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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 25, 2019 0:13:16 GMT
Harbinger wants Shepard alive to turn him into a Reaper agent. It wouldn't just kill him with its laser. It even waited patiently while you said goodbye to your squadmembers during the Normandy evac scene. The whole scene with the group running to the beam shows that Harbinger isn't specifically targeting single individuals. In fact, he is missing most of his shots if he is targeting specific individuals. He appears to be more successfully targeting the vehicles. Yeah I think he's using the vehicles to try and scatter everyone to try to stop them from getting to the beam.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 25, 2019 3:56:25 GMT
Well As much as it could be an interesting twist if they do another Shepard game that Harbinger did actually indoctrinated Shepard. Yes there will be salt by the fans because of Player agency. Bioware will never tell the player they are indoctrinated. Just like Sovereign never told Saren that it was indoctrinating him. He had no clue, and despite Shepard telling him directly that he was, Saren still didn't believe it. Same with TIM. Despite all the symptoms and evidence put in the game by Bioware and teased in their trailers, most of the indoctrinated literalists didn't believe they were being indoctrinated either.
Also, fans should realize by now that this game trilogy has been on rails from the start. There was no such thing as player agency. Mass Effect is like a choose your own adventure book. You can make choices and flip to page 30 to find out the outcome of the choice. However, you cannot ask the writer of the book to write new choices and such because you want to have done something differently. That's not how it works. They are predefined choices and predefined outcomes determined by whoever wrote the book.
The wonderful thing about this theory is that it's evidence-proof. Any inconvenient fact become simply more indoctrination.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 5:52:08 GMT
Yeah I think he's using th evehicles to rt ya nd scatte reveryone t orty to stop them from getting to the beam. Off-topic, but are you typing this on a phone? Your words are all jumbled.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 27, 2019 14:24:36 GMT
Harbinger's blast was not a direct hit on Shepard. It clearly hit in front of him and then moves towards him, but the screen goes white before it actually reaches him... so it's only your assumption that he was hit directly. Shepard was injured and knocked out by the AOE damage. The blast that knocked him out was merely closer than the ones that he dodged prior to that point. Assumption? I never said it was a direct shot. You're the one assuming I believe that for some reason.
Anyways. Ah yes, the beam rum, or as I like to call it at times, the suicide run. Before I get into to that, remember what Anderson at the forward operating base said? This is a one way trip for many. of us. There can be no retreat, no falling back. We move forward at all costs.
Back to the run. In my copy of ME3, before Shepard starting running to suicide, she/he noticed a ACE Hardware store nearby. Inside found 3 cans of Harbinger red beam of doom repellent. After spraying the squad and her/himself, they ran towards suicide. In all my playthroughs, Shepard was hit at least once by Harbinger without taking any damage. That repellent is holding up. Then along comes the shot from Harbinger followed by the white light. Before Shepard gets up, the camera zooms on the can of repellent Shepard used. It's only good for a short time. Had she/he got the Ultimate can of repellent, Shepard would have been fine. Maybe next time.
Before the cut, the squadmates tapped their feet 3 times saying, I want to be on the Normandy, I want to be on the Normandy, I want to be on the Normandy. Poof. It worked. They're seen coming out of the SR2 on the unknown planet. With the cut, the player is introduced to the joke called the what-the-crap evac scene.
As Shepard gets up, the player sees Harbinger flying away while hearing voices over the comms saying retreat, fallback, no one made it. Why? Apparently everyone forgtot what Anderson said at the fob. And apparently everyone suffered from temporary blindness not noticing the reaper has flown away. Why didn't Anderson get on the comms to tell everyone to get to the beam since the reaper flew away? Wouldn't that be a good time to make another run to the beam? No. Because the game only wanted Anderson and Shepard on the Citadel for the touchy-feely scene. For me, that is one of the reasons why the beam run is crap. It was setup to have the touchy-feely scene with Anderson and Shepard.
