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Post by Gwydden on Aug 30, 2019 15:36:12 GMT
It also only ever rewarded the player with one to 15XP for said quests. Which made levelling to complete the base game and DLC almost impossible since they're level based. I REALLY HOPE, Bioware NEVER follow the Witcher in this case! Odd. I had the opposite problem, since I was already overleveled by the time I did the first major quest after the prologue. The game posed absolutely no challenge after that — except that one time I had to fight a regular soldier in a tiny room, because I hadn't even bothered to figure out how to parry or do short dodges until then. Leveling in TW3 is a mess, which is only confounded by terrible itemization (you find lots of stuff, 95% of which is junk) and an economy so unbalanced money is basically worthless. Still had more fun with it than with DA:I, though.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 30, 2019 17:55:01 GMT
When was the last time a game had a good economy?
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Post by Gwydden on Aug 30, 2019 18:43:03 GMT
When was the last time a game had a good economy? There are degrees of awfulness. And at any rate, I thought Shadowrun: Dragonfall did a pretty good job of it. I felt constantly strapped for cash in that game.
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Post by melbella on Aug 31, 2019 0:40:03 GMT
I thought Shadowrun: Dragonfall did a pretty good job of it. I felt constantly strapped for cash in that game. How is always strapped for cash a good economy, or in any way better than having too much money and nothing to buy?
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Post by Gwydden on Aug 31, 2019 0:56:29 GMT
How is always strapped for cash a good economy, or in any way better than having too much money and nothing to buy? Because I am (role)playing a street mercenary forced to do unsavory jobs to survive. Think of it like this: I need money to complete the main quest, and to buy gear, and to buy spells, and augments, and medkits, and so on. The only way to earn substantial amounts is to do my in-game job. Hence, a lot of interesting narrative and mechanical choices emerge. Passing on morally questionable assignments also means passing on money. Having a decker in your party enables you to hack terminals and sell information, but deckers are kind of weak in meatspace and take a spot that could have gone to someone more combat capable. And if I'm eyeing a couple of cool spells, a new gun, and an extra medkit, I'll have to decide what I want most because I certainly can't afford them all. TW3 kept telling me how poor Geralt was and how hard the monster hunting life was for him. In practice, I was swimming in cash, could buy absolutely anything I wanted, and passing on quest rewards felt meaningless because I didn't need them anyway.
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Post by midnightwolf on Aug 31, 2019 1:07:16 GMT
It also only ever rewarded the player with one to 15XP for said quests. Which made levelling to complete the base game and DLC almost impossible since they're level based. I REALLY HOPE, Bioware NEVER follow the Witcher in this case! Odd. I had the opposite problem, since I was already overleveled by the time I did the first major quest after the prologue. The game posed absolutely no challenge after that — except that one time I had to fight a regular soldier in a tiny room, because I hadn't even bothered to figure out how to parry or do short dodges until then. Leveling in TW3 is a mess, which is only confounded by terrible itemization (you find lots of stuff, 95% of which is junk) and an economy so unbalanced money is basically worthless. Still had more fun with it than with DA:I, though. We can certainly agree on that,
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Post by melbella on Aug 31, 2019 1:19:24 GMT
Because I am (role)playing a street mercenary forced to do unsavory jobs to survive. Think of it like this: I need money to complete the main quest, and to buy gear, and to buy spells, and augments, and medkits, and so on. The only way to earn substantial amounts is to do my in-game job. I'm not talking about RPing. I'm talking about games where you do absolutely everything possible and STILL can't buy anything because even the most basic items are overpriced (by the devs, not the in-game merchants). The reward rate doesn't match the pay-out rate. This is not a good economy and does nothing to improve roleplaying. Yes, having to decide just what you can afford and what you can get by without is a good part of gaming. Not being able to buy anything is not.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Aug 31, 2019 1:35:06 GMT
When was the last time a game had a good economy? Ha. An RPG? Likely never.
