult endeavor under different circumstances. Well, all I can say is I spent much of ME2 going "why the hell am I doing this? Space Cthulhu is out there ready to wipe out organic life, and I'm busy slaughtering people who are trained to fight and might come in handy when the war comes."
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 6, 2019 19:04:38 GMT
Show some of the war assets in action. They did. You didn't like it? Such entitlement. This alternate plan of yours sounds like some kind of conventional victory Define conventional. We don't fight the Reapers, just like Bioware said. Which this game said was impossible. No less so than with the Crucible. Also, why does there have to be a final boss? Fun? To have a final memorable fight? Or is that too videogamey?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 6, 2019 19:07:19 GMT
Well, all I can say is I spent much of ME2 going "why the hell am I doing this? Space Cthulhu is out there ready to wipe out organic life, and I'm busy slaughtering people who are trained to fight and might come in handy when the war comes." I understand that. Under other circumstances, I would agree. Considering Bioware's track record since, I would not risk it.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 6, 2019 19:33:12 GMT
I don't know if that would demonstrably help. ME2 was, either by design or by accident, a well received game and considering what we got after it, I don't know if getting a different ME2 would have worked in ME2's favour. I mean, we'd still get cramped hallways and chest high walls, because that was the trend at the time. At least the way it was structured, narratively and cinematically, it was all so very tight knit that it worked. A difficult endeavor under different circumstances. Well, all I can say is I spent much of ME2 going "why the hell am I doing this? Space Cthulhu is out there ready to wipe out organic life, and I'm busy slaughtering people who are trained to fight and might come in handy when the war comes." Well, yeah, if you don't accept the loyalty mechanic as a real in-universe thing -- and that's a hard sell since it's not a very rational mechanic-- then the LMs aren't going to work, RP-wise. Excepting Legion's since that one has real consequences. (What the hell happens in-universe if Shepard won't or can't do that mission, anyway? I suppose it's like the burning of Denerim in DAI.) Don't know how you feel about the RMs. Of course, Shepard has to do at least some LMs before proceeding on the SM, unless she accidentally bumps into N7 missions while mining. My preferred playstyle is to do as few LMs as possible; Reaper IFF is done immediately, for instance. RP aside, the SM is more entertaining that way.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 6, 2019 19:45:01 GMT
In b4 Hanako, alan etc all go nope again, because they don't like the idea that nobody dies in the end. Because nobody has to. We'll have some heroic sacrifices throughout the game, let the final battle not be a tragic event the destroys the Milky Way forever. Let Shepard fly in the galaxy forever in our minds and then jump to Andromeda. Or make a 90% Unexplored Milky Way Initiative, I don't care. Sombrero Initiative that'll fly to the Sombrero Galaxy. We'll kill La Kettcarachas™, drinking Techquilas™ and Marwaritas™, as we ally ourselves with the Mexangara™ and never go back to the Milky Way again. Hey, I checked out after seeing the massive retcons necessary to implement the goo brain. (It'd be tolerable if I liked the purpose, but since I'm pretty indifferent to it, pass.) Ordinarily I'm no fan of boss fights and the proposed one sounds ridiculous, but this seems fairly dramatically inert so maybe it needs one. Don't know about Hanako, but your confusion about what I want and what I don't want is nearly complete. I have no idea where you get those ideas from. Complete confusion on the is/ought distinction?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 20:22:51 GMT
Define conventional. We don't fight the Reapers, just like Bioware said. What is this Reaper Brain Collective? Since the Reapers are a hive mind, their brain is inside them.
Bioware never said we won't be fighting Reapers.
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Post by jamiecotc on Nov 6, 2019 20:43:09 GMT
Yes, but not necessarily as the protagonist. Something akin to KOTR2?
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Post by Phantom on Nov 6, 2019 21:01:13 GMT
What about Switching Protagonist? Similar how Jedi Exile and her assigning the Dxun Team Assault Leader during Kotor 2 or Break Out Character Infiltrator during Leviathan of Kotor 1.
Having Shepard playing Certain playable sections and a New Player Character playing as the other sections.
