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Post by Blaze on Sept 16, 2019 14:14:20 GMT
the subject came about in a different thread, but i thought it might be warranted it's own thread for discussion.
so, do you like to add the option of a day/night cycle in the next dragon age game? would you prefer a toggle, like in dragon age 2? maybe none of that?
personally, i don't want a cycle, in many cases it's pointless, sure on paper it adds to the RP and immersion, in practice, in most games it just doesn't fit (yes, it worked red dead redemption, but the pacing there is different than dragon age). to give an example for an open world game in which the day/night cycle is pointless: skyrim. you traveling to a city, you want to get rid of your junk, which is already a burden in the game since merchant have (very) limited money to pay for your stuff; but since it's night you can't. sure, there's a "wait" function, but then, what's the point of the cycle if you just wait it out?
that's being said, i would like a toggle like in dragon age 2, because there's still different things that can happen at night that you want to explore; the city looks differnt, different patrons in the tavern, shady dealings, breaking into places and other things i didn't bother/couldn't think about. it makes sense that certain missions/quests, can only be done at night and i would like control over what i do and when.
so what's are your thoughts in the matter? discuss away! =D
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 16, 2019 14:19:14 GMT
I don't have a strong opinion either way. It's nice to see environments change - rain, storms, day/night - but it's also not something I really miss if it's not there.
If the devs are inclined to include it and they have the resources to do so? Sure, why not. But if it's too much of a PITA or takes significant time/resources away that could've been devoted the story and characters (looking at you, suspiciously empty open world wilderness.....) I don't care for it.
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correctamundo
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 16, 2019 14:52:17 GMT
I find that dynamic day/night cycles generally move to fast in games. Not a big thing for me personally. But anyway Crestwood style i cool, Kirkwall style is cool and Skyrim style is cool for me.
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Post by cypherj on Sept 16, 2019 14:54:47 GMT
I never get the whole, I can't sell my stuff or do some quest because it's not the right time of day argument. I the single player games I've played with a day/night cycle there is always a way to camp or go to an inn. It's night and you need a merchant, sleep at the inn until morning. You need to kill a monster that only comes out at night. Sleep in the in, or camp until nighttime.
As far as the question, it adds a lot to games for me. Living worlds just help with immersion. If other things like story, characters, etc are close/equal, this is something that would set one game apart from another if I'm thinking of my GOTY or favorite games ever. I'm always for adding more to a game, it doesn't hurt anything, but adds a lot.
I remember in Dragon's Dogma, there were monsters that only came out at night. But to travel at night you had to make sure you not only had a lantern, but oil to keep the lantern lit for however far you had to go. Even with those you're vision was limited, and that added more to the combat when you couldn't see all the enemies, only what was in the light of your lantern.
There were times in the Witcher where I stopped what I was doing to climb up on a hill and find a spot to watch a sunset. When it got dark in the Witcher, the city just didn't come to light automatically. Guards picked up torches and walked around the city lighting all the other torches. The first time I saw it, I was like man, the care they put into this game to create this level of realism is amazing.
Obviously things like story are more important. But good story and living world just makes for a great game.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 16, 2019 16:40:55 GMT
I never get the whole, I can't sell my stuff or do some quest because it's not the right time of day argument. I the single player games I've played with a day/night cycle there is always a way to camp or go to an inn. It's night and you need a merchant, sleep at the inn until morning. You need to kill a monster that only comes out at night. Sleep in the in, or camp until nighttime. As far as the question, it adds a lot to games for me. Living worlds just help with immersion. If other things like story, characters, etc are close/equal, this is something that would set one game apart from another if I'm thinking of my GOTY or favorite games ever. I'm always for adding more to a game, it doesn't hurt anything, but adds a lot. I remember in Dragon's Dogma, there were monsters that only came out at night. But to travel at night you had to make sure you not only had a lantern, but oil to keep the lantern lit for however far you had to go. Even with those you're vision was limited, and that added more to the combat when you couldn't see all the enemies, only what was in the light of your lantern. There were times in the Witcher where I stopped what I was doing to climb up on a hill and find a spot to watch a sunset. When it got dark in the Witcher, the city just didn't come to light automatically. Guards picked up torches and walked around the city lighting all the other torches. The first time I saw it, I was like man, the care they put into this game to create this level of realism is amazing. Obviously things like story are more important. But good story and living world just makes for a great game. I think this hits pretty much all the same bullet points for me. I especially like the change in tone in exploration with Day/Night cycles. If I had a wish, it would be for the addition of seasonal changes as well. Especially for games like Dragon Age which can span a number of years.
