Quickpaw
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Tuldabar
XBL Gamertag: Shadow Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Nov 7, 2019 2:27:05 GMT
Not sure if anyone's still around who worked on Baldur's Gate 2 in 2000 (the first Bioware game to introduce optional romance subplots), so if any regret is had it likely wouldn't be self-directed.
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 7, 2019 4:48:21 GMT
Not sure if anyone's still around who worked on Baldur's Gate 2 in 2000 (the first Bioware game to introduce optional romance subplots), so if any regret is had it likely wouldn't be self-directed. Lukas Kristjanson not only worked on BG2, but on BG1. He was something like BioWare's twentieth employee over all and he's still there.
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 9, 2019 19:20:24 GMT
Of course they do. Imagine feeling obligated to satisfy all of us with romances while trying to make an actual game besides. It must be a nightmare.
I do admire that they never let it stop them from completely wrecking any possible relationship by killing or morphing or sending the PC to another dimension by the end of a given game, though.
"Want blue children, or just more than a scant few weeks in total with the supposed love of your life? Fuck you, you get to ride an exploding space station all the way down from orbit, or rocks fall and crush everyone and you wake up on another continent in DLC, or you're forced to run off and get yourself captured by enemy superpowers between games and aren't heard from for hundreds of years until you return mad and evil, or you transcend to pseudo-godhood and are never seen in a recognizable state again!
And even when you theoretically could have spent years and years with your partner they're still going to show up miserable and lonely in subsequent games with edgy new priorities totally out of line with the future either of you envisioned, with completely insufficient and out-of-character explanations for why you abandoned them, or they you.
That's what you get for being attached to our creations. That's your happy ending. Hope it was worth it. Say thank you. Say fucking thank you."
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Post by Gwydden on Nov 10, 2019 18:57:08 GMT
[...] or rocks fall and crush everyone and you wake up on another continent in DLC [...] I think I get every reference in your post, except that one. What game is it from?
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melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Nov 10, 2019 19:27:40 GMT
[...] or rocks fall and crush everyone and you wake up on another continent in DLC [...] I think I get every reference in your post, except that one. What game is it from? NWN2, not a Bioware game.
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 11, 2019 1:49:09 GMT
I think I get every reference in your post, except that one. What game is it from? NWN2, not a Bioware game. It's not? *checks game cover* Huh. I just always assumed seeing as the first game was. Anyway, good catch.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 11, 2019 1:50:45 GMT
NWN2, not a Bioware game. It's not? *checks game cover* Huh. I just always assumed seeing as the first game was. Anyway, good catch. People do that with KOTOR 2 as well, even though that one was made by Obsidian.
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 11, 2019 2:04:10 GMT
People do that with KOTOR 2 as well, even though that one was made by Obsidian. Yup, just checked that too straight away to avoid making the same mistake again, since that's the game I'm currently playing. Unfortunate, too. I was going to praise them for occasionally leaving romances unfinished and unresolved, leaving what actually feels like authentic flirting and chemistry without all the melodrama and tears and kissing. But clearly they don't deserve credit for that kind of subtlety.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 11, 2019 6:41:21 GMT
Of course they do. Imagine feeling obligated to satisfy all of us with romances while trying to make an actual game besides. It must be a nightmare. I do admire that they never let it stop them from completely wrecking any possible relationship by killing or morphing or sending the PC to another dimension by the end of a given game, though. "Want blue children, or just more than a scant few weeks in total with the supposed love of your life? Fuck you, you get to ride an exploding space station all the way down from orbit, or rocks fall and crush everyone and you wake up on another continent in DLC, or you're forced to run off and get yourself captured by enemy superpowers between games and aren't heard from for hundreds of years until you return mad and evil, or you transcend to pseudo-godhood and are never seen in a recognizable state again! And even when you theoretically could have spent years and years with your partner they're still going to show up miserable and lonely in subsequent games with edgy new priorities totally out of line with the future either of you envisioned, with completely insufficient and out-of-character explanations for why you abandoned them, or they you. That's what you get for being attached to our creations. That's your happy ending. Hope it was worth it. Say thank you. Say fucking thank you." While I agree with what you are saying for those are my thoughts too, but I don't think BioWare regrets that they introduced them. Its more of a regret that they have become this monster they must satisfy otherwise people throw a fit that they aren't there (Anthem) or that their specific type isn't there (every game post Mass Effect 2). If people reacted better (I know who I am kidding, this in the internet in 2019) there might be a different culture around them. I think BioWare would be best off going back to Dragon Age 2 style and then just washing their hands of the situation for I don't think that would get any better of a response then what they would get if they try and save development resources in things like animators and word budget while giving something in the aspect.
