Ubisoft took advantage of Unreal Engine 2.5 and it looks advanced for PS3/Xbox 360 proves otherwise. And Inquisition and Andromeda run on Frostbite Engine, and it looks like complete pile of crap compared to Unreal Engine. So BioWare should use Unreal Engine to make things better and easier.
"Blacklist as well as Conviction utilizes the Lead-Engine, a heavily modified Unreal Engine 2.5" Shall we start quessing what that means?
[ LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI ] Waiting for ME5 - Look's like sometime in 2186, everything went to hell. We got out just ahead of it! MEA & ME1 (>>>> 3 > 2) -- DAI > DAO > DA2 -- 3500h+ & maxed out all 02/2020 in MEAMP, APEX 137001+, DAIMP (555/722/200), ANTHEM, SW BF II - Drinking tears of MP lamers since DooM & Quake in 90's softknees.bandcamp.com/ Go go go! I will destroy you! Watch out! Enemies everywhere! You must die!
Why so they can use a game engine that has a different set of problems they will be unable to get around?
Unreal isn't a perfect engine either, watching the video breakdown of Fallen Order by Digital Foundry they mention that Respawn isn't the first developer to run into I/O streaming issues causing freezing and stuttering. So do you think BioWare will be able to work around those issues or do you think they would run directly into them and have issues just like if they were using Frostbite just without two games of experience with it. Not to mention other developers at EA seem to be doing fine with Frostbite its just a BioWare issue because they don't have the tools they need to use to make their games. So that means they would have to go back and make all the tools they need for Unreal and hope they work out. Just because you read an article about "how hard Frostbite is to use" and I won't deny that, but it doesn't mean switching engines would mean that all of a sudden BioWare becomes proficient in making the tools they need to make their games.
Ubisoft took advantage of Unreal Engine 2.5 and it looks advanced for PS3/Xbox 360 proves otherwise. And Inquisition and Andromeda run on Frostbite Engine, and it looks like complete pile of crap compared to Unreal Engine. So BioWare should use Unreal Engine to make things better and easier.
So BioWare incapable of making a game look good on Frostbite, but somehow they will get their act together and make games look good on Unreal, even though when Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 were created with a version of Unreal were still people complaining about their graphical fidelity with them? Besides I don't think the games looked that bad on Frostbite, just because it might not be what you are looking for doesn't mean magically on Unreal they would be able to make games look the way you want there.
Why so they can use a game engine that has a different set of problems they will be unable to get around?
Unreal isn't a perfect engine either, watching the video breakdown of Fallen Order by Digital Foundry they mention that Respawn isn't the first developer to run into I/O streaming issues causing freezing and stuttering. So do you think BioWare will be able to work around those issues or do you think they would run directly into them and have issues just like if they were using Frostbite just without two games of experience with it. Not to mention other developers at EA seem to be doing fine with Frostbite its just a BioWare issue because they don't have the tools they need to use to make their games. So that means they would have to go back and make all the tools they need for Unreal and hope they work out. Just because you read an article about "how hard Frostbite is to use" and I won't deny that, but it doesn't mean switching engines would mean that all of a sudden BioWare becomes proficient in making the tools they need to make their games.
Ubisoft took advantage of Unreal Engine 2.5 and it looks advanced for PS3/Xbox 360 proves otherwise. And Inquisition and Andromeda run on Frostbite Engine, and it looks like complete pile of crap compared to Unreal Engine. So BioWare should use Unreal Engine to make things better and easier.
Putting aside the difficulty in using the engine, as far as visual fidelity goes, Frostbite is certainly not behind the curve. Like other major game engines, they're leveraging photogrammetry and starting to incorporate cutting-edge ray traced lighting.
For example, current Frostbite games like Battlefield V and Battlefront II leaned heavily into photogrammetry for their environments and assets (gear, weapons, etc.) and look fantastic.
Battlefield V is also starting to corporate some ray traced lighting.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Ubisoft took advantage of Unreal Engine 2.5 and it looks advanced for PS3/Xbox 360 proves otherwise. And Inquisition and Andromeda run on Frostbite Engine, and it looks like complete pile of crap compared to Unreal Engine. So BioWare should use Unreal Engine to make things better and easier.
