correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Post by correctamundo on Nov 17, 2019 22:36:15 GMT
I don't think correctamundo's feeling tracks with reality. Bio historically hasn't thought of itself as a niche studio. It's more that the gaming marketplace changed around Bio and the stuff they used to do became niche. You have to explain my feeling to me for I don't seem to be in tune with it. Is it that first month numbers? I have only seen up to 3,5 millions for ME3 and it is regarded highest initial sale of a Bioware game. Those numbers don't seem like niche numbers to me but expecting almost twice as much from Anthem seems a bit bold to me.
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Post by river82 on Nov 17, 2019 22:40:50 GMT
I don't think correctamundo's feeling tracks with reality. Bio historically hasn't thought of itself as a niche studio. It's more that the gaming marketplace changed around Bio and the stuff they used to do became niche. You have to explain my feeling to me for I don't seem to be in tune with it. Is it that first month numbers? I have only seen up to 3,5 millions for ME3 and it is regarded highest initial sale of a Bioware game. Those numbers don't seem like niche numbers to me but expecting almost twice as much from Anthem seems a bit bold to me. It's not a new thing. Bioware has gone on record chasing 10 million copies since 2010. The problem is 10 million copies was a huge hit back in 2010 but these days that number's moved a little further. And I don't think they've ever hit 10 million copies. To me this 5-6 million in the first month is a continuation of a goal Bioware has had for about 10 years now - they want that blockbuster and they're still chasing it.
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Post by Little Bengel on Nov 17, 2019 22:49:11 GMT
You have to explain my feeling to me for I don't seem to be in tune with it. Is it that first month numbers? I have only seen up to 3,5 millions for ME3 and it is regarded highest initial sale of a Bioware game. Those numbers don't seem like niche numbers to me but expecting almost twice as much from Anthem seems a bit bold to me. It's not a new thing. Bioware has gone on record chasing 10 million copies since 2010. The problem is 10 million copies was a huge hit back in 2010 but these days that number's moved a little further. And I don't think they've ever hit 10 million copies. To me this 5-6 million in the first month is a continuation of a goal Bioware has had for about 10 years now - they want that blockbuster and they're still chasing it. I dunno, seems to me like they're more likely to get the blockbuster they want if they stop chasing it and focus on making a solid game. Here's hoping the good folks at Austin and Edmonton can do that.
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Post by skekSil on Nov 17, 2019 23:13:32 GMT
Have you people considered how their Origin Access factor into all of this? We have no way of knowing how many people used it to try the game and how many of those decided to renew subscription for following months.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 18, 2019 6:19:30 GMT
So what do you want your argument to be? That Anthem is now $20? Okay. That doesn't mean the game didn't meet the goals EA wanted either at launch for I am pretty sure it took longer to reach a price drop then Andromeda did. For I remember Andromeda sales on Origin about a month after release, but it took at least three for me to notice one for Anthem and three months is the golden window. Do I think Anthem will last around forever? I doubt it will see a long term commitment from EA or BioWare, but if these reports are correct it still shows to me people are playing the game regardless of the price it sells for. You need to fact check. EA itself said Anthem missed sales expectations. It’s also silly that you’d think they’d drop the price that much and that quickly if it was selling fine. As to player count, Anthem was bumped from the XBox Live top 50 a while ago, which means its playerbase is <2500 players. Twitch viewership is also anemic. That’s pretty much the only data we have other than people here claiming they can find games readily, which I take with a major grain of salt given their post history (I checked back in when Cataclysm launched on ps4 prime time east coast, rarely had full games). But sure, you can go on thinking this game is killing it. Doesn’t really affect anything. Just indicative of the caliber of discussion left on these dying forums. 1) Where on earth did I say Anthem was killing it? I said other games are in similar shape after being on the market for a few months and its not unusual to have low numbers after being out this long. 2) Where did EA say that it missed expectations? I have not seen any official comment from the company in that regard and would like to add it for my arguments for I like using facts when I speak and if there are some out there I haven't seen I would like it for my records.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 18, 2019 6:23:23 GMT
