Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Dec 7, 2019 7:54:06 GMT
Just a thread for people to gripe about the things that Inquisition specifically changed, clarified, or otherwise retconed. I'll start with my personal three
1: The "three mage only" rule espoused by Minaeve and Dalish/Bull. The "rationale" behind this idiotic rule is that the lack of templars leaves the clan vulnerable, and that the local Andrastian population will come after them if they have too many mages in their ranks.
Rebuttal: By the lore of the Dalish (and by the truth uncovered in Trespasser) ALL elves were mages before Fen'Harel created the veil. And the Dalish ideal is to return to the days of Arlathan's full power, the height of the Elvhen Empire (nevermind how screwed over most if not all modern elves would be by this, Dalish or not). There is no such thing as "too many mages" to the Dalish, they do not believe in the necessity of Templars as watchers of mages to begin with, and one-JUST ONE- free mage in a clan's ranks is enough justification to the Andrastian power structure to warrant hunting down and eradicating said clan. They've been trying to wipe out the Dalish people since the fall of Halamshiral. So no, no way in HELL is there actually such a thing as a "Three mages only" rule.
2: Bianca's discovery that Lyrium is "alive." She claims that Blight can only infect living/organic matter, plants and animals, not minerals.
Rebuttal: How do artifacts like the Eluvians become corrupted then? Have we forgotten how the Blight works? It isn't just a living infection; it's a metaphysical corruption of the land, preventing it from being able to sustain life. Various elvhen and Tevinter artifacts have been shown to contract the Blight through breakage or exposure. That isn't to say the conclusion that Lyrium is organic material is wrong, just that the reasoning behind her discovery isn't accurate. The fact that Lyrium can regrow is proof enough, you don't need to break the lore of Blight to understand that.
3: The Iron Bull's description of "Aqun Athlok" as a positive thing among the Qunari, allowing someone to be who they feel they are (Kremicius) instead of having to conform to someone else's perception of what you "should" be.
Rebuttal: Less the idea, just Bull's explanation. Your gender in the Qun is determined by your role, not your true self. If you have the skills for a soldier but identify as female, you are not allowed this freedom: you are chemically indoctrinated to accept your place if you cannot be convinced to conform. It doesn't matter how you feel, what you want, who you believe you truly are. You obey or you die, physically or by changing who you are on such a fundamental level you cease to exist as the same person. If you are a Beresaad and were born biologically female, you have no choice but to present as a male. The Qun decides your gender, not you. It is most likely that Hissrad is bullshitting both of you in order to make the Qun seem more inclusive (to himself as much as to anyone else)
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Post by Buckeldemon on Dec 7, 2019 17:21:52 GMT
Just a thread for people to gripe about the things that Inquisition specifically changed, clarified, or otherwise retconed. I'll start with my personal three 1: The "three mage only" rule espoused by Minaeve and Dalish/Bull. The "rationale" behind this idiotic rule is that the lack of templars leaves the clan vulnerable, and that the local Andrastian population will come after them if they have too many mages in their ranks. Rebuttal: By the lore of the Dalish (and by the truth uncovered in Trespasser) ALL elves were mages before Fen'Harel created the veil. And the Dalish ideal is to return to the days of Arlathan's full power, the height of the Elvhen Empire (nevermind how screwed over most if not all modern elves would be by this, Dalish or not). There is no such thing as "too many mages" to the Dalish, they do not believe in the necessity of Templars as watchers of mages to begin with, and one-JUST ONE- free mage in a clan's ranks is enough justification to the Andrastian power structure to warrant hunting down and eradicating said clan. They've been trying to wipe out the Dalish people since the fall of Halamshiral. So no, no way in HELL is there actually such a thing as a "Three mages only" rule. What irks me about "the Minaeve story" is less that it is there, but how people handle it. As far as I'm concerned, it shows exactly one thing: that Dalish clans can be pretty different. Both Merrill and a Lavellan (mage?) Inquisitor state that their respective clans (actually two in Merrill's case) do it differently. We also have no way to inquire about Minaeve's story or verify it in any way. I don't necessarily think that she's lying intentionally, but there might be some details that are either not disclosed or remembered correctly. So I don't know why players take it as a retcon into a new "Ultimate Truth™". Just like certain in-universe characters, some players tend to measure everything to Chantry standards, probably because it confirms their bias. I guess what is going on here is that the metaphysical "Corruption™" that was assumed to be the core of the Blight by people who either did not know much about it and/or who benefitted from this vague narrative (Andrastian cults/the Chantry), is slowly more understood and debunked. If Lyrium is alive (Titan blood) and if it can be blighted (just like other living things) and we encounter magical device that are said to be blighted, my conclusion is that those things are partially made of Lyrium or contain it in some capacity. Yes. If everything, the Aqun Athlok concept might serve to reinforce the Qun's sexist tendencies. To the Qun, individual identity does not matter. One can be a warrior, sure, but not a warrior and female (or is feminine the correct word here?) at the same time. Also, Bull says that Aqun-Athloks are mocked behind their backs anyway.
