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Post by alanc9 on Nov 9, 2019 6:08:48 GMT
That seems like a pretty stupid way to do something when they could simply order it.
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Post by githcheater on Nov 9, 2019 19:05:55 GMT
How would that have worked?
- ME3 required playing multiplayer to get the ending where Shepard survived, as multiplayer was needed to get a high EMS number where EMS is calculated by multiplying War Assets times the Readiness rating.
- The game's red-blue-green finale was allegedly written by two managers without any input from the rest of the team, and many protests from the other writers were ultimately ignored. Allegedly, these two managers decided that they did not need to be peer reviewed (for "whatever" reason).
I wonder if these two Bioware managers were encouraged ORDERED to ignore peer review by EA to create an ending sequence that required multiplayer live service to get the "best ending"?
There ... I changed encouraged to ORDERED.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 9, 2019 21:24:13 GMT
I mean weren't the last two games criticized for being rushed? To be honest, I prefer Bioware to take their time with this game?
I don't think the game's being rushed was the only reason. Why were they rushed was one of the main questions and concerns. The last two games both had more than enough time to not be rushed, fives years or more. It's what they did with the time that has people scratching their heads. I thought DA4 would have been easy since it was a continuation of the current story, but now they've already rebooted it once. Seems like they can't just pick something and stick with it.
I mean the difference between DA4 and the other games is that they maintained the core writers and have a direction so I'm fine with it.
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Post by revelationeffect on Nov 10, 2019 1:15:30 GMT
I don't think the game's being rushed was the only reason. Why were they rushed was one of the main questions and concerns. The last two games both had more than enough time to not be rushed, fives years or more. It's what they did with the time that has people scratching their heads. I thought DA4 would have been easy since it was a continuation of the current story, but now they've already rebooted it once. Seems like they can't just pick something and stick with it.
I mean the difference between DA4 and the other games is that they maintained the core writers and have a direction so I'm fine with it. Not to mention it’s not that they couldn’t choose a direction but that Anthem’s clusterfuck of a dev cycle ended up stealing most of the team and got the project rebooted as a result. |
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Post by mmoblitz on Nov 10, 2019 11:47:40 GMT
Indifferent is what I voted. At this point, I'm deciding if I wash my hands of Bioware and EA permanently. Just play DAO or DA2 when I need a DA fix or MEA trilogy if I need an ME fix. There are too many other studios now that are doing a very nice job in filling the void Bioware left behind. there are literally zero companies that fill the bioware void of what makes them unique. If your talking about the Bioware of old then I agree. If your talking about spending 5+ yrs on a game and then being a dumpster fire at release then yes, Bioware is unique, though it could be argued that Bethesda is right up there also.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 10, 2019 11:49:48 GMT
there are literally zero companies that fill the bioware void of what makes them unique. If your talking about the Bioware of old then I agree. If your talking about spending 5+ yrs on a game and then being a dumpster fire at release then yes, Bioware is unique, though it could be argued that Bethesda is right up there also. neither.  |
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Post by samhain444 on Nov 12, 2019 18:05:38 GMT
If your talking about the Bioware of old then I agree. If your talking about spending 5+ yrs on a game and then being a dumpster fire at release then yes, Bioware is unique, though it could be argued that Bethesda is right up there also. neither. Yep, there is no dev out there that currently checks all these boxes as well as BioWare: - 3rd person perspective - multiple party configuration during exploration/battle - character creator - voiced protagonist - multi-branching dialogue - party interaction and relationship development - Romance with party and non-party members - actions impact world-state and world's response to the character There are other elements to be sure but those off the top of my head. There are games/devs that have recently incorporated BioWare-esque pieces into their games but it's usually only 20-30% of that list. BioWare still produces unique experiences which is why, even after some disappointment, they are still anticipated.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 12, 2019 22:25:25 GMT
there are literally zero companies that fill the bioware void of what makes them unique. If your talking about the Bioware of old then I agree. If your talking about spending 5+ yrs on a game and then being a dumpster fire at release then yes, Bioware is unique, though it could be argued that Bethesda is right up there also. Define dumpster fire, for the closest BioWare game has been to a dumpster fire in Anthem and it was a new IP and plenty of new IPs have not been well received after people had an initial surge. Think of something like Destiny 1 where there was so much hype for the game, but it came crashing down after launch and people had a chance to actually play the game and took until The Fallen King before people started to talk about how much improved the game was. Similar situation for Diablo 3 it might have sold millions of copies, but plenty of players are plenty upset about the game and for me it took until the expansion Reaper of Souls to have really improved the game from launch.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 12, 2019 23:32:42 GMT
- ME3 required playing multiplayer to get the ending where Shepard survived, as multiplayer was needed to get a high EMS number where EMS is calculated by multiplying War Assets times the Readiness rating.