A couple things. The next time you play ME3, instead of having Shepard run to the beam, have him/her walk to the beam. When I did that, I stopped counting the number of times Harbinger shot Shepard. And the other is have Shepard walk backwards to the beam. No one is seen running by Shepard to the beam
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 27, 2019 18:42:06 GMT
Can you post a screenshot of Shepard actually getting hit by the beam? I can't seem to make it happen.
And yeah, designing around the touchy-feely stuff is the worst thing about Bio's house style.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 27, 2019 20:06:38 GMT
Can you post a screenshot of Shepard actually getting hit by the beam? I can't seem to make it happen. And yeah, designing around the touchy-feely stuff is the worst thing about Bio's house style. I like to think that Shepard, in that brief instance, stared down Harbinger in its many eyes and did Blue Steel, and Harbinger, blinded temporarily by Shep's resplendence, scrambled its targeting and only grazed them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 23:21:52 GMT
Harbinger's blast was not a direct hit on Shepard. It clearly hit in front of him and then moves towards him, but the screen goes white before it actually reaches him... so it's only your assumption that he was hit directly. Shepard was injured and knocked out by the AOE damage. The blast that knocked him out was merely closer than the ones that he dodged prior to that point. Assumption? I never said it was a direct shot. You're the one assuming I believe that for some reason.
Anyways. Ah yes, the beam rum, or as I like to call it at times, the suicide run. Before I get into to that, remember what Anderson at the forward operating base said? This is a one way trip for many. of us. There can be no retreat, no falling back. We move forward at all costs.
Back to the run. In my copy of ME3, before Shepard starting running to suicide, she/he noticed a ACE Hardware store nearby. Inside found 3 cans of Harbinger red beam of doom repellent. After spraying the squad and her/himself, they ran towards suicide. In all my playthroughs, Shepard was hit at least once by Harbinger without taking any damage. That repellent is holding up. Then along comes the shot from Harbinger followed by the white light. Before Shepard gets up, the camera zooms on the can of repellent Shepard used. It's only good for a short time. Had she/he got the Ultimate can of repellent, Shepard would have been fine. Maybe next time.
Before the cut, the squadmates tapped their feet 3 times saying, I want to be on the Normandy, I want to be on the Normandy, I want to be on the Normandy. Poof. It worked. They're seen coming out of the SR2 on the unknown planet. With the cut, the player is introduced to the joke called the what-the-crap evac scene.
As Shepard gets up, the player sees Harbinger flying away while hearing voices over the comms saying retreat, fallback, no one made it. Why? Apparently everyone forgtot what Anderson said at the fob. And apparently everyone suffered from temporary blindness not noticing the reaper has flown away. Why didn't Anderson get on the comms to tell everyone to get to the beam since the reaper flew away? Wouldn't that be a good time to make another run to the beam? No. Because the game only wanted Anderson and Shepard on the Citadel for the touchy-feely scene. For me, that is one of the reasons why the beam run is crap. It was setup to have the touchy-feely scene with Anderson and Shepard.
A couple things. The next time you play ME3, instead of having Shepard run to the beam, have him/her walk to the beam. When I did that, I stopped counting the number of times Harbinger shot Shepard. And the other is have Shepard walk backwards to the beam. No one is seen running by Shepard to the beam
So, bottom line is Sheperd, Anderson, & someone who looks llike Coats survived (at least for a little bit) Harbinger's laser. I honestly don't see a problem with anything I've said about it. Coats talks on the comes after Harbinger's shot and may well be the person seen crawling towards Shepard a moment later. Yes, with low EMS in the old cut, the squad mates die... but Shepard, Anderson and someone who looks like Coats are all seen alive after that last beam shot.
What do mean "no one is seen running by Shepard to the beam." Anderson clearly jumps down and starts the run with Shepard and there are numerous people running and numerous vehicles driving towards the beam in both cuts. In the EC, Harbinger shoots and flips several of those vehicles... one of which hits the squad mates. It's only when the game focuses on the last shot from Harbinger that we don't see anyone... but it is a tighter camera angle than the previous ones... and there is clearly one person crawling towards Shepard after he gets up... just before shooting at the husks. That person collapses face down... but do we really know even then that he is dead.
