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Post by river82 on Nov 22, 2019 13:30:48 GMT
Schrier never really said anything that Casey hadn't already written into his blog post...and the fans ate it up like candy... and the rest of the gaming media followed suit with articles [/div][/quote] Even if Schreier's source was the blog post, which I doubt, gaming news is targeted at the casual gamer who don't sit on developers pages and read blog posts. And so one of their responsibilities is to act like a middle man and pass that information onto the consumer. Most gaming journalists don't do anything more than this, and they act like a glorified mouthpiece for the industry. Schreier's one of the few who goes beyond that though. Bioware fans however are still bitter over his correct Andromeda no DLC prediction
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Post by river82 on Nov 22, 2019 13:43:25 GMT
He did much the same thing when he reported about the Andromeda DLC. He hedged his "report" with a line at the end that said EA could always change their minds. [/div][/quote] Incorrect. The final line of his report was "the future for Mass effect, however, looks dismal". The titles was "Mass Effect: Andromeda will not get single player DLC". There was no hedging, it was a statement which proved to be correct. Your assertion that Schreier hedges on most of his articles is baseless. EDIT: The extent of his hedging was his claim that unless the direction of Mass Effect drastically pivots, there will be no DLC. Which was correct. That's not a hedge, that's a statement that for any other future to occur there must be drastic changes in direction. It's a statement which affirms just how set in stone the "no DLC" future was.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 22, 2019 13:44:55 GMT
Schrier never really said anything that Casey hadn't already written into his blog post...and the fans ate it up like candy... and the rest of the gaming media followed suit with articles Even if Schreier's source was the blog post, which I doubt, gaming news is targeted at the casual gamer who don't sit on developers pages and read blog posts. And so one of their responsibilities is to act like a middle man and pass that information onto the consumer. Most gaming journalists don't do anything more than this, and they act like a glorified mouthpiece for the industry. Schreier's one of the few who goes beyond that though. Bioware fans however are still bitter over his correct Andromeda no DLC prediction [/quote] For me I am not bitter over his DLC comments, I am bitter over how he reacted over the matter and his posts after the initial one. To me those were not to the same standard and unfortunately color what I read from him now.
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Post by Sondergaard on Nov 22, 2019 13:45:02 GMT
The company's statements are met with skepticism and don't seem to get believed until Schrier passes his blessing on them. Shrug. That's because Schrier is seen as far more trustworthy than Bioware. Nobody believed him last time ('we should go Batman on his ass' was one memorable line from here) and he was absolutely correct. Meanwhile, Bioware have a track record of lying to us (Anthem promo) and are showing a distressing tendency towards incompetence. I'll believe Schrier's comments over Bioware's any day of the week, even when he's simply confirming them.
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Post by river82 on Nov 22, 2019 13:53:02 GMT
For me I am not bitter over his DLC comments, I am bitter over how he reacted over the matter and his posts after the initial one. To me those were not to the same standard and unfortunately color what I read from him now. It affects how most Bioware fans read his work now. It's not wrong or anything, it just means people's critiques aren't exactly coming from positions of reason. For me the way I view it is this - both sides were pathetic. People on the BSN forums ripped apart a credible journalist's reputation solely because it didn't align with what they wanted, and Schreier paraded their stupidity over the internet. Both juvenile, both eyeroll worthy. Most people have the good sense not to rag on people using their actual names though so it's not like Schreier was actually exposing anyone ... and if he did then people shouldn't use their actual names when ragging on someone and being an utter moron on the internet lol. Good theatre though.
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Post by river82 on Nov 22, 2019 13:58:51 GMT
('we should go Batman on his ass' was one memorable line from here) Was it really? 0.0 Jesus Christ, the cringe level People behave like idiots on the internet, they really do xD
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 22, 2019 14:02:16 GMT
The company's statements are met with skepticism and don't seem to get believed until Schrier passes his blessing on them. Shrug. That's because Schrier is seen as far more trustworthy than Bioware. Nobody believed him last time ('we should go Batman on his ass' was one memorable line from here) and he was absolutely correct. Meanwhile, Bioware have a track record of lying to us (Anthem promo) and are showing a distressing tendency towards incompetence. I'll believe Schrier's comments over Bioware's any day of the week, even when he's simply confirming them. #SaveTheQuarians
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Post by river82 on Nov 22, 2019 14:09:10 GMT
That's because Schrier is seen as far more trustworthy than Bioware. Nobody believed him last time ('we should go Batman on his ass' was one memorable line from here) and he was absolutely correct. Meanwhile, Bioware have a track record of lying to us (Anthem promo) and are showing a distressing tendency towards incompetence. I'll believe Schrier's comments over Bioware's any day of the week, even when he's simply confirming them. #SaveTheQuarians Bioware: Here, have a book Gamers everywhere:
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 22, 2019 15:14:51 GMT
The company's statements are met with skepticism and don't seem to get believed until Schrier passes his blessing on them. Shrug. That's because Schrier is seen as far more trustworthy than Bioware. Nobody believed him last time ('we should go Batman on his ass' was one memorable line from here) and he was absolutely correct. Meanwhile, Bioware have a track record of lying to us (Anthem promo) and are showing a distressing tendency towards incompetence. I'll believe Schrier's comments over Bioware's any day of the week, even when he's simply confirming them. "Absolutely correct" LOL No one verfied his accounts. So you can't state that.