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 11, 2019 7:31:47 GMT
While I agree with what you are saying for those are my thoughts too, but I don't think BioWare regrets that they introduced them. Its more of a regret that they have become this monster they must satisfy otherwise people throw a fit that they aren't there (Anthem) or that their specific type isn't there (every game post Mass Effect 2). If people reacted better (I know who I am kidding, this in the internet in 2019) there might be a different culture around them. I think BioWare would be best off going back to Dragon Age 2 style and then just washing their hands of the situation for I don't think that would get any better of a response then what they would get if they try and save development resources in things like animators and word budget while giving something in the aspect. Sounds like we're on entirely the same page. I heard a piece of writing advice once: That nobody gets to dictate how their audience is "supposed" to react to their work, and that if it doesn't come across the way you intended then it's your fault for failing to understand what people wanted from your story. At the time (04-05?) it made a lot of sense to me. These days though, with this chorus of discontent constantly running and people bitterly egging each other's outrage on, completely skewing any sense of perspective, it's obvious why franchise creators are finding it so much harder to read or please their crowds, and that their efforts to do so mostly go unappreciated. But still, the fact that they don't give a shit about people's desire to play house with NPCs they've only known for a few weeks when writing their endings pleases me immensely.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 14, 2019 2:57:33 GMT
Those poor franchise creators. If only someone could teach them to read.
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 14, 2019 3:10:28 GMT
Those poor franchise creators. If only someone could teach them to read. Oh, you shouldn't worry. Nobody doubts that you've gotten your message out.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 14, 2019 3:33:46 GMT
Those poor franchise creators. If only someone could teach them to read. Oh, you shouldn't worry. Nobody doubts that you've gotten your message out. And yet once again, you miss the point. Good thing the failure of creators is the fault of audiences for being too loud and stupid.
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 14, 2019 4:01:02 GMT
And yet once again, you miss the point. Good thing the failure of creators is the fault of audiences for being too loud and stupid. Apparently I'm not alone. Nobody said anything about "the failure of creators"(what a hilariously self-entitled phrase, how dare the monkeys not dance exactly the way you want them to?!) being entirely the audience's fault for being really really obnoxious. I'm just saying I think it's a factor. Of course, I should have remembered how you feel about the concept of shared responsibility before daring to write my comment. Now I'm in for it.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 21, 2019 14:00:24 GMT
It's gotten to the point that I argue for "no more romances" just because I think a clean cut has to made in order to show that while a good romance can enrich a story, it shouldn't take up this much mental space in people's perception unless the story is actually about romance. And Bioware's stories, as a rule, aren't. Also, it would be fair, wouldn't it . Don't like that your preferences aren't catered to? Well, neither are mine.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 21, 2019 21:16:30 GMT
I sure hope they don't regret it. It's a really fun option to supplement the murder part of the game. I mean, I'm playing a character that kills dozens if not hundreds of people. Be nice if there's a different kind of action I can make them partake in XD
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revelationeffect
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Post by revelationeffect on Nov 22, 2019 22:44:06 GMT
At the very least it seems to me from everything people on the DA team have said that they don’t regret it. Also in regards to their attempts at diverse representation that they don’t feel particularly forced into it but rather that people on the creative team want to do that themselves, and have gone out of their way to do so. In some cases presumably because it’s personal, e.g. David Gaider writing gay characters. As to the current team I know at the very least that Patrick Weekes is openly pan and there are quite possibly others. So seems to me they’re doing what they want to, and making an effort to live up to the reputation as a progressive developer they’ve accrued, and that sounds good to me.