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Post by Blaze on Sept 16, 2019 16:58:55 GMT
I never get the whole, I can't sell my stuff or do some quest because it's not the right time of day argument. I the single player games I've played with a day/night cycle there is always a way to camp or go to an inn. It's night and you need a merchant, sleep at the inn until morning. You need to kill a monster that only comes out at night. Sleep in the in, or camp until nighttime. As far as the question, it adds a lot to games for me. Living worlds just help with immersion. If other things like story, characters, etc are close/equal, this is something that would set one game apart from another if I'm thinking of my GOTY or favorite games ever. I'm always for adding more to a game, it doesn't hurt anything, but adds a lot. I remember in Dragon's Dogma, there were monsters that only came out at night. But to travel at night you had to make sure you not only had a lantern, but oil to keep the lantern lit for however far you had to go. Even with those you're vision was limited, and that added more to the combat when you couldn't see all the enemies, only what was in the light of your lantern. There were times in the Witcher where I stopped what I was doing to climb up on a hill and find a spot to watch a sunset. When it got dark in the Witcher, the city just didn't come to light automatically. Guards picked up torches and walked around the city lighting all the other torches. The first time I saw it, I was like man, the care they put into this game to create this level of realism is amazing. Obviously things like story are more important. But good story and living world just makes for a great game. I think this hits pretty much all the same bullet points for me. I especially like the change in tone in exploration with Day/Night cycles. If I had a wish, it would be for the addition of seasonal changes as well. Especially for games like Dragon Age which can span a number of years. in term of season change, i do want a season change, though i'd prefer not a cycle but rather the season to change as the story progress. like, act 1 starts in the fall and act 2 is in the winter and there's snow and stuff (return to ostagar happening during winter was a good start, but i think they can do better) =D i think season change cycle works better for an MMO, rather then single player game. for some games a cycle works, but for dragon age, in which the number of years/month passed is fixed for the story, it will be a bit wierd if there are like 4 winters in 1 year or something of the sort
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Post by cypherj on Sept 16, 2019 17:16:58 GMT
I never get the whole, I can't sell my stuff or do some quest because it's not the right time of day argument. I the single player games I've played with a day/night cycle there is always a way to camp or go to an inn. It's night and you need a merchant, sleep at the inn until morning. You need to kill a monster that only comes out at night. Sleep in the in, or camp until nighttime. As far as the question, it adds a lot to games for me. Living worlds just help with immersion. If other things like story, characters, etc are close/equal, this is something that would set one game apart from another if I'm thinking of my GOTY or favorite games ever. I'm always for adding more to a game, it doesn't hurt anything, but adds a lot. I remember in Dragon's Dogma, there were monsters that only came out at night. But to travel at night you had to make sure you not only had a lantern, but oil to keep the lantern lit for however far you had to go. Even with those you're vision was limited, and that added more to the combat when you couldn't see all the enemies, only what was in the light of your lantern. There were times in the Witcher where I stopped what I was doing to climb up on a hill and find a spot to watch a sunset. When it got dark in the Witcher, the city just didn't come to light automatically. Guards picked up torches and walked around the city lighting all the other torches. The first time I saw it, I was like man, the care they put into this game to create this level of realism is amazing. Obviously things like story are more important. But good story and living world just makes for a great game. I think this hits pretty much all the same bullet points for me. I especially like the change in tone in exploration with Day/Night cycles. If I had a wish, it would be for the addition of seasonal changes as well. Especially for games like Dragon Age which can span a number of years. Seasonal change would have been perfect for DA2. One of my main issues with Kirkwall, aside from it being a ghost town was the fact that is was pretty much static for the entire 10 years of the story. Season changes in the city and surrounding areas when they did the time skips would have added a lot.