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Post by tatann on Nov 22, 2019 15:39:20 GMT
The company's statements are met with skepticism and don't seem to get believed until Schrier passes his blessing on them. Shrug. That's because Schrier is seen as far more trustworthy than Bioware. Nobody believed him last time ('we should go Batman on his ass' was one memorable line from here) and he was absolutely correct. Meanwhile, Bioware have a track record of lying to us (Anthem promo) and are showing a distressing tendency towards incompetence. I'll believe Schrier's comments over Bioware's any day of the week, even when he's simply confirming them. That's been my point from the beginning, but haters gonna hate
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 15:42:20 GMT
For me I am not bitter over his DLC comments, I am bitter over how he reacted over the matter and his posts after the initial one. To me those were not to the same standard and unfortunately color what I read from him now. It affects how most Bioware fans read his work now. It's not wrong or anything, it just means people's critiques aren't exactly coming from positions of reason. For me the way I view it is this - both sides were pathetic. People on the BSN forums ripped apart a credible journalist's reputation solely because it didn't align with what they wanted, and Schreier paraded their stupidity over the internet. Both juvenile, both eyeroll worthy. Most people have the good sense not to rag on people using their actual names though so it's not like Schreier was actually exposing anyone ... and if he did then people shouldn't use their actual names when ragging on someone and being an utter moron on the internet lol. Good theatre though. Schrier was ripped apart here because he ridiculed and published information cut and pasted from these boards publicly on his Twitter. That's not good journalism either.
Fans here petitioned for a DLC upon hearing that it had been cancelled... which is merely telling Bioware what they would like to see. There was nothing wrong in doing that... Yet they continue to be ridiculed here for doing so. I'm not "butthurt" about not getting EA to change it's mind. (The article by Schrier as I recall, was edited by Schrier after it released.
However, that doesn't stop people here from dismissing legitimate criticisms about Schrier writing style as other fans just being but thurt. Why do people who claim to be fans of Bioware repeatedly disbelieve Bioware itself and then immediately upon Schrier confiming what Bioware has said believe it wholeheartedly? That's silly. No reporter should be held beyond criticism to same degree that Schrier is held beyond criticism here. But go ahead... continue to lap up his writing as gospel... and that's the BEST quality you can ever expect to get.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to say... there's lots of room for Schrier himself to improve and more room even for the gaming news industry to improve as well. ... and you all can continue to bury your heads in the thought that I'm just butt hurt about Andromeda DLC. Andromeda DLC is long in the past and I'm in no way still whining about it. (Certainly not the way some here are still whining about "fixing" ME3's endings.) I still want a sequel to ME:A and a completion of that story. Whether or not I ever get it... I'm not afraid to admit that I might not. All I can do is wait to see what Bioware actually does and then decide if what they do is what I want to buy. It's the same decision for any of you because you're just consumers like me.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Nov 22, 2019 15:51:11 GMT
Jason Schrier got death threats after he broke the news that No Man's Sky was getting delayed, I can't blame him if he is no longer willing to take shit from angry fans.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 16:21:25 GMT
Jason Schrier got death threats after he broke the news that No Man's Sky was getting delayed, I can't blame him if he is no longer willing to take shit from angry fans. I'm certainly not issuing death threats here nor have i ever made such threats to Schrier or anyone else... so why even bring it into this discussion?. It has no more place here than insults about my support of a petition to get a DLC for Andromeda after it was reported that EA had canceled plans to do so... i.e. to try to convince EA to change its mind. There is nothing wrong with petitioning a company to change its mind. EA didn't change its mind. End of story.
Let's go back to where this all started on this thread:
In the article that started this thread, he himself states that the ONE certain thing he mentions is that Bioware has not abandoned Anthem. That's the ONLY fact in the article by his own admission... so I believe him. The rest is ambiguous and, therefore, non-news. It makes a difference though - Are there 24 people meeting once a week about Anthem to come up with a plan to save it or are there "hundreds" of devs in that office working diligently executing an already devised plan in order to try to save it? Jason's article doesn't say which it is or where in the middle the facts are, does it? Why? Because, as he admits in the article, he really doesn't know because EA refused to comment about it.