Well I would have New Player Character be played majority of the New ME3.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 6, 2019 23:59:53 GMT
Well, all I can say is I spent much of ME2 going "why the hell am I doing this? Space Cthulhu is out there ready to wipe out organic life, and I'm busy slaughtering people who are trained to fight and might come in handy when the war comes." Well, yeah, if you don't accept the loyalty mechanic as a real in-universe thing -- and that's a hard sell since it's not a very rational mechanic-- then the LMs aren't going to work, RP-wise. Excepting Legion's since that one has real consequences. (What the hell happens in-universe if Shepard won't or can't do that mission, anyway? I suppose it's like the burning of Denerim in DAI.) Don't know how you feel about the RMs. Of course, Shepard has to do at least some LMs before proceeding on the SM, unless she accidentally bumps into N7 missions while mining. My preferred playstyle is to do as few LMs as possible; Reaper IFF is done immediately, for instance. RP aside, the SM is more entertaining that way. The only recruitment missions that make sense are: Grunt: You're actually after Okeer, who has had dealings with the Collectors and might have some insight into them. You get Grunt as a consolation prize Mordin: He is specifically recruited for is scientific expertise Tali: Because she is actually clued-in to the Reaper threat. Garrus: Same as Tali. of course, when you're recruiting him, he's some random vigilante called "Archangel" so...yeah...makes no sense. Legion: because he's part of the main quest.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 7, 2019 1:07:29 GMT
Makes sense. However, getting Jack and Samara aren't known to be missions ahead of time. Regrettably, there's no way to just give up on recruiting Samara once the mission is begun. (Nor with Jack, but I don't think this introduces an RP issue.)
IIRC, we're stuck with recruiting Archangel early since we can't get to Horizon without doing the mission. I don't think there's any problem with skipping Samara and Thane's RMs as long as you have Kasumi and Zaeed (the Collector Ship mission has an 8-squadmate trigger condition.) RP-wise, of course, you'll run out of stuff which makes sense to do without actually having a way forward. So a certain amount of "what the hell, might as well go do one of these" is required.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 14:22:47 GMT
What is this Reaper Brain Collective? Since the Reapers are a hive mind, their brain is inside them. But that's not a Reaper. Not the way we understood them to be in ME1. Just a big pile of goo. Inside a robotic thingamajig. And it controls the Reapers. And the Reapers are just shells, remotely controlled. You see, we're not conventionally fighting the Reapers. We don't have to fire a single shot against the Reapers. No more than you'd consider fighting Marauder Shields as conventionally fighting the Reapers. Bioware never said we won't be fighting Reapers. They said we "can't" fight the Reapers. As in a single foot soldier can't engage a multiple kilometer long machine in conventional combat. Which is true. We couldn't and we didn't. Hey, I checked out after seeing the massive retcons necessary to implement the goo brain What is so massive a retcon? We never got in Sovereign in ME1 and the goo would probably be destroyed in the events of his demise. It further explains indoctrination, so it actually explains things about the Reapers and what the goo actually does/is. Expanding on lore that was not previously available is not a retcon. Otherwise, no franchise would ever expand, if the lore could only be introduced in the very first entry of. Ordinarily I'm no fan of boss fights and the proposed one sounds ridiculous, but this seems fairly dramatically inert so maybe it needs one. It's an exaggeration, you know? Do something wild and unusual. Something fitting of deep space death squids. Don't know about Hanako, but your confusion about what I want and what I don't want is nearly complete. I have no idea where you get those ideas from. Complete confusion on the is/ought distinction? You never agree with me. I thought this would just be par for the course. Having Shepard playing Certain playable sections and a New Player Character playing as the other sections. Well, that didn't go too well last time someone tried it *cough Metal Gear Solid 2 cough*. Although Red Dead Redemption made a much better case for it, way later on. If you let Shepard dead at the start of ME2 and went on with a new protagonist from there?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 16:19:02 GMT
Here's my 2 cents.
Bioware should never go back to Shepard or the original Mass Effect setting. It's done and I don't think there is any salvaging or rebooting that they could even try which would ever recapture the magic spell they briefly worked over us. I think at this point we should just live with the trilogy in all it's flawed, frustrating glory.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 7, 2019 16:47:01 GMT
It's an exaggeration, you know? Do something wild and unusual. Something fitting of deep space death squids. Well, that's the problem. Take away the garbage from your idea and... what's left? I don't see anything defined under the exaggeration, and all the exaggeration does is make the idea sound bad. What were you trying to accomplish? As for retcons, you're suddenly up that all other Reapers are different from the two we encounter first, because reasons. Three, actually, since Harbinger's presented as an individual. I don't want to sound too critical, though. I've seen far worse ideas than yours posted here.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2019 16:50:09 GMT
Well, that's the problem. Take away the garbage from your idea and... what's left? Could you point out the parts you thought were garbage? Or is it everything?
