Gileadan
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Clearance Level Ultra
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 21, 2019 8:06:05 GMT
Or an indication of just how imprecise his "sources" are. I'm sure that drifter outside the bioware HQ knows what he's talking about. Hey now! "Sources" are my second favourite source of rumours, gossip and sometimes even actual information, right after "circles".
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 11:25:46 GMT
He's nailed it down to somewhere between "dozens" and "hundreds" of people... but wait, isn't that anywhere from 24 to 999? people? Very precise (sarcasm). That's fair, but what is also fair is that since E3 2017, he's been more precise at telling the truth than Bioware so... David Barstow he ain't. I doubt he'll ever win the Pullitzer for Investigative Reporting. The reporting on gaming news just generally sucks. It's mostly about spreading speculation and rumours online... and people here at BSN just love to speculate wildly about everything, adding in a strong dose of hyperbole in the process.
ETA: The thing is 24 people or so "working on plan" for, say, an hour of their work time each week creates a very different impression than, say, even 300 people working all day long revamping an entire game. An even different impression is created by the picture of 24 people working tirelessly with a load of overtime revamping the game. Schrier hasn't actually "reported" anything... he's only hinted and is then letting the reader's speculative nature take over. He did much the same thing when he reported about the Andromeda DLC. He hedged his "report" with a line at the end that said EA could always change their minds. That way, he was covered if a DLC actually showed up. In this case, he's stated that the details are sketchy... Are they sketchy because his "sources" just don't know the details of a solid plan that exists because they themselves aren't involved in the project or are they sketchy because no solid plan exists. Again Schrier doesn't say... he let's the reader's speculative nature take over.
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 21, 2019 12:10:38 GMT
That's fair, but what is also fair is that since E3 2017, he's been more precise at telling the truth than Bioware so... David Barstow he ain't. I doubt he'll ever win the Pullitzer for Investigative Reporting. The reporting on gaming news just generally sucks. It's mostly about spreading speculation and rumours online... and people here at BSN just love to speculate wildly about everything, adding in a strong dose of hyperbole in the process. I speculate that only 250% of the people here on BSN love to speculate.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 12:14:20 GMT
David Barstow he ain't. I doubt he'll ever win the Pullitzer for Investigative Reporting. The reporting on gaming news just generally sucks. It's mostly about spreading speculation and rumours online... and people here at BSN just love to speculate wildly about everything, adding in a strong dose of hyperbole in the process. I speculate that only 250% of the people here on BSN love to speculate. Have a few more likes for that one...
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Post by saandrig on Nov 21, 2019 14:18:02 GMT
I speculate that only 250% of the people here on BSN love to speculate. I am only in 62.5% agreement with that statement!
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Post by mugwump on Nov 21, 2019 14:36:08 GMT
I'm not a fan of Jason Schreier, but it's a simple matter of fact that his reporting of Biowares current woes entends beyond spreading speculation and rumours online.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 15:04:43 GMT
I'm not a fan of Jason Schreier, but it's a simple matter of fact that his reporting of Biowares current woes entends beyond spreading speculation and rumours online. Take the full quote and keep the context please... What I said: "The reporting on gaming news just generally sucks. It's mostly about spreading speculation and rumours online" That's a general observation about the state of the gaming news industry as a whole. Also, I used the term "mostly," which is not "all" and leaves room for the occasional bit of actual reporting.
I later added some specific criticisms of Shreier's style of writing and how it "undermines" (if you prefer) any of the little tidbits of fact that he happens to get from is "sources." His "hedging" way of writing does not lend credibility to his work... it detracts from it. Schrier himself admits it: "The one thing that’s for sure is that BioWare has not abandoned Anthem, despite recent breathless declarations that the game is dead."... which is the same thing Bioware and EA have been tweeting and announcing publicly for weeks now. It's not news.
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Post by tatann on Nov 21, 2019 15:55:12 GMT
That's fair, but what is also fair is that since E3 2017, he's been more precise at telling the truth than Bioware so... Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Well, still better than the clock without needles newBioware has been for a few years ;-)
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Post by tatann on Nov 21, 2019 15:58:14 GMT
That's fair, but what is also fair is that since E3 2017, he's been more precise at telling the truth than Bioware so... David Barstow he ain't. I doubt he'll ever win the Pullitzer for Investigative Reporting. The reporting on gaming news just generally sucks. It's mostly about spreading speculation and rumours online... and people here at BSN just love to speculate wildly about everything, adding in a strong dose of hyperbole in the process.