Pre EC, we can clearly see from capri233's video here at 4:00 to 4:10 that there are 3 people in front of Shepard when Harbinger shoots the shot that knocks Shepard out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 23:34:19 GMT
Looks like Coats. Pre-EC.
Post-EC:
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Post by themikefest on Nov 27, 2019 23:41:54 GMT
Bottom line is I was commenting on you making an assumption about me saying that I said direct shot when I did not. The rest of it had nothing to do with your post. Since you mentioned Anderson surviving the shot from Harbinger, where was he when Harbinger fired at Shepard? I had my Shepard turn around to look back just before going up the beam and didn't see anyone. I did say have Shepard walking backwards, did I not? When I gained control of Shepard, after Harbinger arrives, I turned him/her around to walk backwards towards the beam. I saw no one run by Shepard.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 1:45:01 GMT
Bottom line is I was commenting on you making an assumption about me saying that I said direct shot when I did not. The rest of it had nothing to do with your post. Since you mentioned Anderson surviving the shot from Harbinger, where was he when Harbinger fired at Shepard? I had my Shepard turn around to look back just before going up the beam and didn't see anyone. I did say have Shepard walking backwards, did I not? When I gained control of Shepard, after Harbinger arrives, I turned him/her around to walk backwards towards the beam. I saw no one run by Shepard. Well, then you should have said "No one is seen behind Shepard running to the beam" because there are clearly other people who were running to the beam ahead of Shepard and beside Shepard and who passed behind Shepard as he's putting his squad mates onto Normandy... which logically delays him and could conceivably put him in last place in the "race" to the beam. It is probably that Bioware wanted to save on resources, so people only spawn as they pass Shepard on his/her left or right... but whatev... shrug.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 29, 2019 1:49:25 GMT
The only takeaway I have from not seeing anybody when walking backwards is that the game spawns in the other soldiers next to Shepard, so they don't ever enter your FOV if you're looking the wrong way.
I have no idea what purpose talking about this could serve.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 29, 2019 5:05:57 GMT
Anderson survived being shot by Harbinger? Yet there is no damage seen on him or his armor when seeing him by the console? Coates collapes after surviving? Yet the player can hear his voice clearly saying negative, our entire force has been decimated. Well, if it isn't Coats, it's another soldier who looked very much like him that was seen crawling towards Shepard after Shepard comes to. That soldier seemingly died a little later but did survive the laser blast itself; that is, he was not vaporized by the blast. Coats' dialogue ends before that soldier is seen collapsing face down.
Anderson started the run towards the beam with Shepard, so he survived at least one of those laser blasts, if not the precise one that hit Shepard.
Harbinger's blast was not a direct hit on Shepard. It clearly hit in front of him and then moves towards him, but the screen goes white before it actually reaches him... so it's only your assumption that he was hit directly. Shepard was injured and knocked out by the AOE damage. The blast that knocked him out was merely closer than the ones that he dodged prior to that point.
It is possible that Reapers can control the intensity of their laser blasts. They may use a different sort of blast when firing on a ship as opposed to when firing on a group of running humans. The vehicle that is hit by the blast is flipped, but not melted either.
Exactly. The AOE damage got Shep but not the full force of the blast.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 29, 2019 12:05:54 GMT
Looks like Coats. Pre-EC.
Post-EC:
During Hackett's epilogue
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 12:19:56 GMT
Looks like Coats. Pre-EC.
Post-EC:
During Hackett's epilogue That's why I've been saying that the man crawling towards Shepard was either 1) Coats and he just collapsed and did not die or 2) Wasn't Coats, but an individual who looks like Coats. I favor the scenario that it was Coats and Coats survives the blast. He believed Shepard was dead and that's the reason he reported tht the entire team had been decimated over the comms and called for any people remaining to fall back.