I guess Bull's stance is in part influenced by his past and relation with Krem, apart from possible ramifications of a spy "going native". If I recall right, Bull saved Krem's life, even if there was no immediate gain for him and Krem grew to become Bull's trusted brother-in-arms and lieutenant, so the "Liar" might go out on his way to twist things a bit when defending his friend.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 7, 2019 18:22:18 GMT
Rebuttal: By the lore of the Dalish (and by the truth uncovered in Trespasser) ALL elves were mages before Fen'Harel created the veil. So what? The veil is still present and all elves are not, in fact, mages in the here and now. The Dalish have to live within this current reality. It doesn't matter whether they personally believe in the necessity of the templars; their lived reality is moving within human lands who do; I believe Marithari mentions this in DA2 when you ask her about moving on. Less the idea, just Bull's explanation. Again, so what? It's his perspective on the matter which is shown to be skewed: He sidesteps the question. I tended to believe it was cowardice on the part of the writers, but now I'm rethinking that. His avoidance shows that he's wavering on the subject. While pointing to Aqun-athlok is convenient and beneficial in that it allows him to rationalize fighting alongside Krem, it works out well because Krem is trans. The same is not true of women like Cassanda. I'd say that some of your issues are more in looking at certain dialogues too rigidly rather than true inconsistencies. We also have no way to inquire about Minaeve's story or verify it in any way. I don't necessarily think that she's lying intentionally, but there might be some details that are either not disclosed or remembered correctly. Plus, she was a terrified seven-year-old.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 7, 2019 18:27:51 GMT
female (or is feminine the correct word here?) at the same time No, "female" is still correct. A cis woman can identify as a woman and not be feminine. Gender identity is separate from gender expression. Some women like all of that feminine, girly-girl stuff; others do not, but they may both identify as female.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 7, 2019 18:37:22 GMT
3: The Iron Bull's description of "Aqun Athlok" as a positive thing among the Qunari, allowing someone to be who they feel they are (Kremicius) instead of having to conform to someone else's perception of what you "should" be. I think the italed is a confused way to look at this. There's no reason to think that being aqun-athlok would be treated any differently from any other status or role under the Qun. It's assigned by the tamassrans, full stop. It does seem that the tamassrans make this call based on internal gender identity rather than the shape of exterior genitalia, so in practice there won't be a contradiction between gender assignment and the subject's feelings, but we need to get the process correct if we're going to talk sensibly about Qunari society.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Quickpaw on Dec 7, 2019 18:46:08 GMT
I think the italed is a confused way to look at this. There's no reason to think that being aqun-athlok would be treated any differently from any other status or role under the Qun. It's assigned by the tamassrans, full stop. It does seem that the tamassrans make this call based on internal gender identity rather than the shape of exterior genitalia, so in practice there won't be a contradiction between gender assignment and the subject's feelings, but we need to get the process correct if we're going to talk sensibly about Qunari society. It's more that the assigning is done for you and you have no choice to accept or reject. Krem wouldn't appreciate having his gender be dictated to him, even if it's the one he would choose for himself. The removal of choice is the problem.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 7, 2019 18:58:17 GMT
3: The Iron Bull's description of "Aqun Athlok" as a positive thing among the Qunari, allowing someone to be who they feel they are (Kremicius) instead of having to conform to someone else's perception of what you "should" be. Rebuttal: Less the idea, just Bull's explanation. Your gender in the Qun is determined by your role, not your true self. If you have the skills for a soldier but identify as female, you are not allowed this freedom: you are chemically indoctrinated to accept your place if you cannot be convinced to conform. It doesn't matter how you feel, what you want, who you believe you truly are. You obey or you die, physically or by changing who you are on such a fundamental level you cease to exist as the same person. If you are a Beresaad and were born biologically female, you have no choice but to present as a male. The Qun decides your gender, not you. It is most likely that Hissrad is bullshitting both of you in order to make the Qun seem more inclusive (to himself as much as to anyone else) But! I did want to ask... from the beginning, in each chapter of the Dragon Age trilogy, we've seen a widening and more complex exploration of the Qunari culture. So first we get Sten, and then we get the Arishok in Dragon Age II (who needs to call me, by the way), and then we have of course my darling Iron Bull in Inquisition.