So BioWare incapable of making a game look good on Frostbite, but somehow they will get their act together and make games look good on Unreal, even though when Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 were created with a version of Unreal were still people complaining about their graphical fidelity with them? Besides I don't think the games looked that bad on Frostbite, just because it might not be what you are looking for doesn't mean magically on Unreal they would be able to make games look the way you want there.
The engine's graphical abilities can also be improved (or hurt) by the art style of the game Dontnod used the Unreal engine for Life is Strange 1 and Life is Strange 2 and Deck Nine used the Unity engine for Life is Strange: Before the Storm and if they didn't have the Unreal and Unity engine's logos at the start of the game I doubt many fans could tell the difference between Unreal and Unity.
My personal mottoes:
1) I would rather be hated for being honest than being loved as a liar.
Ubisoft took advantage of Unreal Engine 2.5 and it looks advanced for PS3/Xbox 360 proves otherwise. And Inquisition and Andromeda run on Frostbite Engine, and it looks like complete pile of crap compared to Unreal Engine. So BioWare should use Unreal Engine to make things better and easier.
Putting aside the difficulty in using the engine, as far as visual fidelity goes, Frostbite is certainly not behind the curve. Like other major game engines, they're leveraging photogrammetry and starting to incorporate cutting-edge ray traced lighting.
For example, current Frostbite games like Battlefield V and Battlefront II leaned heavily into photogrammetry for their environments and assets (gear, weapons, etc.) and look fantastic.
Battlefield V is also starting to corporate some ray traced lighting.
Of the issues FB has, this isn't one of them.
Frostbite only functions extremely well when it comes to making FPS games, which it does very well but not for RPGs.
If it was meant for RPGs, then Andromeda and Inquisition would never looked and played like an inferior game in the first place.
I did not know that a game engine creates the games all by themselves and you wave a magic wand and you get a finished product. The only thing that I have seen that Frostbite wasn't designed for was procedural content and if a game engine must only be used for what it was designed for Unreal shouldn't be used for RPGs either. Just because some random website on the internet makes an article doesn't mean it is true.
Frostbite has worked for every other EA studio that has used it and given solid returns for those things, but then again a Football, Soccer, Racing, Freerunning game all are FPS games then as well for nobody has complained about the engine the way people have whined about BioWare using it for FIFA, Madden, Need for Speed, or Mirror's Edge. BioWare stumbled with Inquisition and Andromeda, but both games were pretty much done independently at the same time.
If your logic is right BioWare should make their next game in Unity because all the big name engines were designed around FPS games and then modified to what they need them to do.
Edit:
That article you linked is pretty much someone making an article off the well linked Kotaku article and what it says is BioWare was left to make the internal modules for the games they wanted to make just like any other EA developer out there. It has nothing to do with the engine, but what modules Dice already created. BioWare has now made those modules and constantly tweaking and improving them from game to game. Your argument should also have been that Unreal wasn't designed for RPGS because of how Mass Effect 1 ran on it.
If it was meant for RPGs, then Andromeda and Inquisition would never looked and played like an inferior game in the first place.
I did not know that a game engine creates the games all by themselves and you wave a magic wand and you get a finished product. The only thing that I have seen that Frostbite wasn't designed for was procedural content and if a game engine must only be used for what it was designed for Unreal shouldn't be used for RPGs either. Just because some random website on the internet makes an article doesn't mean it is true.
Frostbite has worked for every other EA studio that has used it and given solid returns for those things, but then again a Football, Soccer, Racing, Freerunning game all are FPS games then as well for nobody has complained about the engine the way people have whined about BioWare using it for FIFA, Madden, Need for Speed, or Mirror's Edge. BioWare stumbled with Inquisition and Andromeda, but both games were pretty much done independently at the same time.
If your logic is right BioWare should make their next game in Unity because all the big name engines were designed around FPS games and then modified to what they need them to do.
Edit:
That article you linked is pretty much someone making an article off the well linked Kotaku article and what it says is BioWare was left to make the internal modules for the games they wanted to make just like any other EA developer out there. It has nothing to do with the engine, but what modules Dice already created. BioWare has now made those modules and constantly tweaking and improving them from game to game. Your argument should also have been that Unreal wasn't designed for RPGS because of how Mass Effect 1 ran on it.
If the devs and articles confirmed that Frostbite Engine is not meant for RPGs, then it is not for RPGs. Everything else is your opinion. Besides, ME3 looks so much better when BioWare uses Unreal Engine 3 compared to Andromeda on Frostbite.
