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Post by colfoley on Dec 1, 2019 23:20:05 GMT
people have been saying this since EA bought Bio...what, about a decade ago? And it still hasn't come to past. And yet the past 2 games have been flops. How many back to back Bioware games were flops 15 years ago? irrelevant, apparently. |
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Post by majesticjazz on Dec 1, 2019 23:49:21 GMT
And yet the past 2 games have been flops. How many back to back Bioware games were flops 15 years ago? irrelevant, apparently. Like Frostbite. Too bad Bioware has to use that engine. |
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 2, 2019 23:00:09 GMT
Indifferent, at this point.
My original projection ,based on a two game cycle of ME and DA + a 5-6 year development cycle was that DA4 would launch around late 2020, possibly 2021. This was in 2015, if memory serves. Of course, many developments and revelations occurred since but I was within the ball park. The indifference is based on the pivot that Bio took regarding old fashion RPG games vs the new reality of live-service ones and the kerfuffle about micro transactions which has effected game design, progression and loot.
Live-service games is anathema to RPGs. I ignore Bio's competitive studios that show the exception to this new industry standard (according to EA). I'm referring solely to EA/Bio here. Thus, my expectation of DA4, is a game that is more in line with MP as its core and not story driven with solid characters (that I wish). Ergo, the indifference.
Now someone can point to the new Disney Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order as a come back for RPG games. It is a 20-30 hr long game, depending on how one plays it. Sorry, I don't buy it. EA made a mess of the previous Disney one and this is an atonement to Disney (imo).
Bio placed itself in a position that it must now show/prove it can still develop games I love. Until then, meh.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 3, 2019 1:39:58 GMT
Sorry, I don't buy it. EA made a mess of the previous Disney one and this is an atonement to Disney (imo). Was it really? IIRC, Bog Iger (CEO for Disney) came out and said that he was happy with how Battlefront II turned out. The guy probably doesn't care all that much about a review score. Just that's it's pulling in money, which - for the less than projected sales it made - it still likely earned at launch. We also tend to forget that EA also has SWTOR. I can't say for sure how much it's brought in during recent years, but it was a profitable game over it's lifetime. I will say that I am skeptical about how BioWare will choose to handle live service, but it should be noted that there are RPG games out there with no multiplayer component that also had live service updates. The most notable example was AC: Odyssey, which had a blend of free gameplay and story updates in addition to paid DLC.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 3, 2019 2:06:49 GMT
Like Frostbite. Too bad Bioware has to use that engine. I'm actually curious now if Respawn will have to also be brought into the fold with Frostbite; now that SW:JFO is out.
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Post by samhain444 on Dec 3, 2019 15:15:15 GMT
Like Frostbite. Too bad Bioware has to use that engine. I'm actually curious now if Respawn will have to also be brought into the fold with Frostbite; now that SW:JFO is out. Patrick Soderlund was the EA exec pushing that initiative and he's not there any more...though I'm sure for cost/profit reasons EA would obviously prefer their games be made on Frostbite. Apex Legends uses the Source engine and "SWJFO" used Unreal 4 on two successful launches so I'm not sure how eager EA is to mess with that formula.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 3, 2019 17:12:01 GMT
I'm actually curious now if Respawn will have to also be brought into the fold with Frostbite; now that SW:JFO is out. Patrick Soderlund was the EA exec pushing that initiative and he's not there any more...though I'm sure for cost/profit reasons EA would obviously prefer their games be made on Frostbite. Apex Legends uses the Source engine and "SWJFO" used Unreal 4 on two successful launches so I'm not sure how eager EA is to mess with that formula. I wonder if EA would ever let BioWare make their own engine. They likely dont have the resources to do so - currently - but I believe they've made one in the past before (Lycian engine I think it was?). IIRC, it was also used by CDPR for the Witcher 1. |
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Dec 3, 2019 18:21:48 GMT
Indifferent, at this point.
My original projection ,based on a two game cycle of ME and DA + a 5-6 year development cycle was that DA4 would launch around late 2020, possibly 2021. This was in 2015, if memory serves. Of course, many developments and revelations occurred since but I was within the ball park. The indifference is based on the pivot that Bio took regarding old fashion RPG games vs the new reality of live-service ones and the kerfuffle about micro transactions which has effected game design, progression and loot.
Live-service games is anathema to RPGs. I ignore Bio's competitive studios that show the exception to this new industry standard (according to EA). I'm referring solely to EA/Bio here. Thus, my expectation of DA4, is a game that is more in line with MP as its core and not story driven with solid characters (that I wish). Ergo, the indifference.