And it's... to me, in each case, it feels like you were presenting us with a sort of subtle expansion of our awareness of what this culture really is. And how did The Iron Bull fit into that for you guys?
It's just... he's such a paradox, I think, in some ways.
PATRICK: Well, um, because I was on a tiny bit of Origins, and then did not come back until Inquisition, while I would love to be able to say that we had a complete, coherent, master plan for how everything was going to go—um, the truth is, with each of these games, we put these things out, and we swing for the fences, and we see what people latch onto and what they're interested in, and where we can go, "Okay, that part, people didn't really respond to, so we can just sort of leave that one off by the side of the road..." Or, meanwhile, "There's this thing people really want more of, so let's do more of this."
And so from an out-of-game standpoint, the Qun in Dragon Age: Inquisition is definitely a little different from Dragon Age: Origins. I'm fairly certain that when Sten adamantly declares that the female Warden is actually male because she fights (and therefore she must be male)... Bull's perspective is rather, "I have changed what the Qun means for that."
And so the heart of that is just because Origins came out in 2010, right?
KARIN: 2009.
PATRICK: Oops, late 2009. Hey, sorry, like... dates are hard...
KARIN (snickering): It's the whole tenth anniversary thing.
PATRICK (laughing): Exactly. It's that whole tenth anniversary thing, man, yeah.
But that was definitely a big question for a lot of people, that difference between Sten's definition of the Aqun-Athlok and Bull's. Especially because it has such significance for Krem, from Inquisition.
PATRICK: So for me, what I mean on this is... Out of game? Yes, we are changing things. And part of the reason we're changing things is because we want to be more inclusive.
And another part of the reason we're changing things is because we're looking at the Qun at this point and going, "If it's literally nothing but what Sten has said, that's very limiting in the stories we can tell that involve the Qun."
KARIN: And some of it too, again, is documenting all this stuff back in Origins. David Gaider put a lot of effort into worldbuilding, years of worldbuilding. So it's like some of the building blocks are there—enough detail that we know what the world is, but not so much detail that we're written too far into any corners or anything.
So part of the fun with that, in addition to seeing what people like to do with those pieces, and seeing what interests us, is that there's still a whole huge map left—places we haven't explored yet. So in addition to the idea that obviously, there are real-world things, and real-world topics that we want to address in the games (and that changes as time passes), that can also get meshed in with "Hey, what haven't we done yet?"
PATRICK: So when I was talking earlier, just to be clear, that was the out-of-game, behind the curtain view, peeking in at the writers' room and what we're looking at in those moments... and going, "Okay, I think they need to be a little more like this."
Yes, as Karin said, we have tried to take pains not to write ourselves completely into corners. So that when we need to do things that are either a soft retcon or an addition of nuance where people had not necessarily felt there was nuance to be added, we can do things, like, we can say, "Okay, yes, Sten was telling the truth as he saw it, but Sten is a soldier. If you ask a soldier who is going off into a foreign country to explain his culture —specifically, a soldier trained from childhood to be a soldier, and taught only the things a soldier needs to know—he's going to have a very specific viewpoint."
Agreed.
But if you ask a member of the Ben-Hassrath—specifically, one tasked with anti-terrorist activity in a foreign country, and who has been trained both in deception and in understanding foreign viewpoints so that he can learn to read signals and figure out who's lying and who's secretly working for the enemy, he's going to have a far different perspective and be able to explain with more nuance. He'll be able to say, "Okay, yes, the Qun by the rules as written says this. But here's how we interpret that so we can actually live as a functional society."
That's where we're able to make changes behind the scenes and go, "Yes, the Qun in Dragon Age: Origins was a little bit monolithic, and that does kind of make them into the Borg... but if you want to have a conversation with the Borg, you need to look elsewhere, and have it with a Seven of Nine type of character.
