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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 13:00:32 GMT
When Shepard arrives to lala land, the thing looks over at the ems board. It sees a number which tells it what choices to offer the organic before it. It doesn't give a crap if you got peace, cured whatever, gathered this, that and the other thing. It only cares about the number. At that point it determines what it will say to the organic for Shepard to make a choice. Of course it adds a lot of butter for the green since that's what it wants.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Sept 4, 2019 13:04:06 GMT
When Shepard arrives to lala land, the thing looks over at the ems board. It sees a number which tells it what choices to offer the organic before it. It doesn't give a crap if you got peace, cured whatever, gathered this, that and the other thing. It only cares about the number. At that point it determines what it will say to the organic for Shepard to make a choice. Of course it adds a lot of butter for the green since that's what it wants. Right, I look at it as huskifying the entire galaxy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 16:03:40 GMT
When Shepard arrives to lala land, the thing looks over at the ems board. It sees a number which tells it what choices to offer the organic before it. It doesn't give a crap if you got peace, cured whatever, gathered this, that and the other thing. It only cares about the number. At that point it determines what it will say to the organic for Shepard to make a choice. Of course it adds a lot of butter for the green since that's what it wants. I just love how people flip around here from assessing "insanity" to the Catalyst and what it "wants" and it's ability to deceive on one hand... and then effectively say it can't be reasoned with because it's a machine.
If what it wants is built into its programming, then ALL it wants is a solution. It's caught in the "harvesting" logic loop only because it has not found a solution. That is, the programming already recognizes that harvesting is not the solution. The geth/quarian war proves there is a solution...negotiated peace. Once given a solution, then, the program simply ends. The logic loop is broken and the catalyst just turns off - Solution found = end program.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 4, 2019 17:46:26 GMT
At this point, it's pretty clear that the reasoning goes from the desired conclusions to the necessary premises, rather than the other way around.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 4, 2019 20:23:15 GMT
Keelah, you guys know that listening to TIM for more than five secs causes your indoctrination resistance to drop by 30% and also causes Cutscene Stupidity Level 10-induced paralysis, just as experienced by ME3 Shepard on Thessia. Agreeing with him makes you suffer another -100% and being a Cerberus fanboy adds further -200%. Trusting TIM / Cerberus in any way will cause you to be indoctrinated immediately, with no saving throw allowed, not even via pizza. Being nice to a non-asshole asari might remedy the weaker effects, but probably does not work once affected by the higher penalties. You're forgetting about the Javik effect. Shepard and the other squadmate get a +100% indoctrination resistance while t'soni gets a -100% resistance. That's because she appears confused, not very good at noticing obvious observations and didn't study enough about the protheans making her the not so-called prothean expert. I do agree that she suffers from induced paralysis as Leng runs to her. Because of that, she takes a flight on Kai Leng Airlines. Well to be fair she wasn't the only person studying the protheans. I mean there were thousands and the hanar got it wrong and they worshipped the protheans.
Also if your gonna go after tsoni for her cutscene stuff you have to tell me why thane ran towards kai leng when kai leng had a sword and thane had a gun . Plus many many other stupid cut scene actions in ME3 from a bunch of different characters
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 20:34:36 GMT
You're forgetting about the Javik effect. Shepard and the other squadmate get a +100% indoctrination resistance while t'soni gets a -100% resistance. That's because she appears confused, not very good at noticing obvious observations and didn't study enough about the protheans making her the not so-called prothean expert. I do agree that she suffers from induced paralysis as Leng runs to her. Because of that, she takes a flight on Kai Leng Airlines. Well to be fair she wasn't the only person studying the protheans. I mean there were thousands and the hanar got it wrong and they worshipped the protheans.
Also if your gonna go after tsoni for her cutscene stuff you have to tell me why thane ran towards kai leng when kai leng had a sword and thane had a gun . Plus many many other stupid cut scene actions in ME3 from a bunch of different characters
Were the Hanar considered experts?
I agree about Thane, and others, but I responded to a post that mentioned Thessia. If the poster mentioned the coup and others, I would have responded to those as well.