I'm still not sure why you seem to object to my origianl assertion that other mere humans survived the blast and it wasn't just a superhuman Shepard who did so.
Picture 1 is not the same as the scene I get even with the EC. Looks at capri's video I posted earlier. In your screen shot, where is the individual who was crawling towards Shepard and collapses face down?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 18:22:13 GMT
Picture 1 is not the same as the scene I get even with the EC. Looks at capri's video I posted earlier. In your screen shot, where is the individual who was crawling towards Shepard and collapses face down? First one is from the original ending. Second one is from the Extended Cut. If you want to verify this using the original ending, delete the DLC_CON_END folder and restart the game. The guy who collapses face down definitely isn't Coats. Coats is the only soldier in London that isn't part of Shepard's crew who doesn't wear a helmet.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 18:53:35 GMT
Picture 1 is not the same as the scene I get even with the EC. Looks at capri's video I posted earlier. In your screen shot, where is the individual who was crawling towards Shepard and collapses face down? First one is from the original ending. Second one is from the Extended Cut. If you want to verify this using the original ending, delete the DLC_CON_END folder and restart the game. The guy who collapses face down definitely isn't Coats. Coats is the only soldier in London that isn't part of Shepard's crew who doesn't wear a helmet. The guy who collapses face down is not wearing a helmet, so I'm not sure how that proves he's not Coats. The guy who collapses face down also has 2 yellow bars on his shoulders, which is clearly seen on Coats' armor when he's in the transport with Shepard (i.e. a designation of his rank). (I don't have an image host, so I can't post clips, but reference capri233's videos of the beam run on Youtube and you'll see what I mean:
at 2:20 and at 4:54
The above video by capri233 is pre-EC. He also did a post-EC video of the run:
and it shows the same helmetless man who looks like Coats with 2 yellow bars on each shoulder crawling towards Shepard and collapsing face down (at 3:59). I play on the Xbox using discs that were bought new when the game first released. The scene I see is the same as capri233 shows here. Perhaps the scene is different on PC and/or on the PS3/4.
To me, he looks no less like Coats than either of the two pictures shown above. There are 5 people in Shepard's transport and Anderson clearly says they need to get a handful of men to the beam... at which point, one of the squad mates will "say, only a handful, huh." This means everyone in that truck is heading toward the beam... Anderson and Coats included. Anderson survives the beam run as does Shepard... AND some other soldier survives long enough to be crawling towards Shepard AFTER Coast says the entire unit was decimated. My point always was and still is that Shepard is not the only individual who was not insta-killed by that laser blast from Harbinger. That the same soldier who looks like Coats and has the same rank as Coats is shown in the post-EC slides must also imply that he survived the run.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 20:27:06 GMT
The guy who collapses face down is not wearing a helmet, so I'm not sure how that proves he's not Coats. The guy who collapses face down also has 2 yellow bars on his shoulders, which is clearly seen on Coats' armor when he's in the transport with Shepard (i.e. a designation of his rank). (I don't have an image host, so I can't post clips, but reference capri233's videos of the beam run on Youtube and you'll see what I mean: It's not Coats, because the guy has a beard. Coats is clean shaven.
To me, he looks no less like Coats than either of the two pictures shown above. There are 5 people in Shepard's transport and Anderson clearly says they need to get a handful of men to the beam... at which point, one of the squad mates will "say, only a handful, huh." This means everyone in that truck is heading toward the beam... Anderson and Coats included. Anderson survives the beam run as does Shepard... AND some other soldier survives long enough to be crawling towards Shepard AFTER Coast says the entire unit was decimated. My point always was and still is that Shepard is not the only individual who was not insta-killed by that laser blast from Harbinger. That the same soldier who looks like Coats and has the same rank as Coats is shown in the post-EC slides must also imply that he survived the run.I never saw Anderson or Coats run to the beam behind me. I'm sticking with Coats is dead, because they moved his dead body from the beam to the Citadel after the EC.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 20:38:14 GMT
The guy who collapses face down is not wearing a helmet, so I'm not sure how that proves he's not Coats. The guy who collapses face down also has 2 yellow bars on his shoulders, which is clearly seen on Coats' armor when he's in the transport with Shepard (i.e. a designation of his rank). (I don't have an image host, so I can't post clips, but reference capri233's videos of the beam run on Youtube and you'll see what I mean: It's not Coats, because the guy has a beard. Coats is clean shaven.