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 31, 2019 4:29:54 GMT
When was the last time a game had a good economy? Ha. An RPG? Likely never. A good economy in an rpg would be brutal. Will never happen sadly.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 5, 2019 3:57:32 GMT
On what grounds are these games supposed to be competing? From what I have seen, none them are even remotely similar to what BioWare makes. 'Quality' is useless as a metric for comparison anyway. Quality of what?
I don't care if DA4 is a 'quality' game. I care about whether or not I enjoy it.
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 5, 2019 12:13:27 GMT
Well said. DA2 is considered by many to be a bad game, and even apart from the things that come down mostly to expectations and personal preference there's some wonky writing here and there, it lacks polish and reuses assets constantly. And yet I adore that game. If DA4 can give me an experience akin to what I got from DA2 I'm very down with that. Diamonds in the rough are very worthwhile and I can enjoy them despite their flaws.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 5, 2019 14:57:21 GMT
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 7, 2019 2:56:17 GMT
I will let you know when I play them. That really is kind of the end point here. We can speculate a lot on how two console exclusive titles and a game that has spent nearly 8 years in development can do when we play them in comparison to whenever Dragon Age 4 comes out. Until then, the only validity I see in asking this question is when you consider the games mentioned are very "non-traditional" RPGs, in the sense of them being in the mold of open-world, action-oriented games over the more classic Baldur's Gate style games that many a grognard pine for. It is likely BioWare will continue in the open-world action formula in some way, so it will boil down to how mechanics and narrative work. Interesting: Given it was Skyrim that popularized the open world RPG, and it's almost a decade old at this point, and the genre has been around even longer (Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Oblivion, Morrowind) Has open-world become the new "traditional" formula? Actually the first game to make open world RPGs popular was probably oblivion (I would say morrowind but I think it may be a narrow market since the combat was just so bad). Skyrim just super charged the open world RPG market. Personally I am not a huge fan of the idea because it messes with the story lines and takes effort away from many of them. I realize this isn't gonna be a popular opinion but this is one of the reasons I liked TW2 better then TW3.
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Post by Marduk on Sept 7, 2019 5:48:21 GMT
No evidence suggests that current Bioware is up to the task but does it matter?
If DA4 is bad, its bunch of "i told you so, just die Bioware" spams.
If DA4 is good, It was "luck" or "paid reviews" like DAI which competed with the likes of Bayonetta, Forza and Original Sin, all current top contenders of their genres.
PS Ghost of Tsushima is not an RPG if i recall.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 7, 2019 6:13:48 GMT
No evidence suggests that current Bioware is up to the task but does it matter? If DA4 is bad, its bunch of "i told you so, just die Bioware" spams. If DA4 is good, It was "luck" or "paid reviews" like DAI which competed with the likes of Bayonetta, Forza and Original Sin, all current top contenders of their genres. PS Ghost of Tsushima is not an RPG if i recall. Well neither are Bayonetta or Forza, lol.
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 8, 2019 15:39:56 GMT
Well, considering the last DA has not been equaled by any other dev, I see no reason why DA4 can’t be better than any of the upcoming releases in the next two years. Not like it’s going up against the greatest of the great. DA has not been equaled by any other dev? I guess you haven't heard of games like Witcher 3, Horizon, BoTW, Persona 5 and those or just games that already came out. By the time DA4 comes out Cyberpunk 2077 would have came out, The Outer Worlds and possibly it's next gen sequal. And I'm not just talking about quality in RPG games, I mean overall game quality. So look at Last of Us 2, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima, RDR2 and so on. Can DA4 have quality on par with those games? Not just RPGs.
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 8, 2019 15:44:10 GMT
The other thing is we really don't know how BioWare games really did, people can make assumptions on how well they did or didn't do. EA doesn't really release the numbers aside from "facts that make us look good". If how someone perceives how a game did doesn't mean that is the reality of the situation, even my guesses are just that. Except we do know. MEA was such a failure that for the first time since ME1 in 2007, Bioware decided not to release any SP DLC.