ETA: The thing is 24 people or so "working on plan" for, say, an hour of their work time each week creates a very different impression than, say, even 300 people working all day long revamping an entire game. An even different impression is created by the picture of 24 people working tirelessly with a load of overtime revamping the game. Schrier hasn't actually "reported" anything... he's only hinted and is then letting the reader's speculative nature take over. He did much the same thing when he reported about the Andromeda DLC. He hedged his "report" with a line at the end that said EA could always change their minds. That way, he was covered if a DLC actually showed up. In this case, he's stated that the details are sketchy... Are they sketchy because his "sources" just don't know the details of a solid plan that exists because they themselves aren't involved in the project or are they sketchy because no solid plan exists. Again Schrier doesn't say... he let's the reader's speculative nature take over.
Once again, at least he's telling some truth we wouldn't get through Bioware transparency (tm), if zealots don't like them, not my problem
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 21, 2019 16:21:08 GMT
Someone remind me.. what has Schreier actually been wrong about in the past? From what I've seen his track record is pretty good, but I haven't read all his stuff.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 21, 2019 16:27:13 GMT
That doesn't actually make sense. It's not like Anthem in its current state is continually losing money. Almost all of its costs are in the past.
Oh? So all the developers that do the overhaul are going to work for free? All the energy cost, office rent, and material costs are donated by a charity fund or something? That's fortunate, because otherwise it would cost money - A LOT of Money!
Nice to know that all that stuff cost nothing at all. I would like to own a game studio like that, so I can develop my game ideas for free.
You seem to have leapt past the point. I'll try to reel you back. Unless EA is really prone to the sunk-cost fallacy -- which is conceivable, but I'd need to see evidence of it -- the reason to invest more money in Anthem now is that EA believes the return on investment on that money will be better than the ROI from other things EA could have done with that money. Whether the accounting box marked "Anthem" ends up profitable or unprofitable isn't relevant to that decision. However much money Anthem did or didn't lose with the initial release, that is in the past and can't be changed. Talking about the "profit road" is just confused. Unless all you meant is that the Anthem revisions need to make their projections?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 16:35:09 GMT
Someone remind me.. what has Schreier actually been wrong about in the past? From what I've seen his track record is pretty good, but I haven't read all his stuff. How can he be wrong... he' hedges both sides of the issue and clouds it all with ambiguity? In this article, what has he actually said beyond "Bioware hasn't abandoned Anthem?" Nothing... and Bioware announced that publicly ages ago.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 16:37:41 GMT
David Barstow he ain't. I doubt he'll ever win the Pullitzer for Investigative Reporting. The reporting on gaming news just generally sucks. It's mostly about spreading speculation and rumours online... and people here at BSN just love to speculate wildly about everything, adding in a strong dose of hyperbole in the process.
ETA: The thing is 24 people or so "working on plan" for, say, an hour of their work time each week creates a very different impression than, say, even 300 people working all day long revamping an entire game. An even different impression is created by the picture of 24 people working tirelessly with a load of overtime revamping the game. Schrier hasn't actually "reported" anything... he's only hinted and is then letting the reader's speculative nature take over. He did much the same thing when he reported about the Andromeda DLC. He hedged his "report" with a line at the end that said EA could always change their minds. That way, he was covered if a DLC actually showed up. In this case, he's stated that the details are sketchy... Are they sketchy because his "sources" just don't know the details of a solid plan that exists because they themselves aren't involved in the project or are they sketchy because no solid plan exists. Again Schrier doesn't say... he let's the reader's speculative nature take over.
Once again, at least he's telling some truth we wouldn't get through Bioware transparency (tm), if zealots don't like them, not my problem ... and if people keep wanting to accept innuendo and hints as news... not my problem. Already... based only on what he's merely hinted at (by using as widespread a range as dozens to hundreds), we have people here going on about how Anthem is taking "hundreds" of devs away from working on DA4... yadda, yadda, yadda.