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 4, 2019 20:42:28 GMT
Something a lot of people seem to ignore is that the harvesting is inherently not a solution unto itself, it’s a stopgap compromise so that the Reapers can fulfill their purpose. If they wanted organics dead inherently, they’d just sit on the galaxy and exterminate life whenever it cropped up. The harvest is a compromise to let organic life exist for a certain amount of time before they are purged so that new life can emerge without complication from other synthetics.
So saying they can’t be reasoned with is untrue. They cannot be reasoned with as long as they believe their stopgap remains a feasible measure and no better solution is offered. With the construction of the Crucible it becomes clear that odds are the Reapers will eventually be defeated outright, so making another compromise is the logical thing to do in such a situation.
Also, it’s quite likely that they don’t really think of the harvests as true death, as well, seeing as it is heavily implied that the uploaded minds of everyone they ever assimilated over the eons still exist in the Reapers in some form.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 4, 2019 20:51:56 GMT
Something a lot of people seem to ignore is that the harvesting is inherently not a solution unto itself, it’s a stopgap compromise so that the Reapers can fulfill their purpose. If they wanted organics dead inherently, they’d just sit on the galaxy and exterminate life whenever it cropped up. The harvest is a compromise to let organic life exist for a certain amount of time before they are purged so that new life can emerge without complication from other synthetics. So saying they can’t be reasoned with is untrue. They cannot be reasoned with as long as they believe their stopgap remains a feasible measure and no better solution is offered. With the construction of the Crucible it becomes clear that odds are the Reapers will eventually be defeated outright, so making another compromise is the logical thing to do in such a situation. Also, it’s quite likely that they don’t really think of the harvests as true death, as well, seeing as it is heavily implied that the uploaded minds of everyone they ever assimilated over the eons still exist in the Reapers in some form. Well the crucible depends on the citadel. Just don't have the citadel there anymore or find a way to make it impossible to use it that way. I never understood how the reapers plans were impossible since we figured out the crucible. There were easy ways to fix this. Also the only reason organics could use the citadel for it is because the reapers didn't get it right off the back like usual and that was because the protheans messed with it. They could easily leave some reaper agent behind to make sure that doesn't happen again.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 4, 2019 20:53:47 GMT
Well to be fair she wasn't the only person studying the protheans. I mean there were thousands and the hanar got it wrong and they worshipped the protheans.
Also if your gonna go after tsoni for her cutscene stuff you have to tell me why thane ran towards kai leng when kai leng had a sword and thane had a gun . Plus many many other stupid cut scene actions in ME3 from a bunch of different characters
Were the Hanar considered experts?
I agree about Thane, and others, but I responded to a post that mentioned Thessia. If the poster mentioned the coup and others, I would have responded to those as well.
Fair enough. I just don't like how liara seems to get all the blame when so many others did stuff like that. But that is a in general thing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:03:36 GMT
Well to be fair she wasn't the only person studying the protheans. I mean there were thousands and the hanar got it wrong and they worshipped the protheans.
Also if your gonna go after tsoni for her cutscene stuff you have to tell me why thane ran towards kai leng when kai leng had a sword and thane had a gun . Plus many many other stupid cut scene actions in ME3 from a bunch of different characters
Were the Hanar considered experts?
I agree about Thane, and others, but I responded to a post that mentioned Thessia. If the poster mentioned the coup and others, I would have responded to those as well.