I don't think correctamundo's feeling tracks with reality. Bio historically hasn't thought of itself as a niche studio. It's more that the gaming marketplace changed around Bio and the stuff they used to do became niche. You have to explain my feeling to me for I don't seem to be in tune with it. Is it that first month numbers? I have only seen up to 3,5 millions for ME3 and it is regarded highest initial sale of a Bioware game. Those numbers don't seem like niche numbers to me but expecting almost twice as much from Anthem seems a bit bold to me. As you say, those aren't really niche numbers. Bio's always wanted to be whatever an AAA studio looks like, and at times they have got there. What this actually means changes over the years. (Starting with 2006 or 2010 is a bit late; the genre was already in relative decline by then.) Unless your point is more along the lines of Bio shouldn't think of themselves this way? Whether the Anthem projections were realistic is another matter. But I don't see why a competently executed Destiny clone wouldn't be expected to do Destiny-like business.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 18, 2019 7:04:09 GMT
You have to explain my feeling to me for I don't seem to be in tune with it. Is it that first month numbers? I have only seen up to 3,5 millions for ME3 and it is regarded highest initial sale of a Bioware game. Those numbers don't seem like niche numbers to me but expecting almost twice as much from Anthem seems a bit bold to me. As you say, those aren't really niche numbers. Bio's always wanted to be whatever an AAA studio looks like, and at times they have got there. What this actually means changes over the years. (Starting with 2006 or 2010 is a bit late; the genre was already in relative decline by then.) Unless your point is more along the lines of Bio shouldn't think of themselves this way? Whether the Anthem projections were realistic is another matter. But I don't see why a competently executed Destiny clone wouldn't be expected to do Destiny-like business. The question to ask yourself if how many games has Bungie made prior to Destiny that was similar to Destiny and then the same for BioWare. BioWare normally had a weakness of combat until Mass Effect 3 and their games were designed to be offline. Bungie made Halo and if you read the comment when Destiny 1 came out a lot of them at least for me read that the combat is what saved the game otherwise it would be a disappointment. Its more then just making a similar game its about the expertise they have developed with the games they have made before.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Nov 18, 2019 9:05:49 GMT
You have to explain my feeling to me for I don't seem to be in tune with it. Is it that first month numbers? I have only seen up to 3,5 millions for ME3 and it is regarded highest initial sale of a Bioware game. Those numbers don't seem like niche numbers to me but expecting almost twice as much from Anthem seems a bit bold to me. As you say, those aren't really niche numbers. Bio's always wanted to be whatever an AAA studio looks like, and at times they have got there. What this actually means changes over the years. (Starting with 2006 or 2010 is a bit late; the genre was already in relative decline by then.) Unless your point is more along the lines of Bio shouldn't think of themselves this way? Whether the Anthem projections were realistic is another matter. But I don't see why a competently executed Destiny clone wouldn't be expected to do Destiny-like business. There is nothing wrong with striving to reach further but to me expecting that much of a leap is foolhardy. Still extrapolating from what we know they didn't make it in a month but after six they did make enough to be "humbly excited". Even if they didn't meet Jorgensens expectations by the end of march EA is clearly not "pulling the plug" on either Bioware or Anthem. Anyway, it isn't a Destiny clone, if anything it is more like Diablo and Mass Effect had a baby. Not that Diablo is less of comparison.
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 18, 2019 10:01:50 GMT
If we have to pay for it, no interest. If it's free, interest.
Either way. Bioware is dead to me. But Anthem might survive.
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Post by saandrig on Nov 18, 2019 10:14:50 GMT
If we have to pay for it, no interest. If it's free, interest. Either way. Bioware is dead to me. But Anthem might survive. Every youtuber and clickbaiter is in the church right now praying "Let it be paid!" Imagine that shitstorm.