I think it would be hard to implement this on a rotational basis in real time though. Having said that, it would be awesome to see leaves change color on trees and fall off, causing trails and fields to be littered with them. Then snow, before the leaves start growing back. That would be incredible to see while adventuring.
They added snow to Final Fantasy XIV, and it required maintenance, and then again when they removed it. That's why I think it would be hard to have this change in real time.
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 16, 2019 17:30:16 GMT
In games with day/night cycles, I always just wait until daylight to do anything. It gets a bit tedious so I'd rather not have the cycles.
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Blaze
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Post by Blaze on Sept 16, 2019 17:31:03 GMT
In games with day/night cycles, I always just wait until daylight to do anything. It gets a bit tedious so I'd rather not have the cycles. what about toggle? =D
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 16, 2019 17:53:40 GMT
I think this hits pretty much all the same bullet points for me. I especially like the change in tone in exploration with Day/Night cycles. If I had a wish, it would be for the addition of seasonal changes as well. Especially for games like Dragon Age which can span a number of years. in term of season change, i do want a season change, though i'd prefer not a cycle but rather the season to change as the story progress. like, act 1 starts in the fall and act 2 is in the winter and there's snow and stuff (return to ostagar happening during winter was a good start, but i think they can do better) =D i think season change cycle works better for an MMO, rather then single player game. for some games a cycle works, but for dragon age, in which the number of years/month passed is fixed for the story, it will be a bit wierd if there are like 4 winters in 1 year or something of the sort I agree there should be some semi-logical way to track seasons (whether through the storyline or by some time-tracking method). I like the idea of seasonal changes for DA because we tend to return to the same areas a number of times over the course of the game, and seasonal changes are a great way to emphasize the changes to the area over time. It gives players that additional motivation to return to a region to see what it's like in the fall... winter... etc. And you can structure quests based on those seasons.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 16, 2019 18:01:28 GMT
I think this hits pretty much all the same bullet points for me. I especially like the change in tone in exploration with Day/Night cycles. If I had a wish, it would be for the addition of seasonal changes as well. Especially for games like Dragon Age which can span a number of years. Seasonal change would have been perfect for DA2. One of my main issues with Kirkwall, aside from it being a ghost town was the fact that is was pretty much static for the entire 10 years of the story. Season changes in the city and surrounding areas when they did the time skips would have added a lot.
I think it would be hard to implement this on a rotational basis in real time though. Having said that, it would be awesome to see leaves change color on trees and fall off, causing trails and fields to be littered with them. Then snow, before the leaves start growing back. That would be incredible to see while adventuring.
They added snow to Final Fantasy XIV, and it required maintenance, and then again when they removed it. That's why I think it would be hard to have this change in real time.
Well BioWare has been playing with "changing seasons" tech (with accumulating snow), even as far back as 2014. I suspect this would be quite doable now, especially with DA4 landing on next gen.
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Blaze
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Post by Blaze on Sept 16, 2019 18:26:28 GMT
I like the idea of seasonal changes for DA because we tend to return to the same areas a number of times over the course of the game, and seasonal changes are a great way to emphasize the changes to the area over time. It gives players that additional motivation to return to a region to see what it's like in the fall... winter... etc. And you can structure quests based on those seasons. excatly! and return to ostagar shows how great an area you visited before would look in a new atmosphere =D
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Post by wickedcool on Sept 16, 2019 18:55:01 GMT
Day night would be great for resting in camp to pass time during war table missions
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Post by colfoley on Sept 16, 2019 19:53:49 GMT
Day night cycles really add to the immersion for me...so yes.