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Post by river82 on Nov 23, 2019 0:26:02 GMT
Well David Gaider is including romances in his new game (Chorus) being crowdfunded by his new startup company in which he got to decide what he wanted to create - so I'd say he doesn't regret romances. Apparently they're even intending to have them be more connected with the main story. It looks to be more a visual novel than an adventure. Adventure games tend to have exploration gameplay which I haven't seen yet in any of the previews (doesn't mean the game doesn't have it). And most visual novels tend to have romance somewhere in the game, if not a key component of their game Anyway I doubt Bioware regret adding romance to their games. The inclusion of romance opened their games to a bigger audience which probably resulted in more sales so *shrugs*
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Post by kotoreffect3 on May 13, 2020 5:23:50 GMT
To me they are an afterthought. They can add interesting context and even character development to whoever is being romanced and personalize the protagonist a little bit more but at the end of the day it is not why I play these games. Often I have playthroughs where I don't pursue a romance because none of the options make sense for my character in that particular playthrough and I don't feel like I am missing anything by not bothering with them. I do feel there are portions of the community that makes way too big of a deal out of them. For me it probably doesn't even make the top 20 list of things that matter to me in the game.
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Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 13, 2020 13:58:29 GMT
Some of them must be concerned about the attitudes some people have taken to the romance mechanics. To a few folk It's almost as if nothing else mattered about the game... except the romances
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thebobzilla84
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Post by thebobzilla84 on May 13, 2020 14:25:32 GMT
Honestly my only real issue with Bioware and their Romances is that they add certain character's that are just overall more interesting and they surpass the actual LIs completely Aveline and Kasumi Goto are great examples. Hawke/Aveline & Shepard/Kasumi are still two of the biggest missed opportunities ever and it still hurts to this day tbh and if they would have been proper LI's I would have played DA2 & ME2 a whole lot more.
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Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 14, 2020 1:10:43 GMT
Honestly my only real issue with Bioware and their Romances is that they add certain character's that are just overall more interesting and they surpass the actual LIs completely Aveline and Kasumi Goto are great examples. Hawke/Aveline & Shepard/Kasumi are still two of the biggest missed opportunities ever and it still hurts to this day tbh and if they would have been proper LI's I would have played DA2 & ME2 a whole lot more. Aveline and Hawke's relationship in DA2 made a bit of sense though, as she was Hawke's protector, her affection was different than Isabela, for example. Shepard and Kasumi is just... strange
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Post by Sartoz on May 14, 2020 12:15:08 GMT
Honestly my only real issue with Bioware and their Romances is that they add certain character's that are just overall more interesting and they surpass the actual LIs completely Aveline and Kasumi Goto are great examples. Hawke/Aveline & Shepard/Kasumi are still two of the biggest missed opportunities ever and it still hurts to this day tbh and if they would have been proper LI's I would have played DA2 & ME2 a whole lot more. Aveline and Hawke's relationship in DA2 made a bit of sense though, as she was Hawke's protector, her affection was different than Isabela, for example. Shepard and Kasumi is just... strange
LOL,
Personally, I was hoping for more. She is mysterious and capable. A romance between them is in the realm of possibility. Maybe Kasumi will be resurrected in MEx.
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Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 14, 2020 13:41:12 GMT
Aveline and Hawke's relationship in DA2 made a bit of sense though, as she was Hawke's protector, her affection was different than Isabela, for example. Shepard and Kasumi is just... strange
LOL,
Personally, I was hoping for more. She is mysterious and capable. A romance between them is in the realm of possibility. Maybe Kasumi will be resurrected in MEx.
Resurrected ? She didn't die as far as I know.
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Post by Sartoz on May 14, 2020 13:53:52 GMT
LOL,
Personally, I was hoping for more. She is mysterious and capable. A romance between them is in the realm of possibility. Maybe Kasumi will be resurrected in MEx.
Resurrected ? She didn't die as far as I know.
OK, used as a character in a future ME, if u prefer.
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