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 18, 2019 11:24:39 GMT
If we have to pay for it, no interest. If it's free, interest. Either way. Bioware is dead to me. But Anthem might survive. Every youtuber and clickbaiter is in the church right now praying "Let it be paid!" Imagine that shitstorm. I wouldn't even be surprised. Knowing Bioware's fuck-uppery historical record... They'll probably defend it by saying it's an expansion, which is their right. But no freelancer worth his money will see it that way... Still, this world is full of idiots (Fo76) so I'm sure there'll be paying people.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Nov 18, 2019 11:40:50 GMT
As for Frostbite, the problem is not the engine and its presentation capabilities per se. Frostbite actually is, in the hands of a studio like DICE, one amazing engine capable of impressive animations and visual effects. Every Frostbite game released by DICE has been on the forefront of graphical fidelity and optimization. Frostbite is not the problem. Bioware trying to use Frostbite is the problem. That is one issue largely acknowledged by current and former Bioware employees. Anything they want to make running Frostbite takes longer and consume more resources than it would otherwise on an engine like Unreal.You sure about this or vetäisitkö hatusta? If this is the case, then there is something wrong with the documentation or structure of the engine, or then just too much given to bite into?
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 18, 2019 13:05:35 GMT
You sure about this or vetäisitkö hatusta? If this is the case, then there is something wrong with the documentation or structure of the engine, or then just too much given to bite into? As I see it, I think the problem is that BioWare doesn't have someone with a deep knowledge of the engine on staff and are relying heavily on people from Dice to fill that role. So if they are moved to a new project they are left to fend for themselves. I think it would be a similar problem with any engine BioWare was to use, for they would be stuck using third party experts instead of knowing it themselves.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Nov 18, 2019 13:09:41 GMT
You sure about this or vetäisitkö hatusta? If this is the case, then there is something wrong with the documentation or structure of the engine, or then just too much given to bite into? As I see it, I think the problem is that BioWare doesn't have someone with a deep knowledge of the engine on staff and are relying heavily on people from Dice to fill that role. So if they are moved to a new project they are left to fend for themselves. I think it would be a similar problem with any engine BioWare was to use, for they would be stuck using third party experts instead of knowing it themselves. Yep I think this could be the one. Also if one goes back to see how 'good' the game ran on Unreal Engine 2.x back in the day -- Anyway, its easy to just blaim engines when we dont know further, but its usually wrong as we dont have further info (even ones who have experience with the engines).
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Post by ShadowAngel on Nov 18, 2019 13:18:42 GMT
It's nice to hear about the overhaul but I'm pessimistic on just how good of an overhaul it'll be. I haven't touched the game since like day 2 after launch, it was utter garbage to play and a waste of money. That should also say I'm not paying money for an overhaul either 🤷 if you're having to rework a game, it says so many things on how it came out to begin with to me and it's just an Insult to make people pay for that.
I've looked through the comments as well in here and I get some of y'all are into SP games or wanting more of that in Anthem but I don't see that happening as that just was never what they wanted Anthem to be, nor is it even something I want myself. Far as I'm aware anthem was to be something different and I'm ok with that, I'm also understanding not everything will be for everyone either and I'm also ok with that too.
I can't speak much on the they did fix or change after my 2nd day of playing, but the loot system was atrocious, the variety to the suites (I can't even remember what the metal suits are called they you wear in it anymore lol) was definitely lacking and the AI blew ***, I heard the game also got so easy as time went on so I'm hearing it's not even challenging to play anymore. It's why I'm pessimistic on this overhaul as to me, they've got to get so close to just rebuilding the entirety of the game 😂. If so I even question why invest in doing that when you can make something new entirely from scratch lacking the baggage of anthem outside of biowares own reputation dropping with each new take they've been putting out the last 10 years or so.
That then brings me to the next big point: has bioware got their crap together? I very much doubt it myself, especially so soon. Management has clearly been terrible the last 3 or 4 games they've put out, and it just seems to get worse with each new thing they put out (and I love my dragon age, but I'm soooooo cautious on how DA4 will be an abomination like Andromeda was, Andromeda killed any interest I had in that franchise, it essentially doesn't exist to me outside the original 3 ME games).
I know Casey is back and all, but hell isn't he the guy that made that rainbow ending for ME3? I'm curious on if we'll see that kind of attitude falling on his staff.