- The game's red-blue-green finale was allegedly written by two managers without any input from the rest of the team, and many protests from the other writers were ultimately ignored. Allegedly, these two managers decided that they did not need to be peer reviewed (for "whatever" reason).
I wonder if these two Bioware managers were encouraged ORDERED to ignore peer review by EA to create an ending sequence that required multiplayer live service to get the "best ending"?
There ... I changed encouraged to ORDERED.
That's even more stupid. Now EA's ordering no peer review for no reason whatsoever, since they can just order what they want for EMS scores and leave peer review in place.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 12, 2019 23:54:29 GMT
There ... I changed encouraged to ORDERED.
That's even more stupid. Now EA's ordering no peer review for no reason whatsoever, since they can just order what they want for EMS scores and leave peer review in place. The problem with the narrative is that its a player based one without anyone else backing it up. There was a BioWare post that said the original math worked out, but content was changed and removed that caused the problem with needing multiplayer. Of course that doesn't fit the narrative people want to spread so it gets ignored.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 13, 2019 0:39:42 GMT
Right. Particularly since Bio devs acted like they were genuinely surprised by the EMS requirements being what they were. There were several outright denials of reality in the first few days after release, which isn't a sensible way to approach such an issue if you actually know that you're wrong about it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 13, 2019 10:53:40 GMT
From the most recent products from both companies...not really. Spiders has the companion angle more or less down...but their take on RP made me so mad I rage quit the let's play I was watching. And Outer Worlds...first person voiceless RPG with a CC and no companions that I saw so far? No thanks. Only company that seems interested in being in shouting distance of bio right now is Ubisoft. Still lagging behind but A. They are the closest and B. Seem like they are honestly trying to improve. But all the offerings from these studios over the past 12 months or so, since AssCreed: Odyssey, to Outer Worlds, all received better reception to Bioware's A Team offering. At some point, you have to recognize Bioware's decline and the other studios doing a better job at a similar endeavor. As for the issue when bio has left pre pod...well they also had to wait for the move more then likely before getting everything started, at least that's the smart play. Now that that's out of the way they are either in production or soon will be. There was no insinuation made by Casey in the Bioware blog that they were leaving pre-production any time soon. Until further notice, assume they are still operating in pre-production. Bioware has a tendency of delaying going into full development with the last three titles they've released. |
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Post by deadlydwarf on Nov 13, 2019 14:16:59 GMT
Is this serious? By the time DA4 comes out, fans of DA1 to DA3 will have moved on to other games and forgotten DA altogether!
