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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 10, 2019 11:05:12 GMT
It isnt silly at all. We orbit and go pro and retrograde because it's the most fuel efficient way to move orbits. It's perfectly viably to accelerate directly at the planet to land at a planetary impact point given enough acceleration. You'd need bombs that resist re-entry (only on atmospheric planets). I don't think the space station has bomb bay doors that would just open and drop bombs on the planet. Why would an advanced society adopt such a principle? What they fire and how they fire it is likely going to be guided in more invisible ways. Heck, even the laser turrets in FO4 are mere little globes with eyes... no gun barrels evident there. Why does ME2 need a barrel on a cannon that encroaches halfway into the ship and is located right next to the frickin' med bay? It's a particle accelerator. Accelerating particles needs a racetrack to accelerate them. The emitter is actually the smallest part of a laser or particle weapon.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 10, 2019 11:23:56 GMT
To me, it's sillier that the Normandy SR1 had weapons and yet failed to even attempt to use them against the Collector Ship at the beginning of ME2. Ah yes, the SR1 failed to fire back at the collector ship. That's hard to do when the ship suffered serious damage after the first shot, a shot that was fired while the collector ship was behind the Normandy. Of course it didn't help that Moreau flew into the line of fire when first fired at. Had he not done that, it might have been possible to get to ftl before taking any damage. It seems like the Initiative have no interest in defenses or safety for the occupants of the ships that were built. They build these fancy ships without the capability of defending themselves, if they encounter an enemy. Taking another potshot at the fans who wanted the ships to have weapons, weapons that could be used to defend themselves or at least get them out of trouble before taking more damage. The interior of the Tempest was poorly designed. Why is a character residing in the area that has the escape pod? Why is there one area for crafting items, but another area to add mods to those items? Why is there an unused area near the spot where the player adds mods to their equipment? For a ship as small as it is, why is the cabin Ryder resides in so large?
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 10, 2019 11:47:46 GMT
To me, it's sillier that the Normandy SR1 had weapons and yet failed to even attempt to use them against the Collector Ship at the beginning of ME2. Ah yes, the SR1 failed to fire back at the collector ship. That's hard to do when the ship suffered serious damage after the first shot, a shot that was fired while the collector ship was behind the Normandy. Of course it didn't help that Moreau flew into the line of fire when first fired at. Had he not done that, it might have been possible to get to ftl before taking any damage. It seems like the Initiative have no interest in defenses or safety for the occupants of the ships that were built. They build these fancy ships without the capability of defending themselves, if they encounter an enemy. Taking another potshot at the fans who wanted the ships to have weapons, weapons that could be used to defend themselves or at least get them out of trouble before taking more damage. The interior of the Tempest was poorly designed. Why is a character residing in the area that has the escape pod? Why is there one area for crafting items, but another area to add mods to those items? Why is there an unused area near the spot where the player adds mods to their equipment? For a ship as small as it is, why is the cabin Ryder resides in so large? It was planned to be able to jettison that character out the airlock but Andromeda's troubled development ultimately had that desirable feature cut.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 11:56:39 GMT
To me, it's sillier that the Normandy SR1 had weapons and yet failed to even attempt to use them against the Collector Ship at the beginning of ME2. Ah yes, the SR1 failed to fire back at the collector ship. That's hard to do when the ship suffered serious damage after the first shot, a shot that was fired while the collector ship was behind the Normandy. Of course it didn't help that Moreau flew into the line of fire when first fired at. Had he not done that, it might have been possible to get to ftl before taking any damage. It seems like the Initiative have no interest in defenses or safety for the occupants of the ships that were built. They build these fancy ships without the capability of defending themselves, if they encounter an enemy. Taking another potshot at the fans who wanted the ships to have weapons, weapons that could be used to defend themselves or at least get them out of trouble before taking more damage. The interior of the Tempest was poorly designed. Why is a character residing in the area that has the escape pod? Why is there one area for crafting items, but another area to add mods to those items? Why is there an unused area near the spot where the player adds mods to their equipment? For a ship as small as it is, why is the cabin Ryder resides in so large? 1) Moreau should have been able to detect and defend (put up shields at least) even as the suspicious vessel was far behind the ship Obviously, Normandy's stealth drive wasn't "the only one" as Pressly declared at the start of ME1 if the Collectors had them... except they didn't have them since Joker did detect the ship and thought it was geth... but if he thought it was geth, he should have been even more prepared to be attacked. He didn't raise any sort of defensive shield, just the kinetic barrier (which came down with the first hit). No evidence of being able to shoot lasers from the rear of the ship. No evidence of being able to launch a guided anything... and certainly not nearly as maneuverable as the ship was shown to be during the fight with Saren in ME1.