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Post by samhain444 on Nov 21, 2019 16:38:33 GMT
Someone remind me.. what has Schreier actually been wrong about in the past? From what I've seen his track record is pretty good, but I haven't read all his stuff. I think I remember people mentioning some Destiny-related stuff he misfired on but I could be wrong. Ultimately, though, it's more "Jason writes stuff based on anonymous sources within the company and said company had no comment and, by them stating 'no comment', Jason must be right" as opposed "Jason was right/wrong based on a,b, and c". Some of the information is later confirmed peripherally by twitter comments. For example, when the "Anthem" article was released ex-BioWare employees like producers Blair Brown (now with Respawn), graphic artists like Nick Sadler (now with Improbable), writers like Sam Maggs (now with Insomniac) and others talked about the stressful environment and their own respective fallout as a result. Then, you have other elements of the article that specifically name devs like Preston Watamaniuk, Perrish Ley, Derek Watts, and Jonathan Warner and go into the protracted development of "Anthem's" first 5 years but, in this case, there is not really any peripheral confirmation but, because he was supported in one aspect, people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in other areas. One thing for certain, if his articles are to be believed, BioWare leaks like a sieve in terms of insider information.
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Post by tatann on Nov 21, 2019 22:13:38 GMT
Once again, at least he's telling some truth we wouldn't get through Bioware transparency (tm), if zealots don't like them, not my problem ... and if people keep wanting to accept innuendo and hints as news... not my problem. Already... based only on what he's merely hinted at (by using as widespread a range as dozens to hundreds), we have people here going on about how Anthem is taking "hundreds" of devs away from working on DA4... yadda, yadda, yadda. Oh i get it now, you're upset about DA4 ;-)
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Post by river82 on Nov 21, 2019 22:25:12 GMT
Someone remind me.. what has Schreier actually been wrong about in the past? From what I've seen his track record is pretty good, but I haven't read all his stuff. How can he be wrong... he' hedges both sides of the issue and clouds it all with ambiguity? In this article, what has he actually said beyond "Bioware hasn't abandoned Anthem?" Nothing... and Bioware announced that publicly ages ago. This is very, very incorrect. Schreier has a very solid history of revealing information stemming from before his Bioware reporting days right back to Destiny where Schreier leaked the title of the expansion along with details - www.kotaku.com.au/2015/06/leak-destinys-new-expansion-is-the-taken-king-out-september-15/Later on he leaked that Destiny would be adding microtransactions - www.kotaku.com.au/2015/10/sources-destiny-will-get-paid-cosmetic-dlc-and-free-new-quests/He was also the one who leaked Destiny 2 would be delayed - www.kotaku.com.au/2016/01/the-great-destinymalaise-of-2016/He went behind the scenes and revealed the development mess behind both Destiny and Mass Effect Andromeda. And just to show off his contacts, he published an enlightening book called Blood, Sweat, and Pixels: The Triumphant, Turbulent Stories Behind How Video Games Are MadeYou may not like what Schreier writes, but if you're not a fan of Schreier then you're not a fan of actual reporting. It's really this simple - Schreier is one of the few gaming journalists who deserves to be listened to. That being said his opinion pieces are ... not great. And he does litter his leaks with guesswork and other stuff. So at the end of the day the rule of thumb is if Schreier is leaking something he's most likely 100% correct, if Schreier is forwarding his opinion well you can safely ignore that.