I dunno about that..... the Dragon Age team for Bioware got used to the Frostbite engine and it showed through the three DLC especially Trespasser. I mean yeah the engine was meant for FPS at first but like Sanunes said, developers for other genres managed to make Frostbite work for them.
I did not know that a game engine creates the games all by themselves and you wave a magic wand and you get a finished product. The only thing that I have seen that Frostbite wasn't designed for was procedural content and if a game engine must only be used for what it was designed for Unreal shouldn't be used for RPGs either. Just because some random website on the internet makes an article doesn't mean it is true.
Frostbite has worked for every other EA studio that has used it and given solid returns for those things, but then again a Football, Soccer, Racing, Freerunning game all are FPS games then as well for nobody has complained about the engine the way people have whined about BioWare using it for FIFA, Madden, Need for Speed, or Mirror's Edge. BioWare stumbled with Inquisition and Andromeda, but both games were pretty much done independently at the same time.
If your logic is right BioWare should make their next game in Unity because all the big name engines were designed around FPS games and then modified to what they need them to do.
Edit:
That article you linked is pretty much someone making an article off the well linked Kotaku article and what it says is BioWare was left to make the internal modules for the games they wanted to make just like any other EA developer out there. It has nothing to do with the engine, but what modules Dice already created. BioWare has now made those modules and constantly tweaking and improving them from game to game. Your argument should also have been that Unreal wasn't designed for RPGS because of how Mass Effect 1 ran on it.
If the devs and articles confirmed that Frostbite Engine is not meant for RPGs, then it is not for RPGs. Everything else is your opinion. Besides, ME3 looks so much better when BioWare uses Unreal Engine 3 compared to Andromeda on Frostbite.
A developer isn't saying that, its an author that is taking parts of what they were told there are no direct accusations against the game engine. For all we know it was the first generation of BioWare tools that were the problems those developers were experiencing their problems with. Until there is a direct quote with exact details I don't have to believe them, just like I don't have to believe a used car salesperson that tells me "trust me". We have not heard any other developer making the same accusations against Frostbite and the way games are going all those RPG elements are no longer exclusive to one genre, there is such crossover anymore the majority of systems in a RPG would be found in other games out there. The Mirror's Edge sequel is pretty close to being a RPG all on its own, but I don't see former developers saying that Frostbite wasn't meant for RPGs.
Besides it should show that BioWare has trouble developing tech on a new game engine, Unreal with Mass Effect 1 shows that it wasn't made for RPGs and it wasn't made for shooters either.
As far as your claim about what looks better that is your opinion.
If the devs and articles confirmed that Frostbite Engine is not meant for RPGs, then it is not for RPGs. Everything else is your opinion. Besides, ME3 looks so much better when BioWare uses Unreal Engine 3 compared to Andromeda on Frostbite.
I know the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but for that comparison I can only see whats missing on ME3 side. I'm not saying its looking bad but its missing so much, like 5-7 years of gfx developement in between. But that fighting scene that brought the bad memories of me3mp, every movement change has its own sweet transition/start time. Argh.
[ LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI ] Waiting for ME5 - Look's like sometime in 2186, everything went to hell. We got out just ahead of it! MEA & ME1 (>>>> 3 > 2) -- DAI > DAO > DA2 -- 3500h+ & maxed out all 02/2020 in MEAMP, APEX 137001+, DAIMP (555/722/200), ANTHEM, SW BF II - Drinking tears of MP lamers since DooM & Quake in 90's softknees.bandcamp.com/ Go go go! I will destroy you! Watch out! Enemies everywhere! You must die!
IIRC the whole Mass Effect trilogy was made with Unreal Engine 3, it's been a while since UE4 has been released and games made with it look good (for instance Jedi: Fallen Order). What's more important is that Bioware and other studios are able to make really good games in pretty short time periods when using UE and they can't do that when using Frostbite. We know it's not only because of the engine they're using, but we also know it has been an important factor.
[ LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI ] Waiting for ME5 - Look's like sometime in 2186, everything went to hell. We got out just ahead of it! MEA & ME1 (>>>> 3 > 2) -- DAI > DAO > DA2 -- 3500h+ & maxed out all 02/2020 in MEAMP, APEX 137001+, DAIMP (555/722/200), ANTHEM, SW BF II - Drinking tears of MP lamers since DooM & Quake in 90's softknees.bandcamp.com/ Go go go! I will destroy you! Watch out! Enemies everywhere! You must die!