2) The appearance of gun turrets all over a spaceship would be pandering to a fandom that wants visible weapons that are somewhat recognizable as weapons to us mere mortals, yes. I would hope for something more akin to advanced space weaponry. Even the Enterprise doesn't have visible turrets. Mass Effects insistence on portraying weaponry in WWII clothing is, IMO, more irritating than just leaving it out entirely.
3) The interior of the SR2 was poorly designed as well. Why are there two lounge areas, one with a full bar with just glass bottles sitting out on a shelf and since when does a bar have a bed sitting out in the open in the back of it and the Consort's recliner sitting in the other part. Then we have a cot conveniently sitting down below the cargo bay. In ME3, Samantha mentions swinging around in a harness... where are any of those shown to us on that version of the ship? Even when it's fleeing from the final battle, people are just walking about... no one is strapped in anywhere. The SR2 has an advanced AI for defense... yet, beyond the Omege 4 relay, Joker has to fire the cannon using a manual trigger button. Why? Shouldn't EDI have already calculated everything and fired before Joker could even think about doing so?
Many of the issues people like to make seem are unique to ME:A were issues carried forward right from ME1... based on lack of design understanding and planning evident right from the start. You continue to what to deny that... protectively isolating the OT as somehow being "perfect." The errors were not corrected in ME:A. The Tempest is poorly designed AS WELL as the Normandy was poorly designed. Since the Tempest's design was based on the same game design philosophy as the Normandy, it wasn't an improvement over their earlier mistakes with it. IF the next ME ship is not going to be poorly designed... their design philosophy is what has to change.
... but IF they change it to actually make it better, what do want to bet that they'll get "It doesn't feel like a Mass Effect game" from the fandom (who are so locked into the OT that nothing else will pacify them anyways).. and yes, that's another "pot shot" at the fandom.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 12:22:01 GMT
Ah yes, the SR1 failed to fire back at the collector ship. That's hard to do when the ship suffered serious damage after the first shot, a shot that was fired while the collector ship was behind the Normandy. Of course it didn't help that Moreau flew into the line of fire when first fired at. Had he not done that, it might have been possible to get to ftl before taking any damage. It seems like the Initiative have no interest in defenses or safety for the occupants of the ships that were built. They build these fancy ships without the capability of defending themselves, if they encounter an enemy. Taking another potshot at the fans who wanted the ships to have weapons, weapons that could be used to defend themselves or at least get them out of trouble before taking more damage. The interior of the Tempest was poorly designed. Why is a character residing in the area that has the escape pod? Why is there one area for crafting items, but another area to add mods to those items? Why is there an unused area near the spot where the player adds mods to their equipment? For a ship as small as it is, why is the cabin Ryder resides in so large? It was planned to be able to jettison that character out the airlock but Andromeda's troubled development ultimately had that desirable feature cut. Speaking of the escape pods - where are they on the SR1 in ME1 and how does that ship all of a sudden have access areas to whole banks of them on either side of the hull when no such pathway and "doors" exist on the interior anywhere in ME1? There's 6 seats per escape pod and at least 6 pods per side, not including the additional pod behind the bridge that Joker eventually uses = but only 8 sleeping pods.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 10, 2019 12:28:32 GMT
It was planned to be able to jettison that character out the airlock but Andromeda's troubled development ultimately had that desirable feature cut. Speaking of the escape pods - where are they on the SR1 in ME1 and how does that ship all of a sudden have access areas to whole banks of them on either side of the hull when no such pathway and "doors" exist on the interior anywhere in ME1? There's 6 seats per escape pod and at least 6 pods per side, not including the additional pod behind the bridge that Joker eventually uses = but only 8 sleeping pods. They went down the gutter with all the other minor details that dont affect the storytelling and are easily suspended by disbelief.