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Post by phoray on Sept 16, 2019 19:58:24 GMT
hmmm.
I mean, I appreciate a day night cycle only for the Sunsets and sunrises. but I'm fine with none, and may even like DA2's toggle better.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 16, 2019 20:16:53 GMT
I personally prefer the cycle (and like others, would love to see a seasonal cycle as well, but that's way down the list of priorities). That said, I'm not actually opposed to the toggle and since DAO -particularly - and DAI are among my favourite games ever, clearly I don't have a problem with fixed time(s) of day for a zone.
But if I got to choose and - all other things being equal - my choice would be for cycle. But it definitely needs to last longer than TW3. Odyssey was...about right.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 16, 2019 21:04:07 GMT
In games with day/night cycles, I always just wait until daylight to do anything. It gets a bit tedious so I'd rather not have the cycles. what about toggle? =D That seemed a bit better in DA2 I guess.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 16, 2019 22:20:36 GMT
Actually when you get down to it if we maintain a spy story for DA 4 I would like to see things like day/ night cycles have a pro/ con effect on your gameplay. Do it during the day you risk more people seeing you but that could mean fewer guards or more opportunities to do the quest since more people are awake. Things like that.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 16, 2019 23:57:38 GMT
Actually when you get down to it if we maintain a spy story for DA 4 I would like to see things like day/ night cycles have a pro/ con effect on your gameplay. Do it during the day you risk more people seeing you but that could mean fewer guards or more opportunities to do the quest since more people are awake. Things like that. In that case it would be cool to have little bonuses... since elves and dwarves canonically have better night vision than humans. Dunno about qunari. Could be a points-based thing (sort of like the Winter Palace with your race/class, only it's a biological determination rather than a social one), or like how Sera and Lavellan were able to see ~shiny magic stuff~ in the Crossroads in Trespasser.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 17, 2019 0:34:21 GMT
Actually when you get down to it if we maintain a spy story for DA 4 I would like to see things like day/ night cycles have a pro/ con effect on your gameplay. Do it during the day you risk more people seeing you but that could mean fewer guards or more opportunities to do the quest since more people are awake. Things like that. In that case it would be cool to have little bonuses... since elves and dwarves canonically have better night vision than humans. Dunno about qunari. Could be a points-based thing (sort of like the Winter Palace with your race/class, only it's a biological determination rather than a social one), or like how Sera and Lavellan were able to see ~shiny magic stuff~ in the Crossroads in Trespasser. I like it. Depending on your race you can have extra dialogue options night or day, extra attribute points, or if you have an Elf in the party maybe they can pick out targets for you.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 17, 2019 2:50:15 GMT
It's possible to have both, and has been for years.
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Post by helios969 on Sept 17, 2019 9:04:46 GMT
Assuming they create a good RPG with strong story, characters, and gameplay then yes, D/N cycle is desirable. However if those other things are lacking then D/N is just gimmicky.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 17, 2019 23:37:12 GMT
I don't mind so much whether they go with a day/night cycle, a day/night toggle, or just set the time for each zone. I guess they should just go with whatever they think works best with their story structure.
But i would like to see more weather. I've always found the addition of weather to be really great for immersion. And that seasons changing when you hit certain milestones in the story idea sounds fantastic.
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Post by LogicGunn on Sept 20, 2019 8:15:26 GMT
I like how it is done in Skyrim, where people live their lives by a realistic day/night cycle, but what I don't like are quests etc arbitrarily gated by the time of day for no reason and having to "wait" or like in DA2 where you had to go to the map and toggle the time of day - some of the quests made sense, but for others I think it was just for the sake of using the feature.
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Post by biggydx on Sept 21, 2019 4:02:41 GMT
A day and night cycle should be standard in any semi-open or open world RPG by this point. I remember playing Saints Row back in the day, and people complained about there not being day and night cycles in SR4. Volition technically had it in the game, but it was more of a debug option because - once you beat the story - you could chose what time of day it was in the open world.
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