Was T'soni considered an expert? She says herself in ME1 that she is considered to be barely more than a child and her research isn't being taken very seriously by her own species.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 4, 2019 21:18:31 GMT
Well, since some of you apparently asked for it, here's my list of cutscene stupidity occurences, awfully contrived scenes and bad writing in general. I'm not putting any blame solely on Liara in here, I put it on the general writing style. TMF is our resident Liara hater here. I'm just annoyed by Cerberus being Mary Sue Space Nazis. ME2 Prologue Station: Shepard suddenly getting amnesia (or braindead?) when confronted with the fact that Lazarus is run by Cerberus. Prologue Station: Shepard optionally not trying to get the two Cerberus cronies out of the way (kocking them out, shooting their heads of... Idk) Prologue: Shepard being railroaded into being the lapdog of known bunch of terrorists. More bad writing than stupidity. It might work for the "default worldstate", but not anybody else. What if... - Shepard is not racist or "Humanity #1"? - Shepard did the Cerberus mission chain in ME and decided they are more harm than good (this also works for "racist" Shepards who disagree with TIM's methods). - Shepard has the Sole Survivor background and did the Cerberus mission chain in ME? ME3 Earth: Shepard going PTSD because 1 random kid died, while the Reapers are massacr'ing thousands of others, including other children. Blatant instrumentalisation of children. Mars: Shepard standing in attention and listening to TIM's blathering instead of going for the Evabot. At least for those Shepards who tried (not that it would be really possible) to give TIM the finger in ME2 and denied him "his" collector toys. Mars: Ashley / Kaidan getting unreasonably close to Evabot instead of just shooting its head off. The same dumb arranged was later used in DAI when Inq encounters the fake Lord Seeker at Therinfall. Mars: When crispy Evabot emerges from the crashed shuttle, not shooting its head off immediately. Sur'kesh: The Salarians, who should have several centuries more experience with dirty black ops and questionable science, being braindead and surprised by a Cerberus assault. Citadel, the Coup: Thane going to "awesome melee" Leng instead of trying to shoot his head off. Citadel, the Coup: Leng's attempts at hiding and his miraculous escapes and convenient shield bubbles. Citadel, the Coup: Not giving Shepard a renegade attempt to shoot Udina immediately, consequences be damned. Thessia: Shepard and Co. watching Leng's approach instead of trying to shoot his head off. Thessia: Shepard and Co. standing in attention and listening to TIM's blathering again instead of trying to shoot Kai Leng's head off. Thessia: The ridiculous pseudo boss fight. Thessia, aftermath: Shepard musing about having failed while the goal was not to battle the Reapers on the ground and losing a boss fight that is not meant to be won. How I am supposed to take Shepard seriously here? General: Liara having no clue about Cerberus. The Alliance having no clue about Cerberus. MET in general: Suddenly everybody getting braindead as soon as a Cerberus operative shows up. I guess TIM and his higher ups have a way to cause cutscene stupidity in characters.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 4, 2019 21:24:05 GMT
Well, since some of you apparently asked for it, here's my list of cutscene stupidity occurences, awfully contrived scenes and bad writing in general. I'm not putting any blame solely on Liara in here, I put it on the general writing style. TMF is our resident Liara hater here. I'm just annoyed by Cerberus being Mary Sue Space Nazis. ME2 Prologue Station: Shepard suddenly getting amnesia (or braindead?) when confronted with the fact that Lazarus is run by Cerberus. Prologue Station: Shepard optionally not trying to get the two Cerberus cronies out of the way (kocking them out, shooting their heads of... Idk) Prologue: Shepard being railroaded into being the lapdog of known bunch of terrorists. More bad writing than stupidity. It might work for the "default worldstate", but not anybody else. What if... - Shepard is not racist or "Humanity #1"? - Shepard did the Cerberus mission chain in ME and decided they are more harm than good (this also works for "racist" Shepards who disagree with TIM's methods). - Shepard has the Sole Survivor background and did the Cerberus mission chain in ME? ME3 Earth: Shepard going PTSD because 1 random kid died, while the Reapers are massacr'ing thousands of others, including other children. Blatant instrumentalisation of children. Mars: Shepard standing in attention and listening to TIM's blathering instead of going for the Evabot. At least for those Shepards who tried (not that it would be really possible) to give TIM the finger in ME2 and denied him "his" collector toys. Mars: Ashley / Kaidan getting unreasonably close to Evabot instead of just shooting its head off. The same dumb arranged was later