To me, he looks no less like Coats than either of the two pictures shown above. There are 5 people in Shepard's transport and Anderson clearly says they need to get a handful of men to the beam... at which point, one of the squad mates will "say, only a handful, huh." This means everyone in that truck is heading toward the beam... Anderson and Coats included. Anderson survives the beam run as does Shepard... AND some other soldier survives long enough to be crawling towards Shepard AFTER Coast says the entire unit was decimated. My point always was and still is that Shepard is not the only individual who was not insta-killed by that laser blast from Harbinger. That the same soldier who looks like Coats and has the same rank as Coats is shown in the post-EC slides must also imply that he survived the run.I never saw Anderson or Coats run to the beam behind me. I'm sticking with Coats is dead, because they moved his dead body from the beam to the Citadel after the EC.
I say the shadow in the guys face is not a beard, but mud and/or burns and bruising like we see on Shepard's face. This person is alive and able to speak over the comms, which Coats did just as Shepard is coming to. Since he's speaking over the comms just as Shepard comes to, he says the whole unit was decimated because he's seen Shepard lying there out cold and believes him/her to be dead as well. As Shepard stands up that prompts him to try to talk to Shepard so he crawls towards him.
The body on the Citadel post-EC is not Coats, but is the someone who looks like Coats. In that photo, everyone lying in that pile has Captain's bars, which seems a bit unlikely - probably just sloppy re-use of assets (which they did throughout the battle). I would expect them to be soldiers collected from earlier battles rather than ones who fell literally moments before on the beam run.
The guy shown alive in the EC slides is Coats... who was picked up alive by paramedics at the base of the beam and brought back to health.
Alternatively, the soldier crawling to Shepard is the one we see with a beard in Hackett's post-EC slide... in which case he survived Harbinger's blast rather than Coats. I prefer my interpretation in that it explains away the conflicts. In your Coats is dead scenario... how do you explain the individual shown in the slides that run while Hackett is talking? How do you explain anyone in that transport not running to the beam since the intent was to have everyone running to the beam and hope that "a handful" made it alive?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2019 21:16:40 GMT
Two words: reused assets. The ending had a bunch of that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 22:35:44 GMT
Two words: reused assets. The ending had a bunch of that. Every level has reused assets.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 2, 2019 22:57:11 GMT
I say the shadow in the guys face is not a beard, but mud and/or burns and bruising like we see on Shepard's face. This person is alive and able to speak over the comms, which Coats did just as Shepard is coming to. Since he's speaking over the comms just as Shepard comes to, he says the whole unit was decimated because he's seen Shepard lying there out cold and believes him/her to be dead as well. Coats also says we need to regroup. Fallback to the buildings. Listen to his voice. As seriously injured as the character is, wouldn't his voice sound like he was in pain, hard of breathing, pausing between words to fight off from blacking out? His voice is clear like nothing happened.
Here is Coats on the Citadel dead. How did his body get there if he passed out in front of Shepard in front of the beam? I'll tell you. It's called the teleporting Major Coats reused asset.
You can believe that, but I disagree. I will borrow your theory to say Shepard survives regardless of ems, except below 1750. See the female at the far right in the image I posted? She looks like one of my Shepard's. So there you have it. Shepard survives. ****3100 ems. **** the memorial scene. **** the breath scene. I know that's not true, but you see where I'm going with that, right?