IIRC the whole Mass Effect trilogy was made with Unreal Engine 3, it's been a while since UE4 has been released and games made with it look good (for instance Jedi: Fallen Order). What's more important is that Bioware and other studios are able to make really good games in pretty short time periods when using UE and they can't do that when using Frostbite. We know it's not only because of the engine they're using, but we also know it has been an important factor.
BioWare does more then just Mass Effect games and when they tried to add a new team to make them "fast" people ripped the game apart because it didn't feel like Mass Effect. So there are going to be downtime when they aren't developing a new Mass Effect game. In the same vein of why isn't there a Titanfall 3 game now, because they were making their Apex Legends game and Fallen Order. If you rush BioWare and just because the engine is there doesn't mean anything, you get a Dragon Age 2 and people keep saying "take as long as you need" now the argument is "you aren't going fast enough".
The other problem is that there are sacrifices in development, Fallen Order is a short game and all of BioWare's attempts on Frostbite have been massive open world games and that decreases quality and raises production times. The point can even be made the choices in development can be also what impacts what people consider quality and length of development. Things like Cal in Fallen Order would mean that we would have a set White Human Male protagonist that can only be a Vanguard. Even the stories themselves can alter the quality and time of a game's development for frankly the story in Fallen Order doesn't have the same size and scope of what is in Mass Effect because there is so much more they add to the game. Think of all the companion quests, romance quests, side quests, and other things that are done.
Think of Star Citizen shouldn't they be done now since they are not using Frostbite then? Its because of the scope of the game and how they are aiming for such a high fidelity. So the sacrifice is time. Its always going to be a selection of three things and you only get two.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Ubisoft took advantage of Unreal Engine 2.5 and it looks advanced for PS3/Xbox 360 proves otherwise. And Inquisition and Andromeda run on Frostbite Engine, and it looks like complete pile of crap compared to Unreal Engine. So BioWare should use Unreal Engine to make things better and easier.
So BioWare incapable of making a game look good on Frostbite, but somehow they will get their act together and make games look good on Unreal, even though when Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 were created with a version of Unreal were still people complaining about their graphical fidelity with them? Besides I don't think the games looked that bad on Frostbite, just because it might not be what you are looking for doesn't mean magically on Unreal they would be able to make games look the way you want there.
Yeah I must admit I always thought ME would always look good on Frostbite judgin by the type of game it is and the fact that Frostbite was moer designed with shootres in mind it was just a case of adding the RPG elements to it. I wasn' ts osure as t ohow a DA type game would work on it though given it's a moer medieval hack and slash and magic setting as Frostbite had not hada game like that on it but I think all in all DAI I think proved it can be done. I think for me part of the reason why it earned it's GOTY awards that year was the fact it proved me wrong because I did have my doubts but in th eend they were unfounded. For me Bioware and the team working on it derserve a lot of credit for what they did still do imo.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
If the devs and articles confirmed that Frostbite Engine is not meant for RPGs, then it is not for RPGs. Everything else is your opinion. Besides, ME3 looks so much better when BioWare uses Unreal Engine 3 compared to Andromeda on Frostbite.
A developer isn't saying that, its an author that is taking parts of what they were told there are no direct accusations against the game engine. For all we know it was the first generation of BioWare tools that were the problems those developers were experiencing their problems with. Until there is a direct quote with exact details I don't have to believe them, just like I don't have to believe a used car salesperson that tells me "trust me". We have not heard any other developer making the same accusations against Frostbite and the way games are going all those RPG elements are no longer exclusive to one genre, there is such crossover anymore the majority of systems in a RPG would be found in other games out there. The Mirror's Edge sequel is pretty close to being a RPG all on its own, but I don't see former developers saying that Frostbite wasn't meant for RPGs.
Besides it should show that BioWare has trouble developing tech on a new game engine, Unreal with Mass Effect 1 shows that it wasn't made for RPGs and it wasn't made for shooters either.
As far as your claim about what looks better that is your opinion.