Personally I'd drop anthem entirely, and just make another new IP entirely, people can call abandonment all they want but I wouldn't touch it myself either if I was running the project.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 18, 2019 14:19:25 GMT
It's nice to hear about the overhaul but I'm pessimistic on just how good of an overhaul it'll be. I haven't touched the game since like day 2 after launch, it was utter garbage to play and a waste of money. That should also say I'm not paying money for an overhaul either 🤷 if you're having to rework a game, it says so many things on how it came out to begin with to me and it's just an Insult to make people pay for that. I've looked through the comments as well in here and I get some of y'all are into SP games or wanting more of that in Anthem but I don't see that happening as that just was never what they wanted Anthem to be, nor is it even something I want myself. Far as I'm aware anthem was to be something different and I'm ok with that, I'm also understanding not everything will be for everyone either and I'm also ok with that too. I can't speak much on the they did fix or change after my 2nd day of playing, but the loot system was atrocious, the variety to the suites (I can't even remember what the metal suits are called they you wear in it anymore lol) was definitely lacking and the AI blew ***, I heard the game also got so easy as time went on so I'm hearing it's not even challenging to play anymore. It's why I'm pessimistic on this overhaul as to me, they've got to get so close to just rebuilding the entirety of the game 😂. If so I even question why invest in doing that when you can make something new entirely from scratch lacking the baggage of anthem outside of biowares own reputation dropping with each new take they've been putting out the last 10 years or so. That then brings me to the next big point: has bioware got their crap together? I very much doubt it myself, especially so soon. Management has clearly been terrible the last 3 or 4 games they've put out, and it just seems to get worse with each new thing they put out (and I love my dragon age, but I'm soooooo cautious on how DA4 will be an abomination like Andromeda was, Andromeda killed any interest I had in that franchise, it essentially doesn't exist to me outside the original 3 ME games). I know Casey is back and all, but hell isn't he the guy that made that rainbow ending for ME3? I'm curious on if we'll see that kind of attitude falling on his staff. Personally I'd drop anthem entirely, and just make another new IP entirely, people can call abandonment all they want but I wouldn't touch it myself either if I was running the project. Casey is too young to practice voodoo magic - the only thing that can bring back Mass Effect from the dead. I mean I'm fine with finishing a trilogy and that's it. Or maybe do something like a prequel. I just can't see myself any further in galactic holocaust and species liquification gaming any more.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 18, 2019 14:23:15 GMT
As you say, those aren't really niche numbers. Bio's always wanted to be whatever an AAA studio looks like, and at times they have got there. What this actually means changes over the years. (Starting with 2006 or 2010 is a bit late; the genre was already in relative decline by then.) Unless your point is more along the lines of Bio shouldn't think of themselves this way? Whether the Anthem projections were realistic is another matter. But I don't see why a competently executed Destiny clone wouldn't be expected to do Destiny-like business. There is nothing wrong with striving to reach further but to me expecting that much of a leap is foolhardy. Still extrapolating from what we know they didn't make it in a month but after six they did make enough to be "humbly excited". Even if they didn't meet Jorgensens expectations by the end of march EA is clearly not "pulling the plug" on either Bioware or Anthem. Anyway, it isn't a Destiny clone, if anything it is more like Diablo and Mass Effect had a baby. Not that Diablo is less of comparison. OK. I was thinking more of the business model rather than the gameplay, which I'm not competent to judge. I've never played Destiny at all, and Diablo bored me so much I never got past the demo.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 18, 2019 14:38:48 GMT
As I see it, I think the problem is that BioWare doesn't have someone with a deep knowledge of the engine on staff and are relying heavily on people from Dice to fill that role. So if they are moved to a new project they are left to fend for themselves. I think it would be a similar problem with any engine BioWare was to use, for they would be stuck using third party experts instead of knowing it themselves. Yep I think this could be the one. Also if one goes back to see how 'good' the game ran on Unreal Engine 2.x back in the day -- Anyway, its easy to just blaim engines when we dont know further, but its usually wrong as we dont have further info (even ones who have experience with the engines). I now have an argument when people start talking about how bad Frostbite is and that is the common issue with I/O data with the Unreal Engine. If you hear people complaining that the game will chunk out it is normally when it is transitioning and moving assets to and from memory. Its funny I have seen people arguing that if EA didn't mandate Respawn use Frostbite for Fallen Order the game would run perfectly. The sad thing is that they are willfully ignorant on the issue because it uses Unreal. So I guess that means that you shouldn't use the Unreal Engine when you have to move assets after the load screen, just like you shouldn't use Frostbite for RPGs. </sarcasm>
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Post by Sylvae on Nov 18, 2019 17:52:16 GMT
Maybe someone already said it, I haven't read everything in this thread, but if BW/EA wants to keep their 10 years promise, they do need to overhaul the game, so this is actually good news for me. Also, new ME? Please, don't do this to me Kotaku, I want to sleep in peace.