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Post by warden on Oct 10, 2019 13:04:50 GMT
I would want the Ebon Hawk to be my ship.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 10, 2019 13:18:52 GMT
The interior of the SR2 was poorly designed as well. Yet everyone had a space they could reside in instead of hanging around escape pods as that one character does in MEA, right? Plus the SR2 is a much larger vessel, so it can have a few extra luxuries. There you go again. Comparing stuff that happened in the trilogy. That means nothing was learned when making MEA since the same mistakes are repeated. Wrong. I've never said the trilogy was perfect.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 13:48:20 GMT
The interior of the SR2 was poorly designed as well. Yet everyone had a space they could reside in instead of hanging around escape pods as that one character does in MEA, right? Plus the SR2 is a much larger vessel, so it can have a few extra luxuries. There you go again. Comparing stuff that happened in the trilogy. That means nothing was learned when making MEA since the same mistakes are repeated. Wrong. I've never said the trilogy was perfect. Yeah... a fully installed full-sized proper bed placed at the back of a lounge makes a lot of sense... not to me. Kasumi should have been able to bunk out on the couch since she never left it anyways. Having sex in the engine room - eschewing your palatial bed in your own quarters also makes infinite sense over eschewing a shared bed in the crew quarters to sleep in a rucksack on the floor anywhere in the ship (including the room in front of the escape pod) when the benefit of not "hot bunking" is to be able to sleep when you like and allow the person you're sharing that bed assignment with to also sleep when they like... sure... not for me. Having 8 pods for a crew of at least 20 and probably close to 78 (13 * 6 - based on the number of escape pods) makes more sense... sure... not for me.
ALL ME ships are poorly designed... designed without any consistency or thought to the size of the crew and the purpose of the vessel itself. Bioware wsn't good at that in 2007 and they are STILL not good at it today. So, yeah, I'm saying essentially nothing was learned. The only thing that was learned is that the crew is now only double the bunk count instead of the crew being almost 10 times the bunk count.
... and in my post above, I never implied that the Tempest was well designed... nor have I ever said ME:A was perfect (although you've never hesitated to accuse me of that). ME:A made an improvement over ME1 and ME2 by reflecting 4 bunks for 8 crew (with hot bunking implied) as opposed to showing 8 bunks for a much larger implied crew. It's still poor design, but showing signs of some improvement. ME1 was better in showing sleeping pods (where the person sleeping would be secured) but the move to regular beds was made in ME2, not in ME:A... ME:A, in fact, showed a little improvement in that design in that the bunks were enclosed a little bit (like the berths you saw on trains)... You know... in case gravity is lost while people are sleeping. As for wasted space, the SR2 had far more of that than the Tempest. That issue started with the huge double staircases plopped onto the SR-1. The SR2 at least eliminated those, but then added in two big lounges. The Tempest added the staircases back in (copying the SR1). Having the staircases lead to the comms area (or what was the War Room in ME3) and giving that room a 360 view of the exterior of the ship, I thought, was an improvement... over having every visitor to the ship walk freely right past the CIC (control center for ship's navigation) and only afterward walking through security (by guard in ME1 or scanner in ME3) to get to the meeting room. The Tempest missed having a mess hall and the galley was too small to be practical. Their ship design SUCKS in all the ME games. They NEED to change how they think about it... and then we might get designs that make more practical sense overall.