Someone outside the Collective.
PATRICK: A character who has broken out. Because you can't have a conversation with the Borg themselves, because they're just gonna assimilate ya... So we needed to paint them with a few more shades of grey, to the Grey People, and that's where Iron Bull was able to come in and give a new perspective. And I think you can see that kind of progression with the Arishok as well. The Arishok was absolutely a true believer, but was a general, rather than a foot soldier.
Right, definitely. (Mentally: And also hotter than summer in the Forbidden Oasis...)
Patrick: And he has more of a big-picture view. And while he is not a member of the priesthood like the Ben-Hassrath, he is able to put more things into words and to discuss the philosophy a little bit more fluently than Sten was.
It worked out so seamlessly. Because, like you say, the limitations of Sten's viewpoint can be explained by his status and his place in the world, and in his understanding of his own culture. There's something very naive about Sten in a great way. And then you go on to the Arishok, who is more traveled... and it progresses wonderfully on to Bull, who is of course very comfortable anywhere in the world, it seems so... www.dumpeddrunkanddalish.com/2019/12/soft-retcons-and-krogan-valentines.html
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 7, 2019 20:11:36 GMT
It does seem that the tamassrans make this call based on internal gender identity rather than the shape of exterior genitalia Why do you think this? What does that mean for cis women like Cassandra and Avaline? The qunari waste nothing; it would be a waste to make those women into farmers or shopkeepers. Why does no one ever talk about women like Cassandra and Avaline when discussing this issue? So Krem would be happy with his assigned role in the Qun because he would be treated as the male he identifies as. Great for him. But he is not the only female-bodied person who would be inclined toward a fighter-type role. Most women in male-dominated professions still consider themselves to be women; they don't want to be treated differently from men, but neither do they want that identity erased completely. I think you are looking at the tamassran method incorrectly. To my understanding, when the person is a kid, the tamassrans analyze them and determine that they are inclined toward the role of priest, or toward the role of farmer, or fighter. It doesn't matter what that person's genitals look like or what they identify as. If they are assigned a female role, they are female. If they are assigned a male role, they are male. It works out well for Krem, and also allows the Qunari to do the mental gymnastics to get around their rigid gender roles. As far as I've read, it has nothing whatsoever to do with people being trans. By the Qunari logic, Cassandra and Avaline would be male because they fight. They are not trans. From David Gaider:
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 7, 2019 20:22:42 GMT
It's more that the assigning is done for you and you have no choice to accept or reject. Krem wouldn't appreciate having his gender be dictated to him, even if it's the one he would choose for himself. The removal of choice is the problem. I'd caution against speaking for specific characters. Some people do well under rigid militaristic structures. For all we know, a trans person might have a healthy mental relationship with their trans-ness by growing up in Qunari society because they would be recognized as their gender identity and not forced into a role that doesn't suit them. That is, a transman (like Krem) would be in the same position as the rest of his cis brothers in being assigned a fighter role. To contrast, Krem in reality had to sneak into the Tevinter military and hide.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 7, 2019 21:21:15 GMT
Why do you think this? What does that mean for cis women like Cassandra and Avaline? The qunari waste nothing; it would be a waste to make those women into farmers or shopkeepers. Why does no one ever talk about women like Cassandra and Avaline when discussing this issue? So Krem would be happy with his assigned role in the Qun because he would be treated as the male he identifies as. Great for him. But he is not the only female-bodied person who would be inclined toward a fighter-type role. Most women in male-dominated professions still consider themselves to be women; they don't want to be treated differently from men, but neither do they want that identity erased completely. I think this because it is consistent with the known evidence. And yes, Cassandra and Aveline would likely be screwed under the Qun. Bull's ducking the question for a reason. Having said that, with a data set of one it's guesswork as to how these assignments are done. I'd need to see how a biologically male female-gendered person with non-male talents was assigned. Note that your assumptions would render aqun-athlok relatively common, since talent/ biological gender role incompatibility is a lot more common than a mismatch on the other side. Wouldn't being designated as male make them trans, in our terms?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 7, 2019 21:43:52 GMT
Wouldn't being designated as male make them trans, in our terms? Bit of dangerous ground you're treading on, here. There is the literal definition of the term and then there is the figurative. Figuratively speaking, no, you cannot "make" someone transgender anymore than you can make someone any gender at all. Those women do not identify as male. Regardless of what some other person or entity says, they are [cis] women. The opposite is true as well. If the tamassrans had determined that child-Krem would have been a good priest and assigned him that female role, he would still be trans because he identifies as male, which is not in accordance with his biological sex. The term "transgender" literally means "across gender." The term "cisgender" literally means "on the same side of [your] gender". By those literal definitions, given that the tamassrans don't care what you self-identify as, yes, they would be "mak[ing]" someone transgender by assigning them a gender as which they do not identify. Assigning a female-bodied person to a male role is defacto making her male. And of course this is the whole point, as that allows them to maintain their rigid gender roles.