Yea heven FIFA has been using RPG stuff lately in their games since the move to Frostbite what with The Journey story and stuff they've added to career mode in Fifa 20.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
I dunno about that..... the Dragon Age team for Bioware got used to the Frostbite engine and it showed through the three DLC especially Trespasser. I mean yeah the engine was meant for FPS at first but like Sanunes said, developers for other genres managed to make Frostbite work for them.
Wasn't the Unreal engine originally created and/or used for FPS games but but devs in a lot of different companies found ways to use it for all kind of games?
My personal mottoes:
1) I would rather be hated for being honest than being loved as a liar.
IIRC the whole Mass Effect trilogy was made with Unreal Engine 3, it's been a while since UE4 has been released and games made with it look good (for instance Jedi: Fallen Order). What's more important is that Bioware and other studios are able to make really good games in pretty short time periods when using UE and they can't do that when using Frostbite. We know it's not only because of the engine they're using, but we also know it has been an important factor.
BioWare does more then just Mass Effect games and when they tried to add a new team to make them "fast" people ripped the game apart because it didn't feel like Mass Effect. So there are going to be downtime when they aren't developing a new Mass Effect game. In the same vein of why isn't there a Titanfall 3 game now, because they were making their Apex Legends game and Fallen Order. If you rush BioWare and just because the engine is there doesn't mean anything, you get a Dragon Age 2 and people keep saying "take as long as you need" now the argument is "you aren't going fast enough".
The other problem is that there are sacrifices in development, Fallen Order is a short game and all of BioWare's attempts on Frostbite have been massive open world games and that decreases quality and raises production times. The point can even be made the choices in development can be also what impacts what people consider quality and length of development. Things like Cal in Fallen Order would mean that we would have a set White Human Male protagonist that can only be a Vanguard. Even the stories themselves can alter the quality and time of a game's development for frankly the story in Fallen Order doesn't have the same size and scope of what is in Mass Effect because there is so much more they add to the game. Think of all the companion quests, romance quests, side quests, and other things that are done.
Think of Star Citizen shouldn't they be done now since they are not using Frostbite then? Its because of the scope of the game and how they are aiming for such a high fidelity. So the sacrifice is time. Its always going to be a selection of three things and you only get two.
On average Bioware has been putting out more than 1 game a year between 1999 (BG) and 2012 (ME3), I'm not counting expansions and DLC's of course. During that time they opened/bought and closed studio's a couple of times, they always made big games with loads of story content and dialogue. Games they made with Frostbite don't have more content in comparison with many of their previous titles (especially Anthem), aren't more polished, aren't more complex in any way, but they definitely take longer to produce.
I dunno about that..... the Dragon Age team for Bioware got used to the Frostbite engine and it showed through the three DLC especially Trespasser. I mean yeah the engine was meant for FPS at first but like Sanunes said, developers for other genres managed to make Frostbite work for them.
Wasn't the Unreal engine originally created and/or used for FPS games but but devs in a lot of different companies found ways to use it for all kind of games?
So far Frostbite has been used for shooters and sports games (Need for Speed, FIFA, Madden), only Bioware made some aRPG's with it, UE has been adapted for different genres 20 years ago.
No one says that it's impossible to adapt Frostbite for different uses though, only that it's very hard and requires more time and people than other engines.
BioWare does more then just Mass Effect games and when they tried to add a new team to make them "fast" people ripped the game apart because it didn't feel like Mass Effect. So there are going to be downtime when they aren't developing a new Mass Effect game. In the same vein of why isn't there a Titanfall 3 game now, because they were making their Apex Legends game and Fallen Order. If you rush BioWare and just because the engine is there doesn't mean anything, you get a Dragon Age 2 and people keep saying "take as long as you need" now the argument is "you aren't going fast enough".
The other problem is that there are sacrifices in development, Fallen Order is a short game and all of BioWare's attempts on Frostbite have been massive open world games and that decreases quality and raises production times. The point can even be made the choices in development can be also what impacts what people consider quality and length of development. Things like Cal in Fallen Order would mean that we would have a set White Human Male protagonist that can only be a Vanguard. Even the stories themselves can alter the quality and time of a game's development for frankly the story in Fallen Order doesn't have the same size and scope of what is in Mass Effect because there is so much more they add to the game. Think of all the companion quests, romance quests, side quests, and other things that are done.