As for retcons, you're suddenly up that all other Reapers are different from the two we encounter first, because reasons. Yes, they would be. Sovereign and the Human one would be autonomous units
Three, actually, since Harbinger's presented as an individual He still remains individual.
I don't want to sound too critical, though. I've seen far worse ideas than yours posted here. Thank you for your kind words.
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Post by burningcherry on Nov 7, 2019 17:59:23 GMT
They did that with Arrival. Arrival be like: choose when they actually moved, now or after you defeated the Collectors. I checked some old FTL deceleration depictions trying to figure out if you're right, only to find them in open contradiction with the Codex... Having the Reapers park further than possible for emergency invasion on foot would be a bit unrealistic but possible and better overall it seems.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 18:39:19 GMT
They said we "can't" fight the Reapers. As in a single foot soldier can't engage a multiple kilometer long machine in conventional combat. Which is true. We couldn't and we didn't. Do you have a source for this?
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Post by Iakus on Nov 7, 2019 18:48:15 GMT
They said we "can't" fight the Reapers. As in a single foot soldier can't engage a multiple kilometer long machine in conventional combat. Which is true. We couldn't and we didn't. Do you have a source for this? Ashley Williams, in ME1.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 20:41:37 GMT
Link to video?
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Post by Iakus on Nov 7, 2019 23:45:05 GMT
"I don't plan to lie down and die, Skipper. Don't worry about that. But I'm infantry. Against Reapers, my rifle may as well fire spitballs. I won't have a place in this war."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 3:47:23 GMT
Well yeah, bullets and missile launchers don't do much against Reapers. Soldiers vs Destroyer in LondonThat's a lot of spitballs.
In the end, you have to use the Crucible, plus the Citadel and the mass relays to defeat the Reapers.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2019 4:26:25 GMT
Well yeah, bullets and missile launchers don't do much against Reapers. Soldiers vs Destroyer in LondonThat's a lot of spitballs.
In the end, you have to use the Crucible, plus the Citadel and the mass relays to defeat the Reapers.
They are using mass effect technology against the masters of mass effect technology. Humans, asari, krogan, they advanced along the paths the Reapers set for them, using Reaper technology. There was no reason to create a magic wand in space. The answer should have been "find another path"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 4:57:48 GMT
It was foreshadowed in ME2 by the Illusive Man that our best chance against the Reapers is to use their own technology against them.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Nov 8, 2019 11:46:45 GMT
It was foreshadowed in ME2 by the Illusive Man that our best chance against the Reapers is to use their own technology against them. TIM talked about the Reapers? All I heard was "humanity #1!!!!!!!1" There is no reason for Shepard to trust TIM (at all, as far as I'm concerned), given how "well" Cerberus' science usually goes and more importantly, what Shepard has experienced with Saren on the particular brand of Reaper Tech (tm) that TIM turns out to be so fond of. Also, doesn't indoctrinated individuals likely insist how great reaper stuff is?
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Post by themikefest on Nov 8, 2019 12:41:00 GMT
Win conventionally? What if Shepard refuses the thing's offering's, then decides to get rid of the thing is to drive the Citadel into the sun? Shepard gets in the driver seat, puts on his/her Ray Ban's, cranks the radio all the way up while listening to AC/DC's Highway To Hell. excellent As Shepard puts it in gear, informs the Normandy to follow. After the Citadel is destroyed, the reapers stop the harvest.
Or what if the Leviathan dlc is part of the main story that is played right after talking with the council? When talking with Leviathan, it says destroying Harbinger is the key to stopping the reapers. ME3 plays out like it does. Shepard, along with all squadmates from the trilogy, will board Harbinger to destroy it from within.
Or instead of that, Leviathan says by destroying the Citadel, that houses the intelligence, the reapers will stop the harvest. During the game, the Citadel is evacuated. Shepard gets in the driver seat and flies the station into the sun.
Conventional victory will not happen because of the numbers the reapers have. ME3 should have been 15 minutes long. The destroyer destroys the SR2 instead of the two shuttles. So 5 minutes for the game with 10 minutes for the credits. The only reason why the galaxy had an opportunity to destroy the reapers is because Bioware had to make them stupid.
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