scifiguy53425
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Post by scifiguy53425 on Oct 12, 2019 8:16:21 GMT
How do you think character interactions should work in future games? Should there be more diverse dialogue options in conversation or has the current system got it right? Do characters' opinions of the player character have enough of an effect on their interactions? Should there be a more blatant approval system similar to Dragon Age: Origins? If there are to be various factions or even alien languages, should there be some game mechanic directly related to these things?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2019 10:38:28 GMT
I think the dialogue system in ME:A is OK, what is needed is for the writers to use it in such a way to allow the player to develop a wider range of PC personalities than we were given in ME:A.
I think they should ditch the open-world idea and make the NPCs AND the environments far more reactive to what the player has done in the game. A more linear design would make the programming of that much easier for Bioware. We need to SEE big changes on each planet after the vaults were activated. We needed to be allowed to make choices in what sort of outposts we could set up throughout the entire game (not just the one military vs. scientific decision we were given. Banter should have reflected the progress made in the game (not just the progress of Ryder's relationship with PeeBee) and be made to reliably trigger statements that were in context and in mood with what the player was actually doing.
I can't comment on DAO since I didn't get very far in playing it.
I'm pretty meh about the alien languages thing. I'm OK with just imagining that a different language is being spoken and translated while all the characters are speaking english (or whatever language the player is using in the game). I got used to it with the early shows. At my age, my eyes strain to read text at the best of times... so I'd just as soon avoid subtitles translated jibberish being spoken by the VA.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 12, 2019 16:25:00 GMT
I think the dialogue system in ME:A is OK, what is needed is for the writers to use it in such a way to allow the player to develop a winder range of PC personalities than we were given in ME:A. I think they should ditch the open-world idea and make the NPCs AND the environments far more reactive to what the player has done in the game. A more linear design would make the programming of that much easier for Bioware. We need to SEE big changes on each planet after the vaults were activated. We needed to be allowed to make choices in what sort of outposts we could set up throughout the entire game (not just the one military vs. scientific decision we were given. Banter should have reflected the progress made in the game (not just the progress of Ryder's relationship with PeeBee) and be made to reliably trigger statements that were in context and in mood with what the player was actually doing. I can't comment on DAO since I didn't get very far in playing it. I'm pretty meh about the alien languages thing. I'm OK with just imagining that a different language is being spoken and translated while all the characters are speaking english (or whatever language the player is using in the game). I got used to it with the early shows. At my age, my eyes strain to read text at the best of times... so I'd just as soon avoid subtitles translated jibberish being spoken by the VA. I agree except for the open world thing. I like that in my games.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Oct 12, 2019 16:26:13 GMT
How do you think character interactions should work in future games? Should there be more diverse dialogue options in conversation or has the current system got it right? Do characters' opinions of the player character have enough of an effect on their interactions? Should there be a more blatant approval system similar to Dragon Age: Origins? If there are to be various factions or even alien languages, should there be some game mechanic directly related to these things?
The loss of the paragon and renegade system was necessary since towards the end of ME3 it basically meant more or less good and evil, light and dark, nice and mean, diplomat and fascist or whatever you want to call your binary morality system that if you played mostly as a paragon and yet you punched that quarian admiral after he nearly killed Shepard, Tali, and Legion and destroyed the geth dreadnought (which if you get the geth to side with Shepard in the war you need every single dreadnought in the galaxy to help fight the Reapers and this guy costs you a major resource), in the gut and you get renegade points that you don't want and/or can't use so it was kind of refreshing to have Ryder decide when they first meet the Kett to shoot the bastards on sight or try a diplomatic approach and not be rewarded or punished by doing what the player wants to do. I think BioWare needs to more of that in DA4 and MEA2.
The problem with the approval system of the companions in DA:O is that, to me at least, it felt like I was bribing them for the friendships and romance. Also once you found out what they liked disliked and/or hated it became even easier and then when you throw in the Feastday Gifts and Pranks DLC it became a joke! If I seriously screwed up my Warden's attempted romance with say Leliana I would just give her Feastday gift and then she's ready to jump into bed with my Warden or if I had accidentally started a romance with her and wanted to romance someone just give Leliana her Feastday prank and she'll not like you.