ETA: Also, since you like to complain about Drack bunking out in the kitchen... what about Zaeed... camped out right in front of the garbage disposal... a garbage disposal that magically gets replaced by a bed the moment Allers moves in.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 10, 2019 14:42:37 GMT
The interior of the SR2 was poorly designed as well. Yet everyone had a space they could reside in instead of hanging around escape pods as that one character does in MEA, right? Plus the SR2 is a much larger vessel, so it can have a few extra luxuries. There you go again. Comparing stuff that happened in the trilogy. That means nothing was learned when making MEA since the same mistakes are repeated. Wrong. I've never said the trilogy was perfect. I think they went a little overboard here and there in ME2, namely Kasumi, who basically takes over what is essentially a common area on the ship. For the rest, I try to reconcile a lot of it with the bunks that Bio finally added to the ship. The SR1 basically only had one bed lol
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 10, 2019 20:58:13 GMT
There are some issues with all the ships but none of them major imo. Only glaring issue is the Tempest should have had at least weapon ports that could take a weapon once proper relations were established. Running into the unknown with weapons doesn't bode well for diplomacy.
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Post by michaelm on Oct 18, 2019 2:37:55 GMT
If it were the Milky Way, an Alliance Navy Carrier that acts as a player hub and home base. You depart on missions from it, use its on board facilities to train character skills and upgrade equipment. But thats just a pipe dream. Hero ships are always small.
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Post by ahglock on Oct 18, 2019 4:41:40 GMT
Yet everyone had a space they could reside in instead of hanging around escape pods as that one character does in MEA, right? Plus the SR2 is a much larger vessel, so it can have a few extra luxuries. There you go again. Comparing stuff that happened in the trilogy. That means nothing was learned when making MEA since the same mistakes are repeated. Wrong. I've never said the trilogy was perfect. I think they went a little overboard here and there in ME2, namely Kasumi, who basically takes over what is essentially a common area on the ship. For the rest, I try to reconcile a lot of it with the bunks that Bio finally added to the ship. The SR1 basically only had one bed lol For me when playing ME1, I just assumed the beds were off camera, like when you taken the elevator they were 1 floor down the cargo hold was 2 floors down, you just never had a reason to stop one floor down. When they actually detail them and it doesn't make sense I find that to be worse. In the case of ME1 when I read up on it, they are apparently there. The vertical coffin looking things Kaiden stands near are supposed to be sleeper pods. I guess a attempt at sci-fi realism or something. So the crew had places to sleep, but in a weird uncomfortable vertical coffin pod. I prefer my initial assumption of them just being off camera.
The escape pods are off camera by being recessed and built into the walls but you just never interact with the door. MEA I think screwed it up by having one you can interact with because then I'm like wait one it fits 4 people, the crew is bigger than that. That seems bad. It is harder to buy off camera when you actually put one on camera to see.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 18, 2019 5:15:29 GMT
I think they went a little overboard here and there in ME2, namely Kasumi, who basically takes over what is essentially a common area on the ship. For the rest, I try to reconcile a lot of it with the bunks that Bio finally added to the ship. The SR1 basically only had one bed lol For me when playing ME1, I just assumed the beds were off camera, like when you taken the elevator they were 1 floor down the cargo hold was 2 floors down, you just never had a reason to stop one floor down. When they actually detail them and it doesn't make sense I find that to be worse. In the case of ME1 when I read up on it, they are apparently there. The vertical coffin looking things Kaiden stands near are supposed to be sleeper pods. I guess a attempt at sci-fi realism or something. So the crew had places to sleep, but in a weird uncomfortable vertical coffin pod. I prefer my initial assumption of them just being off camera.
The escape pods are off camera by being recessed and built into the walls but you just never interact with the door. MEA I think screwed it up by having one you can interact with because then I'm like wait one it fits 4 people, the crew is bigger than that. That seems bad. It is harder to buy off camera when you actually put one on camera to see.