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Post by goishen on Nov 18, 2019 20:24:01 GMT
Maybe someone already said it, I haven't read everything in this thread, but if BW/EA wants to keep their 10 years promise, they do need to overhaul the game, so this is actually good news for me. Also, new ME? Please, don't do this to me Kotaku, I want to sleep in peace. Oh they won't. It's either that or they'll have 2 people playing it (down from the 8 that are currently playing it) when they finally decide to take the server (note, not servers) offline. And the only reason that those two people are on it is because they are high as fuck and wanna laugh at the game and how bad it actually is.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 18, 2019 20:46:25 GMT
How do MEA fans feel about this news? No DLC for their singleplayer game, dropped like a hot potato, but EA throws more money at this live service dumpster fire. Figures...
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Nov 18, 2019 22:10:08 GMT
How do MEA fans feel about this news? No DLC for their singleplayer game, dropped like a hot potato, but EA throws more money at this live service dumpster fire. Figures...
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Post by Sondergaard on Nov 18, 2019 22:21:37 GMT
Wow. What a waste of time and resources. Hasn't this game done enough damage already? Apparently being at least partly responsible for the failure of ME:A wasn't enough. It's now going to bleed support from DA4 as well. Cool.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:27:52 GMT
How do MEA fans feel about this news? No DLC for their singleplayer game, dropped like a hot potato, but EA throws more money at this live service dumpster fire. Figures... Don't know why it matters... but if they manage to turn this game around that ultimately makes it less likely that EA will shut them down entirely. I said at the time that EA cancelling Andromeda DLC was a mistake... a group of us here even petitioned for a particular DLC in the hopes that their would be enough people requesting it to change EA's mind. It didn't happen. Are we supposed to be overwhelmed with bitterness over it the way some here are bitter towards ME:A because it wasn't the remake of the OT they wanted... and are still demanding... trashing everything else the company does? If they make a go of it with this game... that's a few hundred people in Alberta (where I live) who get to keep their jobs... and then they have money to spend on what my business does. I'm happy. If their gamble fails, I'm sad... the same way I'll be sad if they gamble on remaking the OT and then the people who have become in the habit of hating everything Bioware does don't just love it to bits and sing its praises far and wide... and I'm predicting they will just go on hating on that too because that's what those "fans" do.
As for DA4, I don't like medieval swordplay games. I don't play it and wouldn't play it even if it turns out to be a SP offline game.. I have more interest in playing Anthem than DA4... unfortunately, I can't play Anthem because my internet sucks. If Bioware turns the game around... maybe someday my internet won't suck so badly and I could give Anthem a try.
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 19, 2019 7:23:10 GMT
How do MEA fans feel about this news? No DLC for their singleplayer game, dropped like a hot potato, but EA throws more money at this live service dumpster fire. Figures... I really liked MEA, for what it was. But that game needs a second installment where they fix the story. Not fixable by DLC. Also, I have more hours in Anthem than MEA. But that's due to the nature of the game I suppose. If you asked me now which of these games Id keep playing it'd be Anthem, due to the type of game it is and fun I have with it.
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