I generally think the approval system of DA2 was vastly superior to DA:O although in some situations where I supposed to be a leader of a group of warriors/rogues/misfits/oddballs/outcasts or whatever you want to call them, I tend to get to a point where I don't care what the companions, (other than the LIs that my character is interested in and/or available to my PC), think of me as long as do what they're told in battle.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2019 16:32:37 GMT
I think the dialogue system in ME:A is OK, what is needed is for the writers to use it in such a way to allow the player to develop a winder range of PC personalities than we were given in ME:A. I think they should ditch the open-world idea and make the NPCs AND the environments far more reactive to what the player has done in the game. A more linear design would make the programming of that much easier for Bioware. We need to SEE big changes on each planet after the vaults were activated. We needed to be allowed to make choices in what sort of outposts we could set up throughout the entire game (not just the one military vs. scientific decision we were given. Banter should have reflected the progress made in the game (not just the progress of Ryder's relationship with PeeBee) and be made to reliably trigger statements that were in context and in mood with what the player was actually doing. I can't comment on DAO since I didn't get very far in playing it. I'm pretty meh about the alien languages thing. I'm OK with just imagining that a different language is being spoken and translated while all the characters are speaking english (or whatever language the player is using in the game). I got used to it with the early shows. At my age, my eyes strain to read text at the best of times... so I'd just as soon avoid subtitles translated jibberish being spoken by the VA. I agree except for the open world thing. I like that in my games. The price, I think, is that it tends to impede the "reactiveness" of things. At least with Bioware in ME:A, they didn't want to change the landscape visibly after vault activation to avoid interfering with quests that could be done before or after activation of the vault. I would have loved to see visible signs of ice melting on Voeld, for example or rain falling on Elaaden... but then the quests would have to be set up to react to those differences depending on when they were done. Some dialogue did change (e.g. Krogan talking about the chance that it might rain on Elaaden only after vaulta activation), but there certainly was a lot more that could have been done... but if they had done it within the confines the game we had... well, it already was a huge game to download/install and it already takes a fairly long time to load at the start, etc. They'd have to find a lot of different ways to compress the size of the content to make an open-world game as reactive as I'd like to see them me.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 12, 2019 16:51:01 GMT
I agree except for the open world thing. I like that in my games. The price, I think, is that it tends to impede the "reactiveness" of things. At least with Bioware in ME:A, they didn't want to change the landscape visibly after vault activation to avoid interfering with quests that could be done before or after activation of the vault. I would have loved to see visible signs of ice melting on Voeld, for example or rain falling on Elaaden... but then the quests would have to be set up to react to those differences depending on when they were done. Some dialogue did change (e.g. Krogan talking about the chance that it might rain on Elaaden only after vaulta activation), but there certainly was a lot more that could have been done... but if they had done it within the confines the game we had... well, it already was a huge game to download/install and it already takes a fairly long time to load at the start, etc. They'd have to find a lot of different ways to compress the size of the content to make an open-world game as reactive as I'd like to see them me. Yeah I see that. I would have too but it was still ok for me.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Oct 12, 2019 19:42:51 GMT
The price, I think, is that it tends to impede the "reactiveness" of things. At least with Bioware in ME:A, they didn't want to change the landscape visibly after vault activation to avoid interfering with quests that could be done before or after activation of the vault. I would have loved to see visible signs of ice melting on Voeld, for example or rain falling on Elaaden... but then the quests would have to be set up to react to those differences depending on when they were done. Some dialogue did change (e.g. Krogan talking about the chance that it might rain on Elaaden only after vaulta activation), but there certainly was a lot more that could have been done... but if they had done it within the confines the game we had... well, it already was a huge game to download/install and it already takes a fairly long time to load at the start, etc. They'd have to find a lot of different ways to compress the size of the content to make an open-world game as reactive as I'd like to see them me. Yeah I see that. I would have too but it was still ok for me.
There were changes to the planets once the vaults were online, but they were stuff like Ryder not dying because of the heat, cold, radiation and Ryder could walk and/or drive through water and that was it though.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 12, 2019 20:26:27 GMT
Yeah I see that. I would have too but it was still ok for me.
There were changes to the planets once the vaults were online, but they were stuff like Ryder not dying because of the heat, cold, radiation and Ryder could walk and/or drive through water and that was it though.
Yeah a few different visuals would have been nice but I'll take what I can get.
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Post by natetrace on Oct 12, 2019 22:05:48 GMT
I liked how it was done in Deus Ex. You could upgrade Adam and he could read people better and pursue additional dialogue. Maybe our next character could get an implant like that. Maybe a few timed options, like an interrupt but just a timer for dialogue. I wouldn't do that for most conversations though.