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 13, 2019 14:41:45 GMT
Is this serious? By the time DA4 comes out, fans of DA1 to DA3 will have moved on to other games and forgotten DA altogether! If they’re still following it five years after the last entry, I think they’ll take notice and return when the marketing kicks in a year or two from now. |
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 13, 2019 18:00:31 GMT
I'm angry. I don't understand how it takes this long. I also don't understand why they don't pick up where they left off with the old stuff they had before pulling people off it to work on anthem. Also I don't see why they haven't been working on it to some degree already.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 13, 2019 18:26:54 GMT
From the most recent products from both companies...not really. Spiders has the companion angle more or less down...but their take on RP made me so mad I rage quit the let's play I was watching. And Outer Worlds...first person voiceless RPG with a CC and no companions that I saw so far? No thanks. Only company that seems interested in being in shouting distance of bio right now is Ubisoft. Still lagging behind but A. They are the closest and B. Seem like they are honestly trying to improve. But all the offerings from these studios over the past 12 months or so, since AssCreed: Odyssey, to Outer Worlds, all received better reception to Bioware's A Team offering. At some point, you have to recognize Bioware's decline and the other studios doing a better job at a similar endeavor. As for the issue when bio has left pre pod...well they also had to wait for the move more then likely before getting everything started, at least that's the smart play. Now that that's out of the way they are either in production or soon will be. There was no insinuation made by Casey in the Bioware blog that they were leaving pre-production any time soon. Until further notice, assume they are still operating in pre-production. Bioware has a tendency of delaying going into full development with the last three titles they've released. I don't have to recognize any such thing because I flat out disagree. If anything both Andromeda and Inquisition has been among the best work of their respective franchises which moved them in interesting new directions that I hope they continue to flesh out in future games. |
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 13, 2019 18:30:09 GMT
I'm angry. I don't understand how it takes this long. I also don't understand why they don't pick up where they left off with the old stuff they had before pulling people off it to work on anthem. Also I don't see why they haven't been working on it to some degree already. Here's a brief breakdown on its progress, and the series of hurdles it's had to face... A small team started working on Joplin in 2015, but had to pause in late 2016 to work on ME:A. Then the small team went back to work after ME:A launched. But in 2017, Joplin was cancelled, BioWare Montreal was merged into Motive (so they're now down one studio, but with a new AAA franchise in the mix), and most moved over to work on Anthem. An even smaller team started to work on Morrison, which has been incrementally growing since Anthem launched. Casey's blog post mentioned DA4 was still in pre-production, though we haven't heard if they've moved beyond that yet.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 13, 2019 18:44:33 GMT
Basically, the troubled development of Andromeda and Anthem made it very difficult for them to work on other projects.
We really have no idea how much of Joplin’s work was scrapped or repurposed for Morrison, so let’s not speculate on that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 13, 2019 18:47:15 GMT
Basically, the troubled development of Andromeda and Anthem made it very difficult for them to work on other projects. We really have no idea how much of Joplin’s work was scrapped or repurposed for Morrison, so let’s not speculate on that. Enough where it's going to take them several years to make the game, more than the usual development time between their games.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 13, 2019 18:51:01 GMT
Basically, the troubled development of Andromeda and Anthem made it very difficult for them to work on other projects. We really have no idea how much of Joplin’s work was scrapped or repurposed for Morrison, so let’s not speculate on that. I get the feeling that it is difficult for them to work on more then one project even if Anthems development went smoothly. |
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 13, 2019 19:17:21 GMT
Basically, the troubled development of Andromeda and Anthem made it very difficult for them to work on other projects. We really have no idea how much of Joplin’s work was scrapped or repurposed for Morrison, so let’s not speculate on that. Enough where it's going to take them several years to make the game, more than the usual development time between their games. Yeah I think we can infer based on how far they are off how little of it was likely repurposed.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 13, 2019 19:18:18 GMT