Think of Star Citizen shouldn't they be done now since they are not using Frostbite then? Its because of the scope of the game and how they are aiming for such a high fidelity. So the sacrifice is time. Its always going to be a selection of three things and you only get two.
On average Bioware has been putting out more than 1 game a year between 1999 (BG) and 2012 (ME3), I'm not counting expansions and DLC's of course. During that time they opened/bought and closed studio's a couple of times, they always made big games with loads of story content and dialogue. Games they made with Frostbite don't have more content in comparison with many of their previous titles (especially Anthem), aren't more polished, aren't more complex in any way, but they definitely take longer to produce.
Its not always complexity, but volume of content. You compared the potential development time of Fallen Order to Inquisition and Andromeda. What I was trying to say is a game that took 18 hours to complete might have a quicker turnaround time then a game that took me 80+ for a completion run and there were more systems to development (not more complex) to develop. Even just look at the crafting between the two. There wasn't any balance required for Fallen Order to make sure there wasn't the one perfect piece to get for the different lightsaber parts were all cosmetic and the armor pieces were just only three or four patterns that were recolored. Where with Mass Effect they had five or six sets of armor that had a different look and each would need to be developed and tested to prevent clipping on two different models.
I just don't think it is that easy to compare different games that aren't identical when it comes to game engines. Anthem is a different beast and I am not experienced enough with it to make any real comparisons.
Wasn't the Unreal engine originally created and/or used for FPS games but but devs in a lot of different companies found ways to use it for all kind of games?
So far Frostbite has been used for shooters and sports games (Need for Speed, FIFA, Madden), only Bioware made some aRPG's with it, UE has been adapted for different genres 20 years ago.
No one says that it's impossible to adapt Frostbite for different uses though, only that it's very hard and requires more time and people than other engines.
Only to get established. That is the problem I think BioWare ran into with Inquisition and Andromeda since it sounded like they weren't talking or sharing. Both were pretty much creating all the tools they needed from the ground up and I am pretty sure BioWare would have to create all those systems again if they were to go to Unreal for I doubt a rival developer under a different publisher would freely give out their tools they made for their games. Not to mention the training time they might need to take. Now BioWare has created a lot if not the majority of tools they need to create a game between the three releases.
Actually there are plenty of people that say Frostbite is impossible to adapt to RPGs and I still think its nothing but people thinking they know what a game engine is.
On average Bioware has been putting out more than 1 game a year between 1999 (BG) and 2012 (ME3), I'm not counting expansions and DLC's of course. During that time they opened/bought and closed studio's a couple of times, they always made big games with loads of story content and dialogue. Games they made with Frostbite don't have more content in comparison with many of their previous titles (especially Anthem), aren't more polished, aren't more complex in any way, but they definitely take longer to produce.
Its not always complexity, but volume of content. You compared the potential development time of Fallen Order to Inquisition and Andromeda. What I was trying to say is a game that took 18 hours to complete might have a quicker turnaround time then a game that took me 80+ for a completion run and there were more systems to development (not more complex) to develop. Even just look at the crafting between the two. There wasn't any balance required for Fallen Order to make sure there wasn't the one perfect piece to get for the different lightsaber parts were all cosmetic and the armor pieces were just only three or four patterns that were recolored. Where with Mass Effect they had five or six sets of armor that had a different look and each would need to be developed and tested to prevent clipping on two different models.
I just don't think it is that easy to compare different games that aren't identical when it comes to game engines. Anthem is a different beast and I am not experienced enough with it to make any real comparisons.
I said that Fallen Order looks pretty good and it was made in a very short time on UE4. I didn't compare it's other aspect with Bioware games because I haven't played it, but I did compare latest Bioware games with their previous one and DAI, MEA and especially Anthem don't have more content than many of their previous titles while still taking more time to develop. MEA's and DAI's story is of comparable lenght to every previous ME/DA game and KOTOR and Jade Empire etc. They just added more MMO like quest that make you run around and gather stuff or kill 20 mobs in some place etc. The cheapest filler there is.
So far Frostbite has been used for shooters and sports games (Need for Speed, FIFA, Madden), only Bioware made some aRPG's with it, UE has been adapted for different genres 20 years ago.
No one says that it's impossible to adapt Frostbite for different uses though, only that it's very hard and requires more time and people than other engines.