Now someone can point to the new Disney Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order as a come back for RPG games. It is a 20-30 hr long game, depending on how one plays it. Sorry, I don't buy it. EA made a mess of the previous Disney one and this is an atonement to Disney (imo).
Bio placed itself in a position that it must now show/prove it can still develop games I love. Until then, meh.
Jedi Fallen Order was a good game. Long time coming for another good Star Wars SP game. I'm shocked it was live service free, because it could have gone a different direction. All those light saber skins, colors and other things that you could fine during the game. Had this been a live service game, we probably would have gotten a minimal amount of customizations and the rest would have probably been in a store, or loot boxes.
I do agree that this is probably an outlier. After the whole unlocking Vader and lootbox debacle from Battlefront II, they probably didn't want to piss of Star Wars fans again.
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Post by samhain444 on Dec 3, 2019 18:41:07 GMT
Patrick Soderlund was the EA exec pushing that initiative and he's not there any more...though I'm sure for cost/profit reasons EA would obviously prefer their games be made on Frostbite. Apex Legends uses the Source engine and "SWJFO" used Unreal 4 on two successful launches so I'm not sure how eager EA is to mess with that formula. I wonder if EA would ever let BioWare make their own engine. They likely dont have the resources to do so - currently - but I believe they've made one in the past before (Lycian engine I think it was?). IIRC, it was also used by CDPR for the Witcher 1. BioWare developed the Infinity Engine for "Baldur's Gate" which was then upgraded to the Aurora Engine for "Neverwinter Nights" which was then upgraded the Odyssey Engine for "KOTOR" and "Jade Empire. From there they upgraded the Odyssey Engine to the Eclipse Engine for "Dragon Age Origins" followed by another upgrade to the Lycium Engine for "Dragon Age 2". Alternatively, the used Unreal Engine 3 for all the games in "Mass Effect Trilogy". There was supposedly some limitations to the Lycium Engine and it had pretty much reached it peak in terms of what it could do in regards to game development. They had to upgrade their engine to get to the next console generation so it likely became a comparison to what was available company wide versus licencing an engine like Unreal. Maybe it would have been better to go with Unreal but, at the time, it may have seemed wise from a business perspective to go with the in-house Frostbite, obviously not knowing at the time the hassles they'd endure. As for switching back to Unreal as some has suggestion...that ship has sailed in regards to "DA4". You'd have to basically re-train the staff (if that"s even possible) to use Unreal or overturn what you have and hire devs with knowledge Unreal...either option in pretty disruptive.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 3, 2019 19:35:16 GMT
There was supposedly some limitations to the Lycium Engine and it had pretty much reached it peak in terms of what it could do in regards to game development. "Held together by string and happy thoughts by the end" <<-- paraphrasing of a comment by Mark Darrah (I think). Definitely not suitable or appropriate for DAI or beyond. |
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Post by samhain444 on Dec 3, 2019 22:14:36 GMT
There was supposedly some limitations to the Lycium Engine and it had pretty much reached it peak in terms of what it could do in regards to game development. "Held together by string and happy thoughts by the end" <<-- paraphrasing of a comment by Mark Darrah (I think). Definitely not suitable or appropriate for DAI or beyond. Yep...and they threw that game together in 16 months on that engine. Despite its well-known eccentricities, it's amazing that we still got a pretty damn good game.
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Post by githcheater on Dec 4, 2019 1:41:05 GMT
"Held together by string and happy thoughts by the end" <<-- paraphrasing of a comment by Mark Darrah (I think). Definitely not suitable or appropriate for DAI or beyond. Yep...and they threw that game together in 16 months on that engine. Despite its well-known eccentricities, it's amazing that we still got a pretty damn good game. but we got ugly hands with awful dark skinned complexions ... LOL
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 4, 2019 14:29:14 GMT
I wonder how many of the old hardcore DA fans since late 2009 will still endure till 2022....
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 4, 2019 16:53:50 GMT
Anyone who's leaving before 2022 is probably gone already.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 4, 2019 17:45:50 GMT
I wonder how many of the old hardcore DA fans since late 2009 will still endure till 2022.... Okami came out in 2006 and I still would buy the sequel if there was one being released today. I mean a proper sequel. Not that Okamiden shit.