That's a legitimate criticism of this article. It's not news... It tells us nothing more than what Bioware had been saying for weeks prior.
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Post by samhain444 on Nov 22, 2019 16:38:56 GMT
Jason's "Pros" are he is a good writer, he cares about workers rights (a big supporter of unions for devs), and his articles are usually interesting. His "Cons" are he's a drama queen, overly sensitive to criticism and his articles largely, if not entirely, consist of anonymous sources. His interview with Aaron Flynn after Aaron left BioWare was pretty funny because Jason kept trying to steer the conversation towards "EA bad" while Aaron was like "Nah, EA has supported us and what we did, we wanted to do".
Just in the context of his BioWare articles, I highly doubt he got any of the execs or leads to provide info for his articles and he's likely depending on middle management or associate lead devs or dudes like Manveer Heir. They were people given orders to execute certain things without being provided the full dev plan or they overheard conversations between the leads in an informal setting. Lots of tapestry weaving using nuggets of legit sounding "facts" strung together with a lot of "could be, we'll see".
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Post by slimgrin727 on Nov 22, 2019 16:40:24 GMT
Jason Schrier got death threats after he broke the news that No Man's Sky was getting delayed, I can't blame him if he is no longer willing to take shit from angry fans. Find this hard to believe. Especially from a guy who loves demonizing gamers.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Nov 22, 2019 20:15:33 GMT
Jason Schrier got death threats after he broke the news that No Man's Sky was getting delayed, I can't blame him if he is no longer willing to take shit from angry fans. I'm certainly not issuing death threats here nor have i ever made such threats to Schrier or anyone else... so why even bring it into this discussion?.
I brought up the death threats incident to explain why he might get a bit testy to negative fan reaction to his reporting since some posters brought it up in this thread and other threads.
I don't understand how you got the idea I was accusing you of making death threats since I didn't quote you in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 20:32:24 GMT
I'm certainly not issuing death threats here nor have i ever made such threats to Schrier or anyone else... so why even bring it into this discussion?.
I brought up the death threats incident to explain why he might get a bit testy to negative fan reaction to his reporting since some posters brought it up in this thread and other threads.
I don't understand how you got the idea I was accusing you of making death threats since I didn't quote you in the first place. How is it relevant though? You still haven't really answered that, so I'll give you my take. Should it put him above criticism because he gets "testy" now? No. Does not bringing up any criticism of the media's articles because the reporters get "testy" improve the quality of articles we get from the gaming media in general. No.
What I want is actual news... from the devs AND from the gaming media. That's not what we're getting currently. The devs have become progressively more secretive and the news reporters have become more "testy"... which still doesn't give us actual news.
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Post by mannyray on Nov 22, 2019 21:00:48 GMT
I never really cared about this game when it was announced and yes, like most, I my mind hadn't changed after seeing the fallout. If it was FTP at the time I would have, but cold hard AAA cash? LOL hell no. I'll admit, though, since it's on EA Access, I just may give it a look post-overhaul.
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Post by river82 on Nov 22, 2019 21:27:46 GMT
Jason's "Pros" are he is a good writer, he cares about workers rights (a big supporter of unions for devs), and his articles are usually interesting. His "Cons" are he's a drama queen, overly sensitive to criticism and his articles largely, if not entirely, consist of anonymous sources. His interview with Aaron Flynn after Aaron left BioWare was pretty funny because Jason kept trying to steer the conversation towards "EA bad" while Aaron was like "Nah, EA has supported us and what we did, we wanted to do". Pretty much nailed it. People don't mind his anonymous sources because of his track record, that is I can't remember when he's ever been wrong. Because of that it's obvious he's legit and people will treat him as a legitimate leaker. So people give him a pass on that. People can't burn bridges in the industry so all you're going to get with on the record interviews are people towing the line. Anonymity is important so there's no repercussions and people are a lot freer to talk, it's the same with any industry. That being said "anonymous sources" are very easy to fake, which is why someone's history is taken into consideration here. By the time Jason made his statement on Bioware he already had a fairly lengthy history of being a "press sneak fuck" and leaking all sorts of accuracy filled articles. His attempt at trying to get Aaron Flynn to speak badly about EA on the record was never going to happen. He's not going to burn bridges to earn Jason a buck lol. Which is why anonymity is important.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Nov 22, 2019 21:34:37 GMT
I brought up the death threats incident to explain why he might get a bit testy to negative fan reaction to his reporting since some posters brought it up in this thread and other threads.
I don't understand how you got the idea I was accusing you of making death threats since I didn't quote you in the first place. How is it relevant though?
It's relevant because I have seen more than one person bring up the fact that he takes criticism personally as a reason to dismiss his reporting despite his proven track record.
Should he not react negatively to criticism? Absolutely, however since he is a journalist and not an elected official or anyone of importance I'm not losing any sleep over it.