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 8, 2019 16:44:28 GMT
No evidence suggests that current Bioware is up to the task but does it matter? If DA4 is bad, its bunch of "i told you so, just die Bioware" spams. If DA4 is good, It was "luck" or "paid reviews" like DAI which competed with the likes of Bayonetta, Forza and Original Sin, all current top contenders of their genres. PS Ghost of Tsushima is not an RPG if i recall. Mind you as soon as Witcher 3 came out months later, people in retrospect saw DAI as an inferior game. People and critics today place TW3 up there with some of the greatest RPGs and greatest games ever made. Most people and critics do not do so with DAI. I mean go find a recent "top 100 games of all time" or "Top 10 RPGs of the decade" and you'll always see TW3 on there and never DAI. Also again, this isnt just about RPGs but the overall quality and level of production that many AAA games today are getting.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 8, 2019 17:06:07 GMT
The other thing is we really don't know how BioWare games really did, people can make assumptions on how well they did or didn't do. EA doesn't really release the numbers aside from "facts that make us look good". If how someone perceives how a game did doesn't mean that is the reality of the situation, even my guesses are just that. Except we do know. MEA was such a failure that for the first time since ME1 in 2007, Bioware decided not to release any SP DLC. That is your assumption on why there wasn't single player DLC, nobody confirmed that expect for people making the same assumption online. It could have been that EA had enough of the management at Montreal and decided to close the studio long before the game was even released.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 8, 2019 17:44:59 GMT
No evidence suggests that current Bioware is up to the task but does it matter? If DA4 is bad, its bunch of "i told you so, just die Bioware" spams. If DA4 is good, It was "luck" or "paid reviews" like DAI which competed with the likes of Bayonetta, Forza and Original Sin, all current top contenders of their genres. PS Ghost of Tsushima is not an RPG if i recall. Mind you as soon as Witcher 3 came out months later, people in retrospect saw DAI as an inferior game. People and critics today place TW3 up there with some of the greatest RPGs and greatest games ever made. Most people and critics do not do so with DAI. I mean go find a recent "top 100 games of all time" or "Top 10 RPGs of the decade" and you'll always see TW3 on there and never DAI. Also again, this isnt just about RPGs but the overall quality and level of production that many AAA games today are getting. Where are these "most people" you're getting from? Did you poll every gamer in the planet?
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 8, 2019 17:48:41 GMT
Except we do know. MEA was such a failure that for the first time since ME1 in 2007, Bioware decided not to release any SP DLC. That is your assumption on why there wasn't single player DLC, nobody confirmed that expect for people making the same assumption online. It could have been that EA had enough of the management at Montreal and decided to close the studio long before the game was even released. ...That's rather optimistic and not at all really how people have observed EA operating in the past.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 8, 2019 17:56:04 GMT
Mind you as soon as Witcher 3 came out months later, people in retrospect saw DAI as an inferior game. People and critics today place TW3 up there with some of the greatest RPGs and greatest games ever made. Most people and critics do not do so with DAI. I mean go find a recent "top 100 games of all time" or "Top 10 RPGs of the decade" and you'll always see TW3 on there and never DAI. Also again, this isnt just about RPGs but the overall quality and level of production that many AAA games today are getting. Did you poll every gamer in the planet? You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 8, 2019 21:59:04 GMT
That is your assumption on why there wasn't single player DLC, nobody confirmed that expect for people making the same assumption online. It could have been that EA had enough of the management at Montreal and decided to close the studio long before the game was even released. ...That's rather optimistic and not at all really how people have observed EA operating in the past. Its similar to the reasoning for Visceral with a rift between management and the other employees causing problematic development if the reports are accurate. Visceral had spent two years working on a Star Wars game and barely had a few months worth of work completed and add in the internal friction between Amy Hennig and the other development members. Which you can see also being present in BioWare Montreal when that leadership wanted nothing to do with BioWare Edmonton and also putting money hand over fist into things like procedural generated planets.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 8, 2019 22:04:45 GMT
Did you poll every gamer in the planet? You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda. Oh the horrors of someone liking something you don't like and why shouldn't someone do that? Isn't not adding them people to the mix a form of censorship?
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Post by colfoley on Sept 8, 2019 22:28:03 GMT
This thread is the proof on why popular opinion is irrelevant at the end of the day.
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