Qunari: Look at all our fighters. Tough buncha guys here, amiright? Non-Qunari: Um... some of them are women? Q: We don't allow women to fight.
NQ: But what about them? *points* Q: What are you talking about? I only see a bunch of men. o_O NQ: o_O
In the end, though, it all boils down to the fact that, under the Qun, there is no self-determination, there is no choice, not with one's gender, profession, or (partly) their sexual preference. It is an oppressive society, regardless of how idyllic Bull tries to paint it in some of his conversations. That the devs came up with aqun athlok for DAI perfectly conforms with the rigidity of Qunari society as has been established in other games; I see no inconsistency whatsoever.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 7, 2019 21:56:52 GMT
But as I read your hypothesis, a Qun-raised Aveline or Cassandra would have to identify as male, right?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 7, 2019 22:04:37 GMT
But as I read your hypothesis, a Qun-raised Aveline or Cassandra would have to identify as male, right? This is only true if you believe that no one under the Qun has independent thoughts and feelings. There are many parents who have tried to beat the trans-ness out of their kid, but that doesn't work. They might regurgitate what they've been told but feel something else inside. The Qunari have re-education programs for a reason; clearly not all of its citizens are happy to toe the line. Those women would just be living under the same restrictive conditions as trans people face today: having to hide their true selves in order to conform to societal standards; it just happens that they are also in a job/role that they excel in because the tamassrans read the child with accuracy.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Quickpaw on Dec 8, 2019 0:37:34 GMT
This is only true if you believe that no one under the Qun has independent thoughts and feelings. There are many parents who have tried to beat the trans-ness out of their kid, but that doesn't work. They might regurgitate what they've been told but feel something else inside. The Qunari have re-education programs for a reason; clearly not all of its citizens are happy to toe the line. Those women would just be living under the same restrictive conditions as trans people face today: having to hide their true selves in order to conform to societal standards; it just happens that they are also in a job/role that they excel in because the tamassrans read the child with accuracy. I don't think you fully grasp to what extent the Tamasraans and re-educators control people. Sure, as Solas tells us minor rebellion IS possible in terms of thought, but the SECOND your conduct strays from what you are assigned you are imprisoned, reasoned with, drugged into submission/breakage, or killed. People are not even people to the Qun; they are body parts or cells in a single entity, no more free than our lungs or nervous system. Choice to live as you desire is a big part of trans/non-cis identity. Point #3 isn't so much a gripe against lore, since Hissrad is likely fulfilling his role quite well in this instance (Liar). It's more fan perception that THIS is how the Qun behaves, which is categorically untrue. Anyway, I was also hoping to see if other people had other lore-related issues and not just rehash the ones I brought up.
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Post by sageoflife on Dec 8, 2019 0:51:39 GMT
Point 1: Solas directly states that various Dalish clans often have vastly different traditions. Based on what Merril and Lavellan say, we can safely assume that this is also true of the number of mages allowed per clan.
Point 3: Bull was explaining the Aqun-Athlok in a way that is easy for outsiders to understand. Based on what we know about the Qun, the Aqun-Athlok have no choice in their positions anymore than anyone else does. A cis woman who demonstrates an aptitude for combat would be Aqun-Athlok regardless of her own identity; see Sten's reaction to a female Hero of Fereldan. Krem would not be Aqun-Athlok if he had followed in his father's footsteps as a tailor.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 8, 2019 5:01:01 GMT
I don't think you fully grasp to what extent the Tamasraans and re-educators control people. Yes, I do, thanks. Have you never read any anecdotes by LGBTQ people who lived for decades hiding who they are? Some live(ed) 100% heteronormative lives while feeling something different inside, never acting on it in any way. I fully believe the same would be true of some under the Qun. Not everyone is going to "rebel" or betray themselves in whatever way.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 8, 2019 13:38:16 GMT
*shrugs* OK, "publicly identify as male," then.