I thought the same about them being off camera. Unless the SR1 didn’t have any toilets either. As for the Tempest beds, it’s just hotbunking aka they share beds in turns. And also considering that some sleep or can sleep in other areas it actually comes out to exactly four needing beds in there so it works.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 13:56:09 GMT
I think they went a little overboard here and there in ME2, namely Kasumi, who basically takes over what is essentially a common area on the ship. For the rest, I try to reconcile a lot of it with the bunks that Bio finally added to the ship. The SR1 basically only had one bed lol For me when playing ME1, I just assumed the beds were off camera, like when you taken the elevator they were 1 floor down the cargo hold was 2 floors down, you just never had a reason to stop one floor down. When they actually detail them and it doesn't make sense I find that to be worse. In the case of ME1 when I read up on it, they are apparently there. The vertical coffin looking things Kaiden stands near are supposed to be sleeper pods. I guess a attempt at sci-fi realism or something. So the crew had places to sleep, but in a weird uncomfortable vertical coffin pod. I prefer my initial assumption of them just being off camera.
The escape pods are off camera by being recessed and built into the walls but you just never interact with the door. MEA I think screwed it up by having one you can interact with because then I'm like wait one it fits 4 people, the crew is bigger than that. That seems bad. It is harder to buy off camera when you actually put one on camera to see.
We were shown the sleeping pods on the SR-1 (total 8). They do seem to be set up to move into a horizontal position when in use. So, I'm not sure where you're coming from with your first paragraph. We were shown an inadequate number of sleeping spaces for the size of the crew on the Normandy SR1.
There are no doors on the ship that we cannot open... no door shown at the front of the ship (where the gunnery station is on the SR2) and no door shown at the base of the double stairs meet at the bottom (where the crew quarters and life support are located on the SR-2 which eliminated those stairs) Furthermore, the SR1 has a sunken comms area, which would eat into the space where the crew quarters and life support are shown on the SR2. Given the flow of the two designs, including the fact that you can see the drive core from life support and the cargo hold from engineering on the SR-2 AND the fact that the the floors on the elevator on the SR-2 are numbered... there is no space for an additional crew deck below the crew deck we are shown on either ship.
It was possible to assume that the crew consisted of a maximum of 10 people with 6 squad in ME1 and the sleeping was handled by hot bunking... except ME2 immediately revealed that the crew size was much, much larger (as high as 78 given the number of escape pods with 6 seats each we are shown as the SR1 blows up). Then ME2 goes a step further confirming the larger crew size with the "most survived" statement by Jacob combined with 20 dog tags of the deceased at the Normandy Crash Site. ME1 and ME2 messed it up.
The SR2's sleeping arrangements for the squad are every bit as ridiculous and those of either PeeBee or Drack. Thane, an alien assassin you just picked up, being given free reign to sleep in your Life Support area? A geth bunking out in your server core? A bed found in the back end of the public lounge? No beds showing any means to secure the occupant in case gravity is lost while they are sleeping?
Face it, ME:A wasn't the only game to mess up sleeping arrangements... it just continued in the same tradition as the OT.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 18, 2019 14:11:04 GMT
MEA messed up the tempest having a character occupy a space that houses the escape pod. Then there's a space for crafting weapons and armor, yet the player has to go to a different spot on the ship to add mods. Then there's the oversized cabin for Ryder. Near the area to add mods, there's an empty space doing a whole lot of nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 15:29:36 GMT
MEA messed up the tempest having a character occupy a space that houses the escape pod. Then there's a space for crafting weapons and armor, yet the player has to go to a different spot on the ship to add mods. Then there's the oversized cabin for Ryder. Near the area to add mods, there's an empty space doing a whole lot of nothing. On the SR2, one has to go to Mordin's tech lab to craft mods, then the armor change station is in Shepard's cabin, and then go to a weapons bench to change out the weapons. In ME3, mods cannot be crafted, but must be purchased on one console and then added at the weapons bench. The armor is still changed at a separate terminal, but at least they added one of those near the weapons bench. In ME1, one has to go to the crew lockers to change out equipment on crew members. In ME:A, weapons and armor can be changed at the same terminal. Changing crew loadout is not an issue in ME:A. All of them also have a facility for changing and adding mods when starting a mission and adds the ability to change it all at any forward station. So, I fail to see where how Me;A handles it is any more inconvenient to the player than the OT or that it wastes more space on the Tempest than it does on the other two ships. The space doing nothing next to the load station is described as being the airlock during the quest where you go hunting for the extra weight. It's where the exit door and scanner would have been on the SR1. Since the crew enter and exit the ship through the cargo door, that door area is never seen to be used on Tempest. I don't know when the idea of the door being there got eliminated, but it is another illustration of Bioware continuing to make mistakes when designing their ships.