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Post by goishen on Nov 23, 2019 5:05:33 GMT
His interview with Aaron Flynn after Aaron left BioWare was pretty funny because Jason kept trying to steer the conversation towards "EA bad" while Aaron was like "Nah, EA has supported us and what we did, we wanted to do". I hope you know what this means. That all of the blame for Andromeda lay in his lap.
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Post by samhain444 on Nov 23, 2019 5:57:53 GMT
His interview with Aaron Flynn after Aaron left BioWare was pretty funny because Jason kept trying to steer the conversation towards "EA bad" while Aaron was like "Nah, EA has supported us and what we did, we wanted to do". I hope you know what this means. That all of the blame for Andromeda lay in his lap. Okay? (Shrug)
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 23, 2019 15:37:58 GMT
Oh i get it now, you're upset about DA4 ;-) No, you don'ts get it. I don't even play DA at all. Bad reporting is bad reporting. Schrier says nothing "factual" in his article that wasn't publicly announced by Bioware itself weeks before his article was written. He even says so himself in the article: "The one thing that’s for sure is that BioWare has not abandoned Anthem, despite recent breathless declarations that the game is dead." The rest of the article is innuendo and rumor from "sources" that he was unable to verify since EA would not comment on it. He uses a deliberately wide range of numbers (dozens to hundreds) in the "report" so that several scenarios can be imagined. Only one of those imagined scenarios will be correct no doubt, but since he's hedged it all ways, he will be seen as having been "right" no matter what scenario is real... and fans like you continue to eat it up like candy. It's garbage reporting, but if you don't want to see that, it's not my problem.
Going way OT, but why don't you play DA? (Yeah, I figure I've probably asked you this before.) I don't check your hostility to using unnamed sources without confirmation from official and named sources. A lot of journalism works this way. It has to.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 23, 2019 15:41:30 GMT
His attempt at trying to get Aaron Flynn to speak badly about EA on the record was never going to happen. He's not going to burn bridges to earn Jason a buck lol. Which is why anonymity is important. Well, it can work if you find someone who's just completely done with the industry and therefore willing to burn those bridges. But yeah, I don't see any reason to think that Flynn was there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 16:41:03 GMT
No, you don'ts get it. I don't even play DA at all. Bad reporting is bad reporting. Schrier says nothing "factual" in his article that wasn't publicly announced by Bioware itself weeks before his article was written. He even says so himself in the article: "The one thing that’s for sure is that BioWare has not abandoned Anthem, despite recent breathless declarations that the game is dead." The rest of the article is innuendo and rumor from "sources" that he was unable to verify since EA would not comment on it. He uses a deliberately wide range of numbers (dozens to hundreds) in the "report" so that several scenarios can be imagined. Only one of those imagined scenarios will be correct no doubt, but since he's hedged it all ways, he will be seen as having been "right" no matter what scenario is real... and fans like you continue to eat it up like candy. It's garbage reporting, but if you don't want to see that, it's not my problem.
Going way OT, but why don't you play DA? (Yeah, I figure I've probably asked you this before.) I don't check your hostility to using unnamed sources without confirmation from official and named sources. A lot of journalism works this way. It has to. Medieval swordplay games are just not my genre of story. Some people don't like horror movies, others don't like westerns. It's nothing more than a personal preference for certain genres of story.
People widely misunderstood why I was driving at about using anonymous sources. There is nothing wrong aobut keeping the source anonymous, but making what they said ambiguous in the process is not good journalism. There are ways to keep the integrity and necessary detail in citing an anonymous source that Schrier does not do. He clouds what the source tells him in ambiguous language and, as far as I can tell, in a way that draws more wild speculation for what the source is saying... in an effort to make his articles more controversial, more sensational and get more click online. In the above article, if the sources had even a remotely good estimate of how many people are working to save anthem and whether or not there is a plan devised or whether they are merely trying to come up with plan, Schrier could have easily avoided having people speculate by just referring to "dozens" rather than expanding it to "if not hundreds." Convesely, if the source indicated to him that hundreds were working on the project, there was no need to mention "dozens." Another way is to actually quote the source without naming the source. That way, Schrier would not be inserting his own "impressions" into the statements made by a source and his articles would more accurately reflect whatever he was told.
When a journalist cites an anonymous AND couches what they said in ambiguous terms, I have less reason to believe the credibility of either the source or of Schrier's intermpretation of what was said to him. Back when the DLC thing exploded, I wasn't ever asking him to reveal his source... I was asking him to quote what the source actually said. Later, after he cut and paste comments from this board to his Twitter with the express purpose of heaping ridicule on those who made comments, I called his action "unprofessional." I could have called it much worse, but didn't. I still believe that action was unprofessional.
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