Basically, the troubled development of Andromeda and Anthem made it very difficult for them to work on other projects. We really have no idea how much of Joplin’s work was scrapped or repurposed for Morrison, so let’s not speculate on that. Enough where it's going to take them several years to make the game, more than the usual development time between their games. Maybe The optimist in me thinks the longer time frame might be an effort to avoid the crunch that was so hard on the developers as well as ensure they can actually deliver a quality product, they aren’t in a position to repeat either Anthem or Andromeda’s initial reception. Most of what was saved from Joplin would be gameplay concepts, story and design. So it may not cut out that much actual development time even if they kept it, especially if it had to be substantially reworked for new concept. |
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Post by Little Bengel on Nov 13, 2019 19:34:01 GMT
Enough where it's going to take them several years to make the game, more than the usual development time between their games. Maybe The optimist in me thinks the longer time frame might be an effort to avoid the crunch that was so hard on the developers as well as ensure they can actually deliver a quality product, they aren’t in a position to repeat either Anthem or Andromeda’s initial reception. Most of what was saved from Joplin would be gameplay concepts, story and design. So it may not cut out that much actual development time even if they kept it, especially if it had to be substantially reworked for new concept. Using a pre-existing codebase is likely to have saved them a good amount of time. Plus, it sounds to me like Joplin never made it past the pre-production stage, so Morrison is likely to be at the same approximate stage right now. Maybe a little behind, maybe a little ahead, but probably around that stage. And like you, I'm thinking they had to have saved at least some of what they already brought up for Joplin, even if only some combat frameworks and story concepts.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 13, 2019 22:37:24 GMT
I don't have to recognize any such thing because I flat out disagree You can disagree with it, but to all the people that have made arguments and come to conclusions and the overwhelming general consensus that places these games above Anthem, can you prove them wrong? That you personally disagree is, well, personal. It won't hold up. And in the eyes of the people, it needs to. If anything both Andromeda and Inquisition has been among the best work of their respective franchises which moved them in interesting new directions that I hope they continue to flesh out in future games. You can say that about Inquisition, at least, but Andromeda put Mass Effect on ice. And that's bad. That's very bad. You had Mark Darrah come out and say it was deeply flawed. You can't have that and say its some of their best work. Bioware themselves denied it. They've denounced their own game. I'm not saying you shouldn't like it. I'm not saying you shouldn't love it. But you're fighting a battle that Bioware themselves opted out of. They've conceded defeat in the defense of Andromeda. You'll have to take it up with Mark Darrah first, if you really want to debate that with people. |
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Post by colfoley on Nov 13, 2019 23:47:33 GMT
I don't have to recognize any such thing because I flat out disagree You can disagree with it, but to all the people that have made arguments and come to conclusions and the overwhelming general consensus that places these games above Anthem, can you prove them wrong? That you personally disagree is, well, personal. It won't hold up. And in the eyes of the people, it needs to. If anything both Andromeda and Inquisition has been among the best work of their respective franchises which moved them in interesting new directions that I hope they continue to flesh out in future games. You can say that about Inquisition, at least, but Andromeda put Mass Effect on ice. And that's bad. That's very bad. You had Mark Darrah come out and say it was deeply flawed. You can't have that and say its some of their best work. Bioware themselves denied it. They've denounced their own game. I'm not saying you shouldn't like it. I'm not saying you shouldn't love it. But you're fighting a battle that Bioware themselves opted out of. They've conceded defeat in the defense of Andromeda. You'll have to take it up with Mark Darrah first, if you really want to debate that with people. Your debating it with me now. If it were such a settled issue then you wouldn't be here. I'd be the delusional one ranting at the walls of my padded cell and you'd be ignoring me as such, the fact that you are here debating it says that you, personally, do not believe this is a settled issue. Its not about proving them wrong, that's one of the issues here and one of the disconnects. I'm not here to 'prove' anything. I am simply here to state my opinion on a game I happen to like, discuss the strengths and weaknesses of said game with like minded people, and maybe learn a thing or two in the process. I don't need some authoratitive figure or some nebuluos group of fans to validate my opinion, I will enjoy these games. Which as far as Mark Darrah's comments are concerned...most games are deeply flawed. I don't take his commentary to mean anything more then it is, which apparently the 'on ice' comments were taken out of context...because of course it was. |
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