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scifiguy53425
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Post by scifiguy53425 on Oct 13, 2019 14:10:49 GMT
I think the dialogue system in ME:A is OK, what is needed is for the writers to use it in such a way to allow the player to develop a wider range of PC personalities than we were given in ME:A.
I think they should ditch the open-world idea and make the NPCs AND the environments far more reactive to what the player has done in the game. A more linear design would make the programming of that much easier for Bioware. We need to SEE big changes on each planet after the vaults were activated. We needed to be allowed to make choices in what sort of outposts we could set up throughout the entire game (not just the one military vs. scientific decision we were given. Banter should have reflected the progress made in the game (not just the progress of Ryder's relationship with PeeBee) and be made to reliably trigger statements that were in context and in mood with what the player was actually doing. I can't comment on DAO since I didn't get very far in playing it. I'm pretty meh about the alien languages thing. I'm OK with just imagining that a different language is being spoken and translated while all the characters are speaking english (or whatever language the player is using in the game). I got used to it with the early shows. At my age, my eyes strain to read text at the best of times... so I'd just as soon avoid subtitles translated jibberish being spoken by the VA. I think I agree. Are you saying that you want there to be more varied personality dialogue options beyond the logical, funny, etc., more refined ones to make them more distinct from each other or both? Personally, I think the system itself is great, I just think it should be utilized more efficiently. I'd definitely choose a more reactive game world over an open world. Open worlds in games recently have all been quite bland for me, its just become a bit of a buzz word in my opinion. Also, I sort of suggested alien languages not really having much of an idea of how it would be implemented. I just thought that there could be some kind of percentage score that would increase the more you interact with a certain alien species and culture and that some benefit could be gained by the player, same with factions, I don't know what though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 14:27:21 GMT
I think the dialogue system in ME:A is OK, what is needed is for the writers to use it in such a way to allow the player to develop a wider range of PC personalities than we were given in ME:A.
I think they should ditch the open-world idea and make the NPCs AND the environments far more reactive to what the player has done in the game. A more linear design would make the programming of that much easier for Bioware. We need to SEE big changes on each planet after the vaults were activated. We needed to be allowed to make choices in what sort of outposts we could set up throughout the entire game (not just the one military vs. scientific decision we were given. Banter should have reflected the progress made in the game (not just the progress of Ryder's relationship with PeeBee) and be made to reliably trigger statements that were in context and in mood with what the player was actually doing. I can't comment on DAO since I didn't get very far in playing it. I'm pretty meh about the alien languages thing. I'm OK with just imagining that a different language is being spoken and translated while all the characters are speaking english (or whatever language the player is using in the game). I got used to it with the early shows. At my age, my eyes strain to read text at the best of times... so I'd just as soon avoid subtitles translated jibberish being spoken by the VA. I think I agree. Are you saying that you want there to be more varied personality dialogue options beyond the logical, funny, etc., more refined ones to make them more distinct from each other or both? Personally, I think the system itself is great, I just think it should be utilized more efficiently. I'd definitely choose a more reactive game world over an open world. Open worlds in games recently have all been quite bland for me, its just become a bit of a buzz word in my opinion. Also, I sort of suggested alien languages not really having much of an idea of how it would be implemented. I just thought that there could be some kind of percentage score that would increase the more you interact with a certain alien species and culture and that some benefit could be gained by the player, same with factions, I don't know what though. Exactly what I'm saying. Interesting idea you have about a language skill.... might be worth some more thought.
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Post by scifiguy53425 on Oct 13, 2019 14:35:55 GMT
How do you think character interactions should work in future games? Should there be more diverse dialogue options in conversation or has the current system got it right? Do characters' opinions of the player character have enough of an effect on their interactions? Should there be a more blatant approval system similar to Dragon Age: Origins? If there are to be various factions or even alien languages, should there be some game mechanic directly related to these things?
The loss of the paragon and renegade system was necessary since towards the end of ME3 it basically meant more or less good and evil, light and dark, nice and mean, diplomat and fascist or whatever you want to call your binary morality system that if you played mostly as a paragon and yet you punched that quarian admiral after he nearly killed Shepard, Tali, and Legion and destroyed the geth dreadnought (which if you get the geth to side with Shepard in the war you need every single dreadnought in the galaxy to help fight the Reapers and this guy costs you a major resource), in the gut and you get renegade points that you don't want and/or can't use so it was kind of refreshing to have Ryder decide when they first meet the Kett to shoot the bastards on sight or try a diplomatic approach and not be rewarded or punished by doing what the player wants to do. I think BioWare needs to more of that in DA4 and MEA2.