ME2 is the game that added an oversized cabin for Shepard... so that too was a continuation of the earlier design when it appeared in ME:A. Both cabins are far too large and opulent to be aboard a ship. At least ME:A doesn't have a fish tank in it, which is totally impractical aboard a vessel that could lose it's gravity. The SR1 did have a more realistic captain's space... but, as I recall, people were asking for a space where they could display collections and wanted to be able to collect more varied items for their cabin along the lines of items that appeared in Picard's cabin during TNG. So, is Tempest's cabin too large or was there just not enough knick knacks in the game for Ryder to collect. Perhaps additional collection items were being planned for DLC.
The cabin space space issue could have been easily resolved by taking space from the cabin and inserting a table in the kitchen area for the crew to sit and eat.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 20, 2019 16:58:37 GMT
MEA messed up the tempest having a character occupy a space that houses the escape pod. Then there's a space for crafting weapons and armor, yet the player has to go to a different spot on the ship to add mods. Then there's the oversized cabin for Ryder. Near the area to add mods, there's an empty space doing a whole lot of nothing. On the SR2, one has to go to Mordin's tech lab to craft mods, then the armor change station is in Shepard's cabin, and then go to a weapons bench to change out the weapons. In ME3, mods cannot be crafted, but must be purchased on one console and then added at the weapons bench. The armor is still changed at a separate terminal, but at least they added one of those near the weapons bench. In ME1, one has to go to the crew lockers to change out equipment on crew members. In ME:A, weapons and armor can be changed at the same terminal. Changing crew loadout is not an issue in ME:A. All of them also have a facility for changing and adding mods when starting a mission and adds the ability to change it all at any forward station. So, I fail to see where how Me;A handles it is any more inconvenient to the player than the OT or that it wastes more space on the Tempest than it does on the other two ships. The space doing nothing next to the load station is described as being the airlock during the quest where you go hunting for the extra weight. It's where the exit door and scanner would have been on the SR1. Since the crew enter and exit the ship through the cargo door, that door area is never seen to be used on Tempest. I don't know when the idea of the door being there got eliminated, but it is another illustration of Bioware continuing to make mistakes when designing their ships.
ME2 is the game that added an oversized cabin for Shepard... so that too was a continuation of the earlier design when it appeared in ME:A. Both cabins are far too large and opulent to be aboard a ship. At least ME:A doesn't have a fish tank in it, which is totally impractical aboard a vessel that could lose it's gravity. The SR1 did have a more realistic captain's space... but, as I recall, people were asking for a space where they could display collections and wanted to be able to collect more varied items for their cabin along the lines of items that appeared in Picard's cabin during TNG. So, is Tempest's cabin too large or was there just not enough knick knacks in the game for Ryder to collect. Perhaps additional collection items were being planned for DLC.
The cabin space space issue could have been easily resolved by taking space from the cabin and inserting a table in the kitchen area for the crew to sit and eat.
I like the Cabin. But yes it was a bit "luxury liner" for a space ship.
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Post by x19dude95 on Oct 26, 2019 13:06:26 GMT
The Fish tank is a reference to Star Track. And I want one back.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 30, 2019 0:39:55 GMT
The Fish tank is a reference to Star Track. And I want one back. I loved the fish tank. And space hamster.
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