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 2, 2019 23:18:44 GMT
Is Coates even a unique model? I'm pretty sure there's like dozens of NPC's that look just like him.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 2, 2019 23:20:00 GMT
Two words: reused assets. The ending had a bunch of that. Heck I'm pretty sure every kid on Grissom is an NPC walking around the Citadel too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 23:52:36 GMT
I say the shadow in the guys face is not a beard, but mud and/or burns and bruising like we see on Shepard's face. This person is alive and able to speak over the comms, which Coats did just as Shepard is coming to. Since he's speaking over the comms just as Shepard comes to, he says the whole unit was decimated because he's seen Shepard lying there out cold and believes him/her to be dead as well. Coats also says we need to regroup. Fallback to the buildings. Listen to his voice. As seriously injured as the character is, wouldn't his voice sound like he was in pain, hard of breathing, pausing between words to fight off from blacking out? His voice is clear like nothing happened.
Here is Coats on the Citadel dead. How did his body get there if he passed out in front of Shepard in front of the beam? I'll tell you. It's called the teleporting Major Coats reused asset.
You can believe that, but I disagree. I will borrow your theory to say Shepard survives regardless of ems, except below 1750. See the female at the far right in the image I posted? She looks like one of my Shepard's. So there you have it. Shepard survives. ****3100 ems. **** the memorial scene. **** the breath scene. I know that's not true, but you see where I'm going with that, right? Again.. EVERYONE in that transport, including Coats, makes the run towards the beam. That's their stated intention. Neither Anderson nor Coats say they are creating a fallback position at the buildings prior to leaving the leaving the transport. Anderson say's "We gotta move." while holding his gun at the ready. There is absolutely nothing that indicates that anyone in that transport did not then jump down and beging a straight run towards the beam. IF Coats was going to sit on his ass in the safety of the buildings to operate the comms, he would not have been on the transport that left the last row of buildings way int he background.
Whether you believe the man crawling toward Shepard is Coats or not, Coats is CLEARLY alive AFTER Harbinger's last laser shot. His voice is heard over comms. He's there seeing his entire unit get decimated. If he was back at the buildings and unharmed in any way, how would he know the entire unit had been decimated. The man crawling towards Shepard has reason to believe that no one but him who was on the run to the beam is still alive because Shepard is lying in the mud at that point out cold. The fallback to the buildings are for others who were expected to follow the initial rush to the beam. He's telling them not to come because his unit was unsuccessful in securing the beam.
As for his voice... shoddy VA work. Yes, assets are reused... but you want to use that fact to create an impossible scenario just to say it's impossible. My scenario explains the situation. It makes the most sense. ""When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." —Sherlock Holmes
Regardless, someone other than Shepard is alive after Harbinger's laser shot... Anderson and one other solder are seen alive. Shepard is not some superhuman immune to Harbinger's fire. It was not a direct hit.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 3, 2019 0:18:42 GMT
Again.. EVERYONE in that transport, including Coats, makes the run towards the beam. Really? In your video you posted, they aren't seen running to the beam. So why did the character, you believing is Coats, say fallback to the buildings? Anderson did say at the fob no retreat, no stepping back. We move forward at all costs. Yet they aren't seen jumping down and running to the beam. Yes Anderson makes it on the Citadel, but that's after he says he followed Shepard. What's funny about that is he nor anyone else is seen when I had Shepard look behind her/him just before going up the beam. If you're going with that, who was the one that sent the message to Hackett letting him know someone made it up the bean after the so-called character you believe to be Coats said that the entire force was decimated and acknowledged no one made to the beam? Is that so? Even though Anderson clearly said no retreat, no stepping back at the fob? And apparently everyone suffered from temporary blindness not to notice the reaper flying way. Why would you retreat when the path to the beam is now clear with the reaper gone? Oh that's right, I forgot, it's for the touchy-feely scene between Anderson and Shepard. If that's what you believe, go ahead. Doesn't mean I have to. I disagree with you.
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