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Post by river82 on Nov 21, 2019 22:54:01 GMT
Once again, at least he's telling some truth we wouldn't get through Bioware transparency (tm), if zealots don't like them, not my problem ... and if people keep wanting to accept innuendo and hints as news... not my problem. Already... based only on what he's merely hinted at (by using as widespread a range as dozens to hundreds), we have people here going on about how Anthem is taking "hundreds" of devs away from working on DA4... yadda, yadda, yadda. It's really not that big a leap of logic to get to what Schreier said. DA:4 is still in pre-production so the number of people working on that game is small, ME:5 is still early in the design phase, so what are the many, many developers (that usually get assigned to a project once production ramps up) doing? Is there a secret game in production at Bioware we don't know about? Probably they're still working on Anthem *shrugs*
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 22, 2019 0:56:18 GMT
How can he be wrong... he' hedges both sides of the issue and clouds it all with ambiguity? In this article, what has he actually said beyond "Bioware hasn't abandoned Anthem?" Nothing... and Bioware announced that publicly ages ago. This is very, very incorrect. Schreier has a very solid history of revealing information stemming from before his Bioware reporting days right back to Destiny where Schreier leaked the title of the expansion along with details - www.kotaku.com.au/2015/06/leak-destinys-new-expansion-is-the-taken-king-out-september-15/Later on he leaked that Destiny would be adding microtransactions - www.kotaku.com.au/2015/10/sources-destiny-will-get-paid-cosmetic-dlc-and-free-new-quests/He was also the one who leaked Destiny 2 would be delayed - www.kotaku.com.au/2016/01/the-great-destinymalaise-of-2016/He went behind the scenes and revealed the development mess behind both Destiny and Mass Effect Andromeda. And just to show off his contacts, he published an enlightening book called Blood, Sweat, and Pixels: The Triumphant, Turbulent Stories Behind How Video Games Are MadeYou may not like what Schreier writes, but if you're not a fan of Schreier then you're not a fan of actual reporting. It's really this simple - Schreier is one of the few gaming journalists who deserves to be listened to. That being said his opinion pieces are ... not great. And he does litter his leaks with guesswork and other stuff. So at the end of the day the rule of thumb is if Schreier is leaking something he's most likely 100% correct, if Schreier is forwarding his opinion well you can safely ignore that. Saying a person is not a fan of an individual means they are not a fan of "actual reporting" is a very large stretch. I don't like how Schreier reports on his subjects, I find any of his pieces are embellished for internet viewing and click revenue especially when it comes to how he follows up his articles. I remember how he got butthurt when people here didn't worship his pieces about Andromeda and publicly mocked us on his twitter feed without even trying to post anything directly here. He does write good pieces, but his antics undermine that and if a person has a track record of embellishment even on opinion pieces to me that isn't being a good reporter for they should be relying on the facts all the time and not trying to use sensationalism to get people's attention.
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Post by river82 on Nov 22, 2019 1:24:03 GMT
I remember how he got butthurt when people here didn't worship his pieces about Andromeda and publicly mocked us on his twitter feed without even trying to post anything directly here. Oh yeah, the salt was/is real. First the angst that was thrown around when Schreier dared to say there would be no MD:A DLC, then Schreier calling those people out publicly, then once again the angst on the forum when he was shown to be right. I believe the whole saga led to a few account deletions xD Popcorn munching worthy lol. Internet drama, you can't beat it bsn.boards.net/thread/12843/jason-right-ready-eat-crow
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 22, 2019 7:11:28 GMT
Once again, at least he's telling some truth we wouldn't get through Bioware transparency (tm), if zealots don't like them, not my problem ... and if people keep wanting to accept innuendo and hints as news... not my problem. Already... based only on what he's merely hinted at (by using as widespread a range as dozens to hundreds), we have people here going on about how Anthem is taking "hundreds" of devs away from working on DA4... yadda, yadda, yadda. My man, I empathise. Back when the previous Jason 'Our-Lord-And-Savior' Schreier "article" appeared, I tried to tell everyone multiple times that: Sure, there might be some truth to it. But not a single piece of "News" is the full 100% truth. Because of several facts: - telling the truth does not create enough hits - any article based on a source is biased at it's core, because people at their core are emotional and not rational. - independant writers need to be able to sell their articles, which doesn't happen by giving the full truth. - there's editors AFTER the writer which edit the story, so even if the writer means well, someone else will still change it - and at least one of the people from previous points is involved with the conglomerates which control all news But nobody wants to listen and think critically about such things. It's too much effort. So I stopped trying. Also, BSN (and this skepticism thread especially) WANTS to bash anthem. So they'll take any source they can get to do it. In short: Stop wasting your efforts.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 22, 2019 7:32:16 GMT
People are skeptical about leaks they don't like but will embrace those they want to be true.
The "BioWare will rework Anthem" leak is met with skepticism.
The "Mass Effect is 'warming up again'" line spawned several threads of Mass Effect 5 speculation.