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Post by davkar on Dec 9, 2019 10:04:28 GMT
The aqun-athlok thing feels like something Bull made up to make Krem feel better.
New topic. Tevinter. I didn't like that they are actually nice with a few bad apples. Let me just punch magic nazis.
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Post by melbella on Dec 10, 2019 3:00:18 GMT
The aqun-athlok thing feels like something Bull made up to make Krem feel better. Which would be pointless because the Chargers don't operate in qunari territory, and Krem isn't, never was, and hopefully never will be a member of the qun.
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Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Dec 10, 2019 3:55:16 GMT
The ultimate goal of the Qun is to convert all of Thedas to itself, and Bull knows this and is likely lying to himself as much as to us in order to handle what his own people intend to do to the Chargers, his family.
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Post by davkar on Dec 10, 2019 7:26:12 GMT
The aqun-athlok thing feels like something Bull made up to make Krem feel better. Which would be pointless because the Chargers don't operate in qunari territory, and Krem isn't, never was, and hopefully never will be a member of the qun. ? I mean it's not a real thing just Bull's way of saying, "hey, I like and accept you as you are. We even have special words for you (but not really)." It's like the dailsh word 'transa'genderan' which means "bearing the fruit of a different tree". (I just made this one up.) The point is in a society where goat-moms in kindergarten assign your life roles I don't believe there is an entire 'class' dedicated to a very specific situation where personal choice/feel/whatever want you call it is really important. Bull twisting, interpreting or you know, lying about a maybe-thing from his culture just to make his friend feel more welcome I think is very in-character for him.
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Post by sageoflife on Dec 10, 2019 17:59:41 GMT
Why do people think choice is involved with the Aqun-Athlok?
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Post by Catilina on Dec 11, 2019 13:16:05 GMT
That "three mage rule" is pure bullshit, has no sense in any view, seems like a Chantry propaganda. About Minaeve: I see the shocked girl, surrounded by Templars and the corpses of the hunters who accompanied her. Probably half of the image erased, and replaced with that "tale". She was shocked, and grew in the separated, highly biased Chantry environment. If some hear something for years, decades can accept as right. It's easier, especially if it makes to accept their fate.
We never heard anything similar from any elves, they always said and did the opposite. The mage children are a rare treasure, and they adopted mages. Lanaya, Feynriel for example. In DA2, the hunter push back the Templar woman arguments about the danger of magic, that "elves were used magic when your primitive ancestors still lived like beasts". Marethari said, they don't have any miraculous method to deal with Abominations, they simply kill them – but never said, they send their children to the wild, to become one... (because that would happen easily if they would – and if not anything else, then that would draw attention of the Templars).
In this case, I don't buy that "every clan behaves differently". Of course, some of them can be friendly or cautious toward the "shemlen", can be hostile but I can't imagine they would be such a dumb if it about their survival.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 12, 2019 16:05:25 GMT
The aqun-athlok thing feels like something Bull made up to make Krem feel better. New topic. Tevinter. I didn't like that they are actually nice with a few bad apples. Let me just punch magic nazis. I'd say it is pretty much in line with how Sten believed that your role and your sex have to match. And while Krem was cheered by the aqun-athlok concept, what she doesn't realize is that the Qun only acknowledges her as male because she is a warrior. To the Qunari, belief alone would not be enough. I do enjoy Tevinter having a more morally diverse population, but I also can't argue against the pleasure of punching magic nazis
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 12, 2019 16:32:54 GMT
The aqun-athlok thing feels like something Bull made up to make Krem feel better. New topic. Tevinter. I didn't like that they are actually nice with a few bad apples. Let me just punch magic nazis. I'd say it is pretty much in line with how Sten believed that your role and your sex have to match. And while Krem was cheered by the aqun-athlok concept, what she doesn't realize is that the Qun only acknowledges her as male because she is a warrior. To the Qunari, belief alone would not be enough. I do enjoy Tevinter having a more morally diverse population, but I also can't argue against the pleasure of punching magic nazis He, not she.
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