The problem with the approval system of the companions in DA:O is that, to me at least, it felt like I was bribing them for the friendships and romance. Also once you found out what they liked disliked and/or hated it became even easier and then when you throw in the Feastday Gifts and Pranks DLC it became a joke! If I seriously screwed up my Warden's attempted romance with say Leliana I would just give her Feastday gift and then she's ready to jump into bed with my Warden or if I had accidentally started a romance with her and wanted to romance someone just give Leliana her Feastday prank and she'll not like you. I think the paragade system works in certain contexts, I think it worked in the trilogy, but I agree that it was necessary for the direction that they went in and I prefer the current system overall. I didn't really like that specific example of the Kett at the beginning of the game, but I do like having a few decisions in the game not have immediate consequences. It helps add context to the character that I'm playing in my own mind, shooting the Kett or not shooting the Kett just didn't have that much weight for me. I'd still like the Rachni decision in the first game if there were no point system, for example. No immediate major consequence, but any potential consequence is hidden from the player for the time being. I like the Origins relationship system but I 100% agree that it could begin to feel like bribery and exploitation. It was. I just think the basic system was good and I liked having the bars to keep track of things with each character.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 21:32:12 GMT
The loss of the paragon and renegade system was necessary since towards the end of ME3 it basically meant more or less good and evil, light and dark, nice and mean, diplomat and fascist or whatever you want to call your binary morality system that if you played mostly as a paragon and yet you punched that quarian admiral after he nearly killed Shepard, Tali, and Legion and destroyed the geth dreadnought (which if you get the geth to side with Shepard in the war you need every single dreadnought in the galaxy to help fight the Reapers and this guy costs you a major resource), in the gut and you get renegade points that you don't want and/or can't use so it was kind of refreshing to have Ryder decide when they first meet the Kett to shoot the bastards on sight or try a diplomatic approach and not be rewarded or punished by doing what the player wants to do. I think BioWare needs to more of that in DA4 and MEA2.
The problem with the approval system of the companions in DA:O is that, to me at least, it felt like I was bribing them for the friendships and romance. Also once you found out what they liked disliked and/or hated it became even easier and then when you throw in the Feastday Gifts and Pranks DLC it became a joke! If I seriously screwed up my Warden's attempted romance with say Leliana I would just give her Feastday gift and then she's ready to jump into bed with my Warden or if I had accidentally started a romance with her and wanted to romance someone just give Leliana her Feastday prank and she'll not like you. I think the paragade system works in certain contexts, I think it worked in the trilogy, but I agree that it was necessary for the direction that they went in and I prefer the current system overall. I didn't really like that specific example of the Kett at the beginning of the game, but I do like having a few decisions in the game not have immediate consequences. It helps add context to the character that I'm playing in my own mind, shooting the Kett or not shooting the Kett just didn't have that much weight for me. I'd still like the Rachni decision in the first game if there were no point system, for example. No immediate major consequence, but any potential consequence is hidden from the player for the time being. I like the Origins relationship system but I 100% agree that it could begin to feel like bribery and exploitation. It was. I just think the basic system was good and I liked having the bars to keep track of things with each character. I think one way a sort of "how am I doing with so and so on the team" feedback in Andromeda could have been provided through the dialogues with Lexi... all she needs were several more different updates should could give verbally if asked about crew morale and/or more textual updates to Ryder's psych profile as the game progressed. That way, it would have provided feedback without feeling like the player was juggling the numbers to bribe or exploit the system in order to get a certain reaction out of the NPC. If Lexi, for example, could have said that, say, "PeeBee seems upset with you having shot Kalinda, maybe you should talk with her or do something to smooth waters..." Then later on, she could have maybe said something line "PeeBee seems to be getting over Kalinda's death. I think talking with you has helped...." or "Whatever you've been saying to PeeBee about Kalinda is only making her angrier." ...Things along those lines.
I thought having a psych profile and that "crew morale" section of dialogue with Lexi was very promising at the start... It just didn't follow through as much as I had hoped. Lexi really only had 2 or 3 lines for each squadmate. She needed more lines so her analyses could be more reactive to what was happening in the game.
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