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Twitter Guru
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More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 4, 2019 18:05:53 GMT
Anyone who's leaving before 2022 is probably gone already. Just wait until the DA4 marketing machine ramps up...  |
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Post by colfoley on Dec 4, 2019 18:31:25 GMT
I wonder how many of the old hardcore DA fans since late 2009 will still endure till 2022.... I'm with them...till the end of the line. |
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Post by river82 on Dec 4, 2019 20:42:16 GMT
I wonder how many of the old hardcore DA fans since late 2009 will still endure till 2022.... Hmmm... When Origins came out there was this huge hype that "OMG, spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! Bioware's making RPGs for PC gamers again! What do you mean you're playing it on console, you're playing it wrong if you're not playing it on PC. Isometric strategic gameplay for the win!" That was the general feeling surrounding Origins. Fast forward a couple of years and all of a sudden it's now an action game with waves of enemies raining from the sky. Many hardcore fans of Origins may not have stuck around merely because of the (continuous) changing of gameplay style. Or if they have stuck around they may not be as emotionally attached.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 4, 2019 20:45:02 GMT
I wonder how many of the old hardcore DA fans since late 2009 will still endure till 2022.... Hmmm... When Origins came out there was this huge hype that "OMG, spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! Bioware's making RPGs for PC gamers again! What do you mean you're playing it on console, you're playing it wrong if you're not playing it on PC. Isometric strategic gameplay for the win!" That was the general feeling surrounding Origins. Fast forward a couple of years and all of a sudden it's now an action game with waves of enemies raining from the sky. Many hardcore fans of Origins may not have stuck around merely because of the (continuous) changing of gameplay style. Or if they have stuck around they may not be as emotionally attached. *whistles 'it's raining bandits'* |
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Dec 4, 2019 22:38:20 GMT
I wonder how many of the old hardcore DA fans since late 2009 will still endure till 2022.... I'm with them...till the end of the line. 
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Post by colfoley on Dec 4, 2019 23:21:10 GMT
I'm with them...till the end of the line. I was thinking more Captain America but right franchise.  |
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Post by Iakus on Dec 4, 2019 23:36:59 GMT
I was thinking more Captain America but right franchise.  He got the phrase from Bucky in the first place
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Post by coldsteelblue on Dec 5, 2019 11:21:07 GMT
I wonder how many of the old hardcore DA fans since late 2009 will still endure till 2022....
I'm going nowhere!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 5, 2019 12:58:27 GMT
I think it's become pretty apparent to must of us here by now that DA4 is scheduled for a late 2022/early 2023 release date; confirmed by EA CEO Andrew Wilson. Given Casey Hudson's recent blog post mentioning that the next Dragon Age game was still in pre-production, this launch window makes sense given the work that is still needed to get it into launch form. While some took this news with optimism, over prospects of the game having more time to fully finish, others here have expressed disappointment, as they feel it's undeserved given the Trespasser DLC cliffhanger. There's widely different viewpoints on this forum, so I figured I'd try and gauge were everyone's at overall. I didn't attach any descriptions to the emotions I listed as options, because one person feeling the same emotion as another person may be due to different reasons. For example, someone may be happy that DA4 is being launched years away because they feel it will give the devs more time to flesh out the game. Another person may be happy the game is launching so far away because it'll give them time to play other games. One person may be indifferent to the launch window because when the day comes when it releases, they'll decide to try it then. Another person may be indifferent because they have no faith in the next game whatsoever.
I'm mixed.
If the extra time makes DA4 a great game then it's worth it. I mean it took BioWare 6 YEARS to make DAO, so I would rather they take their time and get it right.
Besides I got plenty of games to play and not to mention Dragon Age and Mass Effect novels and comics to read and re-read. Does it suck that having to wait until 2022/23 for the next Dragon Age game? Yeah, it does. But there are a pair of old sayings that keeps me grounded during this wait: "You know never something you've taken for granted until it's not there." and "I can't miss something if it never goes away." and to me personally both of those sayings apply to not only to Dragon Age but to BioWare in general.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 5, 2019 15:00:28 GMT
Sorry, I don't buy it. EA made a mess of the previous Disney one and this is an atonement to Disney (imo). Was it really? IIRC, Bog Iger (CEO for Disney) came out and said that he was happy with how Battlefront II turned out. The guy probably doesn't care all that much about a review score. Just that's it's pulling in money, which - for the less than projected sales it made - it still likely earned at launch. We also tend to forget that EA also has SWTOR. I can't say for sure how much it's brought in during recent years, but it was a profitable game over it's lifetime. I will say that I am skeptical about how BioWare will choose to handle live service, but it should be noted that there are RPG games out there with no multiplayer component that also had live service updates. The most notable example was AC: Odyssey, which had a blend of free gameplay and story updates in addition to paid DLC. Review scores will matter to a degree in the last investors report it was stated the two Battlefront games have sold over 33 million copies combined and The Old Republic is close to a billion dollars in profit. So I would think Disney would be happy with those results, for they might not have met expectations they did sell plenty of copies and there is still enough interest in Battlefront 2 they are still adding content.
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