Now what makes one leak better than the other? Realistically we can't know which of them has how much truth to it - we just want one of them to be more true than the other.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 11:41:21 GMT
... and if people keep wanting to accept innuendo and hints as news... not my problem. Already... based only on what he's merely hinted at (by using as widespread a range as dozens to hundreds), we have people here going on about how Anthem is taking "hundreds" of devs away from working on DA4... yadda, yadda, yadda. Oh i get it now, you're upset about DA4 ;-) No, you don'ts get it. I don't even play DA at all. Bad reporting is bad reporting. Schrier says nothing "factual" in his article that wasn't publicly announced by Bioware itself weeks before his article was written. He even says so himself in the article: "The one thing that’s for sure is that BioWare has not abandoned Anthem, despite recent breathless declarations that the game is dead." The rest of the article is innuendo and rumor from "sources" that he was unable to verify since EA would not comment on it. He uses a deliberately wide range of numbers (dozens to hundreds) in the "report" so that several scenarios can be imagined. Only one of those imagined scenarios will be correct no doubt, but since he's hedged it all ways, he will be seen as having been "right" no matter what scenario is real... and fans like you continue to eat it up like candy. It's garbage reporting, but if you don't want to see that, it's not my problem.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 12:55:50 GMT
People are skeptical about leaks they don't like but will embrace those they want to be true. The "BioWare will rework Anthem" leak is met with skepticism. The "Mass Effect is 'warming up again'" line spawned several threads of Mass Effect 5 speculation. Now what makes one leak better than the other? Realistically we can't know which of them has how much truth to it - we just want one of them to be more true than the other. The thing that got me about the "Mass Effect is Warming Back Up" article is that Casey had blogged something to the effect that they were working on Mass Effect ideas weeks before Schrier wrote his article. Casey's blog comments were met with skepticism here... Bioware just stringing us along, yadda, yadda. Then Schrier makes a comment (I think the actual article was written b by Paul Tassi for Forbes) and people start immediately speculating that the next Mass Effect is already in production, etc. Again, Schrier never really said anything that Casey hadn't already written into his blog post...and the fans ate it up like candy... and the rest of the gaming media followed suit with articles. I would say, the "source" for those articles was mostly Casey's blog post and perhaps Bioware itself even sent a Press Release draft to the various media outlets. The company's statements are met with skepticism and don't seem to get believed until Schrier passes his blessing on them. Shrug.
Schrier's comment: "“While reporting on [the Anthem story] and then in the days that followed, I learned a lot more about the current state of Dragon Age, one of BioWare’s two tentpole franchises (alongside Mass Effect, which was put on ice in 2017 following the disappointing Mass Effect: Andromeda but has since been warmed back up).”
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Post by river82 on Nov 22, 2019 13:12:52 GMT
People are skeptical about leaks they don't like but will embrace those they want to be true. The "BioWare will rework Anthem" leak is met with skepticism. The "Mass Effect is 'warming up again'" line spawned several threads of Mass Effect 5 speculation. Now what makes one leak better than the other? Realistically we can't know which of them has how much truth to it - we just want one of them to be more true than the other. It's called "confirmation bias" and just a quick glance through the thread shows it's pretty rife. People aren't looking for information, they're looking for information that supports their biases, prejudices, and wishes. On both sides, like always.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 22, 2019 13:13:09 GMT
People are skeptical about leaks they don't like but will embrace those they want to be true. The "BioWare will rework Anthem" leak is met with skepticism. The "Mass Effect is 'warming up again'" line spawned several threads of Mass Effect 5 speculation. Now what makes one leak better than the other? Realistically we can't know which of them has how much truth to it - we just want one of them to be more true than the other. To me its about where the information has come from. Now I am skeptical of anything until a product emerges, but as far as reporting goes on the subject I think the reason why there are more people believing the comments about a new Mass Effect game more then the potential changes of Anthem are two fold. The first is that the comments about Mass Effect warming up are based on comments from both Casey Hudson and Patrick Soderlund and the second is the scope of what those comments inferring. Mass Effect warming up just means the franchise isn't dead and people are talking about it. Anthem being reworked I think people are skeptical of because it could mean so many different things which we have seen in different comments here.
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