used in DAI when Inq encounters the fake Lord Seeker at Therinfall. Mars: When crispy Evabot emerges from the crashed shuttle, not shooting its head off immediately. Sur'kesh: The Salarians, who should have several centuries more experience with dirty black ops and questionable science, being braindead and surprised by a Cerberus assault. Citadel, the Coup: Thane going to "awesome melee" Leng instead of trying to shoot his head off. Citadel, the Coup: Leng's attempts at hiding and his miraculous escapes and convenient shield bubbles. Citadel, the Coup: Not giving Shepard a renegade attempt to shoot Udina immediately, consequences be damned. Thessia: Shepard and Co. watching Leng's approach instead of trying to shoot his head off. Thessia: Shepard and Co. standing in attention and listening to TIM's blathering again instead of trying to shoot Kai Leng's head off. Thessia: The ridiculous pseudo boss fight. Thessia, aftermath: Shepard musing about having failed while the goal was not to battle the Reapers on the ground and losing a boss fight that is not meant to be won. How I am supposed to take Shepard seriously here? General: Liara having no clue about Cerberus. The Alliance having no clue about Cerberus. MET in general: Suddenly everybody getting braindead as soon as a Cerberus operative shows up. I guess TIM and his higher ups have a way to cause cutscene stupidity in characters. You may have missed a few but yeah, that sums it up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:29:29 GMT
Well, since some of you apparently asked for it, here's my list of cutscene stupidity occurences, awfully contrived scenes and bad writing in general. I'm not putting any blame solely on Liara in here, I put it on the general writing style. TMF is our resident Liara hater here. I'm just annoyed by Cerberus being Mary Sue Space Nazis. ME2 Prologue Station: Shepard suddenly getting amnesia (or braindead?) when confronted with the fact that Lazarus is run by Cerberus. Prologue Station: Shepard optionally not trying to get the two Cerberus cronies out of the way (kocking them out, shooting their heads of... Idk) Prologue: Shepard being railroaded into being the lapdog of known bunch of terrorists. More bad writing than stupidity. It might work for the "default worldstate", but not anybody else. What if... - Shepard is not racist or "Humanity #1"? - Shepard did the Cerberus mission chain in ME and decided they are more harm than good (this also works for "racist" Shepards who disagree with TIM's methods). - Shepard has the Sole Survivor background and did the Cerberus mission chain in ME? ME3 Earth: Shepard going PTSD because 1 random kid died, while the Reapers are massacr'ing thousands of others, including other children. Blatant instrumentalisation of children. Mars: Shepard standing in attention and listening to TIM's blathering instead of going for the Evabot. At least for those Shepards who tried (not that it would be really possible) to give TIM the finger in ME2 and denied him "his" collector toys. Mars: Ashley / Kaidan getting unreasonably close to Evabot instead of just shooting its head off. The same dumb arranged was later used in DAI when Inq encounters the fake Lord Seeker at Therinfall. Mars: When crispy Evabot emerges from the crashed shuttle, not shooting its head off immediately. Sur'kesh: The Salarians, who should have several centuries more experience with dirty black ops and questionable science, being braindead and surprised by a Cerberus assault. Citadel, the Coup: Thane going to "awesome melee" Leng instead of trying to shoot his head off. Citadel, the Coup: Leng's attempts at hiding and his miraculous escapes and convenient shield bubbles. Citadel, the Coup: Not giving Shepard a renegade attempt to shoot Udina immediately, consequences be damned. Thessia: Shepard and Co. watching Leng's approach instead of trying to shoot his head off. Thessia: Shepard and Co. standing in attention and listening to TIM's blathering again instead of trying to shoot Kai Leng's head off. Thessia: The ridiculous pseudo boss fight. Thessia, aftermath: Shepard musing about having failed while the goal was not to battle the Reapers on the ground and losing a boss fight that is not meant to be won. How I am supposed to take Shepard seriously here? General: Liara having no clue about Cerberus. The Alliance having no clue about Cerberus. MET in general: Suddenly everybody getting braindead as soon as a Cerberus operative shows up. I guess TIM and his higher ups have a way to cause cutscene stupidity in characters. Thessia - However, Shepard did fail the mission. The goal was to recover the artifact and Shepard failed to do that.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 21:29:31 GMT
Well, since some of you apparently asked for it, here's my list of cutscene stupidity occurences, awfully contrived scenes and bad writing in general. Nearly everything you're mentioned, myself and others have mentioned before especially in the things that don't make sense thread.