Only to get established. That is the problem I think BioWare ran into with Inquisition and Andromeda since it sounded like they weren't talking or sharing. Both were pretty much creating all the tools they needed from the ground up and I am pretty sure BioWare would have to create all those systems again if they were to go to Unreal for I doubt a rival developer under a different publisher would freely give out their tools they made for their games. Not to mention the training time they might need to take. Now BioWare has created a lot if not the majority of tools they need to create a game between the three releases.
Actually there are plenty of people that say Frostbite is impossible to adapt to RPGs and I still think its nothing but people thinking they know what a game engine is.
Well, I'm not convinced that they already have all necessary tools since apparently we're going to get next Dragon Agegame 8 years after DAI. Another thing is that even if they do have all the necessary tooling already, it still is a difficult engine to create tools for because who worked with it and voiced his opinion said as much. This will always be a problem, because whatever they created in DAI time either is or soon will be outdated, they might want to implement new features and so on.
Thing is, CD Projekt Red wants to make Cyberpunk 2077 their signature game. They have announced a delay to the end of this year .. Sep 2020. Why? Well, it's a complex game that still needs fixing and polishing, even though it's playable right now.
With Bio's last two game a disaster area, the studio needs to create a crown jewel of a game. I wonder if DA4 is it. What will it be? a traditional aRPG with limited appeal to the player base or more of a looter-shooter ? Will monetization, loot and level progression be the game's achilles' heel?
More important, is Bio, today, even capable of producing a bug free decent and fun game or will we have to slug it out again for useless loot?
Morpheus: "know what happened happened and that it could not have happened in any other way".
More important, is Bio, today, even capable of producing a bug free decent and fun game or will we have to slug it out again for useless loot?
It's unrealistic to believe the game will have absolutely no bugs. As you said, these games typically have many moving parts, and there's undoubtedly going to be bugs along the way (I expect the Frostbite audio glitch to rear its ugly head). No studio making such games have been immune from this. Really, if BioWare can just land the story, characters, RPG-design, and narrative pacing, most people will probably be satisfied with the game. As someone who is skeptical of all future Bioware titles from here on out, I'm not about to set up some high expectation of the game needing to be some crown jewel, 95+ score on metacritic. It'll just make me more disappointed than I should be and create a faux atmosphere of perfection that no studio can obtain; even ones that have developed well-made titles.
Thing is, CD Projekt Red wants to make Cyberpunk 2077 their signature game. They have announced a delay to the end of this year .. Sep 2020. Why? Well, it's a complex game that still needs fixing and polishing, even though it's playable right now.
With Bio's last two game a disaster area, the studio needs to create a crown jewel of a game. I wonder if DA4 is it. What will it be? a traditional aRPG with limited appeal to the player base or more of a looter-shooter ? Will monetization, loot and level progression be the game's achilles' heel?
More important, is Bio, today, even capable of producing a bug free decent and fun game or will we have to slug it out again for useless loot?
Until CDPR actually makes a new IP I am not sure they will have something considered their signature game, for they are taking years upon years of dedicated fandom and content and making a game out of it. They aren't making something new and trying to attract an audience to that. If CDPR was treated the same was BioWare was with delays or anything else that might not have released a perfect game they would be rushing the game out the door too. I don't see people claiming CDPR is hiding Cyberpunk or the game is complete garbage because they delayed and we as players are owed a game to be released as scheduled. [Edit] Just like I don't consider the games prior to Dragon Age or Mass Effect to be signature games for BioWare [/Edit]
You are automatically assuming that the worst trends in gaming are going to be in the game when even Anthem doesn't have them and EA has shown they are backing off. How about look at what BioWare has included in their games even their last few games and see what they have done. BioWare has made one looter-shooter game, but now every game they are going to make is going to be one. As far as I see it BioWare has never monitized the single player experience of their games even Anthem was purely cosmetics and the prior monitization was purely multiplayer based and at its time was praised as a fair way to do with with Mass Effect 3. Loot and level progression will probably be the games heel, but that has always been the problem with BioWare games. Dragon Age: Origins had a horrendous gear and skill systems.
There is no such thing as a bug free game. You should see the patch notes for The Witcher 3 I think they are on par with what BioWare did with Andromeda and they even had a save game corruption issue as well and if anything it was worse then BioWare's since if you did a manual save with Andromeda at least that save was well saved.