With that said, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to remake the trilogy.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 21:32:54 GMT
Thessia - However, Shepard did fail the mission. The goal was to recover the artifact and Shepard failed to do that. Had the asari revealed the artifact earlier, it's possible Shepard would have retrieved the information without Cerberus interfering
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 4, 2019 21:40:28 GMT
Thessia - However, Shepard did fail the mission. The goal was to recover the artifact and Shepard failed to do that. Had the asari revealed the artifact earlier, it's possible Shepard would have retrieved the information without Cerberus interfering Really wished we could have joined in with Jokers joke after that mission. But because BioWare has a stiffy for the Blue Skins, that never happened, sadly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:41:00 GMT
Thessia - However, Shepard did fail the mission. The goal was to recover the artifact and Shepard failed to do that. Had the asari revealed the artifact earlier, it's possible Shepard would have retrieved the information without Cerberus interfering Ah... but it is canon that the Asari did not reveal the artifact sooner. Moot point if there ever was one. Shepard failed the mission and feels guilty for having failed the mission. Not only is Thessia lost (even though the goal of that missions was not to technically save it), but the rest of the galaxy might be lost as well. It's not Thessia that Shepard's upset about... it's that he/she may have lost of whole war by failing to recover that artifact.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 22:07:35 GMT
Ah... but it is canon that the Asari did not reveal the artifact sooner. Your powers of observation proceed you UpUpAgain. Do you have any other talents you wish to share with the forum? A moot observation if ever there was one. Maybe so, but mine wanted to call out the asari councilor for her species not revealing the artifact earlier, but instead says sorry to the alien.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 22:13:20 GMT
Had the asari revealed the artifact earlier, it's possible Shepard would have retrieved the information without Cerberus interfering Really wished we could have joined in with Jokers joke after that mission. But because BioWare has a stiffy for the Blue Skins, that never happened, sadly. Yep. My Shepard wanted to laugh at his joke and tell him a joke as well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 22:14:47 GMT
Ah... but it is canon that the Asari did not reveal the artifact sooner. Your powers of observation proceed you UpUpAgain. Do you have any other talents you wish to share with the forum? A moot observation if ever there was one. Maybe so, but mine wanted to call out the asari councilor for her species not revealing the artifact earlier, but instead says sorry to the alien. Not saying that you have to love everything they put in the game. But your Shepard doesn't override what's written into the game. Clearly, the player was never given any option to obtain knowledge about the artifact earlier in the game. He/she is apologizing for failing the mission... which is a cold hard fact. It's got nothing to do with Bioware not respecting player choices. No choice in that matter was ever given. Shepard failed the mission... and Bioware deemed that all Shepards would feel bad about failing a mission. Shepard is given no choice in accepting the mission either. You can't refuse to attend the meeting with the Alliance Brass at the beginning of the game and bolt out of detention and steal the Normandy to divert the Reaper attack. There are a ton of events in the game for which the player is never given any choices. That's inherently different than Bioware giving choices and then punting those options out of the canon.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 22:17:47 GMT
Was T'soni considered an expert? She says herself in ME1 that she is considered to be barely more than a child and her research isn't being taken very seriously by her own species. Ashley calls her an expert
On the ship she says her real expertise is the study of protheans.
During From Ashes, Shepard will say prothean expert
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 4, 2019 22:18:45 GMT
Really wished we could have joined in with Jokers joke after that mission. But because BioWare has a stiffy for the Blue Skins, that never happened, sadly. Yep. My Shepard wanted to laugh at his joke and tell him a joke as well. There's one: How do the asari recruit their commandos?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 4, 2019 22:21:34 GMT
Had the asari revealed the artifact earlier, it's possible Shepard would have retrieved the information without Cerberus interfering Really wished we could have joined in with Jokers joke after that mission. But because BioWare has a stiffy for the Blue Skins, that never happened, sadly. I wish I could have gotten rid of Joker as my pilot (though I wanted to do that long before this instance of his assholery).
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2019 22:21:48 GMT
Yep. My Shepard wanted to laugh at his joke and tell him a joke as well. There's one: How do the asari recruit their commandos? Here's one. How many asari does it take to fly the destiny? None. Apparently they were all using the stripper poles on the ship instead of flying away from the battle with the council onboard leading to the ship being destroyed.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 4, 2019 22:25:14 GMT
Really wished we could have joined in with Jokers joke after that mission. But because BioWare has a stiffy for the Blue Skins, that never happened, sadly. I wish I could have gotten rid of Joker as my pilot (though I wanted to do that long before this instance of his assholery). I really wished I could have told the Council to shove their Spectre status up their backsides in ME1 & 3. I also wish I could have put a bullet in Liara's skull. But life is full of disappointments.
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